Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

General Category => Bike Builds, Rebuilds And Restorations Only => Topic started by: SED on July 27, 2017, 09:48:33 AM

Title: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on July 27, 2017, 09:48:33 AM
Look what followed me home...


(http://thumb.ibb.co/bYLXx5/IMG_0531sm.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bYLXx5)


It was advertised locally before we visited Mandello. I don't know anything about old Guzzis and don't need another bike, but after seeing so many of them running around there I decided to take the plunge.

Bacon slicer in Mandello del Lario (there was another slicer and a Galleto in the same spot)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/b9dGqQ/IMG_0019.jpg) (http://ibb.co/b9dGqQ)


It was advertised as a 1933 Model 157 (which doesn't exist). It's probably a 500cc GTV (GT = Grand Turismo spring frame, V = Valvole hemi-head) but not sure of the year, 1934- 1940? GTW is very similar with higher compression engine.  Seller said it was a runner, and indeed we got it to run, but it was so difficult to start and so out out of adjustment that it was not really ridable. I shifted into 3 gears up and down the driveway and didn't hear any terminal noises so decided to go for it.

Immediate problems are decompressor not working and bad gas(makes starting near impossible), fuel taps flowing very little gas, incredibly stiff clutch and throttle, broken brakes (don't stop)  :grin:, uncertain timing and oil flow.  It needs a lot of TLC and I love a project.

Carlo came over and we pulled the tank and drained the gas - the most incredibly evil smelling stuff  :shocked: 

(http://thumb.ibb.co/nM3cx5/IMG_0543.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nM3cx5)


We rinsed out the tank and were getting so much sediment and even chunks that we threw in a bunch of screws and did the shake. Took turns shaking and dumping the debris, which included chunks too large to fall out the filler neck - they looked like dirt. Then rinsed it again and dried it with compressed air and a hair drier.  After drying over night there were more loose chunks so I did the screw shake 3 more times and took a picture of what came out - this is AFTER cleaning it the day before!

(http://thumb.ibb.co/gZirqQ/IMG_0548.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gZirqQ)


Blew out the dust and sealed the tank and sloshed in some Ospho to kill the rust.  Let the Ospho sit for a day, sloshing occasionally, then dry for a couple days. 

(http://thumb.ibb.co/dPt5jk/IMG_0552.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dPt5jk)

russian photo host (http://imgbb.com/)
Russian Photo Host??!

There was still some loose scale so did the screw shake one more time and blew out the dust.  It now looks like this inside.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/fHz9c5/IMG_0564.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fHz9c5)


Lots more to do so will post more later.

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on July 27, 2017, 09:54:05 AM
 :drool: Green with envy.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: pehayes on July 27, 2017, 10:25:27 AM
So, browse over and join the "guzzi-singles" forum at Google Groups.  Lots of practical advice there.

I'm currently touring the French Alps with a Falcone club.  Reports later.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: JeffOlson on July 27, 2017, 10:46:44 AM
Wow! Very cool!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on July 27, 2017, 10:53:41 AM
So, browse over and join the "guzzi-singles" forum at Google Groups.  Lots of practical advice there.

I'm currently touring the French Alps with a Falcone club.  Reports later.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/guzzi-singles

There's also a Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1435504550042601/
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: jas67 on July 27, 2017, 12:21:34 PM
VERY cool!    I think I remember seeing that on CL or eBay.   
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Sheepdog on July 27, 2017, 03:02:04 PM
I love those old bikes. Short of a concours restoration, that's about as good a find as you could make. Now you'll need a pudding-bowl helmet and an oilskin coat!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Psychopasta on July 27, 2017, 03:06:15 PM
Wonderful project! Looking forward to seeing what happens  :popcorn:

- Pasta
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: RinkRat II on July 27, 2017, 06:22:32 PM
 Man o man SED, she's beautiful. Older resto? Original patina? We gotta know the story!!!  Congrats!
   
  Paul B. :boozing:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: JoeW on July 27, 2017, 08:34:48 PM
Liking the bacon slicer, picked up a 52 Falcone over the winter. Can't wait to get it on the road.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: ccoli on July 27, 2017, 09:10:59 PM

(http://thumb.ibb.co/cenfkQ/2013_04_26_17_55_52.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cenfkQ)

Here's My '32 Sport 15.... older than yours and definitely more patina.
Waiting on a rear sprocket to have her running again.
Hope you enjoy yours as much as I do mine.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on July 28, 2017, 12:12:44 AM
Wow, great responses, thanks! 

Patrick, I joined the google groups and you've already helped me out!  Can't wait to hear about your trip through the Alps.

CColi, Great looking 15 Spot (as opposed to 1100 Spot).  I think the one of the bikes in Mandello was a Sport 15:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/cyAsh5/IMG_0020.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cyAsh5)


RinkRat, I think it's a cheapy cosmetic resto - the bike was disassembled and painted except for the wheels and the spring boxes and stand were left on the frame.  The paint is nice with very cool hand-painted pinstriping, but over spotty welding sputtering solder and cracking bondo. Very little money seems to have been spent for a mechanical restoration or maintenance (lots of clapped out parts, but the only replacement part I've found is a banjo fitting). Non-stock fasteners are metric, so most of this work was probably done years ago in Europe.  Fortunately these old Guzzis seem to be very tough!

Looks like the bike was crashed and front end parts replaced.  The front rim is in much better condition than the rear and the lower left side of the forks is not true. Inside the tank looks like it was smacked by the fork, pegs are bent and the front wheel appears to track to the right of the rear. Oil tank also dented and repaired on the left side. Presumably the bike hit something, requiring replacement of the front rim and repair of the tanks and new paint and then sold on.

The investigation continues...





Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on July 28, 2017, 12:46:16 AM
First for me was to be able to kick the bike over so...

Because the decompressor didn't work people jumped on the kickstarter so hard they bent the center stand, the kick start lever and the kick starter shaft - on an engine with 5:1 compression! (it does have good compression)

Starting was made more difficult because the kick sprocket was 60* off so you could not get a full swing.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/gYtpUk/IMG_0537crop.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gYtpUk)


Drilled out the 6 rivets and re-riveted the sproket in the correct location:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/mpf3pk/IMG_0554.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mpf3pk)


clamped the kick lever and shaft in the vice and bent them back true with a cheater bar.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/ihLxFQ/IMG_0566.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ihLxFQ)


Center stand splayed out so much it let the rear tire sit on the ground and the bike lean over.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/h8WF25/IMG_0553.jpg) (http://ibb.co/h8WF25)


Stand bolts and lock-nut had been left loose so long that the threads in the frame were worn out and the stand eyes ovaled. Tapped the frame for a larger bolt on the right, and cut a shim on my Grandpa's lathe for the left:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/dR6tpk/IMG_0555.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dR6tpk)


Used MAPP gas to heat the stand and straighten it, then gave it a nice coat of Rustoleum. (A LOT of time tweaking and test fitting.)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/icwMaQ/IMG_0569.jpg) (http://ibb.co/icwMaQ)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on July 28, 2017, 10:21:31 AM
Given that the fuel tank was so dirty a carb clean was in order.  The seller and I had a brief stack fire (starting fluid does not replace a working decompressor...) and there may have been more fires because the carb was black. Note the wire around the top cap in the photo:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/ivtq25/IMG_0503.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ivtq25)


Pulling the carb apart revealed a broken main jet (how does this happen???) and a lot of rusty crud in the float bowl.  The carb is a Dellorto MC26F and is about 80 years old!  It is very similar to the Amal remote float carbs, but the float chamber is part of the carb body so doesn't come loose on while riding :rolleyes:  It also has a replaceable pilot jet and seems to have a jet needle available in different tapers (this one is marked L5). The Dellorto seems way more sophisticated than the Amal, but don't know how well it works yet.

Soaked carb in Simple Green (Carlo's tip) and scrubbed with toothbrush.

Except for the main jet (Mikuni large round head), I've not found replacement parts for the carb so if anyone knows, please let me know.

The top cap was stuck to the carb body with some sticky goo as though they were trying to seal the threads and cutting the wire around it revealed it's purpose.  I should have known...

(http://thumb.ibb.co/js26aQ/IMG_0567.jpg) (http://ibb.co/js26aQ)


Put the cap back together, but the threads were found to be stripped from wear (explains the sticky goo). I searched the web and called the Dellorto importer, but couldn't find a replacement or determine if later tops are the same (40mm thread) so decided to try making one on my Grandfather's 1944 lathe which required me to figure out cutting threads.  :boozing:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/ez3yN5/IMG_2587.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ez3yN5)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/grrJN5/IMG_2588.jpg) (http://ibb.co/grrJN5)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/jgSQ25/IMG_2594.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jgSQ25)


I found some UHMW, cut the OD and ID with hole saws and then practiced cutting threads. Haven't figured out how to index the cut to make multiple passes on threads so just took it all at one cut - UHMW is soft. And the old lathe won't cut metric threads so used the closest - 20/inch.  And it worked!  :afro: 
Looks like a Santa hat!

(http://thumb.ibb.co/nMTMaQ/IMG_0573sm.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nMTMaQ)


UHMW is soft and doesn't like heat above 200*F, but this will work until I find the right part.

Cleaned the taps and resoldered the T fitting: (GUZZI is engraved on the older tap)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/n6zmaQ/IMG_0576.jpg) (http://ibb.co/n6zmaQ)


Away for the weekend so more work next week.



Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: smdl on July 28, 2017, 10:35:24 AM
Subscribed.  Really enjoying this, so far, and appreciate your resourcefulness!

 :popcorn:

Cheers,
Shaun
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: canuck750 on July 29, 2017, 10:31:13 AM
Great thread,  :1:love the bike, wish I had one!

Really looking forward to hearing about your impressions of riding it.

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: twowings on July 29, 2017, 01:27:45 PM
Ultimate coolness! Looking forward to the next installment.... :thumb:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on July 31, 2017, 11:35:14 AM
Clean out your oil tanks or they could look like this.  Lots more lumpy black goo in the bottom of the tank too.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/nik6ek/IMG_0579.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nik6ek)


Rinsed several times with gasoline. It didn't get all the crud so had to add the screws and shake it like the gas tank.  More rinsing until nice and clean.

