I'm a baaaaad boy. ***pics added***

[jbell]

Been kicking it over for awhile and finally decided to go ahead and get a V7III.  Good price for new at local Guzzi dealership.  Went down today and there it was with a price tag listing the sale price and then adding another $800 for transportation and dealer prep.  I understand these are legitimate fees just like tax, title & license but don't tell me a sale price and then add another 10% to it.  Just tell me the price and I'll make my decision.  My decision? Turned around and walked out the door.  Proceeded on to the BMW/Triumph dealership to pick up a battery for my BMW and looked around at the used selection.  Asked about a used white Thruxton R, very nice, but not quite the right bike. Salesman said they just took in a 2016 red one in trade; but.............naa aaaaw.  "It has a full factory fairing."  "Okay, I'll look at it".............Boiiii ing.  6500 miles, how much?  "I'll take it!"  Pick it up the day after Christmas and will provide pics. 

[Bud]

     Congratulations on the purchase! Had a similar thing happen today. Went to a shop today to look at but not purchase a Royal Enfield Himalayan. The bike is nationally advertised with an msrp of $4500.00. but they charge a $595.00 destination charge. An additional  charge of $195.00 for documents as well. I know a dealer has to cover costs and make a profit but I blame Royal Enfield for the destination charge as an add on. 
     If you told me the motorcycle was in India at a price of $4500.00 usd and it would cost $595.00 to get it here fine but don't tell me the bike is in the USA at one price and then charge me extra.
     Maybe this is an acceptable practice in the "industry" but that doesn't mean it's acceptable to me. Again not blaming the dealer directly but just scumbagish.

[Gliderjohn]

 :got pics:
GliderJohn

[Lannis]

     Congratulations on the purchase! Had a similar thing happen today. Went to a shop today to look at but not purchase a Royal Enfield Himalayan. The bike is nationally advertised with an msrp of $4500.00. but they charge a $595.00 destination charge. An additional  charge of $195.00 for documents as well. I know a dealer has to cover costs and make a profit but I blame Royal Enfield for the destination charge as an add on. 
     If you told me the motorcycle was in India at a price of $4500.00 usd and it would cost $595.00 to get it here fine but don't tell me the bike is in the USA at one price and then charge me extra.
     Maybe this is an acceptable practice in the "industry" but that doesn't mean it's acceptable to me. Again not blaming the dealer directly but just scumbagish.

It IS the practice in the moto-business, and I've always hated it.   It's a RETAIL business, for cryin' out loud, I don't care about their purchasing department paperwork and their trucking bills; that's part of why you PAY retail, in a dealership or anywhere.

I can just see if I went into the Apple store to buy a new MacBook.   

"That'll be $1,495 please, plus 5% state tax is $1,569.75".   I say "OK" and start shucking out the bills.   "Oh, yes, and it cost $75 to get it here to the store, and I had to check it into shipping and receiving, Myrtle in the back unpacked it, George brought it out here, and then there's my salesman's cut of course, so that will be $1,769.75 total."

I've had dealers tell me "BY LAW, we have to price it this way ..." and I know it's being shoved to me without even buying me dinner ....

Lannis

[pyoungbl]

Deceptive advertising but it's the industry norm.  Go shopping at your local car dealer and you will find there is a shipping charge on top of the MSRP.  In many cases that shipping charge is the same no matter where you shop. If you bought a car from a dealer whose store was across the street from the factory you'd be charged the same as if you bought 30000 miles away.  Oh, and then they add in a marketing charge (the ads to sell the car, and the dealers are expected to chip in for those ads.  Ever think about those full page ads in your local paper....that's how they are paid for).  My 'frost my balls' charge is for 'documentation'.  That's to pay a clerk to go to DMV and get the vehicle registered.  It takes about 20 minutes to go through that drill and he/she is doing a batch of cars at the same time.  Now dealers can do the whole drill on line and even issue a plate from the dealership.  The last car I bought came with a doc charge of $495.  Motorcycle dealers are learning from the car guys so you'll hear stuff like "this is required by law" and it's total BS.  The only exception I'm aware of is CSC.  The MSRP is XXXXX and there is a charge for shipping from China to California.  The Document fee is pretty nominal (they do have to create a MSO and bill of sale).  You get the bike and take the paperwork to DMV yourself.  Easy Peasy.

