Author Topic: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll  (Read 54685 times)

Offline kingoffleece

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #90 on: February 28, 2016, 09:37:36 PM »
That said, mine my 2015 V7 measures at between 14 and 14.5 from 1500 to 6000 rpm.  Constant reading on my meter. 
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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #91 on: February 28, 2016, 09:59:15 PM »
Amps being flow is correct, when talking bout wires, hence the term ampacity. If the wire is insufficient to provide the needed flow it heats up, voltage over distance is lost and so on.

In batteries, it isn't the flow that is only measured but the energy potential stored in the battery as measured by total capacity which can be x Watts or Amps depending on who is stating it.

Some of my 6 volt battery have a capacity of 225 amp hours, others have 305 and are larger. Still others get into the 700-1000 and greater capacities.

Battery capacities are measured in amps, not volts. Batteries no matter how they are wired together will not have less than the rated capacity on a single battery in the bank. The voltage can vary as determined by series or parallel wiring, in series the voltage doubling for example while the total capacity remaining at the amount for a single battery. In parallel, the voltage can for example remain as is(2 -6 volt remaining 6) but doubling in amps.

Also true is that if the wiring is insufficient, all that capacity means zip if it goes up in heat or smoke. Also true is that a battery can be caused to discharge very rapidly or charged very rapidly and that some of the potential charge or potential storage goes up in heat.

Offline rbm

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #92 on: February 28, 2016, 10:24:48 PM »
If interested, there is a very good EEVblog video tutorial on battery capacity geared heavily to portable electronics designers but still applicable to vehicular applications.
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Offline drlapo

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #93 on: February 29, 2016, 09:35:31 AM »
I changed the fuel filter and voltage regulator in my V7 this weekend.
I installed a mosfet VR.
It was not technically challenging but the wiring is fiddly and removing the fuel tank is a pain.
I tried the adapter bracket from roadster cycle but the VR fouled the engine guard bars. I elongated the stock mounting holes instead.
The VR works great; steady 14.2 volts..
The adapter bracket will work if you don't have"crash bars".
I did some internet research and found that the VR problem has been known for a few years.
I'm only aware of 1 incident where it caused major problems.
It seems that most of the time it just shortens the battery life.
I feel better knowing that the VR on my bike is performing at the recommended level

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #93 on: February 29, 2016, 09:35:31 AM »

Offline tonUPRacer

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #94 on: February 29, 2016, 10:27:53 AM »
does anyone have a link to order the actual replacement VR? I see lots of links for batteries, electrical theory, etc. but no link for the fix., that would be very helpful. I haven't checked mine yet, but based on poll numbers I'm guessing I'll be doing that soon.

Grazie.

Andy
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Online Kev m

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #95 on: February 29, 2016, 10:33:43 AM »
does anyone have a link to order the actual replacement VR? I see lots of links for batteries, electrical theory, etc. but no link for the fix., that would be very helpful. I haven't checked mine yet, but based on poll numbers I'm guessing I'll be doing that soon.

Grazie.

Andy

I believe that there is no plug-n-play fix yet.

The Mosfet requires cutting and soldering/crimping some wires.

The V7II regulator MIGHT be an option (not sure if the wiring matches though).

Todd a Guzzitech is currently investigation a plug-n-play solution.

I have yet to test mine. Maybe tomorrow.

« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 02:14:15 PM by Kev m »
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Offline tonUPRacer

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #96 on: February 29, 2016, 10:47:14 AM »
Thanks Kev, yeah I was aware Todd was looking into a plug n play, which would be great....but if that doesn't come to fruition, I'm fine with doing a little crimping and soldering. Anyone have a part no. or link for the Mossfet? Also looks like an adapter plate is required just some aluminum stock cut to size?
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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #97 on: February 29, 2016, 11:19:35 AM »
Thanks Kev, yeah I was aware Todd was looking into a plug n play, which would be great....but if that doesn't come to fruition, I'm fine with doing a little crimping and soldering. Anyone have a part no. or link for the Mossfet? Also looks like an adapter plate is required just some aluminum stock cut to size?

Never Mind, I spoke too soon (didn't check Guzzitech this morning, Todd posted EARLY this morning):

Quote from: GT-Rx®, post: 115024, member: 57
OK, sounds like you have it all figured out for everyone. So I'll bow out of this project now. Far too many irons in the fire.

Guess we're on our own.

Looks like people have used various solutions. One report is a Mosfet/SHINDENGEN FH020AA?

