Author Topic: The MoCo is failing merged threadfest .  (Read 17286 times)

Online Dilliw

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The MoCo is failing merged threadfest .
« on: July 18, 2017, 08:50:36 AM »
...of the pirate era?  Maybe this is why HD is once again looking at the sport bike market to increase sales:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-harley-davidson-results-idUSKBN1A3126

« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 03:17:27 PM by oldbike54 »
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Online wavedog

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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2017, 09:23:40 AM »
Ha- I thought you were quoting Dylan. Has not Harley done something like this before? Cut production, create demand, driving up the out the door cost per unit and by doing so this may increase the value of a bike on the secondary market, thus making the new bike purchase seem more attractive? I remember when there were waiting lists to purchase a new Harley. Prices on the primary (and secondary) market were high and so were dealer fees. Perhaps the economic situation driving the cut in deliveries/production is different this time?
 In Florida the Harley market is not just baby boomers. It is young men and older guys riding sportsters, young women riding big twins and everything in between. But that's just what I observe here about a half hour from Daytona and may not apply to the rest of the country.
 Interesting times we live in.

Offline screamday

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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2017, 09:33:30 AM »
...of the pirate era?  Maybe this is why HD is once again looking at the sport bike market to increase sales:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-harley-davidson-results-idUSKBN1A3126

Quote
The Milwaukee-based motorcycle maker, which had previously forecast flat to modestly down full-year shipments, said it expects to ship 241,000 to 246,000 motorcycles in 2017, compared with 262,221 a year earlier.

That's a lot of motorcycles. I think Harley's biggest mistake was getting into bed with Wall Street many years ago.
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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2017, 09:58:12 AM »
 My nephew the Harley salesman tells me that the MoCo is concerned . He bases this on the communication between the MoCo and the very large corporate dealership where he works . The dealership is getting pressure to "do something" because sales and overall market share are on the decline . Like Sears or K Mart , once a huge company begins to contract it can be tough to find equilibrium . HD rode the wave successfully for many years , but that wave may be dying on the shores of a shrinking market , and an unwillingness to look far enough into the future .

 Dusty

 PS . One thing my nephew has told me is that in his dealership sales of Motor Clothes have declined , T shirts and doo rag sales ain't what they used to be .
 

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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2017, 09:58:12 AM »

Offline John Ulrich

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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2017, 10:04:31 AM »
Perhaps the economic situation driving the cut in deliveries/production is different this time?
 In Florida the Harley market is not just baby boomers. It is young men and older guys riding sportsters, young women riding big twins and everything in between.

Yup, their clientele is diminishing.  At first you could blame the economy but it's clicking along at 2%.  The Conference Board Leading Economic Index� (LEI) for the U.S. Increased in May, Expansion in Economic Activity Will Continue Through 2017

I think HD is serious at keeping their dealer base stocked with product to sell that will attract a new audience. They are smart to think outside the box but their dealers have to accept it.

One thing I'm seeing is an increase in ladies joining the Guzzi facebook group listing recent purchases of V7's.  That's a positive for the home team!
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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2017, 10:19:12 AM »
"Harley-Geezers"....certainly never to be confused with...."Guzzi-Geezers!!" (lol)  :laugh: :grin: :wink:




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Since the joke is that Moto Guzzi..."has been going out of business since 1921"  :huh: :shocked:  HD can always sing this classic by The Doors!!  :laugh: :grin: :wink:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VScSEXRwUqQ
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 10:21:58 AM by JJ »
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Offline Two Checks

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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2017, 10:27:43 AM »
With pick ups and SUVs running 50-60k and ya gotta have 1 for the wife and 1 foy self there is no money for a 25k bike.
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Offline kidsmoke

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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2017, 10:28:17 AM »
I spoke with a shop owner over the weekend. He has a couple of brands he reps new, and does some service. Personally owns 25 bikes. A couple hogs, a bunch of Ducatis, and his main interest, personally, a dozen Moto Guzzis. All between the years 1970 and 1985.

We talked about the lack of Guzzi shops and he shared that, as a Vespa dealer at one time, Piaggio was impossible to work with, and not worth for a small businessman who wants to be able to flip his shingle to "closed" on a whim, and go for a ride. He also attends corporate functions at HD in Milwaukee as a stockholder, if I understood him correctly.

He stated that HD is basically "getting out of" New Motorcycle business, in that they no longer see their long term viability as a business developing and selling new machines, although they'll never stop. They are shifting their focus to developing riders. They've even put numbers to their goals. 20 million regular riders developed, and a timeline to boot. Forgive me I don't recall the fine points, it was the overall re-adjust that was notable, and seems appropriate.  Build demand, and provide the network to feed it. They've built the network, they've flooded the continent with machinery, now they need more competent mile munchers needing everything 2 wheeled related, parts, service, attire.

Also mentioned that n addition to Ducati, they're looking at Royal Enfield.