[Ncdan]

Very reason I don't buy used bikes from dealers. I hunt until I find an individual that I feel is trust worthy. I then check out the bike and make the deal. I normally attempt to get an open title to make sure I want to keep the bike for an extended amount of time.

[ff73148]

The profit on motorcycles is very low. They cannot absorb the shipping costs that the manufacturer's charge them. Set up charges and document charges are somewhat negotiable. If you want your local dealer to stay in business he has to make some type of profit.

[jbell]

I'll have some pics next week after I pick up the bike.  The salesman at the Triumph/BMW store said it's common practice and they do that as well.  I spent almost 15 years selling cars, new and used, and destination and prep fees were always included in the advertised price.  Just TT&L were added plus the phony baloney doc. fee.  I'll let them push me around a little, everyone's gotta make a living, but I won't let them walk on me.  I was waiting for the Royal Enfield dealer to call me when they received the new 650s, oh well.  The new battery was just what my old Beemer needed.     Anybody have a garage stretcher??

[rschrum]

So what are used Thruxton R's going for these days?

[stubbie]

It's the same when you buy new cars here. There's a price on the window of say $24,990. So you go in to buy. Oh you want red metallic paint, that's an extra $500. Oh a new car that's $1200 extra to detail and get the car ready for pick up. Window tint, an extra $750 and so on. Best to look for $24,990 drive away no more to pay.

[Lannis]

The profit on motorcycles is very low. They cannot absorb the shipping costs that the manufacturer's charge them. Set up charges and document charges are somewhat negotiable. If you want your local dealer to stay in business he has to make some type of profit.

But again, it's a RETAIL business.   Why does a car dealer or bike dealer get to moan about his profit margin, his overhead costs, transportation costs, workmen's comp costs to a CUSTOMER when no one else running a store or dealer gets to do that?   I can buy a $5,000 Suzuki and have to listen to "destination" and "document" whining ... or I can go to Lowe's and buy a $5,000 Viking refrigerator and not hear a thing about it.

Maybe the problem is that we're all, dealers and customers, being scammed with a thing called "MSRP" when that number is really just lying, bait-and-switch bullsh!t.   "Manufacturers Suggested" my hind end.   It's just a meaningless number ....

Lannis

[guzzisteve]

Does anyone here actually know what the shipping is? Well, I do, it's about $250-300. It's the same for all dealers, whether you are 5mi from warehouse or 3000mi from warehouse. The dealer prep is to put gas in it for most of the dealers out there. Then they change the price? Find a better dealer, they are out there. Not much set up, the bike comes put together, they have to put on the mirrors and acid in the batt.

[jbell]

It's the same when you buy new cars here. There's a price on the window of say $24,990. So you go in to buy. Oh you want red metallic paint, that's an extra $500. Oh a new car that's $1200 extra to detail and get the car ready for pick up. Window tint, an extra $750 and so on. Best to look for $24,990 drive away no more to pay.

Here in the US, all new cars carry a window (monronie) sticker that lists base MSRP, added options and packages, destination fees, regional advertising fees, package discounts and a bottom line MSRP.  The dealers will ad an addendum sticker listing any dealer added options such as pin striping, fabric protection or "paint sealant"  which are a pure profit center for the dealers.  My gripe is advertising a price and that not being the real price.  TT&L are added later just like buying a shirt at the mercantile and paying tax at check out.

