Author Topic: Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!  (Read 6627 times)

Offline jas67

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Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!
« on: August 03, 2015, 11:19:40 AM »
I'm sure that some of you know that Bramo sold their electric motorcycle business to Polaris, who are going to sell them under their Victory brand.

http://www.gizmag.com/victory-motorcycle-electric-2016-empulse-tt/38673/

This makes the formerly Bramo-branded bikes to be Victories first offering outside the cruiser segment.

Hopefully, this paves the way for offerings in other segments as well, like maybe a naked standard based on the Scout engine (think, street-legal Project 156).
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Re: Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2015, 11:46:21 AM »
Too bad the range isn't enough to go out for morning coffee. With that styling, going easy on the current probably isn't in the cards. Good starting point though, it will be interesting to see what happens when the big guns jump in.

Offline fotoguzzi

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Re: Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2015, 11:50:54 AM »
Didn't they run the Isle of Mann TT this year? They have deep pockets.
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Re: Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2015, 12:18:27 PM »
Electric eh?

We have a recharge station on the island and a couple of electric and converted cars, but I have yet to see it in operation. What happens if two cars/bikes need to recharge at the same time on a long trip?

Wait or walk? Ask the other electric vehicle owner for a lift? This will be a huge problem if electric cars/bikes become cheap and popular.


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Re: Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2015, 12:18:27 PM »

Offline rodekyll

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Re: Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2015, 12:34:04 PM »
With 54 HP, 100mph top speed, 65 mile range and 8 hours charge (stage 1* charger) or 3.5 hours (stage 2* charger) it's an idea who's time will never come.  You need to do better than 1:4 and 1:8 drive:charge, especially with a 65 mile range. 

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* Remember when "stage 1" and "stage 2" were performance mod packages?

Offline Sasquatch Jim

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Re: Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2015, 12:36:12 PM »
Just shocking.
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Offline rocker59

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Re: Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2015, 01:04:21 PM »
With 54 HP, 100mph top speed, 65 mile range and 8 hours charge (stage 1* charger) or 3.5 hours (stage 2* charger) it's an idea who's time will never come.  You need to do better than 1:4 and 1:8 drive:charge, especially with a 65 mile range. 

$0.02



Oh, electric street motorcycles will catch on with urban motorcyclists that stay in town.  People who have a short commute or mainly just ride to coffee or for light errands.  I see lots of people like that in the college town where I live.

I agree that we won't see electric motorcycles being used like most of the riders on this forum use motorcycles in our lifetimes.  Even if the range was 200 miles, or even 300 miles, the time to recharge (and availability of charging stations) just doesn't make them feasible for cross-country travel.
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Offline kirkemon

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Re: Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2015, 01:16:33 PM »
When I looked at it on the Victory site, I could find the specs.
I test rode a Zero - it was as expected; at lot of torque, quiet, heavy due to the batteries.
Apparently Victory decided not to post the weight of the Empulse.   
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Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2015, 01:26:30 PM »
What happens if two cars/bikes need to recharge at the same time on a long trip? Wait or walk? Ask the other electric vehicle owner for a lift? This will be a huge problem if electric cars/bikes become cheap and popular.

There's a lot of preliminary work being done to build the charging infrastructure.  Several years ago, I built the electromechanical part of a couple prototype charging robots for cars, which automatically find the car's receptacle and plug into it when you park near the robot.  There are companies waiting in the wings, ready to grab contracts to equip places like mall parking lots with rows of charging stations that have credit card swipers, so you just park, swipe, and charge your car while you shop.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 01:27:51 PM by Triple Jim »
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2015, 01:45:52 PM »
To charge this bike you'd have to shop for at least 4 hours.  How much stuff can you carry on it?   :laugh:


The victor is going to be the guy who gets the 'standard' for replaceable batteries.  In the future all vehicles will conform to a battery standard.  Within that standard will be 'hotswapabble' batteries.  You pull in, back up to a changing station, and some robotic thingy extracts your spent battery, checks the charge level/battery condition and swaps in a fresh one.  You get billed the difference between whatever charge is in your battery and the fresh unit.  Time should be about the same as filling up a gas tank.


Offline steven c

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Re: Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2015, 01:52:11 PM »
 Nice for a commuter except for the price. I have a 10 mile commute, suburban roads, speed limit 35 to 40, my Buell and Guzzi's are kind of overkill for the trip. E bike would work out fine.
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Re: Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2015, 02:13:59 PM »
Nice for a commuter except for the price. I have a 10 mile commute, suburban roads, speed limit 35 to 40, my Buell and Guzzi's are kind of overkill for the trip. E bike would work out fine.
For a lot less money a one cylinder dual sport machine might be just right. A bike not propelled by fire is just too gay....

Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2015, 02:18:36 PM »
To charge this bike you'd have to shop for at least 4 hours.  How much stuff can you carry on it?   :laugh:

Presumably there would be charging stations in about every parking lot, so you could charge wherever you go.  And also, it's likely your battery wouldn't be fully discharged when you get to the mall, and wouldn't have to be fully charged when you leave.

Quote
The victor is going to be the guy who gets the 'standard' for replaceable batteries.  In the future all vehicles will conform to a battery standard.  Within that standard will be 'hotswapabble' batteries.  You pull in, back up to a changing station, and some robotic thingy extracts your spent battery, checks the charge level/battery condition and swaps in a fresh one.  You get billed the difference between whatever charge is in your battery and the fresh unit.  Time should be about the same as filling up a gas tank.

I think in that case you'd be billed for the battery charge increase, as you said, plus a flat fee to maintain the batteries, since the entity doing the swapping would be responsible for taking old, failed batteries and supplying you with charged good  ones.  Like the welding gas companies swapping tanks, and if your tank had a leaky valve, the one you get has a good one, and your old one gets the valve fixed for the next guy.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 02:21:11 PM by Triple Jim »
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Offline bad Chad

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Re: Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2015, 02:19:29 PM »
With 54 HP, 100mph top speed, 65 mile range and 8 hours charge (stage 1* charger) or 3.5 hours (stage 2* charger) it's an idea who's time will never come.  You need to do better than 1:4 and 1:8 drive:charge, especially with a 65 mile range. 

$0.02

* Remember when "stage 1" and "stage 2" were performance mod packages?

Oh come now, don't be so negative.  In eco mode with throttle management the bike will go 100 miles on a charge.  For urban living that's a lot of miles, even works for most suburban living.   I live in suburbia, and 90% of my daily riding is well under 50 miles a day.  An't gonna work for touring, no doubt; but I personally don't know anybody who goes beyond 5 miles for a cup of coffee?

It's a great idea, I'd love to have one, the hold back for the masses is still the cost.  At 20 large, its just a tiny nitch bike.   When they get the price down to 10k, the market will start to blossom.   That day is likely not to far off.
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Offline moltoguzzi

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Re: Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2015, 02:27:33 PM »
The dumbest idea for a motorcycle UNTILL battery range IS at least 200 miles, whose gonna buy a motorcycle to replace a scooter at 5 to 10 times the price. The technology to make the drive train for an electric bike existed decades ago, "its the battery stupid!"

Offline jas67

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Re: Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2015, 02:31:22 PM »
When I looked at it on the Victory site, I could find the specs.
.....
Apparently Victory decided not to post the weight of the Empulse.

Victory did publish the weight (470 lbs) in the specs:
http://www.victorymotorcycles.com/en-us/electric/empulse-tt-titanium-silver-havasu-red/specs

... It's a great idea, I'd love to have one, the hold back for the masses is still the cost.  At 20 large, its just a tiny nitch bike.   When they get the price down to 10k, the market will start to blossom.   That day is likely not to far off.

The Victory Empulse is an evolution of the Bramo Empulse.    Bramo also had some lower priced models (Enertia) with a single speed transmission, which were, of course, lower in performance, but also lighter weight.   It'll be interesting to see if Victory is going to market these models too.


The dumbest idea for a motorcycle UNTILL battery range IS at least 200 miles, whose gonna buy a motorcycle to replace a scooter at 5 to 10 times the price. The technology to make the drive train for an electric bike existed decades ago, "its the battery stupid!"

I do agree with this, regarding motorcycles AND cars.

A company called Vectrix gave it a go with electric scooters for commuters, and didn't make it.   

I actually think that 100 mile range is fine for most commuters, esp. urban dwellers who use commute on scooters, but, when the price of the electric bikes is many times that of an equivalent gas-powered one, that is a tough sell.   Considering that many scooters get 70-100 MPG, that price difference will never be made up with fuel savings.   There will be some savings in maintenance costs, as electric motors don't need oil changes, valve adjusts, etc.   But, those costs are still small compared to the price of entry.

All that said, as this technology matures, the price of entry will come down.

OR -- our lovely gov't will artificially (though tax and other legislation) make the cost of petro-powered vehicles and or the fuel higher than the electrics.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 02:36:39 PM by jas67 »
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2015, 02:51:42 PM »
The bottled gas model is a good one.  I swap bottles at the local outlet.  I'm charged for the gas and some exchange fee.  There is a schedule that the tanks are tested on.  At the 'scheduled check' time (some months from the last check of one of my tanks) I'm charged for an inspection.  It might not be my original tank being inspected, but on the clock, it's my turn to be charged.

