Author Topic: Clicking sound, no starting, only after long ride  (Read 1866 times)

Offline tonyduc

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Clicking sound, no starting, only after long ride
« on: August 10, 2018, 01:20:46 PM »
My 76 T3 is having a well known problem where there is a clicking sound when pressing the starter button but no starter motor turning. I’ve read Greg Bender’s page on this, but in my case it only acts up after a longer ride of +15 mins. Less than that no problem, or if the bike sits a while also no problem. Does heat effect a bad relay, solenoid or starter?

Thanks
Tony
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1996 Ducati 900ss CR
2017 Yamaha XT250
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Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: Clicking sound, no starting, only after long ride
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2018, 02:06:19 PM »
Does heat effect a bad relay, solenoid or starter?

Yes. Time for a starter rebuild or a geared starter, most likely.
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Re: Clicking sound, no starting, only after long ride
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2018, 04:37:25 PM »
Does heat effect a bad relay, solenoid or starter?

In short, the answers are YES, YES, and YES.  Time to dig in and clean all the connections.  Replace the relay.  Replace or clean the contacts in the back end of the solenoid.  Rewire the circuit for a shorter run.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Offline LowRyter

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Re: Clicking sound, no starting, only after long ride
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2018, 04:41:40 PM »
My Sport did that.  I was the Odyssey battery + hot weather (at least a new battery cured it for now).  I did get another starter for $67.
John L 
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Re: Clicking sound, no starting, only after long ride
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2018, 04:41:40 PM »

Offline bigbikerrick

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Re: Clicking sound, no starting, only after long ride
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2018, 06:49:58 PM »
I just went through the same thing with my Cali II. The Bosch starters are pretty simple and robust. You can buy the bushings and brushes to rebuild it for about 20 bucks. Like patrick said, the contacts inside the solenoid probably need to be cleaned, but once you take it apart, its best to do it all......Or replace it with a new $67. aftermarket starter if you dont want to mess with it. :laugh:
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Offline tonyduc

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Re: Clicking sound, no starting, only after long ride
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2018, 07:04:43 PM »
Thanks all for the advice. Happened again today, after leaving it alone for 3 hrs it started right up. Since I already have a relay I’ll start with that and then clean the solenoid. Even if it that seems to solve the problem I’ll still rebuild the starter
2011 Stelvio -white
1976 T3
1996 Ducati 900ss CR
2017 Yamaha XT250
1966 Ford Bronco

Former
1969 Ducati 450 SCR
1984 California II
07 Honda VFR
71 CL350
08 Ducati 848
05 Ducati M620
80 Yamaha XS650
73 Suzuki TC100

Offline n3303j

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Re: Clicking sound, no starting, only after long ride
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2018, 10:05:21 PM »
Thanks all for the advice. Happened again today, after leaving it alone for 3 hrs it started right up. Since I already have a relay I�ll start with that and then clean the solenoid. Even if it that seems to solve the problem I�ll still rebuild the starter
My '77 T3 had that exact problem. I'd  bypass the solenoid with various bits and it'd fire up and I'd be fine or an indefinite period. Went through the starter and solenoid twice. Never solved the problem. Replaced the unit with the geared one from EME. Guess it was something wrong with the Bosch unit as I haven't had the problem since. Several years problem free.
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Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Clicking sound, no starting, only after long ride
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2018, 10:32:12 PM »
I assume the click you talk about is the relay, not a clunk from the starter itself
While I agree its time for a starter overhaul why did nobody suggest Startus Interrupts, it looks like a perfect candidate to me.
Try measuring the voltage at the starter trigger terminal (spade connector), it should measure close to 12 Volts as you press the start button.
The positive feed goes up to the ignition switch and back as a Brown wire to feed 3 fuses, on an early bike like that they could be the pointy European style, they could be loose in the holder.

I couldn't find the exact schematic so picked on from the same era.
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1976_LeMans_I.gif
See how the contact of relay (23) is fed via a fuse from the ignition switch, It should be fed direct from the battery, the coil uses the original feed so the logic doesn't change.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 10:45:45 PM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline wirespokes

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Re: Clicking sound, no starting, only after long ride
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2018, 01:01:06 AM »
My 77 T3 did the exact same thing. Matteo was riding with me back from the Bay area and his solution was to kick the starter. So I turned on the ignition, held down the starter button and he kicked the starter. Not hard, just a good jolt. It cranked and started right up. My assumption is the ground wasn't the best and jolting it helps. Starters ground through the transmission mounting. I didn't know that about the fuse, but didn't touch them. I did remove the starter, went through it and cleaned it all up. Made sure all electrical connections were good - it's been working fine ever since.

Online John A

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Re: Clicking sound, no starting, only after long ride
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2018, 09:37:34 AM »
After you've either replaced or gone thru the starter, a quick and dirty way to fix the wireing is to add a relay. Wire it so the original connection to the solenoid activates the new relay which is powered directly from the battery.  An aftermarket horn or light relay, about an inch square works fine. If you are squeamish about such things, add an auto reset CB on the battery to relay line.
John
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Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Clicking sound, no starting, only after long ride
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2018, 09:49:45 AM »
My 77 T3 did the exact same thing. Matteo was riding with me back from the Bay area and his solution was to kick the starter. So I turned on the ignition, held down the starter button and he kicked the starter. Not hard, just a good jolt. It cranked and started right up. My assumption is the ground wasn't the best and jolting it helps. Starters ground through the transmission mounting. I didn't know that about the fuse, but didn't touch them. I did remove the starter, went through it and cleaned it all up. Made sure all electrical connections were good - it's been working fine ever since.
My take on this is the solenoid is just a little too weak to start moving, the kick or knock from a rock gets it in to motion, a few more Amps into the coil is the right way

After you've either replaced or gone thru the starter, a quick and dirty way to fix the wireing is to add a relay. Wire it so the original connection to the solenoid activates the new relay which is powered directly from the battery.  An aftermarket horn or light relay, about an inch square works fine. If you are squeamish about such things, add an auto reset CB on the battery to relay line.
Thats a better solution but since you are changing the wiring anyway why not just wire the original relay contacts as you would this new relay. Keep the coil powered through the ignition switch but power the contact (30) direct from the battery through a 20 Amp fuse,

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1976_LeMans_I.gif
Look at this diagram, the relay contact 30/51 is almost begging for a better supply from the battery. The brown wire there now is being choked through the ignition switch, fuse 2 and 40 year old wiring. The relay coil only draws about 0.1 Amps but the contacts feeding the solenoid would love to have 40. This high current only lasts a few milliseconds but it's vital for the solenoid to engage the starter with the ring gear, as soon as it's done that the solenoid current drops to <10 Amps.

I would still go through the starter, it will benefit from new bushes and brushes.
 
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 10:51:15 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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