Author Topic: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz AND South Africa  (Read 109669 times)

Offline rocker59

  • Global Moderator
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 24009
  • "diplomatico di moto"
  • Location: NW Arkansas
Stelvio CARC failure in Oz AND South Africa
« on: March 30, 2015, 12:46:32 PM »
Pete,

Have you seen or heard about this one?



http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...83358&page=333

wisejangrae:

"The guy was riding with me (& 1 other on our way to Doonies place)
the bike is a 1 owner, well looked after, I think just shy of 20 000 Km
I can tell you he NOW rides a Tiger"

"The failure took place on your average major type dirt road, the type any 2wd car could travel.... not a rock in sight.
Speed certainly not excessive approx. 50 to 60 Kph.
Bike certainly not overloaded.
Bike has only ever been ridden solo.
Like some / most large ADV bikes this bike has spent 90% of it's time on sealed roads.
Yes there were some Pot Holes *just your average small ones.
The rear tyre is not damaged, nor loose pressure.
The rear rim has no dings / dents
As stated previously this is a one owner bike and has not been involved in any accident in the past.

Where the Arm failed "just happens to be straight through the middle of a 5 to 6mm hole (Factory) drilled to hold a plastic fastener"

Also fact, the resulting accident could have been much worse this could have taken place at 100 Kph on anyone of Vic's pot holed bitumen roads with a vehicle coming head on."

« Last Edit: October 23, 2015, 01:46:11 PM by oldbike54 »
Michael T.
Aux Arcs de Akansea
2004 California EV Touring II
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." - Theodore Roosevelt

Offline twhitaker

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 8323
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2015, 12:51:14 PM »
Ladies and gentlemen,
let the handwringing begin.

 :pop
'96 California 1100i 160,000 mi
'97 Centauro yellow 25,000 mi
'02 Champagne V11 LeMans 58,000 mi
MGNOC-11168
Dayton, OH

Offline Lannis

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 26507
  • Location: Central Virginia
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2015, 12:54:54 PM »
Ladies and gentlemen,
let the handwringing begin.

 :pop

I'm sure this one will be right next to the flaming BMW rear drive, to survive on the Internet forever .... !

Lannis
"Hard pounding, this, gentlemen; let's see who pounds the longest".

Offline rocker59

  • Global Moderator
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 24009
  • "diplomatico di moto"
  • Location: NW Arkansas
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2015, 12:58:54 PM »
That's why I was wondering if Pete had seen or heard about it.

Looks to me like the guy was probably riding it way outside its intended mission.

Michael T.
Aux Arcs de Akansea
2004 California EV Touring II
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." - Theodore Roosevelt

Wildguzzi.com

Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2015, 12:58:54 PM »

Offline rocker59

  • Global Moderator
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 24009
  • "diplomatico di moto"
  • Location: NW Arkansas
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2015, 01:05:07 PM »
additional discussion about it in the Stelvio threadfest at ADVrider.  Some input from some WG regulars:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=26408277#post26408277

Michael T.
Aux Arcs de Akansea
2004 California EV Touring II
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." - Theodore Roosevelt

Offline Wayne Orwig

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 13908
    • Hog Mountain weather
  • Location: Hog Mountain
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2015, 01:25:47 PM »
I'll put some JB Weld in that hole. That will put a stop to that possibility.




 :D
Scientist have discovered that people will believe anything, if you first say "Scientists have discovered...."

beetle

  • Guest
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2015, 02:34:39 PM »
Oh woe! Woe betide CARC owners. Your riding a ticking time-bomb. These CARC things are the worst designed, crappiest built, most failure-prone work of the devil ever.




Dollars to doughnuts there's a bit more to this. The week before he was probably riding down a rock covered mountain at speed. Look at the tyre, that's an off-road tyre. He goes places the dirt road and bitumen brigade don't.

Vasco DG

  • Guest
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2015, 04:11:25 PM »
Strange, because that bike is currently listed as a repairable write off on the Pickles Auction site and the description of it says that it is impact damaged due to a crash I believe?

http://www.pickles.com.au/damaged-salvage/item/-/details/C2012--Moto-Guzzi--Stelvio-1200-4V-NTX-ABS--Motorcycle/252412894



Pete
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 04:13:51 PM by Vasco DG »

Offline pyoungbl

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1980
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2015, 04:46:24 PM »
There is surprisingly little damage to the left side of the bike.  That tells me that this was not a side impact (the right side looks good too).  I can only deduce that the swingarm broke due to an impact from below, like being airborne and coming down on a big rock.  The wheel is still in good shape with no obvious deformation.  You can break darn near anything if you stress it enough.  In this case it would appear that the rider was well beyond any reasonable expectation for a 650 lb + motorcycle.  Oh, the BMW guys will be hooting about this...if only to distract from the rear drive problems they have had.

Peter Y.
Growing old ain't for sissies.

