Are all tech updates good tech?

[faffi]

Since I always write way too much that many cannot be bothered to read, I will begin by saying; please reply with your own comments based on the topic title 

Personally, I would not mind having been technologically stuck in 1985. Just not having Internet addiction alone would have been worth sticking with what virtually all of us had back then.

But let us look into motorcycles, since this is what most of us are on this forum for. In addition to getting one of many Internet addiction fixes, of course.

I presume the majority will agree that having automatic oil pumps and ignition timing advances and valve gear under cover to be Really Good Stuff. Also, pneumatic tires offering decent adhesion to the road will be appreciated by the masses, I feel safe to say, along with brakes you can rely on to get stopped in time. Same with reliable electrical systems like alternators, regulators and rectifiers, good lights and keyed switch, although there may be someone disagreeing already.

More debatable could be issues like points vs electronic ignition systems, carburetors vs fuel injection, disc vs drum brakes, ABS vs manually controlled brakes, power assisted brakes vs directly operated brakes, indicators vs hand waving, radial vs bias bly tires, tubed vs tubeless tires, twin vs dual shock absorbers, conventional vs cartridge forks, active vs basic suspension, manual vs automatic, preset options or even non-adjustable suspension systems, traction control systems in all of their iterations, power maps for the engine, heated grips, seats and clothing. And more.

Typically, but not always, automatic systems are more convenient to use, and harder to diagnose and repair. Also, automatic systems can at times prevent you from obtaining exactly what you want. Digital systems, for instance, are usually more abrupt than analogue systems. And so on.

Here are some of the technologies I do not want: ABS brakes, traction control, ride modes, active suspension, linked brakes, automatic indicator turnoff, variable cam timing, variable inlet length, cams that must be removed to adjust valve clearances.

And some I do want: Center stand, electronic ignition, balancer axles, hydraulic valve lifters, LED lights, air inflatable seats, adjustable pegs/levers, analogue instruments, tubeless tires, cast wheels.

[Zenermaniac]

After having to replace the ECU on my Roamer I wish I could go back to carbs and points. There’s too much electronics and gimmickry on bikes today. In decades past if something broke down it was easier to work on or even cobble something together to get you home. I once had a coil go bad and I duct taped a car coil to the frame and ran some scrap wire and it got me home. Can’t do that on my V9. I prefer tubeless tires but looks-wise I’d rather have spokes,  even though in 50 years I’ve only had one flat (hope I didn’t just jinx myself). No bike should be sold without a center stand and an adequate headlight. I’m talking to you, Aprilia! Hydraulic lifters would be nice but I do find adjusting my valves kind of satisfying. I’ll never own a bike with shims, again. Adjustable controls and foot pegs should be the norm as well as tapered roller bearings in the neck and zerk fittings to keep them greased. Give me gravity fed carbs and air cooling any day. I want a bike to be as mechanically and electrically as simple as can be. I should have been born much earlier, I think.

[SIR REAL ED]

Since I always write way too much that many cannot be bothered to read, I will begin by saying; please reply with your own comments based on the topic title 

Personally, I would not mind having been technologically stuck in 1985. Just not having Internet addiction alone would have been worth sticking with what virtually all of us had back then.

But let us look into motorcycles, since this is what most of us are on this forum for. In addition to getting one of many Internet addiction fixes, of course.

I presume the majority will agree that having automatic oil pumps and ignition timing advances and valve gear under cover to be Really Good Stuff. Also, pneumatic tires offering decent adhesion to the road will be appreciated by the masses, I feel safe to say, along with brakes you can rely on to get stopped in time. Same with reliable electrical systems like alternators, regulators and rectifiers, good lights and keyed switch, although there may be someone disagreeing already.

More debatable could be issues like points vs electronic ignition systems, carburetors vs fuel injection, disc vs drum brakes, ABS vs manually controlled brakes, power assisted brakes vs directly operated brakes, indicators vs hand waving, radial vs bias bly tires, tubed vs tubeless tires, twin vs dual shock absorbers, conventional vs cartridge forks, active vs basic suspension, manual vs automatic, preset options or even non-adjustable suspension systems, traction control systems in all of their iterations, power maps for the engine, heated grips, seats and clothing. And more.

Typically, but not always, automatic systems are more convenient to use, and harder to diagnose and repair. Also, automatic systems can at times prevent you from obtaining exactly what you want. Digital systems, for instance, are usually more abrupt than analogue systems. And so on.

Here are some of the technologies I do not want: ABS brakes, traction control, ride modes, active suspension, linked brakes, automatic indicator turnoff, variable cam timing, variable inlet length, cams that must be removed to adjust valve clearances.

And some I do want: Center stand, electronic ignition, balancer axles, hydraulic valve lifters, LED lights, air inflatable seats, adjustable pegs/levers, analogue instruments, tubeless tires, cast wheels.