Roller bearings need very little oil but Guzzis have nice efficient rotary oil pumps that run at crankshaft speed. (Ariels used piston pumps run off the cam so give a little squirt of oil every other rotation of the crank. Somehow it works.)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/mtcrC5/IMG_0585.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mtcrC5)


The pump is actually two pumps - a gear pump under the gear and an impeller pump on the outside. The gear pump feeds oil from the oil tank through the upper tube into the end of the crankshaft. An anti-sumping valve is located under the cover (orange paint).

(http://thumb.ibb.co/dKi3QQ/IMG_0603.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dKi3QQ)


The workshop manual shows taking apart the pump for inspection. Not sure what I could do if I needed 80 year old parts, but wanted make sure there was nothing terrible inside.  The gear is on a taper and I did not have an appropriate puller so could not take the gear pump side apart. Instead it got a gasoline rinse and a flush with fresh oil before confirming that it would pump oil and lift the anti-sumping valve.

The impeller side pumps oil from the sump to the oil tank and was easier to take apart:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/mEOL5Q/IMG_0605.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mEOL5Q)


A look at the impeller revealed that someone had installed a spring that was too long and too skinny.  Because of the poor fit it had kinked and worn so badly it was about to fail completely.  I found a pen spring of the appropriate diameter and cut it to length. Second picture shows clean parts ready for reassembly.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/g2Cuzk/IMG_0606.jpg) (http://ibb.co/g2Cuzk)  (http://thumb.ibb.co/kwv3s5/IMG_0607.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kwv3s5)


I was hoping that, despite the neglect, this bike might not have been messed with mechanically, but if somebody took the time to take apart the oil pump and install such a poorly fitting spring there may be all kinds of horrible bodges inside. Guess I'll find out what (and fix it) when it breaks... :tongue:   Until then  :bike-037:!

Flushed the sump with some cheap 30wt delivered through the vent and then made a new gasket for the pump.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/mvXPX5/IMG_0587.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mvXPX5)  (http://thumb.ibb.co/hq5YQQ/IMG_0610.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hq5YQQ)


Connected the oil lines - one of the flares was badly crushed by over tightening and I've attempted to push it back into shape, but I'll be looking for a source of metric flare fittings...

(http://thumb.ibb.co/jcKtQQ/IMG_0631.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jcKtQQ)


Replaced the rubber cushions for the oil tank and installed the tank on the frame. 
A banjo fitting to the oil tank was badly crushed. The sides were pushed in forming a perfect recess for viton o-rings.  :cool:  It worked so well I used o-rings on the other banjo too

(http://thumb.ibb.co/bF2N25/IMG_0616.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bF2N25)


Dumped about a pint of oil in the sump through the vent, put 1.5 quarts in the oil tank, and spun the engine over and oil returned to the tank - success!  (The picture shows how close the intake manifold and oil tank sit - they have to be installed together - so I also cleaned up the intake flange and made a new gasket for it.)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/iA70pk/IMG_0629.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iA70pk)


More later! 






Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Psychopasta on July 31, 2017, 01:49:58 PM
Hey SED,

Great report, thanks! When you say 'spun the engine over', was that by hand or is the engine a runner?

- P 
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on July 31, 2017, 02:23:10 PM
Hey SED,

Great report, thanks! When you say 'spun the engine over', was that by hand or is the engine a runner?

- P

Kickstarter, I'd guess.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on July 31, 2017, 02:50:34 PM
I'm really enjoying this thread, I can only dream of finding a bacon slicer.


Sent from my shoe phone!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on July 31, 2017, 02:56:02 PM
Kickstarter, I'd guess.

Thanks PPasta.  Yes - Charlie's right.  But easy enough to "kick" it over with my arm when using the decompressor.

Charlie, I finally joined the facebook group too - Thanks!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on July 31, 2017, 02:57:59 PM
I'm really enjoying this thread, I can only dream of finding a bacon slicer.


Sent from my shoe phone!

Thanks Roy.  it's gotten to be a big distraction...  :grin:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on July 31, 2017, 03:09:29 PM
I was fortunate to have this '68 Falcone NT in my care for several years. Great fun to ride...  :bike-037:

(http://antietamclassiccycle.com/0e4f1350.jpg)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on July 31, 2017, 03:21:12 PM
I was fortunate to have this '68 Falcone NT in my care for several years. Great fun to ride...  :bike-037:

(http://antietamclassiccycle.com/0e4f1350.jpg)

A great looking bike Charlie.  I'd noticed it in your avatar, better to see a larger picture.  It is surprisingly similar to the bike I'm working on (and much nicer condition!). What does the NT stand for?
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Dukedesmo on July 31, 2017, 04:14:06 PM
Nice  :thumb:


The boss at my first job (back in 1980) had a Guzzi single, 500 Falcone IIRC. I was intrigued by the exposed 'bacon slicer' flywheel, always thought it was a cool bike.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on July 31, 2017, 04:43:16 PM
A great looking bike Charlie.  I'd noticed it in your avatar, better to see a larger picture.  It is surprisingly similar to the bike I'm working on (and much nicer condition!). What does the NT stand for?

Nuovo Turismo. At one time, there were two different Falcones: Sport and Turismo. Eventually the Turismo was discontinued, but towards the end of "original" Falcone production, Guzzi built the Nuovo Turismo (not to be confused with the later Nuovo Falcone).
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on August 01, 2017, 08:33:34 AM
Excellent thread. Attaboy.. :smiley:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 02, 2017, 10:50:26 AM
The gear lever was removed to get access to the oil pump and was found to be very sloppy on it's pivot. 

(http://thumb.ibb.co/h5N1x5/IMG_0529crop.jpg) (http://ibb.co/h5N1x5)



A previous bodger had rolled some shim-stock in there to try to take up the slop.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/kXPmVQ/IMG_0624.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kXPmVQ)


Much of the wear was on the pivot pin so I decided to install a bushing to take up the wear and enlarge the OD. I bought the appropriate sized brass tube and machined the pin to fit.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/htCOAQ/IMG_0619.jpg) (http://ibb.co/htCOAQ)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/euQX4k/IMG_0621.jpg) (http://ibb.co/euQX4k)


Parts ready for assembly. The spring washer is in the original parts list.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/bFeyc5/IMG_0623.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bFeyc5)


Pulled the positive stop mechanism apart to check and lube. Strangely the pin that locates it (arrow) had been ground down - why?!

(http://thumb.ibb.co/ivk1VQ/IMG_0625mod.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ivk1VQ)


Gear shifter reassembled with much less play.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/eJFkqQ/IMG_0627.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eJFkqQ)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Matteo on August 02, 2017, 11:42:16 AM
Nice Sed, looking forward to the obligatory mountain photos  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 03, 2017, 11:01:50 PM
Nice Sed, looking forward to the obligatory mountain photos  :popcorn:
That may take a while...  especially if it needs a mag rebuild or new carb.  I'm just trying to get it running to find out what I bought!  :cheesy:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 03, 2017, 11:26:03 PM
The oil tank leaks - ARG!!!  Explains the oilyness of the cylinder when I first saw it.


(http://thumb.ibb.co/g2sZKv/IMG_0654.jpg) (http://ibb.co/g2sZKv)


Crack under the paint. Darker crack to the left is the leaker - other is more of a crease.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/faC9Kv/IMG_0670.jpg) (http://ibb.co/faC9Kv)


Will use some JBWeld and sealer to get by...

They make repops in Italy!  (probably not cheap...) http://www.pillondorino.com/index.php?_r=2511&id=195&cat=25-65
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: jas67 on August 04, 2017, 01:35:52 PM
Why not just get your tank welded and be done with it?
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 05, 2017, 11:01:43 PM
Why not just get your tank welded and be done with it?

The tank is made of at least 13 parts not counting the rivets and pipe fittings inside the tank. There are two pipes in the tank. There is both brass and lead solder all over the tank so it may never have been welded (1930s technology). It has dented corner seems on both sides and solder and brazing repairs to the bottom and the vent fitting in addition to the dent repairs. These tanks were originally chromed so that the circular bulges on each side could be polished, but the dents, creases and filler (and corrosion?) make it seem like an impossible repair.

It should look like this:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/hFvDEv/LTank.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hFvDEv)


So I will patch it to look like the rest of the bike...  :cool:

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 05, 2017, 11:34:06 PM
Before I noticed the oil leak I did some work on the controls.

The bars are not original. GTVs originally had bars with clamp on levers and a spiral throttle. These have lever perches welded to the bars.  Probably off an Alce or something. And a twist grip throttle - Super Practic.


(http://thumb.ibb.co/bJwEMa/IMG_0644.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bJwEMa)



It's got chain drive!

(http://thumb.ibb.co/nvqfuv/IMG_0649.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nvqfuv)


Cleaned up and ready to put together.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/hLN4Ma/IMG_0650.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hLN4Ma)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/hkopnF/IMG_0651.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hkopnF)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/kXiYEv/IMG_0652.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kXiYEv)


When I got it the throttle would only open 2/3 so had to do some cable work. 
Repaired throttle, choke and advance cables.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/eS9UnF/IMG_0653.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eS9UnF)


Still need to fix clutch and front brake cables...

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 07, 2017, 11:37:13 PM
Went to a friend's who's had a few Ducati singles and he had an surplus top ring for a Dellorto SS carb and it has the same threads as the MC26 top cap for the GTV. 

Only difference is the MC26 carbs have a larger top cap - 35mm vs 32.  So chuck it up in the lathe and cut out the center:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/cCJO1a/IMG_0663.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cCJO1a)


New carb top installed.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/mrv31a/IMG_0673.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mrv31a)


Just a note about the carb interchangeability - the old MC26 style carbs have a long main jet like the SS carbs, but the threads are 5mm on the MC26 and 6mm on the later SS carbs.  Earlier I'd tried a Mikuni "large round" jet, but it is too short - the tapered needle bottoms against the Mikuni.  No substitute for the correct Dellorto jet.

Made up a clutch cable and routed the cables along the frame.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/kJxrMa/IMG_0722.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kJxrMa)


Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 08, 2017, 12:22:58 AM
Update on the leaking olio tank...