[kingoffleece]

Well, that's not my experience at Triumph.  EVERY bike cost us 495.00 to take off the truck.  No negotiating with that. 450.00Period.
It took the techs about 1 1/2 hours to PDI a bike.  The bike needs to be hooked into a computer to register the bike.  THAT tool is $$$$$$$$.  Then we added oil at our cost.  Total charge for PDI was 150.00.  Pay tech, lights, insurance, oil, shop equipment and so on.  We vwere number 3 in the USA and gave it up as it's almost impossible to make a profit.

Gripe about $$$ all you want but I'll guarantee if it was YOUR business you'd feel different.  And don't flippen jump all over me-I've seen the books at two dealerships and it's not all roses-not by a LONG shot.

[jbell]

So what are used Thruxton R's going for these days?

Mine went for $11K even out the door. It's a 2016 with the 6500 miles and the big factory fairing.  All else stock as near as we could tell.

[jbell]

Gripe about $$$ all you want but I'll guarantee if it was YOUR business you'd feel different.  And don't flippen jump all over me-I've seen the books at two dealerships and it's not all roses-not by a LONG shot.

No jumping going on here.  I recognize all these as legitimate costs.  I don't mind them being delineated on the price tag, invoice or whatever.  What turned me sour was advertising the bike at a specific price and then finding out that wasn't the price.  I always expect TT&L to be added on afterwards.  Not mad at anyone, just, perhaps, a bit disappointed.  I really did want a new V7III Special.

[kingoffleece]

You got a nice bike.

[Motormike]

I've dealt with Southern Honda Powersports in Chattanooga.  High volume dealer. They don't add on any fees except tax and title. The price you see on the tag is the price you pay.  Of course, they factor in everything so as to come up with a price that makes them a little money on each unit.    Don't expect them to come off their price though.  I priced a Honda Pioneer SxS with them about a year ago.  Offered them $500 less than their asking price, they told me no, so I walked.  Worked out to my advantage when they had a model year clearance sale at the end of the year that knocked $1000 off their original price. I paid it no questions asked.  The salesmen will try to up-sell you on the extended warranty stuff.  I hate all the up-selling more than the freight and set-up games.

[Lannis]

I've dealt with Southern Honda Powersports in Chattanooga.  High volume dealer. They don't add on any fees except tax and title. The price you see on the tag is the price you pay.  Of course, they factor in everything so as to come up with a price that makes them a little money on each unit.    Don't expect them to come off their price though.  I priced a Honda Pioneer SxS with them about a year ago.  Offered them $500 less than their asking price, they told me no, so I walked.  Worked out to my advantage when they had a model year clearance sale at the end of the year that knocked $1000 off their original price. I paid it no questions asked.  The salesmen will try to up-sell you on the extended warranty stuff.  I hate all the up-selling more than the freight and set-up games.

On my new Triumph, I got upsold and paid for the Prepaid Service for the first 6 services, along with the Tire Damage Warranty.

The prepaid service is a good idea IF you keep the bike a few years, especially on one like the Triumph Trophy SE where every bit of plastic and the gas tank has to come off to replace the air filter, and valve adjustment is via shim under bucket, and you want the dealer to do all that.   After the first 3 service intervals, it's paid for, and the rest are essentially free.   They can do that because a large percentage of people that buy the service don't keep the bike long enough to take advantage of it, and it's not transferable.

The Tire Warranty is a pain in the butt, and I wouldn't do it again.   It's only valid if you take the bike to the shop WITH the flat tire on it, and the dealer calls the warranty people and answers 400 questions that all assume that you are trying to cheat on the warranty.    If you take the tire off the bike before it gets to the fixing dealer, that's it, no payout.   

Live and learn ...

Lannis

[TN Mark]

I've dealt with Southern Honda Powersports in Chattanooga.  High volume dealer. They don't add on any fees except tax and title. The price you see on the tag is the price you pay.  Of course, they factor in everything so as to come up with a price that makes them a little money on each unit.    Don't expect them to come off their price though.  I priced a Honda Pioneer SxS with them about a year ago.  Offered them $500 less than their asking price, they told me no, so I walked.  Worked out to my advantage when they had a model year clearance sale at the end of the year that knocked $1000 off their original price. I paid it no questions asked.  The salesmen will try to up-sell you on the extended warranty stuff.  I hate all the up-selling more than the freight and set-up games.