'13 V7 Special (red/white)

Offline Spuddy

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1108
  • Best Thing About A Mind Is Being Able To Change It
  • Location: Clancy, Montana
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2015, 04:50:38 PM »
'in the name of the Father, the Son and..."
'13 Stelvio NTX
'07 California Vintage
'01 W650
'00 Quota 1100ES + Ural

Offline Dick

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1192
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2015, 05:46:36 PM »
"Denial ain't just a river in Egypt"  ;D

Offline LowRyter

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 16685
  • Location: Edmond OK
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2015, 06:06:30 PM »
looks like it broke a seam. 
John L 
When life gets you down remember it's one down and the rest are up.  (1-N-23456)

Offline pyoungbl

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1980
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2015, 06:19:57 PM »
looks like it broke a seam. 

There ain't no seam at that point in the swingarm.  I have one and have looked closely...no seam.
Growing old ain't for sissies.

'13 V7 Special (red/white)

Offline lucian

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3316
  • Location: Maine, Ayuh
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2015, 07:47:25 PM »
Certainly looks like the last tour was an adventure! Maybe a carc bike shouldn't be rock hopping.

Offline jacksonracingcomau

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2359
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2015, 07:55:19 PM »
I know the bloke that wrote that (not the owner), might see him today but as in post worst hits we get here tend to be monster potholes on bitumen roads,  far better to break it slowly on a dirt road than fast on a pothole.

Like riding in the rain, dirt roads are unavoidable if you want to travel in Aus, where they were (Briagalong) is foothills of High Country, Graeme is 250 miles from home there, he would be on  graded roads, as he says 2wd car roads, not a rock in sight. I go far deeper in on the ol dunger without fear of breaking anything

Will report back if I see him but I don't doubt the story, no reason for him to make it up, he actually likes my bike and was thinking of getting a Guzzi himself.

Might be a bargain at auction, you got a spare swingingarm Pete ?
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 08:01:21 PM by jacksonracingcomau »

Vasco DG

  • Guest
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2015, 08:48:46 PM »
Swingarm here is dear as poison. Overseas? Not so much. Still questioning why if it was a failure it is listed as impact damage.

Sky not falling, nothing to see here. If there was a problem this would be commonplace. It isn't. The Stelvio has been in production since 2008. If there was a problem with the swingarm design in this application we surely would of heard about it sometime in the last seven years? Those with a pathological dislike of anything 'Modern' will of course jump on this as 'Proof' of a flawed design. S'fine, matters not a jot to me or anyone else who prefers the benefits of the 21st century.

Pete

Offline kevdog3019

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5648
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2015, 08:54:48 PM »
The jokes on Guzzi of course; I hear it now... Guzzi put the "R" in CARC in the wrong place.  :beat_horse
'86 V65 "Super" Lario
'85 Honda Nighthawk 700s
'86 V65 Lario

Offline ohiorider

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 8086
  • "You can't fight in here - this is the War Room."
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2015, 09:58:39 PM »
This old swing arm (Paralever) has been rolling down the highway for over 140,000 miles.  I suspect it might be a bit more delicate than the CARC design, however, no issues, aside from a driveshaft (u joint) that failed at 121,000 miles.  



There's several thousand Beemer single sided swingarms out there, and aside from the pic of the 'flaming' one, I haven't seen too many pics of failed units, at least not any that look like the CARC pic in this thread.  I have to agree .... the Stelvio must have hit something in its lifetime that fractured the swing arm.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 10:03:29 PM by ohiorider »
Main ride:  2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport (sold July 2020)
2012 Griso 8v SE (sold Sept '15)
Reliable standby: 1991 BMW R100GS
2014 Honda CB1100 (Traded Nov 2019)
New:  2016 Triumph T120 (Traded Dec 2021)
New:  2021 Kawasaki W800

Vasco DG

  • Guest
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2015, 10:14:14 PM »
BMW have never been able to build a gearbox, at least not in living memory.

Pete

Offline krglorioso

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1535
  • Location: Burnet County, TX
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2015, 10:46:19 PM »
Moments after reading this thread, I rushed purposefully into the garage, threw my arms around the '03 Stone Touring and whispered, "I'll never trade you in for one of those high-falutin' CARC things, no matter if they should come with hydraulic valve adjustment".

Ralph
Ralph
"You don't stop riding because you got old; you got old because you stopped riding".

2004 Moto Guzzi Breva 750
2017 Honda CB-500F
2021 Royal Enfield Interceptor 650

Offline Arizona Wayne

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6257
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2015, 11:24:52 PM »
GUILTY...until proven innocent..........a ccording to several  BMW MC owners.  ::)
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 11:27:31 PM by Arizona Wayne »

Offline Moz

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 477
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2015, 11:30:51 PM »
 :bow
The jokes on Guzzi of course; I hear it now... Guzzi put the "R" in CARC in the wrong place.  :beat_horse
;D ;D
'82 le mans iii
'08 cafe's bellagio
'20 V85TT

Offline jacksonracingcomau

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2359
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2015, 01:30:47 AM »
OK, I saw original poster, Graeme, today, not a hater, can ride a bike, he's ordered a WON-Z from me, rides in rain & dirt roads but not trail riding, doesn't break shit
I only missed the Stelvio owner by a couple of hours, they're good mates

Long story short
Bike never been dropped, owner did ride to rallies, camping gear in boxes as expected of this type of bike. Never 2-up, never overloaded (in Graeme's words, to me the damn thing's overloaded in showroom). He's not fast nor daring, very average, no mad riding at all.
Was exactly as post says, in Graeme's mirrors, suddenly wildly out of control for no obvious reason, then fell
Instantly diagnosed as broken, trucked out, only observation that crack was around P clip hole (for ABS wire ?)