I'm seeing reports of 3-phase and have terminals for 3 yellow stator output wires.

Word is our V7's (I haven't checked this yet) have only 2 output wires. Meaning we would then just connect to any 2 of the R/R input yellow wires/terminals leaving the 3rd unused. Or if there's a pigtail I think some have suggested we splice 2 of the 3 input wires together.

« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 01:16:05 PM by Kev m »
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Offline rbm

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #98 on: February 29, 2016, 11:29:14 AM »
Word is our V7's (I haven't checked this yet) have only 2 output wires. Meaning we would then just connect to any 2 of the R/R input yellow wires/terminals leaving the 3rd unused. Or if there's a pigtail I think some have suggested we splice 2 of the 3 input wires together.
Connect the two wires to any of the three available R/R inputs. Don't use a pigtail.  The alternator input goes through the rectifier and it's phasing is not critical.

There was someone who posted to GT saying that the new V7II for 2015 has 7 wires into the VR, not 6 as previous.  They mentioned "white plug has 3 big yellow ones not 2. .... the black has 2 red with white stripe and 2 solid green".  If this is correct, then the newer alternator is 3-phase Delta, not single-phase.
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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #99 on: February 29, 2016, 11:50:10 AM »
Connect the two wires to any of the three available R/R inputs. Don't use a pigtail.  The alternator input goes through the rectifier and it's phasing is not critical.

There was someone who posted to GT saying that the new V7II for 2015 has 7 wires into the VR, not 6 as previous.  They mentioned "white plug has 3 big yellow ones not 2. .... the black has 2 red with white stripe and 2 solid green".  If this is correct, then the newer alternator is 3-phase Delta, not single-phase.

Are the plugs the same on the V7 and V7 II R/R's? (just with an additional unused pin on the V7)? Or should I assume they wouldn't be plug and play either?
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Offline rbm

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #100 on: February 29, 2016, 12:10:24 PM »
Good question.  I don't think myself qualified to give the definitive answer, but given the differences in the number of wires on the R/R units, I'd say they are not interchangeable.
- Robert

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #101 on: February 29, 2016, 12:23:08 PM »
Good question.  I don't think myself qualified to give the definitive answer, but given the differences in the number of wires on the R/R units, I'd say they are not interchangeable.

But don't the alternates that are being used such as the Mosfet/SHINDENGEN FH020AA have the same wiring? I.E. they're set-up for 3-wire stator output connections (3-phase stators)?

EDIT - here's on Mosfet solution being used:

Quote from: 99sh, post: 115014, member: 8100
Bought mine from this seller (there are many others if you search): lU0g" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-SHINDENGEN-FH020AA-REGULATOR-W-CONNECTORS-REPLACES-FH012AA-/380705241034?hash=item58a3ccf7ca:m:mkhmKfGHbRfG_5CQV4N lU0g

For $120 shipped, it comes with everything you need. I already had some AL sheet laying around, so cutting was no big deal (made a template from cardboard first to get shape down). No need for any circuit breakers, the VR output goes to your fusebox already.

and

Quote from: 99sh, post: 115019, member: 8100
Wiring is extremely easy. There are two connectors, one is a 3-pin, other 2-pin

The 2-pin connector is the Battery positive & ground
The 3-pin connector goes to your stator  (yellow wires)

Note: my 2013 has a 2-phase stator, hence has 2 yellow wires. Most bikes (suspect the newer V7s) have the usual 3-phase stator. If you have a 2-phase unit, connect the 2 yellow wires to any of the 3 pins. If you have 3-yellow wires stock, you have a 3-phase unit and will connect each yellow wire to each pin on the regulator (order doesn't matter).



« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 12:34:51 PM by Kev m »
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Offline tonUPRacer

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #102 on: February 29, 2016, 01:35:55 PM »
Thanks for tracking that info down Kev. I'm probably a few weeks away from firing my bike up and testing (I'll post results) but it's good to have this info ready if I need it.
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Offline pyoungbl

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #103 on: February 29, 2016, 02:12:42 PM »
The Mosfet R/R had a different bolt pattern so I made a simple bracket which also doubles as a heat sink:


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Offline pyoungbl

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #104 on: February 29, 2016, 03:56:34 PM »
John, the wires that came with the R/R kit were long enough that I had to cut them down a bit in order to keep everything neat and tidy.

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Offline drlapo

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #105 on: February 29, 2016, 04:34:06 PM »
I have a new aluminum mounting plate that I bought for the Mosfet installation but I didn't use it
Does anyone want it?  $20 shipped?

