V7 850 prototype sighted

[Dogwalker]

Near Mandello.

[tiger_one]

Just make a new frame piece for slightly different mounts, done!  Probably not that easy.

[jas67]

Nice!

[waxi]

What's the point? Is this engine fundamentaly different? Or we gain just 7 HP and 2 Nm?

[pete roper]

Well yes, it is fundamentally different in that it has hemispherical combustion chambers and air injection to help it be cleaner. Having just spent some time in Northern Italy I can understand the importance of E4 from first hand experience. The air quality around Milan is awful!

Pete

[leafman60]

What's the point? Is this engine fundamentaly different? Or we gain just 7 HP and 2 Nm?

That's true.

However, we must take what crumbs we can get!

Everybody pretty much expected the V9 to be worked into all the smaller bikes.

[waxi]

Well yes, it is fundamentally different in that it has hemispherical combustion chambers and air injection to help it be cleaner. Having just spent some time in Northern Italy I can understand the importance of E4 from first hand experience. The air quality around Milan is awful!

Pete

Ok, but I still don't see a point. Larger displacement would probably mean slightly larger fuel consumption and weight gain with no obvious result. But yeah,I agree, we are moving forward.

[Dogwalker]

What's the point? Is this engine fundamentaly different? Or we gain just 7 HP and 2 Nm?

it's needed to pass from this



to this



(disclaimer: what counts in the charts above is the V7-V9 / Street Twin comparison, not the raw numbers. The chart above measures HP at the rear wheel, the one below, PS at the crankshaft)

[Pisano]

The guy riding the bike has the same protective gear as the spy shots of the early V9 prototypes.

[rocker59]

Ok, but I still don't see a point. 

Euro emissions is the main point.

 

[bad Chad]

As Dogwalker pointed out.  The v9 may only be rated as having 7 more hp at the crank, but rear wheel hp has shown the spread to be more significant.

v7s are putting down around 40hp to the road give or take.  Current v9s are putting down 50/51 hp to the road.  A real world gain of 10/11 hp and bit more torque is pretty serious in a sub 450lb bike!

[pikipiki]

Judging from the exhaust it's an early prototype, although let's not get too excited the bike may even predate the v9 - it could just be the original test bed for the V9 engine, guy just took I out for a spin? but sure they have to start thinking about other bikes with the V9 engine.....

Oh Luigi, while your thinking about it how about a slightly steeper head angle than the Robber Boamer duo.

[jas67]

Euro emissions is the main point.

^^^^^^^ THIS.

The current V7 engine will likely not meet Euro 4 or higher, and, like the 1200 is at the end of it's production life.

The Hemi-head V9 motor is the way forward, and I think that is a good thing.

[pete roper]

^^^^^^^ THIS.

The current V7 engine will likely not meet Euro 4 or higher, and, like the 1200 is at the end of it's production life.

The Hemi-head V9 motor is the way forward, and I think that is a good thing.

The Hemi head V9 had better be a step gap or they're stuffed.

[waxi]

it's needed to pass from this



to this



(disclaimer: what counts in the charts above is the V7-V9 / Street Twin comparison, not the raw numbers. The chart above measures HP at the rear wheel, the one below, PS at the crankshaft)

Well, this I didn't know Don't get me wrong... I am very happy that something new was developed but I'm just confused why new engine is still relatively underpowered in relation to the competition...

[pete roper]

It might still be *underpowered* but I think there is some plan afoot for smallblock development.

Look at the head casting. 

[Testarossa]

V9 is still air cooled. I believe all the competitive bikes on the dyno chart are liquid cooled. Makes a difference.

[pete roper]

Guzzis have never been 'Competitive'! At least not on a spec sheet.

[Pisano]

The Hemi head V9 had better be a step gap or they're stuffed.

Pete, educate me.  What is a step gap? is that where the valves have no chance of hitting the piston?

Also, for a guy who's only looked at the heads to do valve clearances...I'm not sure what are you referring to when your showing the exploded view?  is there more room for more valves?