To their credit local importer offered him brand new complete bike as goodwill (I'm sure a swingingarm would satisfy warranty requirements)
Badly shaken, he didn't feel he could trust one again and took money instead.
End of story


 Still questioning why if it was a failure it is listed as impact damage.

Those with a pathological dislike of anything 'Modern' will of course jump on this as 'Proof' of a flawed design. S'fine, matters not a jot to me or anyone else who prefers the benefits of the 21st century.

Pete

He fell off, must be other marks on bike
I like modern, just organised test ride on new KTM, I like to know what's state of the art, single sided shaft drive bikes are not. If I jump from old, will be for lighter not heavier

Cheap buy for someone who wants one though, I'm just left wondering why JSA didn't take it in, fix it, let fewer people know it happenned

Vasco DG

  • Guest
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2015, 01:43:29 AM »
Oh, let's guess? Probably because they and anyone else who likes post Piaggio Guzzis are either stupid or crooks?

I still don't buy it but I haven't seen the bike.

Pete

Offline jacksonracingcomau

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2359
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2015, 02:00:42 AM »
Oh, let's guess? Probably because they and anyone else who likes post Piaggio Guzzis are either stupid or crooks?

I still don't buy it but I haven't seen the bike.

Pete

I've nothing to sell, nothing for you to buy, ask at JSA
Seeing pictures & hearing first hand story enough for me
Shit happens, it did.
Deny it all you want, the earth is round & heating up.

Vasco DG

  • Guest
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2015, 02:37:43 AM »
Not denying it may of happened but there has to be a back story. The fact JSG offered a new bike or refund would, to me, indicate integrity. Of course if you are a conspiracy theorist? Well, the opportunities ares ion. Now! Where's my tinfoil hat?

Offline jacksonracingcomau

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2359
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2015, 03:20:12 AM »

Dollars to doughnuts there's a bit more to this. The week before he was probably riding down a rock covered mountain at speed. Look at the tyre, that's an off-road tyre. He goes places the dirt road and bitumen brigade don't.

Brilliant, guess you're a detective ?
At least the importer took it as it is, sometimes the innocent get a fair go.
All's well that ends well but the accusations linger on the net.
Tyres  ? FFS, they get sold by the bucketload in Australia, std equipment on 2015 KTM's road registered "Adventure bike"
I go further on std road tyres but nearly every overloaded pig of a bike has them fitted, just how it is, marketing.

beetle

  • Guest
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2015, 05:29:20 AM »
Gosh, I wish I was you. You're so clever and knowledgable. Is there anything you don't know? I doubt it.  :bow

Offline molly

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1320
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2015, 06:00:23 AM »
I hope the swingarm is returned to the factory for met. analysis. It could easy be a one off casting that had a hair line crack that eventually gave way. Whatever the cause it would be reassuring to know a complete investigation took place.
Either way it must be a very rare occurance which would not  put me off a CARC model.

Edit: I note the bike is on a auction site. From what I have said above that is not acceptable unless the true cause is known already.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 06:26:02 AM by molly »
Dave

Lincolnshire, U.K.

Griso 1100

Offline luthier

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • Posts: 930
  • Location: Northern NSW
Re: Stelvio CARC failure in Oz
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2015, 06:46:12 AM »
Shit does happen in any brand. Being such a rare occurrence does make you wonder but a bloke I know was riding his Suzuki SV650S  which he'd owned from new, never dropped, 20,000K's , well ridden but looked after, never been on dirt, when the fork headstock cracked off the frame and threw him down the road. He got nasty gravel rash but luckily it happened at slow speed.
The cops wanted to charge him with neg driving because it had to be trailered. Crazy blanket rules. But suffice to say, there are thousands of these bikes that never have any such problem, in fact it would be amazing to find one other case. You just have to be unlucky I spose.
Fractures like that carc could possibly occur from an initial scratch in the wrong spot. Being a big hollow tube with a hole drilled at that point, there might be something there, some kind of a deep scratch or score, that started the thing over a long time.
If anyone is worried they should have close inspection of their carc in this regard.
But I'll be surprised if anyone else has the same problem.
I do believe the story though and it seems wrong to make out that the owner is a bullshitter. Especially with no other evidence than the story which sounds totally plausible. All castings are not equal, we should accept this.

 

Quad Lock - The best GPS / phone mount system for your motorcycles, no damage to your cameras!!
Get a Wildguzzi discount of 10% off your order!
http://quadlock.refr.cc/luapmckeever
Advertise Here