Author Topic: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll  (Read 51819 times)

Offline pikipiki

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #270 on: March 13, 2016, 02:58:53 PM »
was actually 1/28 ohm, 0.0357... ohm, my phone playing up real bad typing into forum so having dificulty explaning.
12" wire resistance 5.5ohm
12" / 5.5 = 2.181818...
I made wire 2.181818 long and used 28 wires.
one strand of kathal will handle a lot of curent at high current it glows but at less than about 2a per wire it wont glow, i try and stay below 1 amp per wire.
it will heat up but should not get too hot.
edit :
the trick in making the resistor is make it a little long twist it to lower resistance, snip a wire out to raise.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 03:28:37 PM by pikipiki »

Offline Cam3512

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #271 on: March 13, 2016, 03:04:20 PM »
Anyone here install the larger aftermarket VR (FH020AA) with crash bars on their V7?   Just wondering about fit or interference with the bars where they mount to the frame up top.
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Offline drlapo

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #272 on: March 13, 2016, 06:31:44 PM »
Yes I mounted the Mosfet VR on my13 v7 special with guzzi brand engine bars. I used the stock mounting holes and elongated them with a file.
I also used short spacers on6the mounting bolts so the wires from the VR do not touch the front engine cover

Offline Cam3512

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #273 on: March 13, 2016, 06:41:49 PM »
Yes I mounted the Mosfet VR on my13 v7 special with guzzi brand engine bars. I used the stock mounting holes and elongated them with a file.
I also used short spacers on6the mounting bolts so the wires from the VR do not touch the front engine cover

Thank you.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 06:42:23 PM by Cam3512 »
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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #273 on: March 13, 2016, 06:41:49 PM »

Offline jas67

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #274 on: March 13, 2016, 07:32:39 PM »
I put the Shindengen FH020AA from Roadster Cycle on both my V7's (2013 V7R, 2014 V7S).    Now, both are a rock solid 14.3 volts from idle to 6,000 RPM.

I made adapter plates from 2" x 1/4" aluminum bar stock cut to 4" lengths.
IMG_8736 by jay_snyder67, on Flickr


The plate mounts to the bike using flat head stainless steel socket head screws in the countersunk holes.     The VR attaches to the plate with M6x20mm stainless steel socket head cap screws.

IMG_8737 by jay_snyder67, on Flickr

IMG_8738 by jay_snyder67, on Flickr

The wiring clears the front engine cover.
IMG_8737 by jay_snyder67, on Flickr
Things are a little tighter on the V7 Racer with it's Record fairing.

IMG_8744 by jay_snyder67, on Flickr

On bikes with crash bars mounted to the holes above, it will be necessary to mount the VR lower, and further away so the wires don't foul the front engine cover where they exit the cover.    Using 1/2" think aluminum will do the job or just a second 1/4" piece as a space will do as well.

« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 07:37:54 PM by jas67 »
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Offline jas67

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #275 on: March 13, 2016, 07:44:30 PM »
Adapter harness:
IMG_8733 by jay_snyder67, on Flickr

I cut the wiring off the stock VR, and spliced into the stub harness provided with RoadsterCycle's "crimp & go" kit.

There are two yellow wires on the stuck VR, so, simple yellow (#10,#12) butt splices do the job.
But, there are TWO connections for the plus and minus DC circuits.     Lacking a suitable terminal join two #12 wires to single #10, I opted to solder these connections, and then cover them with water proof heat shrink tubing that has a hot-glue type coating on the inside that melts when you heat the tubing and seals the connection.

IMG_8735 by jay_snyder67, on Flickr

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2013 Ducati Monster 796, 2013 848 Evo Corse SE, 1974 750GT, 1970 Mk3d Desmo, 1966 Monza 250
2007 Vespa GTS250
2016 BMW R1200RS, 80 R100S, 76 R90S ,73 R75/5
76 Honda CB400F, 67 305 Super Hawk, 68 CL175

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #276 on: March 13, 2016, 09:40:45 PM »
jas67, that plate is begging for 10-15 additional holes.  :wink:

Offline SmithSwede

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #277 on: March 13, 2016, 09:41:51 PM »
Ok, another data point.  I've got a 2013 V7 Stone with 40,400 miles, and original battery and everything else stock.