Also worth noting that here in Indy, I'm running into women on bikes ALL the time. In fact at that little shop, the only other rider I met was a woman, guessing approx 50ish who rolled up on a ratty G5, her newest acquisition, and has been leaving Triumph at home.

I've got a good lady friend in Chicago who's been badgering me for info on bikes and she and a girlfriend signed up to take riding classes, and she'll be looking for a bike in the fall. Wants me to keep my eyes peeled.

The culture continues to have appeal, and more and more, HD is out of the equation.

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Offline Aaron D.

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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2017, 02:24:44 PM »
Well, if they want new riders maybe they should call Elton John back for a celebration.

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Re: Is this the end?
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2017, 02:36:44 PM »
Well, if they want new riders maybe they should call Elton John back for a celebration.

Sadly...it ain't gonna help.... :laugh: :grin: :wink:



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Online chuck peterson

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HD sales drop, Bloomberg News
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2017, 02:43:18 PM »
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-18/harley-davidson-is-losing-its-cool

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Online chuck peterson

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Re: HD sales drop, Bloomberg News
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2017, 02:58:10 PM »
This also explains why the local south central ct craigslist is about 75% used hd...cheap, too...$3k can get you a nice sporty, etc on up the scale, but mostly I'm seeing them sit there a long time.
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Offline LowRyter

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Re: The MoCo is failing merged threadfest .
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2017, 04:05:06 PM »
was just reading this when I came over here.  The page was still open on the browser.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/harley-davidson-inc-hog-stock-165303854.html

Looks like Harley is learning what the Japanese learned in the 80s (and again since '08) and perhaps what Europeans might be learning soon: Growth in the motorcycle business doesn't go on forever.  The business end has to be able to cope with downturns and no growth. 

The fact that Harley hasn't diversified it's product line, perhaps couldn't to be true to it's clientele, doesn't give them a lot of flexibility.   I'd guess most of the baby boomers have had their Harleys and perhaps have one (two or three) in the garage with <5,000 miles on them.
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Re: The MoCo is failing merged threadfest .
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2017, 04:15:06 PM »
What, the LiveWire didn't save them?  Surely they have them on the floor selling like hot cakes by now?
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Offline drums4money

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Re: The MoCo is failing merged threadfest .
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2017, 05:29:34 PM »
I was considering a Harley until just now.  I noticed one of the banner ads delivered to my Wild Guzzi forum is from F.C. Kerbeck Motor Cars.  They're offering .99% financing on any new Bentley.  I might just have to drive home a new Continental GT instead of a Sportster. 
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Offline cruzziguzzi

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Re: The MoCo is failing merged threadfest .
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2017, 06:16:43 PM »
Read about this in the WSJ and really took from it less "failing" than simply being left behind by market shifts. They still do what they do better than anyone else and between changing trends and unprecedented competition, they were doomed to a "correction".

Doubtless the reason for the Ducati move.


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Offline roadscum

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Re: The MoCo is failing merged threadfest .
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2017, 06:27:00 PM »
It's not just H-D, others in the industry are in the same situation and not meeting their financials goals.  It seems to be the current trend in the industry. H-D, is the largest manufacturer of street going bikes world wide, so its understandable they  are hit the hardest. The H-D brand is highly respected around the world and they are master at marketing. This isn't the 1st time they've been in trouble, don't count them out. 



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Re: The MoCo is failing merged threadfest .
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2017, 06:42:48 PM »
It's not just H-D, others in the industry are in the same situation and not meeting their financials goals.  It seems to be the current trend in the industry. H-D, is the largest manufacturer of street going bikes world wide, so its understandable they  are hit the hardest. The H-D brand is highly respected around the world and they are master at marketing. This isn't the 1st time they've been in trouble, don't count them out. 



Paul

 Actually I believe Honda is the largest manufacturer of street bikes , and maybe Hero is number two .

 Dusty
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 06:43:42 PM by oldbike54 »

Offline LowRyter

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Re: The MoCo is failing merged threadfest .
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2017, 08:25:14 PM »
Actually I believe Honda is the largest manufacturer of street bikes , and maybe Hero is number two .

 Dusty

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« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 08:34:42 PM by LowRyter »
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Offline GearheadGrrrl

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Re: The MoCo is failing merged threadfest .
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2017, 08:45:22 PM »
HOG(NYSE) had a bike that appealed to young riders: Buell. Of course, they killed it...
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Offline Scud

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Re: The MoCo is failing merged threadfest .
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2017, 10:10:56 PM »
I'm in Milwaukee right now. Wandered over to the Harley Davidson museum - although closed, I intended to eat at the museum restaurant. But it was closed for a private party.

Got some funny looks, but no comments about my Ducati shirt.





This sign and the "ride" are right at the front door of the museum.




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And look at this statue... How about a new Harley Davidson that could fit a sand-paddle rear tire? That'd be something.



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Offline bacongrease

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Re: The MoCo is failing merged threadfest .
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2017, 11:04:42 PM »
  however,  when a dealership closes, it ain't a HD one.