After thorough cleaning (gasoline fallowed by laundry detergent followed by spray degreaser) I ground out the cracked paint and bondo and laid in a fillet of JBWeld.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/niXVEv/IMG_0672.jpg) (http://ibb.co/niXVEv)


There were 2 messy repairs and seams were lifting inside the tank so also pickled the inside of the tank with Ospho and coated the inside with tank sealer.  This is a cheap and cheerful fix to a tank that is probably not fixable and totally in keeping with the condition of the rest of the bike.   :laugh:

The tank was originally soldered and brazed up from steel sheet and brass fittings, then chromed.  It had been dented and previously repaired several times and had solder, braze, filler and paint hiding it all.  There is a messy brazing job along the bottom and sloppy soldering job at the breather fitting. To repair this mess for chrome seems impossible so may eventually $pring for the repop:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/gYrM4v/615g0hv0.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gYrM4v)


Finished repair has been oil tight for 2 days.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/dpWPra/IMG_0675.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dpWPra)


Getting closer!   :bike-037:


Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: RinkRat II on August 08, 2017, 09:33:59 AM
     
       SED,

    We love this stuff!! Thanks for sharing,  :bow:  :popcorn:

       Paul B :boozing:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 09, 2017, 10:43:29 AM
Thanks RinkRat. It's fun to see the progress, especially with the controls where you can feel the difference.

A little more on the clutch and brake levers - they're weird.  They have perches welded to the bars (Not OEM. Alces and some other Guzzis had welded perches, but apparently not GTVs). 

The levers don't have a slot for the cable - instead they use a small cable end trapped in a hollow barrel secured with a cotter pin.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/hDmkhF/IMG_0713.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hDmkhF)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/d85BNF/IMG_0715.jpg) (http://ibb.co/d85BNF)


Someone once posted about how cluttered the handle bars of some bikes looked with their brake and clutch cables or hoses sticking out all over.  It could be worse - the Slicer has 3 large levers and 2 small ones each with its own cable, plus there's the horn button!   :grin:   Ariels are similar.  Though today we have headlight, turnsignal, starter and kill switches too.   :bike-037:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 09, 2017, 11:57:55 AM
Just added the wrench icon to this post so it's easier for me to find.  Can we get a bacon icon???

After attaching the advance cable I timed the mag at 45 degrees full advance (seems a bit much, but that's how I read the book). There are arrows embossed on the crankcase and flywheel to mark TDC so just used a drafting square to find 45* - as Chuck would say:"this is not rocket science".   


(http://thumb.ibb.co/iLkERa/IMG_0809.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iLkERa)



So the engine controls are working now, it has circulating oil, spark, the carb is complete, the gas tank and taps are clean - so the only thing it needs is fuel. Once it is running I will want to ride it around the block, but the brakes were horrible when I rode it - effective squealers, but not much else - so to avoid temptation I've not installed the gas tank and seat and instead taken apart the rear wheel to address a few issues.

Master clip wrong way around:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/gBAyma/IMG_0727.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gBAyma)


The rear wheel rotated about 30 degrees  :shocked: before the rear sprocket would pull on the chain?!
There is a cush drive in the sprocket hub - so something is definitely wrong:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/mrq66a/IMG_0728.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mrq66a)


And the rear wheel seemed to be dragging and it wasn't the brakes.  Fixing these problems has been one of the most satisfying parts of the project so far.

Pulling apart the bearings revealed standard 6204 bearings  :thumb:  But someone had replaced original felt seals with thicker rubber seals that were distorted and worn. This also shows why the cush drive allowed so much wheel rotation - missing 1/2 the cushions.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/eF9PRa/IMG_0739.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eF9PRa)
 

Someone had tightened things so much that they'd crushed the distance tube between the bearings!

(http://thumb.ibb.co/g6RFXF/IMG_0740.jpg) (http://ibb.co/g6RFXF)


Quick trip to NAPA for new 6204 sealed bearings and to Hardware Sales for a chunk of rubber and some cleaning and polishing. Full floating axle in 1934 - Mr. Guzzi was an engineer!  (Picture is missing a spacer on the right)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/muQQXF/IMG_0778.jpg) (http://ibb.co/muQQXF)  (http://thumb.ibb.co/iaeKsF/IMG_0777.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iaeKsF)


Cut new cush drive rubbers from an $8 block of rubber with a hacksaw.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/fo9Yma/IMG_0780.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fo9Yma)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/f6qjsF/IMG_0783.jpg) (http://ibb.co/f6qjsF)



Not a lot I could do about the brake - it's almost 8" diameter but only 3/4" wide - it has the swept area of a gnat.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/gtAOma/IMG_0732.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gtAOma)


Cleaned the parts, including the super sticky grease from the cam pivot. Someone had thoughtfully painted the brake cam   :rolleyes:  so removed the paint. cleaned and sanded the friction surface on the shoes and drum.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/gAq0XF/IMG_0733.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gAq0XF)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/eBwkzv/IMG_0786.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eBwkzv)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/ddRDma/IMG_0787.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ddRDma)


Back in the frame with master clip installed correctly, chain tensioned and wheels aligned.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/kyG4Ra/IMG_0811.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kyG4Ra)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/gBQyma/IMG_0812.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gBQyma)


Gotta do the front next...
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on August 09, 2017, 02:46:43 PM
Quote
Cut new cush drive rubbers from an $8 block of rubber with a hacksaw.
:thumb:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Rick4003 on August 09, 2017, 03:10:09 PM
This is a great thread! Thanks for letting us come along on the project :)

 :popcorn:

-Ulrik
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: lorazepam on August 09, 2017, 05:16:30 PM
A most excellent thread! You make it look so easy.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: canuck750 on August 09, 2017, 06:49:55 PM
Great thread  :bow: :bow:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: jas67 on August 09, 2017, 09:07:27 PM
Great thread  :bow: :bow:

 :1:

And, I love the Bacon avatar!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: nick949 on August 10, 2017, 04:48:53 PM
Great thread SED - really enjoying it. :popcorn: :bow:  It makes me realize how sophisticated and modern the Nuovo Falcone is.  :boozing:

Nick
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: JJ on August 10, 2017, 07:22:09 PM
Here is my "Bacon-Slicer" appetizer for this evening...courtesy of Chef Karen  :wink: :cool:

Fresh Kadota (or Adriatic) green figs, sliced in two, roasted pecan halve in center, topped with Lavender infused goat cheese...wrapped in BACON...baked for 6 minutes....MMMMmmmm mm-BOY!!  :1: :thumb:


(http://thumb.ibb.co/hc2inF/IMG_3779.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hc2inF)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/dFs51a/IMG_3780.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dFs51a)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: rodekyll on August 11, 2017, 01:11:27 AM
If they still have brake houses in your area, they can probably reline the brakes.  Search "brake and clutch relining".

Looks like you're charging right through it!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 13, 2017, 12:14:20 AM
Wow!  Thank you for all the enthusiasm and suggestions.  Will post more tomorrow.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 13, 2017, 11:19:31 AM
After the rear wheel work went so well it was time to do the front - especially work on the brake which was a squealer but not much else.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/dzSeCF/IMG_0799.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dzSeCF)


Front brake is even smaller than the rear at 7" x 3/4".

(http://thumb.ibb.co/maRBRa/IMG_0790.jpg) (http://ibb.co/maRBRa)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/n5FXXF/IMG_0796.jpg) (http://ibb.co/n5FXXF)



A long time ago someone brazed gussets into the girder. Scary looking but no cracks. Something to watch carefully...

(http://thumb.ibb.co/bHHMsF/IMG_0793.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bHHMsF)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/em8uCF/IMG_0794.jpg) (http://ibb.co/em8uCF)



Tapered wheel bearings on a full floating axle and lots of sticky grease.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/d1m9ev/IMG_0800.jpg) (http://ibb.co/d1m9ev)



Someone had staked the nuts to the ends of the hollow axle and it took hours to clean up the threads.  Bearings ready for reassembly into the hub.  Rings above the bearings are felt seals. Brake side on the right.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/jB57XF/IMG_0802.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jB57XF)



Drum side.  Circle of bumps are spoke heads.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/miDNzv/IMG_0803.jpg) (http://ibb.co/miDNzv)



The brake shoes were only making contact on the cam end of the shoes so added a shim to the fixed end so that the shoes would make contact along more of the their length. Removed the paint from the cam and cleaned and lubed the cam pivot with moly grease. Pivot bearings are bronze castings.  collar on the backing plate is to catch grease that gets past the felt seal before it contaminates the brake shoes - clever!

(http://thumb.ibb.co/gO4eev/IMG_0964.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gO4eev)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/cY7MsF/IMG_0965.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cY7MsF)



Pulling the front wheel revealed that the steering head bearings were very loose.  Time to grease them.  Pulling a girder off the steering head is a hassle because you need to pull a pivot pin and then end up fighting the mainspring on reassembly.  So just loosened the nut until I could see the bearings. Look OK from here  :boozing:  so pack them with grease.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/ixZbsF/IMG_0970.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ixZbsF)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/h7LhXF/IMG_0973.jpg) (http://ibb.co/h7LhXF)



Used a tie-down strap to raise the fork to get at the upper bearings.  Tightening the steering head bearings made such a difference that the bike sits more upright on the bench. (Lots of slop remains in the girder pivots - a project for the future...)  Mr. Guzzi even used a pinch bolt to clamp the top yoke like a modern bike!

(http://thumb.ibb.co/b75uev/IMG_0975.jpg) (http://ibb.co/b75uev)



Front wheel back in the fork.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/e2VwRa/IMG_0807.jpg) (http://ibb.co/e2VwRa)



Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 13, 2017, 12:20:20 PM
Carlo who also has a GTV came by and we worked on some things that needed doing.
Removed and cleaned out the oil line that drains the rocker box.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/cqtama/IMG_0986.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cqtama)



Removed and cleaned the spring box cover (chrome bumps) and replaced the missing bolt.  It appears that the rear suspension preload can be adjusted by removing the cover and tightening the nuts.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/iRGNXF/IMG_0985.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iRGNXF)



Still needs a brake cable.  I had a new brake cable with the wrong end - the cable end was too large for the slotted barrel (this is clutch cable):

(http://thumb.ibb.co/mUvAKv/IMG_0717.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mUvAKv)



So chuck up a brass bolt in the lathe and cut it down to 7mm diameter.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/gtMNXF/IMG_0987.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gtMNXF)



The bolt was cross drilled for the cable, and one side counter sunk for the splayed ends and soldered into place (from JBNicholson):

(http://thumb.ibb.co/kekVma/Cable_Ends.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kekVma)



BTW it is very easy to overheat the wire strands using a torch.  The wire becomes brittle and breaks (been there, done that).  Use a soldering iron. 