[rocker59]

Pete, educate me.  What is a step gap? 

"Stop Gap".  As in this half-assed upgrade of the small block better be a short-term fix while a newer/bigger/better/stronger/more modern replacement for the small block is developed.

[Pisano]

got it

[Huzo]

Being that it's predecessor was called a V7, will this be the new Guzzi V8 ????

[Shorty]

I'm sure the 883 Sportsters are quaking in their boots in fear of this new beast........

[Moto]

I'm sure the 883 Sportsters are quaking in their boots in fear of this new beast........

Look more carefully. The Guzzi V9 matches the Triumph all the way up until the last 1500 rpm, where it beats it soundly. If the Guzzi also weighs less, as I suspect, its performance advantage should be obvious to the seat of the pants.

This is a far cry from the V7, and should be a cause for celebration.

Thanks, Dogwalker.

Moto

[Phang]

Also, for a guy who's only looked at the heads to do valve clearances...I'm not sure what are you referring to when your showing the exploded view?  is there more room for more valves?

the center portion of the head suggesting a centrally placed spark plug in the future?

[Ion66]

"Stop Gap".  As in this half-assed upgrade of the small block better be a short-term fix while a newer/bigger/better/stronger/more modern replacement for the small block is developed.

It's making around the same power as its closest likely rival, the Triumph Street Twin, which makes 54ish horses. For the new/casual/cruising market, that's pretty standard, and decent power. Sure, the Suzuki SV650 or Kawi Er6 make 65-70, but those are water-cooled, 4 valve twins. Honda already made the CX500/650, and we know what a water-cooled small block motor would essentially look like. The retro market still wants a traditional looking, air-cooled engine. Guzzi are competing with the Sportster, and Triumph twins. In that group, the new engine should be in the ballpark. Heck, my 1200 Breva barely makes more horsepower than an SV650. Peak power is not the point of that bike.

The new motor is a huge update of the old, Heron head (combustion chamber cast into the piston) design. The V-7 series is simple, and built to a price. That's its market.

[Penderic]

How about a Desmo moto version. I want a 500cc hemi head hi reving desmo Guzzi engine. Would freak out the Ducati guys!

 

[fossil]

What's the point? Is this engine fundamentaly different? Or we gain just 7 HP and 2 Nm?

Who cares for the numbers? Have you ridden the new engine? I have. And it is a big improvement over the V7 - engine (which I own myself).
By the way, it may well be the new engine is a 750 as the 48 hp limit is important here in Europe. And to my knowledge the new 48 hp - bikes have to be designed to not exceed this limit, they may be not longer detuned.

[Dogwalker]

Well, this I didn't know Don't get me wrong... I am very happy that something new was developed but I'm just confused why new engine is still relatively underpowered in relation to the competition...

"relatively underpowered"?
In the chart below, the V9 performances are represented by the red line. It's main competitor there is the Street Twin, that has a brand new, liquid cooled, 900 cc engine. The results (measured by Moto Station) are 58.5 PS at the rear wheel for the V9 vs 54 for the Street Twin. The Street Twin has an higher torque only at low revs, but the torque is the same (despite the V9 engine being smaller) from 4200 to 5200 RPM, then that of the V9 is higher.

The Ducati 800 is more powerful, cause it can rev higher. It's evident that a pushrod engine can't rev as high as a sporty OHC one. But the V9 has a clear torque advantage from 0 to 6000 RPM, so for the main part of the regimes that are really used on the road, even on the Ducati.

In respect to the 750 engine, the gain is of 11-12 HP at the rear wheel starting fron 40-41 HP. That means a power gain of 27-29% increasing the displacement of only 13% and respecting strictier emission regulations.

[Dogwalker]

How about a Desmo moto version. I want a 500cc hemi head hi reving desmo Guzzi engine. Would freak out the Ducati guys!

Desmo is not really that useful any more. I want this distribution.

But with four valves.