V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)

[jas67]

DUDE, on the Breva, there's a small plastic cover that pops out with access to the crankshaft nut. You don't even have to remove the cover.

AND, if memory serves, I probably made marks in Sharpie on the thing to help you find TDC.

I'll have a look on the next service -- thanks.   :BEER:

[CND]

Question

Why would my Maintenance indicator message activate at 4700 miles?  I had the original break in service done at 600 miles and had an oil change done at 3000. Just replaced my rear tire (with the same Pirelli Sport Demon).

I am under the impression that my next routine service is at 6200 miles.

Just reset it myself.

EDIT

I see earlier in this thread this also happened to Kev m.

So which maintenance schedule is the appropriate one?

[Kev m]

Question

Why would my Maintenance indicator message activate at 4700 miles?  I had the original break in service done at 600 miles and had an oil change done at 3000. Just replaced my rear tire (with the same Pirelli Sport Demon).

I am under the impression that my next routine service is at 6200 miles.

Just reset it myself.

EDIT

I see earlier in this thread this also happened to Kev m.

So which maintenance schedule is the appropriate one?

I would believe the maintenance SCHEDULE as there is no reason they would go through the trouble of changing both the owner's manual and service manual if they didn't mean it.

I suspect they just either FORGOT to reprogram the dashes, or just didn't bother (cost effectiveness - "not my problem, I'm not gonna see this dash again").  ::)

[Muzz]

Question

Why would my Maintenance indicator message activate at 4700 miles?

Just turned the miles figure in to Km's and it is close to 7500 km's. Italian/Continental yadda yadda ::). Could be Luigi figured that 7500 km's was a good round figure. Have no idea how Guzzi configure their dashes. We are in km's/centigrade over here and my dash is in miles and Fahrenheit. I can find no way to change the Breva dash. It does not have a service schedule pop up on it.

[CND]

I would believe the maintenance SCHEDULE as there is no reason they would go through the trouble of changing both the owner's manual and service manual if they didn't mean it.

I suspect they just either FORGOT to reprogram the dashes, or just didn't bother (cost effectiveness - "not my problem, I'm not gonna see this dash again").  ::)

Leaning towards the forgot. Since your bike along with mine are first gen 2013 model US single TB maybe they never got around to reprograming the early models.  If so its f'ing amazing something like that would fall through the cracks.

 ???

Curious if anybody else has run into this issue. Especially those who took possession of their V7's more recently.

[Kev m]

Just turned the miles figure in to Km's and it is close to 7500 km's. Italian/Continental yadda yadda ::). Could be Luigi figured that 7500 km's was a good round figure. Have no idea how Guzzi configure their dashes. We are in km's/centigrade over here and my dash is in miles and Fahrenheit. I can find no way to change the Breva dash. It does not have a service schedule pop up on it.

Muzz, 7500 km / 4660 miles WAS the old maintenance schedule for the dual-throttle body V7Classic/Café/Racer models.

Starting with the new 1TB Stone/Special/Racer they revised the schedules significantly, including a change to a 10,000 km / 6200 miles.

See thread (I referenced earlier in this thread):

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=64986.0

specifically

Dual Throttle Body Models:



Single Throttle Body Models:

Curious if anybody else has run into this issue. Especially those who took possession of their V7's more recently.

Yes, see above thread...

[CND]

Ahhhhhh clarity!!!

And on a lighter note as I approach the 5k mileage mark man has this V7 loosened up. It just gets easier and easier to ride.

[Kev m]

Ahhhhhh clarity!!!

And on a lighter note as I approach the 5k mileage mark man has this V7 loosened up. It just gets easier and easier to ride.

AGREED!!!

Liking it more than the day I brought it home.

[nickthehoss]

thanks Kev m & jas67 for those replies- I'm feeling better about the service now... and the bike speaks for itself the way its running. What a difference after 3 years on a EX 500 (not that I don't have love for my first bike!!) Looking forward to many miles, and doing all the service-

best,

Nick

[sign216]

Interesting that Guzzi increased the miles between oil changes, from 7.5km to 10km, but decreased the miles between air filter changes (from 15km to 10km).

[Kev m]

Interesting that Guzzi increased the miles between oil changes, from 7.5km to 10km, but decreased the miles between air filter changes (from 15km to 10km).

Honestly, I ignored that (air cleaner).

Look at the gear/rear oil change intervals too.


Question, do you actually change spark plugs at EACH and EVERY service?

[sign216]

Kev,
Do the air cleaner.  It's free hp.

The new increased mileage on the final drive is too long.  When I change that fluid I can see it's degraded.  I've got a 2TB, so I'm sticking w those "old"
 specs.

And...I change the plugs More Often, mainly because I'm doing a lot of plug chops to get the fueling right.

Joe

[Kev m]

HP from a new AC after 5k miles :D talk about RCHs.

I haven't made my mind up on the gear/trans oil, but I have no good reason to doubt the OEM.

Spark plugs were wide but otherwise fine.