Offline Zinfan

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #106 on: February 29, 2016, 05:10:47 PM »
I bought mine here http://www.roadstercycle.com/  I bought the Super Mosfit kit with circuit breaker. 

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #107 on: February 29, 2016, 06:28:05 PM »
I bought mine here http://www.roadstercycle.com/  I bought the Super Mosfit kit with circuit breaker.

Thanks for posting.

Any details on which kit and how you installed?
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Offline rbm

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #108 on: February 29, 2016, 08:37:14 PM »
But don't the alternates that are being used such as the Mosfet/SHINDENGEN FH020AA have the same wiring? I.E. they're set-up for 3-wire stator output connections (3-phase stators)?
Apologies Kev.  I thought you were asking about whether the OEM R/R for the V7 would be interchangeable with the OEM R/R for the V7II.  I didn't get that you were asking about OEM versus aftermarket.
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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #109 on: February 29, 2016, 09:01:19 PM »
Apologies Kev.  I thought you were asking about whether the OEM R/R for the V7 would be interchangeable with the OEM R/R for the V7II.  I didn't get that you were asking about OEM versus aftermarket.

No, you're right, I was asking that too.

I'm just looking at all options. Trying to narrow down what's best for us all.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 09:01:43 PM by Kev m »
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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #110 on: March 01, 2016, 06:29:46 AM »
OK, REAL TEST (running voltage monitor) coming in a few hours.

BUT, we have our first indication that all might not be right.


It occurred to me when thinking about this last night that over the past few years that the V7 has been in the fleet that during the winter months when I rotate a Battery Tender through the bikes (I do that once a month, to each bike for a few hours or a day) that the V7 has always been the slowest to change from RED to flashing Green to solid Green.

I didn't think much of it because at first it wasn't far off from the Sportster, which in retrospect might have been a red flag since the Sportster battery was ALREADY 6 years old the day I brought the V7 home for the first time. By the time I noticed this similarity I think it was 8 years old!

So last night I go out to plug the charger in (changing of the month means it's time again, for reference the "nice" bikes - meaning the Duc and Goose - have been asleep since the end of Nov/beg of Dec when they salted the roads for the first time).

I plugged the Battery Tender into the Goose and waited a few minutes, still RED, ok, I'll check back.

I checked an hour later, STILL RED - UH OHHH.

I checked 2 hours later, STILL RED - OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH .

I checked this morning - OK, it's GREEN.

I unplug the tender from the V7 and plug it into the 2 year older, couple of thousand less miles Ducati that gets ridden less often but which was charged within hours of the last time the V7 was charged AND - FLASHING GREEN BEFORE I EVEN GET TO THE GARAGE DOOR.


So we have our first indication that the battery in the V7 is NOT as healthy as the 2 year older battery in the Ducati.

I'll report back later today if I find the suspected reason for that difference.

If I had to guess though I'm going to say the charging voltage is going to be high.

« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 06:31:48 AM by Kev m »
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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #111 on: March 01, 2016, 11:57:52 AM »
Do you know for certain if the V7 has more or less parasitic draws than the Duke? If not you are chasing ghosts.

You might want to try a charger that shows the amperage going into the battery otherwise you really can't tell what is going on, just guessing.

Your battery might be in a worse condition on the V7 but if it is more than a few years old it means little. One battery could have been inferior from the start. How would you know?
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 12:09:11 PM by Norge Pilot »

Offline Zinfan

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #112 on: March 01, 2016, 01:07:27 PM »
Thanks for posting.

Any details on which kit and how you installed?

That page is a bit confusing since all the products are listed on the same page, here is a screenshot of the one I bought


I'll see if I can take any informative pictures but most of that stuff is buried under the tank.  I do remember giving some thought to the connection between the stator and the R/R in that it seemed I'd have to cut the wires from the stator in a manner that would not allow me to go back to a stock R/R but looking at it further I found that I could splice the new harness in after the stator connector and thus retain the ability to plug a stocker back in.  It's a bit fuzzy now sorry!
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 01:10:49 PM by Zinfan »

Offline Zinfan

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #113 on: March 01, 2016, 01:56:18 PM »
No way to get any pictures of the R/R install, just too much in the way.

Here is my bike fresh off the battery tender


At idle


At 4000 rpm

So at least the mosfet R/R remains working well.  I do think I'll replace the battery before I go for an extended trip later this year as I ran it flat once when I forgot to put the tender on it and didn't ride for awhile.