Lever, pivot and barrel were cleaned up and lubed and installed:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/iLkkKv/IMG_0998.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iLkkKv)



Casing was cut to length and a new end installed on the other end of the wire. (If the ends are fixed to the wire it is worth aligning the ends so that the cable doesn't have a twist when both ends are connected.)  I had a cable ferrule that fit into the yoke for the brake lever.  Lightly crimp ferrule to hold it in place, splay wire ends, solder in place and clean up end with file or grinder.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/fumQKv/IMG_0992.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fumQKv)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/kMw36a/IMG_0996.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kMw36a)



Brake cable installed.  Cable took hours to make, including a run to Hardware Sales for the brass bolt.  Total cost $1.18.  :grin:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/ft5D6a/IMG_1000.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ft5D6a)



Can we ride yet???

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: RinkRat II on August 13, 2017, 12:30:56 PM

 It's always to your advantage to have a assistant named Carlo whilst working on Italian machinery! :thumb:

       Paul B :boozing:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 13, 2017, 12:42:02 PM
It's always to your advantage to have a assistant named Carlo whilst working on Italian machinery! :thumb:

       Paul B :boozing:

Yes indeed!

Carlo just sent me some pictures:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/iV0Bba/image2.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iV0Bba)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/d4O8NF/image3.jpg) (http://ibb.co/d4O8NF)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/jA8a2F/image4.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jA8a2F)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/bMzR9v/image5.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bMzR9v)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: rodekyll on August 13, 2017, 02:37:07 PM
"Someone had staked the nuts to the ends of the hollow axle and it took hours to clean up the threads. "

Those bunged up threads -- do you have a thread file?  $10 item at the local Tru-Value or other usual suspect.  Looks like this RANDOM EXAMPLE from ebay (no need to mail order):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jawco-8-Nu-Thred-Thread-Restoring-Metric-File-0-80-3-00mm-TPI-MADE-IN-USA-New-/141350808650?hash=item20e92a2c4a:g:pc0AAOSwibJTyEYc

Handy as duc tape!  I use it mostly for axles and the engine/transmission mounting thru-bolts, since they often get the threads bunged during hostilities. 
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on August 14, 2017, 08:39:44 AM
Quote
and it took hours to clean up the threads.
You mean you don't have a die to clean up those threads? <scratching head>  :smiley:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 14, 2017, 12:19:10 PM
"Someone had staked the nuts to the ends of the hollow axle and it took hours to clean up the threads. "

Those bunged up threads -- do you have a thread file?  $10 item at the local Tru-Value or other usual suspect. 

Handy as duc tape!  I use it mostly for axles and the engine/transmission mounting thru-bolts, since they often get the threads bunged during hostilities.

You're right, I need a metric thread file or die (have 3 inch-pitch files including one for Brit threadforms) so I bought one this morning.  :grin:

But a thread file wouldn't have helped anyway because the guy had used a punch to stake around the nut in 4 places which reduced the ID of the nut and pinched the outer threads.  Local tool seller had a 18mm x 1.0 tap, but it was $$$. 

He also had 7mm x 1.0 (pre-standardization) tap and die for some of the weirder bolts and nuts. Got them to clean up the 7mm exhaust studs and nuts that are hammered.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on August 14, 2017, 12:32:22 PM
If you have an 18mm bolt, you can hand grind some flutes and a little taper on the end to "make" a thread chaser.
If your lathe can cut metric threads (or close enough) you can clean up those external threads, too. Takes a little finessing.  :smiley:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 14, 2017, 01:10:35 PM
There is something in one of the tool boxes on the bike - probably a gold ingot.   :grin:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/kehNZv/IMG_1032.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kehNZv)



Don't have a key, but easy to make when you know what the lock looks like.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/dOAy7F/e54q82n0.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dOAy7F)



Homemade key:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/e3zrSF/IMG_1034.jpg) (http://ibb.co/e3zrSF)



Jackpot!

(http://thumb.ibb.co/dz7vnF/IMG_1035.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dz7vnF)



Must carefully unwrap like the shroud of Turin:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/gz4fMa/IMG_1040.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gz4fMa)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/mzbuga/IMG_1041.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mzbuga)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/f7kn1a/IMG_1042.jpg) (http://ibb.co/f7kn1a)



The other tool box held the golden fleece.  (Padova is about 150 miles from Mandello del Lario.)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/gOF6SF/IMG_1038.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gOF6SF)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/idAUga/IMG_1049.jpg) (http://ibb.co/idAUga)




The "Shroud of Mandello" laid out on the workbench:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/ixDX1a/IMG_1050.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ixDX1a)



If you look closely you can see an image of Carlo preserved in the shroud:  :evil:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/nEg5nF/IMG_1052.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nEg5nF)



My favorite hardware store had a key that fit with a little modification.  It is called a bit and barrel key.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/j0wXZv/IMG_1047.jpg) (http://ibb.co/j0wXZv)



Does anyone have any recommendations for preservation of the Shroud of Mandello?    :popcorn:

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 14, 2017, 01:13:46 PM
If you have an 18mm bolt, you can hand grind some flutes and a little taper on the end to "make" a thread chaser.
If your lathe can cut metric threads (or close enough) you can clean up those external threads, too. Takes a little finessing.  :smiley:

That's a great idea Chuck. It's back together so I'll try that next time.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on August 14, 2017, 01:27:20 PM
Nice find.  :thumb: I love finding stuff like that on antique machines..
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: rodekyll on August 14, 2017, 02:52:19 PM
You get all the fun.   :sad:  The best thing I ever found in a bike toolbox was a .32 Walther.  A little PPK.  Exciting to find, but less useful than those pliars in your horde.  I couldn't even make a hole in a target by throwing it.   :coffee:

"Does anyone have any recommendations for preservation of the Shroud of Mandello?    :popcorn:"

Extra virgin olive oil -- synth.  Someone else will come along with the appropriate weight and API.   :evil:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on August 14, 2017, 05:20:51 PM
Oh, I'd never use synthetic on a shroud. It'll bleach that image right out..
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: rodekyll on August 14, 2017, 08:31:04 PM
Remember it's fabric, Chuck, not metal.  :rolleyes: Or are we talking different shrouds?   :undecided:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 15, 2017, 12:13:46 AM
Ha! A friend of a friend supposes Grappa is a good preservative...   :grin:

Time to work on the exhaust system.  Some time with bronze wool and elbow grease helped.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/g0DmcF/IMG_1030.jpg) (http://ibb.co/g0DmcF)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/fq0ora/IMG_1031.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fq0ora)



But like everything else - it's complicated.  First were the damaged 7mm studs and nuts - 7mm is a metric size not normally used, but fortunately the local tool dealer had a 7mm tap and die and Hardware Sales had new 7mm nuts.  Chasing threads:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/hZHF4v/IMG_1055.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hZHF4v)



1984 Toyota Tercel exhaust gasket is a little thick but otherwise a perfect fit.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/gUwQ4v/IMG_1008.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gUwQ4v)



The exhaust should exit the head, run strait along the lower frame rail and end in front of the rear fender like so:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/gv0GcF/1937GTV.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gv0GcF)



For whatever reason this one has a bunch of extra bends, runs too high, burns the footrest rubber and ends behind the rear fender.  Easy part was that the muffler had not been slid over the pipe far enough (green arrow) so the hanger (yellow arrow) was at a crazy angle.  Being too high, the pipe touched the footrest burning the rubber (black arrow).  To get the pipe to hang lower the bend (red arrow) had to be relaxed or the pipe won't seal to the head.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/fVPL4v/Exhaust.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fVPL4v)



Separated the muffler from the pipe then anchored the head end of the pipe over a socket held in a vice and heated the pipe with MAPP gas until red, then forced it into shape.  You'll have to imagine it.  The pipe now runs several centimeters below the foot peg.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/kfF4Wa/IMG_1057.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kfF4Wa)



More polishing...

(http://thumb.ibb.co/iNX9Wa/IMG_1056.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iNX9Wa)

 

A small dent prevented the muffler from sliding all the way over the pipe.  Dent was massaged out with another suitibly sized socket.  Offending rust and crud was removed with a wire wheel and the muffler slid over the pipe so that it would hang from its stay in the right location.  It now hangs pretty well, should seal and doesn't burn rubber.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/jePgBa/IMG_1061.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jePgBa)



Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on August 15, 2017, 07:16:33 AM
Attaboy.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 15, 2017, 11:08:25 PM
The fuel taps should probably have some strainers given all the junk that was in the tank.  Fortunately I have some fine brass screen "gauze filter" in the old Brit bike manuals.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/hrumwa/IMG_1009.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hrumwa)


Form it over a pencil, stick the end in the tap to get the size and glue with super glue (much faster and cleaner that soldering).  Wrap the rest of the "gauze" around and stick with a nice fillet of glue.  Fold over the end, crimp with pliers and glue.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/msH9hF/IMG_1013.jpg) (http://ibb.co/msH9hF)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/j8eN2F/IMG_1019.jpg) (http://ibb.co/j8eN2F)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/dr7mUv/IMG_1021.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dr7mUv)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/nAb22F/IMG_1014.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nAb22F)



Make sure it fits in the tank first! 

(http://thumb.ibb.co/f3zphF/IMG_1010.jpg) (http://ibb.co/f3zphF)



Ready to install:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/bDzphF/IMG_1026.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bDzphF)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/mM5vNF/IMG_1027.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mM5vNF)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/n0ktba/IMG_1059.jpg) (http://ibb.co/n0ktba)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: azguzzirep on August 16, 2017, 02:08:37 PM
Great write up!