After a long ride with engine and everything else stinking hot, I'm showing:

Idle 14.0 volts.

15.37 V at both 3,000 and 4,000 rpm.   

Main ground and all other connectors I'm aware of are known to be clean and tight.  Just did the spring time DeOxit and tightening.

Maybe my logic is faulty, but I'm prepared not to care.  Yes, maybe it's a bit hot.  But I don't really trust a motorcycle battery after 2 to 3 years anyway.  In my view, spending $75 for a fresh battery on a regular basis eliminates a lot of electrical problems and minimizes my worries on the road far from home. 

Heck, based on what KevM has found, it's not clear to me that this performance is even out of spec.   
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 09:45:41 PM by SmithSwede »
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Offline mcguyver

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #278 on: March 14, 2016, 01:49:52 AM »
I have a 2012 V7R which is showing 15.1 volts. Can anyone confirm if this is cause for concern? I am confused by all the posts.

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #279 on: March 14, 2016, 06:12:07 AM »
From the service dept where I purchased my bike FWIW.

Bob,

We think Guzzi installed that higher switching voltage regulator/rectifier on purpose. They are all like that. All measure same.

There was no way to expand the alternator size because of the wheel and casting positions so they bumped up the voltage of the zener diode gate switch. Yeah, poor substitute but it was cheap!

You can go back to 14.6VDC reg/rec if you want but in our opinion it doesn't resolve anything really.

Offline tonUPRacer

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #280 on: March 14, 2016, 08:39:31 AM »


Maybe my logic is faulty, but I'm prepared not to care.  Yes, maybe it's a bit hot.  But I don't really trust a motorcycle battery after 2 to 3 years anyway.  In my view, spending $75 for a fresh battery on a regular basis eliminates a lot of electrical problems and minimizes my worries on the road far from home. 

Heck, based on what KevM has found, it's not clear to me that this performance is even out of spec.

I'm leaning ^^^this way as well after talking to my dealer Jim at Rose Farm.
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Online Kev m

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #281 on: March 14, 2016, 08:55:42 AM »
I have a 2012 V7R which is showing 15.1 volts. Can anyone confirm if this is cause for concern? I am confused by all the posts.

As you well should be because no one has a definitive answer and there are differing opinions.

I've tried to lay out all the data to let people make up their own minds.

But every indication is that your bike is likely functioning as designed.

Of course the same could be said about a lot of other Guzzis that are changed by the owners to function differently or better than the factory.

My personal take is this, MG spec'd a higher than industry charging rate on these bikes. But that variances in build quality or possibly a bad batch of regulators has some of them charging even higher.

Meanwhile a couple with more serious problems that were spiking voltages in the 16-17 V range fried their CAM sensor or ECU which is what led to a mass check of the charging systems.

Some, like Todd at Guzzitech would prefer to see voltages no higher than the traditional 14.4 and as such are recommending a change in regulator even if you are only showing 14.8-15.1 volts.

My little brother Jay, an electrical engineer by trade, seems to largely concur.

I'm a little more trusting to both the MG design and my own observations (like some here, Smith Swede and the like), so I'm tempted to call it normal. But I'm still replacing my regulator for long term function.

My thought is that IF you decide to keep it stock, maybe it's worth the effort to add a voltmeter gauge so you know if it ever spikes into dangerous territory.

« Last Edit: March 14, 2016, 09:04:48 AM by Kev m »
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Online Kev m

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #282 on: March 14, 2016, 08:57:19 AM »
Ok, another data point.  I've got a 2013 V7 Stone with 40,400 miles, and original battery and everything else stock.

After a long ride with engine and everything else stinking hot, I'm showing:

Idle 14.0 volts.

15.37 V at both 3,000 and 4,000 rpm.   

Main ground and all other connectors I'm aware of are known to be clean and tight.  Just did the spring time DeOxit and tightening.