I was at Southern Honda two days ago. They're one of the largest Honda dealers by volume in the country. They're rarely undersold on price and yes, they have a no surprises pricing policy. People buy from them from many parts of the US. I had some time to kill before my car was ready to be picked up a few miles away.

Plus about all I use to clean my bike is the Honda or the Original brand spray polish. They did have a drop dead gorgeous black and white late model Victory Hammer in the used bike section. It only has 2200 miles on it as well. I had to force myself to leave before I wouldn't be able to stop myself from talking to a sales rep. 

Destination charges? Yea, it's a silly practice. That's why I always ask the OTD price and negotiate from that point. Knowing that some items that make up the OTD price are fixed like the sales tax rate. But as has been stated, very few other products you purchase anywhere have a destination charge added to them. For good reason, because it's a silly practice and people get upset by it. 

Merry Christmas everyone.

[Guzzidad]

   I had to buy a new car for my wife today. My old car developed a problem that would have cost nearly $3000 to fix. While negotiating with the salesman I gave him a figure I was willing to spend, out the door. After a few back and forth between us and his "manager" we settled on my price. They worked in all those extra fees on my out the door price including dealer fees and TTL. Bottom line, first is my wife is extremely happy and I think she is just a little impressed with my negotiating, second, we got a pretty fair deal. It's a 2018 model car and the dealers need to move these cars off the lots this time of year. Maybe I could have got out of there a couple of dollars less, but not much less. And Geez, we were there nearly 8 hours. This whole process should have been done in 4 hours.

[Bulldog9]

Water is wet and new motor vehicle sales have shipping and destination fees. Most cars come fully assembled, most bikes in crates.

Not sure what you guys are #itching about. Sure some dealers will try to gouge you on these fees, and you can try to discount around them, but they shouldn't be a surprise.

Most dealers will cut this fee  when trying to clear out old inventory.

[blu guzz]

Here's an old joke with a lot of basis in truth:
"How do you make a million dollars in the motorcycle business, you start with two million". 

Having been in the car business myself, I have to say that as a buyer, you need to dispense with all of the emotional baggage and angst about things like dealer prep and doc. fees.  Just ask for the bottom line, "what's it going to cost me to ride this thing off the lot?"  Then you make a simple decision, yes or no.  No need to get hot and bothered about it.  When Harley's were hot, once in 1992 and again in 2006, I wanted one (irrational, I admit), so the local dealers in the cities I lived in at those times would not meet the price I wanted, in fact, I could go on and on about those dealers with issues having nothing to do with price.  In both cases, in two different cities, I found dealers about 100 miles out of town that would sell me Harleys at the prices I wanted to pay.  Don't get mad, get busy.
As far as making a profit, I am lucky enough to live close to a very good Guzzi dealer and can observe close up that you have to be a true hustler (in the good sense, very hard working, honest) to make a living.  The employees expect a check each week whether you have sold any bikes or not.  We are going into our cold season and sales will be pretty slow for him.  Still, everyone needs to get paid.  Please try to support your local dealer or next spring, they might just be gone.

[Kev m]

Here's my take.

1. There's nothing deceptive about it. 99% of motor vehicle dealers advertise th MSRP. If one advertises an out the door price instead he gets no traffic because he will seem unusually high. But the buying public knows there are other costs/fees and they are free to attempt to negotiate them. But the MSRP IS STILL THE MSRP.

2. The frieght and prep fees ARE REAL and "legitimate" but as I said negotiable. And if a dealer wants to be competitive they may have to take some of it out of their margin. That's up to them. Some get sweetheart deals from OEM's on MSRP due to volume and have more margin to play with.