Offline steven c

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Re: The MoCo is failing merged threadfest .
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2017, 08:58:10 AM »
 Maybe they should bring back the Blast. :boozing:
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Online JJ

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Re: The MoCo is failing merged threadfest .
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2017, 09:04:06 AM »
Maybe they should bring back the Blast. :boozing:

Let's all have........a "BLAST!!"  :rolleyes: :huh: :shocked: :laugh: :grin: :wink:








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Re: The MoCo is failing merged threadfest .
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2017, 10:25:44 AM »
I road a Blast, I was impressed with it.
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Re: The MoCo is failing merged threadfest .
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2017, 01:35:18 PM »
Nice Valerie had one. Like the brakes like the suspension but it had a motor only a mother could love.
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Re: The MoCo is failing merged threadfest .
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2017, 01:56:47 PM »
Harley has been cashing in on selling a 'Life Style' more than selling a motorcycle. Like all trends in fashion, entertainment, etc, the 'Life Style' trend will pass and they will just have their bikes to rely upon. Much like Triumph in the 60's, refusing to adapt to a changing market, they will find themselves left behind. It may take another 5 ~ 10 years but its will happen unless HD moves beyond the big lumbering twin.

On a related note my long time riding partner, a Goldwing man since 1976 has always secretly hankered for a HD. Unfortunately a good friend of his was just diagnosed with a degenerative neurological disease that has cut his riding days short and was forced to part with a 4 year old Road King, all decked out and in like new shape. The RK ticked all my friends boxes, all black, lots of chrome added, upgraded exhaust etc... So my buddy purchases said HD and within 1 week he tells me its for sale. I suggest he give it a decent try, keep it for a year, take it down to his winter home in Palm Springs and enjoy it. No doing, he says other than making a lot of noise it is way too underpowered after riding his Valkyrie or GL1800, too top heavy, handling is sub-par compared to the Honda's and so on. Now if a guy who's 1st bike was a new 1965 S90, been riding ever since, +20K miles per year can't adapt to a HD what's the future for them?

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Re: The MoCo is failing merged threadfest .
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2017, 02:17:03 PM »
Harley has been cashing in on selling a 'Life Style' more than selling a motorcycle. Like all trends in fashion, entertainment, etc, the 'Life Style' trend will pass and they will just have their bikes to rely upon. Much like Triumph in the 60's, refusing to adapt to a changing market, they will find themselves left behind. It may take another 5 ~ 10 years but its will happen unless HD moves beyond the big lumbering twin.

On a related note my long time riding partner, a Goldwing man since 1976 has always secretly hankered for a HD. Unfortunately a good friend of his was just diagnosed with a degenerative neurological disease that has cut his riding days short and was forced to part with a 4 year old Road King, all decked out and in like new shape. The RK ticked all my friends boxes, all black, lots of chrome added, upgraded exhaust etc... So my buddy purchases said HD and within 1 week he tells me its for sale. I suggest he give it a decent try, keep it for a year, take it down to his winter home in Palm Springs and enjoy it. No doing, he says other than making a lot of noise it is way too underpowered after riding his Valkyrie or GL1800, too top heavy, handling is sub-par compared to the Honda's and so on. Now if a guy who's 1st bike was a new 1965 S90, been riding ever since, +20K miles per year can't adapt to a HD what's the future for them?

Life style +1

I have a lot of friends who rides HD because they enjoy the lifestyle of it.

But everytime when it comes down to what they REALLY enjoy riding when it comes to performance, they ended pointing to their Ducati, Triumph, and even Honda...

All because when it comes to "looking cool" & "style point", HD def wins in a lot of spots...but we don't all just ride for the style points as we would like that OOMPH sometimes...that is when HD falls short.

Don't get me wrong, HD does make some powerful bikes and i admit they do look cool, but when compare to other makes of bike, they are basically on par for 3 or 4 times the $$$...
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Re: The MoCo is failing merged threadfest .
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2017, 05:57:38 PM »
Meh,

Canuck's friend was never really the customer, not because the number of miles he rides but because of what attracted him to a GL1800 or Valkyrie in the first place.

And the lifestyle vs. performance argument is a non-starter on this forum.

 My three Guzzis have not been any faster than equivalent model Harleys.

And even a Griso 8V is really nothing to brag about if it nothing but performance matters.

Frankly my new RK is faster than I need and it's bone stock.

Anyway there's no doubt that a shift is occurring in the market place and that Harley might do better if they diversified a bit, but I don't think the market for classics/cruisers/tourers is going away completely any time soon.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 06:07:40 PM by Kev m »
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Re: The MoCo is failing merged threadfest .
« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2017, 06:01:48 PM »
PS the money thing is BS too.

Sure you CAN spend ridiculous dosh on some top of the line models loaded with accessories.   

But equally you can buy models for similar prices to the competition if you look. Hell I just spent less on a new RK then I would have a Cali 1400.
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