I've got no problem with that.

Offline rocker59

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Re: Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2015, 03:05:21 PM »

...the price of the electric bikes is many times that of an equivalent gas-powered one, that is a tough sell.   Considering that many scooters get 70-100 MPG, that price difference will never be made up with fuel savings.   There will be some savings in maintenance costs, as electric motors don't need oil changes, valve adjusts, etc.   But, those costs are still small compared to the price of entry.

All that said, as this technology matures, the price of entry will come down.

OR -- our lovely gov't will artificially (though tax and other legislation) make the cost of petro-powered vehicles and or the fuel higher than the electrics.

Yeah. 

Gasoline-powered cars only took over from horses once the gasoline became plentiful and cheap, and people like Ford started selling cars at prices people could afford.  Horses were a very common sight on streets and roadways into the 1930s.

Diesel-powered locomotives replaced steam once the diesel locomotives became affordable and their lower maintenance and operating costs were proven.  That was the 1940s and the transition took only a decade.

Right now, electric cars and motorcycles are about like the automobiles of the 1900-1910 era versus horses...  Interesting new technology that just can't compete with the existing modes.  Not enough power.  Not enough range.  No support infrastructure...

Electric vehicles will have to provide better performance at the same price, or offer similar performance at a cheaper price, before the masses will adopt electric vehicles for everyday use.
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Offline John Ulrich

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Re: Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2015, 03:19:08 PM »
They also sell electric bicycles. I looked at one in St. Louis...heavy with all the battery weight   

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Offline mtiberio

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Re: Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2015, 03:30:51 PM »
harley has their loss leader, why not victory?
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Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2015, 03:33:08 PM »
At the 'scheduled check' time (some months from the last check of one of my tanks) I'm charged for an inspection.  It might not be my original tank being inspected, but on the clock, it's my turn to be charged.

That's interesting.  Here in NC, and when I lived in MD, the exchange fee covers everything, including the hydrostatic tests.  Even my "customer owned" tanks are exchanged like the rented ones, and I don't pay for the tests separately.  The only time I've paid for a test is on a tank I own that they won't exchange.  I have to leave it, and come back to get it when it's filled.  If it's out of date, they charge for a hydrostatic test.  Similar procedures might well end up applying to battery exchanges.  When that happens, it'll be very interesting to see how the price of "fuel" compares to gasoline.  The commodity, electricity, is cheaper than gasoline per unit energy, but the maintenance and replacement of batteries could be more expensive than we might think.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 03:37:47 PM by Triple Jim »
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2015, 03:37:30 PM »
That's interesting.  Here in NC, and when I lived in MD, the exchange fee covers everything, including the hydrostatic tests.  Even my "customer owned" tanks are exchanged like the rented ones, and I don't pay for the tests separately.  The only time I've paid for a test is on a tank I own that they won't exchange.  I have to leave it, and come back to get it when it's filled.  If it's out of date, they charge for a hydrostatic test.  Similar procedures might well end up applying to battery exchanges.

That might be the key -- "out of date".  IIRC, that's what the guy cited when he charged me the fee.  Perhaps if I don't exchange the tank on a regular enough basis*?


*this thank was my CO2 source for 'dry air' in the darkroom.  It's used to purge oxygen from chemical containers and general dust blowing.  It gets changed ~3 years or so.

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Re: Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2015, 05:27:47 PM »
No word yet on a battery that can run on rust?

Offline fotoguzzi

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Re: Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2015, 06:44:40 PM »
Nice for a commuter except for the price. I have a 10 mile commute, suburban roads, speed limit 35 to 40, my Buell and Guzzi's are kind of overkill for the trip Same, you should get a Madass for that 10 miles commute, it's a blast.. E bike would work out fine.
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Offline Perazzimx14

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Re: Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2015, 06:49:30 PM »
When an electric bike can go 250 miles between charges, recharge in the time it takes to pump 5 gallons of gas and recharging stations are as plentiful as gas pumps then maybe they would be worth looking at.
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Re: Victory now selling a motrocycle that isn't a cruiser!
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2015, 07:13:49 PM »
Get rid of the big batteries. IF a safe electrified road grid system (cough cough zap!) and if lightweight electric slot-likemotorcycles could be made, then it might be a real viable racing industry




Will we see  a full size electric car drag race using super sonic linear electric magnetic rail guns! Blam!
« Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 07:16:44 PM by Penderic »

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