Maybe my logic is faulty, but I'm prepared not to care.  Yes, maybe it's a bit hot.  But I don't really trust a motorcycle battery after 2 to 3 years anyway.  In my view, spending $75 for a fresh battery on a regular basis eliminates a lot of electrical problems and minimizes my worries on the road far from home. 

Heck, based on what KevM has found, it's not clear to me that this performance is even out of spec.


I completely understand this take on it.

My only reservation and bewilderment are the 2013/14 models that are testing in the mid 14's. Why that difference?
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Offline pyoungbl

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #283 on: March 14, 2016, 09:12:59 AM »
Another data point:  I discovered that the R/R on my '13 V7 was charging at over 15V and switched to a mosfet R/R.  This at about 5K miles on the bike.  Yesterday, at 7.5K, my battery was discharged to the point the bike would barely crank but not start.  I had just put over 700 miles on the bike in the past 10 days and there was no drain, that I could identify, in the two days between the last start and now.  My conclusion is that the over-charge probably damaged the battery just enough to lead to an early death.  This might also explain why, at idle, the system was discharging.

The 15+V charge might not immediately kill the battery but I believe it can do no good and will probably hasten the demise of electrical components...the battery being the first.  At 2.5 years it's a bit early to see a battery die with no sign of abuse. 

Peter Y.
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Online Kev m

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #284 on: March 14, 2016, 09:21:18 AM »
As I reported early in this thread my V7 Stone battery is showing signs of age when compared to the other, older batteries in my fleet over the past year or two.
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Offline jas67

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #285 on: March 14, 2016, 09:36:29 AM »
My 2013 V7R has about 9k miles on it, and is now 3 1/2 years old.   It will be interesting to see how long the batter lasts as compared to my 2014 V7 Special that only has 15xx miles on it, and now has the new regulator (at 14.3 volts).
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Offline SmithSwede

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #286 on: March 25, 2016, 04:38:56 PM »
OK, another data point.   This Tuesday I had to replace the original battery on my 13 Stone after 27 months of regular use and 40,500 miles.  It was a cold morning at 36 degrees, and it just didn't have enough juice to spin the engine fast enough to crank.
 
Put a new Yuasa in, and was surprised at how much peppier my starter motor was with a fresh battery.   I had gotten used to sluggish turnover.  So I'd have to say that my original battery had been on its last legs for a while.

Maybe it died an early death to overly hot 15+ volt charging.  But my working theory is that you guys jinxed it by raising this subject and making me put a voltmeter to the battery. 
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Offline O

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #287 on: March 26, 2016, 08:11:56 AM »
SmithSwede,  I'm with you, the jinx is in!  :wink:

Based on my findings for my bike, I'm going to keep the stock VR and take my chances. 
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Offline Cam3512

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #288 on: March 26, 2016, 08:20:09 AM »
SmithSwede,  I'm with you, the jinx is in!  :wink:

Based on my findings for my bike, I'm going to keep the stock VR and take my chances.

The EVIDENCE is also in!  His stock VR killed his battery in just over 2 years.  Good luck with that, replacing mine. 
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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #289 on: April 01, 2016, 02:16:13 PM »
HOPEFULLY MY LAST REPORT ON THIS TOPIC

If you remember a few weeks ago I, like a lot of 2013-14 owners (maybe 15 not-so-much) found that my bike was charging a bit high either when judged by most battery manufacturer info or even Guzzi's own factory service manual:

OK, so cold start this afternoon gave me 15.4 Volts from 1-4k rpm.

I figured I've had it for years and it's probably always done this, so I took it for a ride (to drain the fuel a bit, I figure it's probably easier to pull the tank to do this anyway, and I might as well replace that fuel filter now if that's the case).

When I got back it was reading 12.8 volts at idle, but still 15.4 anywhere above that.

I need a voltage regulator, and I'm starting to believe I won't be alone.

In the end Jay, Cam, and I got 4 regulators from Jack @ www.roadstercycle.c om and Jay wired them to our existing connectors cut from the old OEM regulators.