You said it followed you home.  From Mandello or someplace in the States?
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on August 16, 2017, 02:12:54 PM
Never tried Super Glue in any area where it would be around or submerged in gasoline. Does it hold up to modern fuels?
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Guzzi Gal on August 16, 2017, 02:30:18 PM
Simply GORGEOUS!  :drool:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on August 16, 2017, 06:46:42 PM
Never tried Super Glue in any area where it would be around or submerged in gasoline. Does it hold up to modern fuels?

Me either..  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 16, 2017, 11:05:59 PM
Great write up!

You said it followed you home.  From Mandello or someplace in the States?

It was for sale on the local Craigslist (Stanwood, WA) before we left for Europe and still there when I got back.  Seeing Bacon Slicers running around in Italy made me want it.    :smiley:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 16, 2017, 11:13:20 PM
Never tried Super Glue in any area where it would be around or submerged in gasoline. Does it hold up to modern fuels?

I took a chance based on my experience with POR15 which I used to seal the '47 Ariel tank about 15 years ago.  POR15 cures with moisture like cyanoacrylate super glue so assume it is the same.  The Ariel has had gas of all types in it ever since and no problems so went with super glue instead of solder.  Will let you know if it comes apart.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 17, 2017, 01:46:53 AM
Despite all the work on this bike, it's still a mystery.  I'd love some leads or comparisons from a knowledgeable source.

It was sold as a 1933 model 157, but it appears to be a GTV which were built from 1934 to 1948 (none built 1940-45).  It has the correct GTV gas tank, oil tank and engine.  Early GTVs had a saddle gas tank with chrome gas cap, chrome oil cap, girder fork, knee action rear shocks and most (all?) had twin exhaust pipes. Later GTVs had bakelite caps, tele forks and hydraulic dampers, larger front brake and engine with single exhaust.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/hod91a/1937GTVa.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hod91a) (http://thumb.ibb.co/gngjZv/1948GTV.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gngjZv)


They were touring bikes so came with leg shields.

Apparently early Guzzi frame numbers are sequential by by date of completion, not model, so I cannot determine the model from the frame number but it is only 4 digits (< 10,000 total Guzzis since 1921!)

This bike has all early characteristics except the twin pipe engine. The only engine number visible without pulling the engine from the frame is on a timing cover and probably from a post WWII engine. 

This bike has the rear hub and cush drive shown in the 1931 Sport 15 parts book.  The 1937-39 GTV parts book shows a later style rear hub.  The front and rear brake plates also match the 1931 parts book.  (If anyone has a parts book between 1931 and 1939 I'd love to get a copy!)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/kPhV7F/1931_Rear_Hub.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kPhV7F)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/heAHnF/1937_9_Rear_Hub.jpg) (http://ibb.co/heAHnF)


Given early style hubs and brakes and 4 digit frame number and chrome gas and oil caps I'm thinking the bike is 1937 or earlier, probably with a later engine.  It also has the wrong handle bar, so perhaps it has been built up from parts?  Would love to know more.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: azguzzirep on August 17, 2017, 03:36:19 AM
Sounds like a typical Guzzi to me!😉😂😂
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 17, 2017, 11:25:17 PM
 :smiley:

OK time to put on a seat.  The bike is even smaller than the Ariel and old bikes were smaller and the people smaller too.  My knees sit above the knee pads.  Must've been made for someone about 5'6".

I made extensions for the Ariel saddles that sit them higher and further back.  So I made some brackets to move the GTV seat up and back, but nothing seemed right - mostly because the saddle is so small. 

(http://thumb.ibb.co/fJvYcF/IMG_0633.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fJvYcF)



I then tried the original saddle for the '47 Ariel - it sits up higher and further back and is wider too - all without brackets.  It even looked decent.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/nxBgxF/IMG_1063.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nxBgxF)



Needed to polish the springs with bronze wool.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/h4V24v/IMG_1068.jpg) (http://ibb.co/h4V24v)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/mmx4HF/IMG_1069.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mmx4HF)



There was some fancy bolt finding and shimming and now this metric bike has 2 British cycle thread nuts on it... :undecided:

But it looks almost ready to ride...

(http://thumb.ibb.co/gPAfra/IMG_1070.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gPAfra)


Just needs a valve adjustment and some gasoline!   :bike-037:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Muzz on August 18, 2017, 12:43:44 AM
 :thumb: :thumb:

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chesterfield on August 18, 2017, 03:36:36 AM
Before I noticed the oil leak I did some work on the controls.

The bars are not original. GTVs originally had bars with clamp on levers and a spiral throttle. These have lever perches welded to the bars.  Probably off an Alce or something. And a twist grip throttle - Super Practic.


(http://thumb.ibb.co/bJwEMa/IMG_0644.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bJwEMa)



.

The throttle on a BMW 75/5 I owned had a bevel gear setup with a little chain to pull the cables straight instead of around a throttle tube. It was quite ingenious and takes away the place cables break ( going around the throttle tube ).
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 19, 2017, 06:53:37 PM
Cool! There's a lot of things on this bike that seem (at least compared to British bikes) modern for 1934 - unit engine & transmission, swingarm rear suspension with springs below (didn't Buell or Britton do something similar), rotary oil pump, foot shift transmission, cush drive rear hub, rubber mounted handlebars...

Update:
Adjust valves and notice the large amount of slop in the rocker gear (1/16"!)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/eVtW1k/IMG_1071.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eVtW1k)


Put some gas in the tank, let choke lever almost full on, advance the mag lever just a little, turn up the idle speed screw, tickle the float 1.5 seconds and kick...


once


and she ran!     :shocked: :smiley: 

I was so startled I turned it off almost immediately - though not before confirming that oil was circulating.

Checked everything over and it seemed ok so kicked it again and it started first kick again.    :smiley:

This time I let it run and warm up so it would run without choke. Lowered the idle stop screw, messed with the idle mixture screw and got worse then better.  Then I rode it out the driveway and onto the street and back into the driveway.  Eventually I got it running pretty well but it had an occasional bad misfire that would cause a clunk.

Eventually it would start and run easily - even coaxed it around the block - but it would still misfire and clunk.  And weirdly the valve lifter seemed to engage less and less. Something needed investigating with the valve lifter....


Picture after running around the block:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/mYCixQ/IMG_1073.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mYCixQ)






Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Adk.IBO on August 19, 2017, 07:10:50 PM
Very nice display of mechanical skill! Enjoying the commentary, thank you! Cool bike.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 19, 2017, 07:58:43 PM
So pulled the timing cover where the valve lifter lives to investigate - a black gooey mess:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/mdyHP5/IMG_1075.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mdyHP5)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/mbukBk/IMG_1076.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mbukBk)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/d6yvBk/IMG_1077.jpg) (http://ibb.co/d6yvBk)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/b2pJWk/IMG_1078.jpg) (http://ibb.co/b2pJWk)


Did some cleanup, but really couldn't find anything wrong except excessive wear in the roller cam followers (roller cam in 1934!) and general wear and grunge.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/n6Dnrk/IMG_1080.jpg) (http://ibb.co/n6Dnrk)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/djPSrk/IMG_1081.jpg) (http://ibb.co/djPSrk)


Put it back together and ran it around the block again. It was better, but not right.
You can see the intake valve and flywheel "moving" in this still:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/bECSP5/IMG_1087.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bECSP5)



So pulled the rocker box and all was revealed:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/hzZkBk/IMG_1096.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hzZkBk)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/f68Crk/IMG_1103.jpg) (http://ibb.co/f68Crk)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/c9P2rk/IMG_1104.jpg) (http://ibb.co/c9P2rk)



Warning! The following describes a bodge of EPIC proportions.  Please avert your eyes if you are of a tender constitution.  :evil:


So cleaned everything up.  To solve the wear in the rocker cover the loose bushes had caused I roughed up the surface and laid some JBWeld into the low spots and let it sit a couple hours until it was stiff like modeling clay. 

(http://thumb.ibb.co/jKPVcQ/IMG_1128.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jKPVcQ)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/dfUJWk/IMG_1131.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dfUJWk)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/nBs0cQ/IMG_1135.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nBs0cQ)


The bushings were almost as badly worn as the rocker cover but only on the side receiving the load.  Because the top and bottom of each bushing is almost identical they can be swapped around to regain their alignment.  With the bushings swapped around and the lower 1/2 bolted into the lower half of the rockerbox I then coated the stiff JBWeld and the upper bush with grease and bolted up the rocker box clamshell to squeeze the excess JBWeld into shape.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/furAcQ/IMG_1130.jpg) (http://ibb.co/furAcQ)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/nBs0cQ/IMG_1135.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nBs0cQ)


Let it dry overnight. Fit some new felt washers cut from something bigger and an o-ring from the hydraulic shop.  (Cool tip: assemble and bolt the halves of the rocker clam on the bench, then bolt to bike.)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/jscQcQ/IMG_1139.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jscQcQ)


In keeping with the epic bodge I found some tubing with which to make a new "pushrod"  :tongue:  (No source of metric steel tubing locally...) 

Reassemble, turn on fuel, set idle, choke, advance, tickle and kick...

See it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3GO6axC1Gs&feature=youtu.be


Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 19, 2017, 08:14:06 PM
Thanks Adk!

I was so pleased I rode it around several blocks and let it run a while and it seemed fine. 

And the vintage club was doing a tiddler ride today...  (500cc is not really a tiddler but apparently 18hp is :cool:)

So decided to go for a little test ride this morning...  about 60 miles!   :afro:


(http://thumb.ibb.co/fGrhrk/IMG_1156.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fGrhrk) (http://thumb.ibb.co/iiAYWk/IMG_1160.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iiAYWk)  (http://thumb.ibb.co/iS9Srk/IMG_1162.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iS9Srk)  (http://thumb.ibb.co/nM9kBk/IMG_1166.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nM9kBk) (http://thumb.ibb.co/joe2rk/IMG_1169.jpg) (http://ibb.co/joe2rk) (http://thumb.ibb.co/gVOvBk/IMG_1171.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gVOvBk) (http://thumb.ibb.co/cJEkBk/IMG_1175.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cJEkBk) (http://thumb.ibb.co/dpFsrk/IMG_1177.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dpFsrk) (http://thumb.ibb.co/f3RnP5/IMG_1187.jpg) (http://ibb.co/f3RnP5) (http://thumb.ibb.co/b59VcQ/IMG_1197.jpg) (http://ibb.co/b59VcQ)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on August 19, 2017, 08:28:40 PM
Too cool.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: jas67 on August 19, 2017, 11:31:03 PM
Congrats on getting the Bacon Slicer road worthy!    VERY cool bike!