I think I'll buy spares and change if there's any degrade in performance.

[jas67]

Question, do you actually change spark plugs at EACH and EVERY service?

I have with my V7C, and will with my V7R.  At least on the V7C, that after about 4,000 miles on a set of plugs, it ran like crap when it (the engine, not ambient temps was cold, and that new plugs "fixed it."   And that was even with Irdidium plugs.

The new increased mileage on the final drive is too long.  When I change that fluid I can see it's degraded.  I've got a 2TB, so I'm sticking w those "old"
 specs.

When I did the first service on my V7C at around 5,000 miles (600 mile service was done by the dealer for the previous owner), the final drive oil was almost silver colored -- I'm assuming aluminum content from the case ?   :o :o

I did the second service just before 10,000 miles.   The rear drive oil was black then.    The transmission oil looked brand new both times.   I'm almost inclined to follow the new intervals for the transmission, but not the rear drive.   I'll at least do the rear drive every 10,000km along with the engine.

[Kev m]

I have with my V7C, and will with my V7R.  At least on the V7C, that after about 4,000 miles on a set of plugs, it ran like crap when it (the engine, not ambient temps was cold, and that new plugs "fixed it."   And that was even with Irdidium plugs.

See above - my plugs were surprisingly wide, but ran fine - I reinstalled them. But I'll pick up a spare set in case it starts to miss.

When I did the first service on my V7C at around 5,000 miles (600 mile service was done by the dealer for the previous owner), the final drive oil was almost silver colored -- I'm assuming aluminum content from the case ?   :o :o

I did the second service just before 10,000 miles.   The rear drive oil was black then.    The transmission oil looked brand new both times.   I'm almost inclined to follow the new intervals for the transmission, but not the rear drive.   I'll at least do the rear drive every 10,000km along with the engine.

I noticed nothing out of the ordinary with my first service, I'll probably change the fluids again soon just to see how they look, but after that I may go with the OEM 20k km recs.

[CND]

FWIW when I had the front fork springs swapped out at around 3k miles (about 6 months old) the tech who did the work for me said the original fork oil was surprisingly filthy.

[tonUPRacer]

Kev,  from your pic it looks like you went ahead and removed the EVAP can?

[Kev m]

Kev,  from your pic it looks like you went ahead and removed the EVAP can?

Nope, still there - just lost in the darkness.  :D

[GuzziKevin]

So, I have been using this thread as a rough guide for my 6,000 mile valve adjustment on my 2013 Stone. I let the dealer do the 600 mile checkup but it was a bit pricey so I'm hoping to do maintenance myself from here on out. Well, I ran into a couple of issues today I'm hoping to get some advice on.

First, regarding my mechanical abilities, I've changed oil more times than I can count on many bikes, I've installed various center stands, luggage racks, fuse blocks, etc. I've adjusted valves on my TU250 without issue. I've done a lot of reading on the forums and I think I know what needs to be done.

However, those bolts on the front cover are very tight. So tight, in fact that I broke two of them. I was very careful and turned them slowly (so I thought). Any advice on getting the other two out without breaking them? Also, there is this nagging question in the back of my mind, why didn't they break for the dealer? Is it possible that they got them out and after 4,400 miles they tightened back up so much that they won't come out without breaking? I don't want to think the dealer didn't check the valves but if they didn't remove the front cover then the only other way they could have found TDC would be to turn the rear wheel, correct? For that matter, how do they find it without markings? Do they use a straw as well?

In the meantime, I will figure out how to drill out the broken bolts and get replacements from Home Depot. And some anti-seize.

Next, I got the six bolts out to remove the valve cover but still couldn't get it off. Bear in mind, I had just broken the two bolts on the front cover so I wasn't inclined to try to force them off for fear of breaking something else. Do they stick? Can I pry them off with a screwdriver or something once the six bolts are removed?

I felt like I was so close to completing the job it's a little frustrating but I'd rather take the time to make sure I do it right.

On a positive note, it seems to run better with a new air filter, spark plugs and an oil change.

Any advice on removing the front cover bolts and valve cover would be appreciated.

[sign216]

Are you talking about the front alternator cover?  I can't believe the bolts here broke, especially on a newish bike. 

For the valve covers, after removing the bolts feel free to knock them with a piece of wood.  I'd avoid a screwdriver, as you might mar a surface. 
Be sure to have replacement gaskets on hand. 

Let me know which "front cover" you're talking about. 

[Kev m]

I assume the dealer spun the motor over using the rear wheel instead of the crankshaft nut. Either that, or yeah, they didn't check it, but let's think positively. If you're suspicious you could call or stop by and ask the tech how he aligns it to TDC during valve clearance checks.

For extracting the other bolts, I'd run it up to normal operating temp and see if you can remove them hot. I would tell you to heat JUST the bolts, but the cover is plastic and it would be too easy to melt the plastic instead of just loosening the bolt threadlock.