This was a nice way to adapt the 2 wire output of the Mosfet regulator to the 4 wire (output for the OEM regulator) and it made it a nice plug and play with the ability to go back to an OEM replacement unit if ever desired.

My bike is now showing about 12.8 V @b warm idle, and no more than 14.25-14.30 @ speed cold or warm.

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Offline pyoungbl

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #290 on: April 01, 2016, 03:33:26 PM »
Well, I had to replace my battery yesterday.  The bike is 2 1/2 years old.  After being fully charged (Battery Tender charger) to 14V the bike sat for about a week.  When I pushed the start button nothing happened...no click...nothing but some lights.  My meter showed 11V.  The battery shop agreed that this was probably due to being over charged for a couple years.  With a sealed battery you can't simply pop the caps and see if there is a problem.   Now she fires right up.

Growing old ain't for sissies.

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Offline jas67

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #291 on: April 01, 2016, 06:18:15 PM »
Well, I had to replace my battery yesterday.  The bike is 2 1/2 years old.  After being fully charged (Battery Tender charger) to 14V the bike sat for about a week.  When I pushed the start button nothing happened...no click...nothing but some lights.  My meter showed 11V.  The battery shop agreed that this was probably due to being over charged for a couple years.  With a sealed battery you can't simply pop the caps and see if there is a problem.   Now she fires right up.

Now might be a good time to replace that VR.
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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #292 on: April 01, 2016, 06:46:44 PM »
Now might be a good time to replace that VR.

Ha, ha, but he did. At about 5k but the damage to the battery was already done.
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Offline drlapo

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #293 on: April 01, 2016, 06:57:46 PM »
The battery in my1979 Triumph T140 is 10 years old this month
3 phase alternator with a podtronics regulator rectifier
« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 02:27:17 AM by drlapo »

Offline pyoungbl

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #294 on: April 01, 2016, 07:01:23 PM »
Ha, ha, but he did. At about 5k but the damage to the battery was already done.
:1:

As I recall, I was  one of the first to mention the over charge problem...and that replacing the R/R was prudent.  Since then we have had lots of scholarly discussion about the issue.  In the end I have had what I consider to be an early battery failure.  Others seem to think that it's OK to have a R/R charging the battery at +15V, I do not share that opinion.  Now I have a replacement R/R and a new battery...I'm good to go for quite a long time.  See you on the road.
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Offline jas67

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #295 on: April 01, 2016, 09:19:19 PM »
Ha, ha, but he did. At about 5k but the damage to the battery was already done.

D'oh!

I was confusing him with someone else who said he wasn't concerned.

 :embarrassed:

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Online Kiwi_Roy

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #296 on: April 01, 2016, 10:41:54 PM »
Check the ground connection, I doubt it's that but won't do any harm to check.
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Offline Muzz

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #297 on: April 01, 2016, 11:39:31 PM »
:1:

.  Others seem to think that it's OK to have a R/R charging the battery at +15V, I do not share that opinion. 

You and me also!
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Offline pikipiki

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #298 on: April 02, 2016, 03:27:37 AM »
From the service dept where I purchased my bike FWIW.

Bob,

We think Guzzi installed that higher switching voltage regulator/rectifier on purpose. They are all like that. All measure same.

There was no way to expand the alternator size because of the wheel and casting positions so they bumped up the voltage of the zener diode gate switch. Yeah, poor substitute but it was cheap!

You can go back to 14.6VDC reg/rec if you want but in our opinion it doesn't resolve anything really.


I understand this is not an opinion but a quote. I don't follow the logic of the quoted statement. Asside from getting into the technicalities of how this would make negligible difference, the alternator is 350w, Guzzi later changed to 270w with a lower voltage regulator so they could not have been so concerned about saving a few watts of alternator output.

Offline tonUPRacer

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #299 on: April 18, 2016, 09:38:33 AM »
Looks like the poll is closed, finally got around to testing mine. My battery is 1 year old, one of those Lightweight Lithium jobs. I'm showing 15.5 at 3K rpm. Since I don't want to fry this $200 battery, I'm replacing. Really wanted spend that money on coating my headers and exhaust instead of a VR... : :angry:
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