As for the tidler ride, that little red Honda in your last row of pics is a rare little bike, the CB92R.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dpFsrk/IMG_1177.jpg)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 20, 2017, 12:33:03 AM
Congrats on getting the Bacon Slicer road worthy!    VERY cool bike!

As for the tidler ride, that little red Honda in your last row of pics is a rare little bike, the CB92R.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dpFsrk/IMG_1177.jpg)

Good eye!  That 125 sounds like a 650 with its open megaphones.  There were a few Hondas there.  Only 1 Brit (James), One Italian (Guzzi), 2 Americans (Cushman and Indian) and ZERO Kawasakis. 
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: rodekyll on August 20, 2017, 01:53:04 AM
Well done!

Have you considered finding a pushrod of the correct length from something else, like a VW or newer guzzi?
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on August 20, 2017, 07:57:54 AM
Epic bodge, indeed.. :grin:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: RinkRat II on August 20, 2017, 09:52:01 AM
 Great job SED, I'm thinking fame and fortune in your future with a JB Weld commercial and testamonial  :evil:
     What's the stealth device on your front fender?

       Paul B :boozing:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 20, 2017, 10:30:14 AM
Well done!

Have you considered finding a pushrod of the correct length from something else, like a VW or newer guzzi?

I may have to, the valve gap was opening up by the end of the ride.    :sad:   

I would love to find something that would work locally, but I can probably get it from Italy.  I'd have to use the ends from these pushrods because they are quite small.  The tubing is steel 8mm ID, 10mm OD and a little less than 11" long.  Any tubing I use must be 11mm or smaller because of the tight clearances.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 20, 2017, 10:32:35 AM

     What's the stealth device on your front fender?

       Paul B :boozing:

Caught me!  :embarrassed:  It's my bicycle HID headlight.  I had to use it and a bicycle tailight because the electrical is not hooked up yet... 
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: rodekyll on August 20, 2017, 12:17:30 PM
Well, that's a pasta machine you got right there, so we need to use pasta rules for the pushrod problem.  Boil the pushrod for 6 minutes in salted water.  Add a bit of oil to keep it from sticking.  It should go limp, and then you can hang it or pull it straight.  When it cools and hardens, it's ready.   :food:

If that doesn't work, try this:

https://www.pushrods.net/one-piece-pushrods?gclid=CJv-w9-n5tUCFUWXfgodo9UDxg
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: canuck750 on August 20, 2017, 01:31:51 PM
The more I follow your great post the more I want a bacon slicer of my own.  :1:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on August 20, 2017, 06:03:27 PM
Well, that's a pasta machine you got right there, so we need to use pasta rules for the pushrod problem.  Boil the pushrod for 6 minutes in salted water.  Add a bit of oil to keep it from sticking.  It should go limp, and then you can hang it or pull it straight.  When it cools and hardens, it's ready.   :food:

If that doesn't work, try this:

https://www.pushrods.net/one-piece-pushrods?gclid=CJv-w9-n5tUCFUWXfgodo9UDxg

Nice find, David..  :thumb:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 20, 2017, 07:41:45 PM
Well, that's a pasta machine you got right there, so we need to use pasta rules for the pushrod problem.  Boil the pushrod for 6 minutes in salted water.  Add a bit of oil to keep it from sticking.  It should go limp, and then you can hang it or pull it straight.  When it cools and hardens, it's ready.   :food:

If that doesn't work, try this:

https://www.pushrods.net/one-piece-pushrods?gclid=CJv-w9-n5tUCFUWXfgodo9UDxg

Ha!  Awesome link - thanks!  I'll be calling them.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 20, 2017, 07:44:57 PM
The more I follow your great post the more I want a bacon slicer of my own.  :1:

You're much more patient than I have been and would do a beautiful job with it. 
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: jas67 on August 20, 2017, 09:09:07 PM
Caught me!  :embarrassed:  It's my bicycle HID headlight.  I had to use it and a bicycle tailight because the electrical is not hooked up yet...

LOL.     I use an LED bicycle headlight on my Ducati 250 Monza, because the charging system currently isn't healthy enough to run the 25w headlight, the ignition system, and still charge the battery.

The bicycle headlight is way brighter than the 25w 6-volt headlight anyway.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Psychopasta on August 20, 2017, 10:41:09 PM
Great work, congratulations on getting it running!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: azguzzirep on August 22, 2017, 07:37:53 AM
I was at an old timer show last Sunday and saw this;
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dszXu5/20170820_113126.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dszXu5)

how to upload images (http://imgbb.com/)


The owner didn't want to sell it though. He's owned it over 20 years. He went sky high when I stupidly told him how much I'd was now worth.

Luckily there are two other slicers advertised in a club newsletter .
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: jas67 on August 22, 2017, 12:55:55 PM
Good pic of really old, and less old.   Nice slicer, and nice 750S3.   I'd be happy to either or both in my garage.

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 22, 2017, 11:47:42 PM
I was at an old timer show last Sunday and saw this;
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dszXu5/20170820_113126.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dszXu5)

how to upload images (http://imgbb.com/)


The owner didn't want to sell it though. He's owned it over 20 years. He went sky high when I stupidly told him how much I'd was now worth.

Luckily there are two other slicers advertised in a club newsletter .

Cool bike. Enclosed valves - does that make it an Astore or Falcone?  That front brake sure looks effective compared to the one on mine. 

And yes the 750S is a great looking bike too.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: azguzzirep on August 23, 2017, 05:52:36 AM
Cool bike. Enclosed valves - does that make it an Astore or Falcone?  That front brake sure looks effective compared to the one on mine. 

And yes the 750S is a great looking bike too.

It's a 1951 Falcone. I gave him my card, maybe he will call and ask me to buy it from him.  Huh, what's that noise? Oh, my alarm clock.  I was dreaming 😀😀
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 25, 2017, 07:07:25 PM
It's a 1951 Falcone. I gave him my card, maybe he will call and ask me to buy it from him.  Huh, what's that noise? Oh, my alarm clock.  I was dreaming 😀😀

Let's hope he gives you a call.  If you do get one, post about it on here.  WG needs more bacon!   :grin:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: azguzzirep on August 27, 2017, 07:04:25 AM
Let's hope he gives you a call.  If you do get one, post about it on here.  WG needs more bacon!   :grin:

WHEN I get one, I won't shut up about it😁😁😁!!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 29, 2017, 09:07:22 PM
WHEN I get one, I won't shut up about it😁😁😁!!

I like that sentiment  :grin:  here's a photo from around town yesterday.
(Really do need to pull the flywheel, clean the clutch and rebuild the generator...)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/huBzGk/IMG_1259.jpg) (http://ibb.co/huBzGk)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: rodekyll on August 30, 2017, 12:10:28 AM
Needs more red.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: jas67 on August 30, 2017, 01:25:05 PM
Needs more red.

LOL!

I think it is beautiful!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Psychopasta on August 30, 2017, 08:43:21 PM
So SED, is the bacon slicer project finished for now, or are you planning more work on it?

Great job, I was amazed at how fast you got it running and rideable.

- P

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: canuck750 on August 30, 2017, 10:23:32 PM
I like that sentiment  :grin:  here's a photo from around town yesterday.
(Really do need to pull the flywheel, clean the clutch and rebuild the generator...)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/huBzGk/IMG_1259.jpg) (http://ibb.co/huBzGk)


Can we get an update rider report? What speed is it comfortable up to, cruising speed, how are the brakes, steering, I bet its a blast|!

Would you recommend it as a sunny day rider?
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 30, 2017, 11:34:33 PM
Can we get an update rider report? What speed is it comfortable up to, cruising speed, how are the brakes, steering, I bet its a blast|!

Would you recommend it as a sunny day rider?

It is a blast to ride, but it is very small - I've moved the seat back and up about 1" and my knees are still a couple inches above the knee pads.  I'm 5' 11", but it seems to have been built for someone about 5' 6". 

It is fun to ride, but it has lots of problems.

The brakes are very weak (working on it), the clutch is very sticky and drags (flushing clutch chamber with gasoline helps - clutch is bronze and steel plates lubes by mist from the engine breather), 2nd and 3rd gears are very noisy and both will jump out of gear (needs a rebuild so I should probably not be riding it  :rolleyes:).

Hard to say about the steering. It has a very tight turning circle - bars might be 45 degrees full lock! The girder fork bushings are worn and there is roughly 1/16" slop in the worst shaft. Fork spring is very weak and sags at least 1" below neutral with me on it. The steering damper does not really work yet.  These factors make the steering feel very light and quick. Despite that I can ride no hands for a short distance.  Until last weekend it would drag the stand because the stand wouldn't clear the muffler. I can now corner more, but it has old Italian Pirellis so not feeling very aggressive!

Carb is very worn, but seems to work well and the bike starts, runs and idles hot or cold.  (this is also a good sign for the Marelli magneto!)  The bike is geared very high with a 33 tooth rear sprocket - I think it was correct for the GTV's hand change 3 speed predecessor , and may have been continued on early GTVs (or it's a big bitsa).  Engine likes to lope along at very relaxed RPM, but has lots of low end torque and pulls OK up to about 50 mph.  Guzzi claimed a top speed of about 120kph, but it is over-geared and not frenetic.

It is unit construction with gearbox and engine sharing oil and there is plenty of evidence that I should pull the engine and rebuild it - noisy gears, slop in roller cam followers, valves stem and rocker posts misaligned due to wear.  I really need to do that, but right now I'm having fun making it all work.

I also need to fix the lighting, I've ridden it with bicycle lights, but can't make a habit of that! 

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 31, 2017, 12:17:54 AM
To answer PPasta - YES!

Last weekend I borrowed a torch from one friend and a welder from another! 