We're currently buying a new Guzzi from a dealer who gets such a sweetheart deal they advertise an MSRP that is thousands below what most other dealers can sell for. Then they add NO FREIGHT OR PREP to that price. They even said on the phone it takes their tech about an hour to prep it and they feel they should absorb that cost. We can argue all day whether a Guzzi dealer SHOULD take more time to prep a bike, but we also know 99% of them don't.

[Sykestone8886]

I bought a new Guzzi from a dealer in MD. When I first saw the price and after talking on the phone I said what's the catch, the price seemed way too low. I was told no catch.$100 doc fee,gave me the out the door price and I bought it. The most hassle free transaction I ever made. Kudos to that Dealer.

[Bulldog9]

That's where I bought my Stornello. I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop lol. I too was shocked with the $100 doc fee, and expected a 'hussle" at delivery for something, but was a great experience. I've referred 5-6 people there for Aprilia, Guzzi and the other powesports toys they have. 

If I ever buy a new Guzzi again, if I don't have my own shop, will buy from them.

I bought a new Guzzi from a dealer in MD. When I first saw the price and after talking on the phone I said what's the catch, the price seemed way too low. I was told no catch.$100 doc fee,gave me the out the door price and I bought it. The most hassle free transaction I ever made. Kudos to that Dealer.

[Noguzznoglory]

Since all the ads say “plus......” and life experience tells me those fees are going to be there I always ask what will be added to the price when they quote it. Almost all the posts on this thread acknowledge they know the fees will be there.

[ff73148]

I've enjoyed this thread and everyone's perception on buying cars and motorcycles. I've worked at both car and bike dealers. I learned very quickly that there are costs in running those businesses. Car dealers want to move units because there are manufacturer's rebates based on volume. That is why the best time to buy a car is at the end of the month, end of the quarter or at the end of the year. Motorcycle dealers don't have that luxury. There is no real money to be made on selling new bikes, prep fees, freight, shipping, etc. Motorcycle dealers would rather sell used bikes as there is more money in it. All dealers make money on service, parts and accessories. They need to keep their customers in house to make money. The only other way to make money is on back end products (extended warranties, service contracts, wheel protection, etc). Back end products are very negotiable and both the dealer and the salesperson make money that way. I have no problem supporting a dealer as long as he is fair with his pricing because I want to see that dealer stay in business. Just my two cents.

[Lannis]

I've dealt with Southern Honda Powersports in Chattanooga.  High volume dealer. They don't add on any fees except tax and title. The price you see on the tag is the price you pay.  Of course, they factor in everything so as to come up with a price that makes them a little money on each unit.    Don't expect them to come off their price though.

And see, that's the way everything else in anyone's store is sold.  Furniture, appliances, lawn equipment, any big-ticket items.   Dealer figures his cost, figures a margin that will allow him to make a living, and puts it on the tag.  You pay that.

There's no nonsense about MSRP, even if EVERYONE does it.   There's no big world-wide advertising campaign in the magazines about how this bike is a low low $4,995, when it's really NOT; that's really the FOB factory price, which means nothing to the buyer.   

That saves all the "making an offer" on a new bike, and advertising bogus prices for a new bike, and all that.   

Sure, we know it's coming, and everyone does it, but it's like there's a requirement that the dealer is expected to give you a little kick in the arse when you walk in the door, because the manufacturer says he has to .... ?   It just ticks you off.

Lannis

[Cam3512]

I bought a new Guzzi from a dealer in MD. When I first saw the price and after talking on the phone I said what's the catch, the price seemed way too low. I was told no catch.$100 doc fee,gave me the out the door price and I bought it. The most hassle free transaction I ever made. Kudos to that Dealer.

Kudos to you (and several here) for getting a low ball price on the bike from that dealer.  Let's hope it was prepped correctly and you can do ALL your own work.  If you think their mechanics will know squat after eventually making it to the 1 week "Guzzi School", you're  mistaken.