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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #114 on: March 01, 2016, 02:35:03 PM »
OK, so cold start this afternoon gave me 15.4 Volts from 1-4k rpm.

I figured I've had it for years and it's probably always done this, so I took it for a ride (to drain the fuel a bit, I figure it's probably easier to pull the tank to do this anyway, and I might as well replace that fuel filter now if that's the case).

When I got back it was reading 12.8 volts at idle, but still 15.4 anywhere above that.

I need a voltage regulator, and I'm starting to believe I won't be alone.

Jay and Cam are gonna test there's this week, but our assumption is that we'll be order 4 voltage regulators by next week.

Zinfan - THANKS FOR ALL THAT. One last follow-up question. Did that require a mounting plate? If so did you buy that universal plate from him or fabricate one yourself?

NP - I understand your point, but practically speaking I suspect the parasitic loads are comparable differnt only by RCHs between all 3 of the bikes in the fleet. There's little doubt in my mind the battery was damaged over time with too high a charge rate.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 02:42:15 PM by Kev m »
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Offline drlapo

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #115 on: March 01, 2016, 02:56:06 PM »
If you don't use the adapter plate the stock mounting holes in the frame can be easily elongated and the Mosfet unit bolted in the stock location
I used a 1/4" rat tail file and one of those rotary cutting bits in a drill
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 08:55:47 AM by drlapo »

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #116 on: March 01, 2016, 03:46:50 PM »
OK, so cold start this afternoon gave me 15.4 Volts from 1-4k rpm.

I figured I've had it for years and it's probably always done this, so I took it for a ride (to drain the fuel a bit, I figure it's probably easier to pull the tank to do this anyway, and I might as well replace that fuel filter now if that's the case).

When I got back it was reading 12.8 volts at idle, but still 15.4 anywhere above that.

I need a voltage regulator, and I'm starting to believe I won't be alone.

Jay and Cam are gonna test there's this week, but our assumption is that we'll be order 4 voltage regulators by next week.

Zinfan - THANKS FOR ALL THAT. One last follow-up question. Did that require a mounting plate? If so did you buy that universal plate from him or fabricate one yourself?

NP - I understand your point, but practically speaking I suspect the parasitic loads are comparable differnt only by RCHs between all 3 of the bikes in the fleet. There's little doubt in my mind the battery was damaged over time with too high a charge rate.

When you replace that battery and install a fresh VR, what an opportunity to document and check performance over time.

Beware of the surface charge. As you can see a few posts above, checking a battery fresh off a charge is meaningless. Batteries get a surface charge that needs to be discharged before an accurate reading of the battery can take place.

You can turn on some accessories with the engine off but ignition on but a better way is to leave it overnight and check it the following day.

By allowing the surface charge to discharge you get a real indication of the batteries charged voltage.

Following that ritual, checking each week or so you can plot performance over time, if it is a curiosity to you.

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #117 on: March 01, 2016, 03:51:02 PM »
No way to get any pictures of the R/R install, just too much in the way.

Here is my bike fresh off the battery tender


At idle


At 4000 rpm

So at least the mosfet R/R remains working well.  I do think I'll replace the battery before I go for an extended trip later this year as I ran it flat once when I forgot to put the tender on it and didn't ride for awhile.

The first pic is what I was referring to, the surface charge. Checking a battery fresh of a charger show you nothing unless it was overcharged. Even a bad battery is likely to show decent voltage right off the charger.

Remove the surface charge and then you'll know what the state of charge really is.

Best way is to let it sit overnight, better than putting a load on it unless you know what that load is and repeat it accurately each time you check it.

Surface charges are what tricks people into thinking their battery is ok, they take off and after eating lunch or something, the come out and the battery is a clicker.

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #118 on: March 01, 2016, 03:56:29 PM »
When you replace that battery and install a fresh VR, what an opportunity to document and check performance over time.

Beware of the surface charge. As you can see a few posts above... <snip>

Well, I'm not planning on replacing the battery at this time. I suspect it's lost some lifespan, but it certainly doesn't seem dead.

And though I appreciate the well-meaning pointers, you don't know what I do for a living do you? (no big deal, it's just funny).



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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #119 on: March 01, 2016, 04:01:26 PM »
Well, I'm not planning on replacing the battery at this time. I suspect it's lost some lifespan, but it certainly doesn't seem dead.

And though I appreciate the well-meaning pointers, you don't know what I do for a living do you? (no big deal, it's just funny).

No, :laugh:

Cause I stopped doing stuff for a living some time ago, figured everyone else had too.  :thumb:

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