Stand was splayed too wide and pipe is wrong and kinked in.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/iJY6Wk/IMG_1240.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iJY6Wk)


Used the torch to heat the pipe cherry red and straighten it (no pic) and did the same to the stand. Traced it on both sides of the paper and held it up to a window so I could keep it symmetric.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/kBk3Bk/IMG_1286.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kBk3Bk)     (http://thumb.ibb.co/ddp8cQ/IMG_1241.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ddp8cQ)


The stand stops on the frame were badly worn so I laid a bead of weld on the stand rather than disassemble the bike and rivet in a new stand stop that I would have to make.  I'll do that when I restore it!  :evil:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/gBLH45/IMG_1244.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gBLH45)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/dUDRxQ/IMG_1251.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dUDRxQ)


The feet of the stand were worn out - at least 1/8" of steel was worn away where the feet touched the ground - it was so thin it was bending.  I reinforced the feet where they touched the ground by welding and grinding.  The feet were still too far out (they started 2"+ from frame) so cut them off and rewelded them onto the stand.  (lots of test fitting)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/g9RPj5/IMG_1252.jpg) (http://ibb.co/g9RPj5)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/jPoRxQ/IMG_1253.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jPoRxQ)


Painting:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/icadBk/IMG_1255.jpg) (http://ibb.co/icadBk)


All this work resulted in a great working stand. It holds the bike straighter, holds the rear wheel up more, and is easier to get on and off.  Despite that, I don't know what is correct - hope I've not cut an original but distorted stand.  :embarrassed:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/mR5WxQ/IMG_1258crop.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mR5WxQ)


Gonna use the welder on the brakes next!   :evil:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 31, 2017, 09:00:16 PM
The other project I needed Brad's welder for was the brake pedal which is made from a stamping with a tube brazed to it.  It was coming loose.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/d33YBk/IMG_1270.jpg) (http://ibb.co/d33YBk)



There was also lots of wear in the all other parts of the brake linkage. 1st picture shows wear in pivot for brake pedal that doubles as foot rest mount - note how it's thickness changes.  Second - worn pivot.  Third - difficult to see, but eye had been worn, rewelded, chromed and worn again. Forth - worn rear brake rod.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/iDYBxQ/IMG_1273.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iDYBxQ)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/frOYBk/IMG_1274.jpg) (http://ibb.co/frOYBk)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/f1QPHQ/IMG_1275.jpg) (http://ibb.co/f1QPHQ)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/bCFPHQ/IMG_1276.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bCFPHQ)


Fixed pedal first: (practice welding on 80 year old MC)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/iKz9HQ/IMG_1277.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iKz9HQ)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/fO8Ej5/IMG_1278.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fO8Ej5)


The pedal pivot was very sloppy so decided to weld up the worn foot rest pivot.  My welding is horrible, so you get to see the cleaned up version. Not perfect, not machined to precision, but much better than before and very little slop.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/cO9gWk/IMG_1280.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cO9gWk)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/ejERxQ/IMG_1283.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ejERxQ)     (http://thumb.ibb.co/kJSDcQ/IMG_1281.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kJSDcQ)


More to do...

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: RinkRat II on August 31, 2017, 09:29:49 PM

 Great job SED, can't wait for the spoke tuning!! :evil:

      Paul B :boozing:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on August 31, 2017, 10:49:39 PM
After a little welding and clean up.  :boozing:


(http://thumb.ibb.co/nfA8cQ/IMG_1287.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nfA8cQ)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/fo8uHQ/IMG_1288.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fo8uHQ)     (http://thumb.ibb.co/cBiTcQ/IMG_1289.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cBiTcQ)


The fits are pretty good despite the amateur welding and machining so some good fitting washers, robust cotter pins and moly grease and she'll be fine!   :cool:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on September 01, 2017, 11:08:09 PM
This funny little piece is concentric with the swingarm pivot.  The lightbulb finally went on and I realized it was Guzzi's way of making sure that braking was not affected as the swingarm bounces over bumps.  Cool!

(http://thumb.ibb.co/i7u6ia/IMG_1290.jpg) (http://ibb.co/i7u6ia)


Thought this eye was OK because it was so symmetric, but it should be 6mm and was worn at least 8mm.  Welded and cleaned up.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/ghcywv/IMG_1294.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ghcywv)


Spent some time straitening the flat bar and brake rod in the vice.  The brake rod has been worn in two places along its length, apparently by rubbing against panier racks or exhaust hangers or pillion foot rests.  Previous "restorer" rechromed it right over the wear. Unfortunately it is 7mm - where can I find tough 7mm steel rod??? Thinking to got to 5/16 or 8mm, but then I can't use the original rear brake clevis and wing-nut that are stamped "Guzzi".

Put back together with close fitting flat washers, spring washers moly grease and new cotters.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/h3VyUF/IMG_1296.jpg) (http://ibb.co/h3VyUF)     (http://thumb.ibb.co/demiwv/IMG_1295.jpg) (http://ibb.co/demiwv)


Brake pedal feel is much firmer. Did a quick test ride up and down the street and brake feel was much firmer, but squeaky!  Will have to actually ride someplace to see if it made much of a difference...
  :bike-037:

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on September 02, 2017, 08:55:59 AM
McMaster-Carr has 7 mm steel rod in several varieties, here's "ultra-machinable":
https://www.mcmaster.com/#5544T262 . Search "standard steel rods" for more. 
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: jas67 on September 02, 2017, 09:11:59 AM
How hard is it to get used to braking with your heal, instead of toe?
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on September 02, 2017, 11:41:12 AM
McMaster-Carr has 7 mm steel rod in several varieties, here's "ultra-machinable":
https://www.mcmaster.com/#5544T262 . Search "standard steel rods" for more.

Ordered it - Thanks!   I gotta remember McMaster-Carr - they have so much.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on September 02, 2017, 11:44:21 AM
How hard is it to get used to braking with your heal, instead of toe?

It's really weird, but it seems that the idea is that the foot pegs are under the ball of your foot more like bicycle pedals.  That position reminds me to use the heal anyway.  You can definitely put more force on it with your heal than toe.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: canuck750 on September 02, 2017, 07:28:17 PM
Thanks for the ride report, makes me want one even more.

Great work your doing, so many small and delicate repairs carried out, very impressive!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on September 14, 2017, 09:46:11 PM
Money Slicer!   :boozing:

Package from the homeland:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/jj0F9Q/IMG_1537.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jj0F9Q)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/hniDw5/IMG_1539.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hniDw5)


http://www.valentimotorestauri.com/public/public

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: lti_57 on September 14, 2017, 09:50:29 PM
Hey that was so cool to see with Si the other weekend
and that bad boy  fired right up. What a great sound  really like Half a Guzzi Twin sound
hope we connect again I had a hoot riding with you all
Lance
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on September 14, 2017, 10:12:27 PM
Hey that was so cool to see with Si the other weekend
and that bad boy  fired right up. What a great sound  really like Half a Guzzi Twin sound
hope we connect again I had a hoot riding with you all
Lance

Yes - me too. Glad you came over for all the shenanigans.  Too bad it was a too wet to ride the slicer.

Looking forward to riding with you in your neck of the woods next summer!
Shawn
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on September 20, 2017, 10:05:50 PM
Gratuitous post to celebrate the installation of new carb parts and test ride.  Ran well, but had a bit of a surge at 1/4 throttle - lean?


(http://thumb.ibb.co/dyHkzQ/IMG_1542.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dyHkzQ)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/ee6pR5/IMG_1548.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ee6pR5)     (http://thumb.ibb.co/d4gLzQ/IMG_1550.jpg) (http://ibb.co/d4gLzQ)      .





Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Sheepdog on September 21, 2017, 08:02:50 AM
...sounds like you need to enrichen the idle mixture. Perhaps you could raise the needle a notch, also.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: jas67 on September 21, 2017, 10:21:38 AM
What are the two tubes the protrude forward under then engine, with the chrome cap?

(http://image.ibb.co/bTDF15/Screen_Shot_2017_09_21_at_11_18_39_AM.png) (http://imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: lti_57 on September 21, 2017, 02:12:27 PM
What are the two tubes the protrude forward under then engine, with the chrome cap?

(http://image.ibb.co/bTDF15/Screen_Shot_2017_09_21_at_11_18_39_AM.png) (http://imgbb.com/)

I asked the same question  I think he said springs for the  rear end like  Harley soft tail
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Guzzi Gal on September 21, 2017, 06:06:43 PM
Congratulations, it's a boy!   :wink:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Muzz on September 21, 2017, 06:46:37 PM
Congratulations, it's a boy!   :wink:

 :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on September 21, 2017, 08:54:57 PM
I asked the same question  I think he said springs for the  rear end like  Harley soft tail

Harley??? Isn't it more Buellish:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/hYrSW5/Buell_S1_Amee_Reehal_2_of_17.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hYrSW5)


Or Brittenish:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/jjPaJk/britten_v1000.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jjPaJk)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on September 21, 2017, 08:56:23 PM
Congratulations, it's a boy!   :wink:

HarHar!!!   :grin:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on September 21, 2017, 09:18:06 PM
Charlie (Antietam Cycle) recommended getting 7 mm steel rod from McMaster-Carr to make a new brake rod.

So:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/edcZB5/IMG_1545.jpg) (http://ibb.co/edcZB5)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/kNxqjQ/IMG_1563.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kNxqjQ)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/g19BPQ/IMG_1564.jpg) (http://ibb.co/g19BPQ)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/fB0wr5/IMG_1566.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fB0wr5)     (http://thumb.ibb.co/eKJ5jQ/IMG_1568.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eKJ5jQ)

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: canuck750 on September 21, 2017, 09:28:59 PM
Nice work, keep it coming! :1:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: siabeid on September 21, 2017, 10:10:38 PM
Did the new brake rod get rid of that flex, Shawn?
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on September 23, 2017, 12:23:42 PM
Did the new brake rod get rid of that flex, Shawn?

Yes.  Also did some re-adjusting including moving the pedal stop.  The rear brake feels much better and seems to stop better too.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: pehayes on September 23, 2017, 01:01:59 PM
I asked the same question  I think he said springs for the  rear end like  Harley soft tail

Yes and No.

Yes, they are a pair of long coil springs with a rod down the center of each which connects to the base of the swingarm.  When the swingarm pivots up under load, the rods are pulled and compress the springs.  Hence suspension.

No, they are not like Harley or Buell.  Guzzi perfected the concept long before them.  So, to be pedantic, Harley and Buell are like Guzzi.