I have no freakin' idea why they made the bolts so fricken hard to remove. As for the valve cover yes you CAN pry, but be VERY careful that you're not prying on something too thin/fragile and not sticking something into the gasket mating surface. Also MAKE DAMN WELL SURE you're got ALL the bolts out, so that includes the one in the deep bore under the spark plug guard.

[Vasco DG]

The alternator cover and spacer are plastic and tend to get a bit soft when hot which allows the bolts to fall out. To stop this the factory started loctiting  them and yes, they can be a right bastard to get out! The reason they are still tight is probably because they have never been out. To find TDC it is much easier to get the back wheel off the ground, stick it in 5th with the plugs out and the covers off and turn the back wheel to move the crank. This is probably what the shop did or, alternatively, they didn't check the valves. In that scenario they wouldn't of re-torqued the heads either which should be done at the first service.

With the valve covers on a 2013 it will have the coated metal rocker cover gaskets. These may be a bit sticky but should pop loose if you stick a pry bar between the cover and the top fin at a pint where the top fin is well supported and lift GENTLY. If it doesn't pop loose? Stop! There must be some other issue. Be careful or you will break a fin, you have been warned. If the gasket was discarded and the cover glued on with gorilla snot, (A common bodge by retards.) great care will be needed to pry off the cover. On no account try to get something between the mating surfaces to pry.

The air filter on the single TB models is tiny but I'd have to say I'd be surprised if it needed changing at 6,000 unless you live somewhere really dusty?

Pete

[Kev m]

Are you talking about the front alternator cover?  I can't believe the bolts here broke, especially on a newish bike. 

<snip>

Let me know which "front cover" you're talking about. 

He's talking the alternator cover at the front of the motor. I don't know why, but it seems that Guzzi has started to use a ridiculously strong Loctite, or bolts that are immediately starting to galvanically corrode or something. As a matter of fact at least 2 of mine BENT while I was unthreading them, probably from the amount of force being applied to the head of the bolt at a slight angle on the ratchet during removal.

[Richard Tasmania]

Cheers. I have been looking for an hour to find the S or D timing marks to no avail. I have used a new kebab stick.
There was no lock title on the alternator cover bolts. In fact, I was surprised to find them hand tight, just nipped up.

[Kev m]

The alternator cover and spacer are plastic and tend to get a bit soft when hot which allows the bolts to fall out. To stop this the factory started loctiting  them and yes, they can be a right bastard to get out! The reason they are still tight is probably because they have never been out. To find TDC it is much easier to get the back wheel off the ground, stick it in 5th with the plugs out and the covers off and turn the back wheel to move the crank. This is probably what the shop did or, alternatively, they didn't check the valves. In that scenario they wouldn't of re-torqued the heads either which should be done at the first service.

<snip>

The air filter on the single TB models is tiny but I'd have to say I'd be surprised if it needed changing at 6,000 unless you live somewhere really dusty?

Pete

...It's like they used the high-strength/fricken heat to remove Loctite. And if they did they're freakin' morons.

I never liked spinning the back wheel to align the timing marks, it gives less control than the crankshaft, but I'm a-retentive that way.

I didn't bother with the air filter yet (or spark plugs) I'm gonna wait till the 12k.

[sign216]

To turn the engine I used a breaker bar and a socket on the alternator nut.  Instead of a chopstick use a small flashlight, and look into the sparkplug hole to watch the cyl rise and fall.

So the factory used crazy loctite to solve a problem that didn't really exist.  While other issues remain.

okay.  I'm beginning to understand Italian.

[GuzziKevin]

Thanks for the advice. I will get the engine temp up and try to remove the other two.

I paid for a valve check and I am thinking positive, hoping that I got what I paid for. It just seemed strange to me that they would spin the rear wheel. Maybe they had already broken a few bolts and so knew better than to try to remove them. :)

The air filter almost looked like new but I changed it anyway. I guess I needed a win after breaking those bolts.

It is the front alternator cover that I'm trying to remove. I was surprised they were as tight as they were as well.

I did read that I could tap the valve covers with a rubber mallet or a block of wood so I'll try that. I don't have any gaskets but will get some ordered before I attempt to remove the valve covers again.

So, I have been a long time lurker, well since about August 2013 when I got the bike. But, I hardly post anything useful so I really appreciate the quick responses. I will let you know how things turn out.

[sign216]

GKevin,
When getting new valves cover gaskets (and do get a set, you'll need them) be sure to get the new black rubber-coated steel ones.  Much better than the old paper ones.

Can anyone give us the part no. of the new gaskets?
Joe

[Vasco DG]

The single TB models will all have the newer type of gasket.

887002is RC gasket#

When you get the alternator cover bolts out just run a tap through the threads in the case to clean the crap out and then use a schnoore washer on the bolt head instead of Loctite. If you want to use Loctite? Use 243 sparingly and take the bolts out with the engine hot.

Pete

[rss29]

887002 is the part number for the gaskets. Just changed them and these are the black metal ones.