An excellent summary of why so many prefer older bikes.  You can make the upgrades you desire much more easily than trying to remove the modern tech you don't want.

[tommy2cyl]

I can do without most of the tech but a few that are non negotiable on my touring motorcycle are:
1. Cruise Control
2. Tubeless wheels/tires
3. Heated grips 

I have never had electric adjustable windscreen or heated seat but I can see how that could be desirable.  Having ABS might seem
unnecessary until you have it save your butt in a panic situation and /or wet conditions. A lot of the electronic wizardry of multiple
riding modes, adaptive cruise, electronic suspension etc. I have no interest in .  The cost to diagnose and repair these ultra high
tech options are reasons why keeping it relatively simple is preferable to me.  Plus every option adds weight.

[AJ Huff]

When I was a kid my dad would tell me about the superiority of points (you could keep a spare ready to go in the glove box)..Drum brakes were good because you could ride them and drive off the water! Fuel injection was needlessly complicated and susceptible to blockage, carbs so much better. Power window and door locks were dangerous!!!

Ya'll just sound like.my dad. Back then I thought it was stupid, today I think it's stupid. I like all the improvements in technology.

-AJ

[SmithSwede]

Faffi, I used to think like that.   But I’ve changed my mind.   Riding a bike is already a dangerous hobby, and I appreciate all the modern tech that makes it safer. 

I would no longer own a bike that doesn’t have ABS.  That tech would absolutely have saved me a broken ankle and a wrecked Guzzi when I hit a suspected patch on spilled diesel near a gas station as it was just beginning to rain.   With modern ABS, there is literally no performance downside and huge potential upside. 

I would also no longer own a bike that doesn’t have modern radial, tubeless tires.

Or what about chain drive?  I’ve come to prefer a modern O-ring chain to a belt or shaft drive.  Admittedly it may not seem like “high tech” to add O-rings to a drive chain, but that one improvement made shaft drives obsolete, at least for my purposes. 

But, to each his own.   I still very much admire riders using 30 or 40 year old bikes, who keep them running and enjoy riding them.  These are the bikes I’ll look at when at a rally—the old ones.  It is just that I’m not personally interested in owning them. 

[John A]

Technology is fine if its reliable and doesn't come with an intrusive "nanny " system. I have a '15 F3S CanAm Spyder that I like. The reason I was only interested in this model is that it has the least intrusive system than what is on the other models. If I'm out having fun on back roads and ride it like riding a Guzzi in a sporting manner, the stinking thing goes into a limp home mode until I stop, take the key out and away from the bike for a few minutes. That system is permanently on from the factory. It's got enough power and handles well enough to have fun on, but it's been castrated.

[faffi]

After having to replace the ECU on my Roamer I wish I could go back to carbs and points. There’s too much electronics and gimmickry on bikes today. In decades past if something broke down it was easier to work on or even cobble something together to get you home. I once had a coil go bad and I duct taped a car coil to the frame and ran some scrap wire and it got me home. Can’t do that on my V9. I prefer tubeless tires but looks-wise I’d rather have spokes,  even though in 50 years I’ve only had one flat (hope I didn’t just jinx myself). No bike should be sold without a center stand and an adequate headlight. I’m talking to you, Aprilia! Hydraulic lifters would be nice but I do find adjusting my valves kind of satisfying. I’ll never own a bike with shims, again. Adjustable controls and foot pegs should be the norm as well as tapered roller bearings in the neck and zerk fittings to keep them greased. Give me gravity fed carbs and air cooling any day. I want a bike to be as mechanically and electrically as simple as can be. I should have been born much earlier, I think.

There is little doubt that electronic ignition systems of the past 40 or 50 years have been utter reliable in general. But if they fail, you tend to be stuck. I managed to get home in a similar manner to your failed coil when a condenser broke down on my XS500. In a very small town, I managed to find some fine emerald paper to smooth the burned points, find a condenser off a Mitsubishi that would wire in, and be on my way. However, I will admit that the tiny chance of EI breaking down is worth the risk of being stranded compared to fiddling with points these days.

[faffi]

Faffi, I used to think like that.   But I’ve changed my mind.   Riding a bike is already a dangerous hobby, and I appreciate all the modern tech that makes it safer. 

I would no longer own a bike that doesn’t have ABS.  That tech would absolutely have saved me a broken ankle and a wrecked Guzzi when I hit a suspected patch on spilled diesel near a gas station as it was just beginning to rain.   With modern ABS, there is literally no performance downside and huge potential upside. 

I would also no longer own a bike that doesn’t have modern radial, tubeless tires.

Or what about chain drive?  I’ve come to prefer a modern O-ring chain to a belt or shaft drive.  Admittedly it may not seem like “high tech” to add O-rings to a drive chain, but that one improvement made shaft drives obsolete, at least for my purposes. 

But, to each his own.   I still very much admire riders using 30 or 40 year old bikes, who keep them running and enjoy riding them.  These are the bikes I’ll look at when at a rally—the old ones.  It is just that I’m not personally interested in owning them.

I began riding in 1980, and ABS would possibly have saved me from one crash. ABS would also likely have caused me to have several crashes when I was younger, because it come in far too soon on most bikes, usually in the worst possible moments. The ABS system on my son's MT-07 is fine for riding, since I rarely ride unless the weather is good, because I can do stoppies and even flop over forward without the ABS cutting in. Most bikes are not like that. Instead, the ABS will start working whenever the system believe the rear wheel is about to lift, which often can be just because the road is bumpy. And suddenly you add 5 or 10 yards to your stopping distance, which can be the difference between life and death. And as the surface become slippery, your braking distances really begin to be longer with ABS. If you search YouTube, you will find a test on gravel where ABS make the braking distance four - 4! - times longer than no ABS.

But yes, if you do hit a slick surface unexpectedly, ABS can save you. Which is why I have kept it on my V9. But only because I no longer deliberately brake at the last moment.

Other than that, I can fully understand and appreciate why a lot of riders - and drivers - love the current possibilities with modern technology. It is just that for me personally, I do not want most of them. Primarily because they add complexity.

[ff73148]

At 75 years old I want all the technology I can get on a bike. Ride modes, ABS and traction control are my friends. My ribs still hurt from the high side I did in 1999.

[SIR REAL ED]

As Gramma used to say "If you never try it, you will never miss it!"

How to stay happy with your current motorcycle(s)?  Never ride another bike you are not willing to buy!!

[mechanicsavant]

After a career fixing other people’s vehicles, I wanna turn the key & go ! Yea , I do my pre-flight , circle check . What ever ya want to call it . Obviously I’m on the pro-technology side of this discussion 

[kingoffleece]

Who uses ABS on gravel?

[faffi]

People with vehicles where you cannot turn off the ABS?

[Huzo]

A lot of the fun I had in the 70’s and 80’s was upgrading the deficiencies that my bike came with.
Fitting electronic ignition where points unused to be.
Putting twin disc front ends on drum brake road bikes.
Upgrading to halogen lights…etc.
I liked having my own “signature” on my bike…(Nothing’s changed..)

Where I draw the line with technological upgrades, is when it takes away my command judgement.
Non cancellable ABS.
Adaptive cruise control and such. I don’t want technology telling me what’s “best” for me.

[Frenchfrog]

And for me there is the probable impossibility for a home fix when it goes south too. If i were a rich as Cresus that would not be a problem...

[michaell32]

I love technology but IMO it peaked in the 2005-2010 era.  After that it's become a lot of troublesome gimmicks that I would like to get rid of when they act up.  To make it worse, these problems add a lot of cost to owning the bike since corporations are making repairs even more difficult for us DIY type of people.  An example is my Honda Insight.  While I like TPMS overall, replacing the sensors are more expensive and complicated than it should be.  When the battery dies you have to replace the entire sensor instead of a simple battery swap.  The sensors were only $35 each however they wanted $170 to reprogram the computer for the new serial numbers.  I ended up buying an aftermarket programmer for $80 that's been sitting in my tool box for the last two years with no other purpose.  Motorcycles are following this trend which is why I bought a DR650.  I don't want a corporation to have a monopoly on repair.  As tempting as the V85 is, the guys post about his bricked ECU is a reminder that sometimes less is more.

[Wayne Orwig]

There is tech for functionality, and there is tech for tech 'points'

For example, the fuel injection on my 2004 EV is pretty simple. The ECU can likely be replaced with a unit from a dozen other vehicles, but might require a simple reflash. Fuel injectors and pump will be around for a reasonable time.
BUT, the dashboard on my V85TT. If it dies in 5 years, that may scrap the bike. It is fairly unique to that vehicle and I don't trust it. Too many whiz bangs there.

[Alfetta]

So what tech a rider wants or likes will be different for each rider.  I prefer the most simple solution, and things that are easily field repairable.
My BIG gripe with todays tech are thing that are mandated for reasons of "safety" that are in themselves not safe.  My V7 suffers from one of these issues.
 
There is a cross road that i take some mornings on my way to work, this intersection can be difficult to cross due to am traffic, and usually requires a bit of throttle aggression, unless you want to spend fifteen minutes waiting for a large hole. If I don't remember to turn off the traction control, the crossing becomes rather scarry as the motor dies halfway thru the crossing !  NOT SAFE... for a safety feature !  (why Guzzi decided to kill the motor over retarding the timing or disabling one cylinder is beyond me )

IMHO:
Single carb > Fuel injection
Fuel injection > multi carbs
Points > electronic ignition (only due to field repairability ) otherwise the inverse.

Devices that override user (ABS/Trac/etc..)  Owner settings should be retained and not returned to a default