I once went to a Chinese restaurant and ordered something obscure.  When it arrived I told the waiter it looked remarkably like ravioli.  With a scowl, he reminded me that Marco Polo went to China and brought back many ideas including some of cuisine.  He insisted that ravioli looked like this Chinese dish and not the other way round.  :-)

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on September 27, 2017, 11:16:21 PM
More parts from the old country!

(http://thumb.ibb.co/hbBduQ/IMG_1578.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hbBduQ)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/jqftTk/IMG_1580.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jqftTk)


That is a brand new oil tank!  (suitable for chrome)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/iX5rg5/0jrnc08a.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iX5rg5)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 28, 2017, 07:03:31 AM
A man with your talent coulda fabricated that..  :smiley:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on October 05, 2017, 10:11:54 PM
You honor me Chuck, but it's not true - especially in sheet metal.  I need so much practice!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on October 05, 2017, 10:55:45 PM
Time to sort the charging system which requires pulling the flywheel??!


(http://thumb.ibb.co/iOzQWG/IMG_1662.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iOzQWG)
   

So made a tool out of a pawnshop socket to remove the lock ring.  Left hand thread.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/duHCBG/IMG_1663.jpg) (http://ibb.co/duHCBG)


The clever thing is that the nut is right hand thread and the lock ring is left hand. Backing the flanged nut off against the lock ring works like a puller to pull the flywheel off the keyed taper.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/mSUsBG/IMG_1664.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mSUsBG)


Unfortunately, it must've been loose.  Part of the crank has spalled off around the key and the engagement with the engine drive gear is also worn.  Ugh!

(http://thumb.ibb.co/ipuW5b/IMG_1666.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ipuW5b)     (http://thumb.ibb.co/d2ofyw/IMG_1673.jpg) (http://ibb.co/d2ofyw)


Pull the primary cover...

(http://thumb.ibb.co/faifyw/IMG_1675.jpg) (http://ibb.co/faifyw)


WOW!  It looks so modern.  That gear on the top drives the generator.  Pull that nut and the generator can be removed.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/iCOKrG/IMG_1677.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iCOKrG)


Lots of metal particles and wear:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/dhEaWG/IMG_1678.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dhEaWG)


Generator out.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/kidikb/IMG_1686.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kidikb)


Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: jas67 on October 06, 2017, 10:28:21 AM
Do those gears run dry?    :huh:  I don't see any oil on them.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: pehayes on October 06, 2017, 11:18:09 AM
The spinning crankshaft flings oil all over the innards, including the transmission gears with common oil.  As the piston rises and falls it slightly pressurizes the crank chamber air.  Some of that air (now with a lot of oil mist) is ejected out into this primary gear chamber and coats everything.  There is even a crossing passage to allow some of that air/oil mist to eject out right above the chain pinion to serve as a continuous chain oiler.  Most find the chain oiler too messy and block the passage in favor of modern sprays.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on October 06, 2017, 04:30:12 PM
If you'd like to convert to a 12 volt alternator, it's possible to use an Alton alternator meant for a Vincent Comet. IIRC, I bought a replacement generator gear from Guzzino.com and did some minor machining to make it fit. Worked very well on my customer's Falcone.

http://alton-france.com/generators/

(http://alton-france.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/alton-acg02-vincent-comet.jpg)

(http://www.antietamclassiccycle.com/0e6f4370.jpg)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on October 06, 2017, 08:45:29 PM
Do those gears run dry?    :huh:  I don't see any oil on them.

The clutch had been really sticky so I'd rinsed the clutch & gear chamber with gasoline.  I'll be adding a little oil in the future.


Thanks for the Alton tip Charlie. The generator motors so may try to find a solid state 6V reg and make it work for now. 

Got some of the generator parts soaking and hope to put it back together clean this weekend.

Still got to figure out how to get the clutch apart to clean it up.


(http://thumb.ibb.co/hFLg6G/IMG_1689.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hFLg6G)


Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: pehayes on October 06, 2017, 09:36:26 PM
Still got to figure out how to get the clutch apart to clean it up.

Quite easy.  Go around the other side.  Unbolt the casting dome that handles the clutch lever.  Once that is off, look for the big knurled disc.  It is backwards threaded, so clockwise will remove it.  Then the springs, then the throwout rod.  All the clutch plates will now just fall out on the left side.  Careful about the center of the clutch basket gear.  Depending on your model it will have a simple bushing or may have a big bunch of roller bearing cylinders to fall and bounce all over the place.  Should be friction material plates inside and outside of the basket gear.  Bronze and steel discs can be cleaned and burrs filed away.

Ask again when you are ready for assembly as that can be a bit tricky.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on October 07, 2017, 01:53:20 PM
Thanks Patrick!  I'll document with photos. 

Your translation of the Guzzi manuals arrived yesterday - a million thanks. It will be very helpful.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on October 14, 2017, 11:41:36 PM
Videos!

My brother sent a link to videos he took of the Bacon Slicer the day after I got it running.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/zIKRVuURMzSu5tYr2

From the saddle a week or so later.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1B3Yd8SSkk&feature=youtu.be

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Rhodan on October 15, 2017, 08:21:14 AM
 :thumb:  Thank you!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: RinkRat II on October 15, 2017, 10:46:28 AM
 Great accomplishment and Videos! :thumb:      Slice On!!

      Paul B :boozing:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: canuck750 on October 15, 2017, 07:08:54 PM
Great video, thanks for posting, I want one even more now!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on October 16, 2017, 11:52:57 PM
Insulation was shot on the field leads.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/etOaRR/IMG_1690.jpg) (http://ibb.co/etOaRR)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/fj05RR/IMG_1724.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fj05RR)



The threaded end of the armature and the nut that holds the drive gear were cross threaded and would not draw up the gear (it was loose on the shaft when I pulled it apart). Threads are 9mm x 1.0, but Hardware Sales had both a tap and die. Clean up the shaft with a thread file then die. Re-tap the nut from the back side.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/mftLt6/IMG_1691.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mftLt6)



Clean up generator (commutator end was caked with grease).

(http://thumb.ibb.co/mdhKmR/IMG_1725.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mdhKmR)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/fqig0m/IMG_1723.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fqig0m)



The reassembled generator motors and shows a charge when driven on the lathe. The regulator cutouts (which are bolted to the end of the generator) click like they should.  But there is a big problem with the drive gear - cracked at the keyway!


(http://thumb.ibb.co/i0Cr0m/IMG_1747.jpg) (http://ibb.co/i0Cr0m)



Decided to reinforce the aluminum gear with a steel collar. Tried to find something more appropriate, but the best fit was 1/2" water pipe!  Bore out pipe and turn down gear to an interference fit.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/ffvm0m/IMG_1743.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ffvm0m)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/m2rR0m/IMG_1752.jpg) (http://ibb.co/m2rR0m)


Heat the steel pipe and push the aluminum gear into it. Cut off the pipe and turn it down to match the rest of the gear.  Bolt it up and Bob's your uncle.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/mXDjmR/IMG_1758.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mXDjmR)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/hyHYfm/IMG_1761.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hyHYfm)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/mm0at6/IMG_1763.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mm0at6)


Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: mjptexas on October 17, 2017, 07:57:36 AM
Wow!  Thanks for sharing all these tricks. How do you dream all these fixes up?
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: canuck750 on October 17, 2017, 10:05:01 AM
Brilliant  :thumb:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on October 17, 2017, 08:02:49 PM
Wow!  Thanks for sharing all these tricks. How do you dream all these fixes up?

(http://thumb.ibb.co/k0ggi6/IMG_1723smarts.jpg) (http://ibb.co/k0ggi6)     :wink:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on October 17, 2017, 08:45:22 PM
Attaboy..  :smiley:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on October 22, 2017, 11:00:30 PM
The woodruff key for the generator was hammered and sloppy so decided to file down a new one.  It took a couple tries.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/eyWEQm/IMG_1798.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eyWEQm)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/m94ZQm/IMG_1827.jpg) (http://ibb.co/m94ZQm)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/fasokm/IMG_1828.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fasokm)


Patrick Hayes helped with some clutch info (and an English translation of the shop manual!  Thanks Patrick.).  Once the flywheel and cover are off on the left, go to the right side and remove the clutch lever dome:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/g81g5m/IMG_1765.jpg) (http://ibb.co/g81g5m)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/gwREQm/IMG_1766.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gwREQm)


Remove the machined cap on the end of the clutch push-rod and you see that it is a bearing (with very worn balls).

(http://thumb.ibb.co/cSZLWR/IMG_1767.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cSZLWR)


Unthread the knurled knob to release the spring pressure on the clutch - it is left hand thread.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/dNub5m/IMG_1768.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dNub5m)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/d80G5m/IMG_1769.jpg) (http://ibb.co/d80G5m)


Then block the clutch basket on the left and unthread and remove the clutch push-rod which releases the sleeve with left-hand threads:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/kjEtkm/IMG_1771.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kjEtkm)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/bAGvy6/IMG_1772.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bAGvy6)


On the other side the clutch can come apart.  5 bronze and 5 steel plates plus two rings of asbestos(?) friction material. The geared clutch basket can then be removed.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/g8jb5m/IMG_1773.jpg) (http://ibb.co/g8jb5m)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/fvCky6/IMG_1774.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fvCky6)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/kW0urR/IMG_1775.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kW0urR)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/gjROkm/IMG_1778.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gjROkm)


Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on October 22, 2017, 11:23:52 PM
Clean up.  The threaded holes in the case were packed with grit.  The grit was so deep that some of the cover screws had been ground off to fit (this was also true of the timing cover on the right side).  Fortunately a new set of case screws came from Italy.  A look with a hand-lens showed the grit was largely broken quartz grains (glassy) with some darker minerals.  I've heard that many of these old Guzzis spent time in Libya and north Africa so was curious what Sahara sand looked like.  The photomicrograph is from Morocco and shows fewer dark minerals than I saw, but is similar in terms of size and angularity.  (Mountains around Mandello - and probably much of the Alps - are limestone) The sand and lack of care (grinding the screws rather than cleaning the holes) explains a lot of the wear.  I know I should pull the engine out of the frame and go through it, but not quite ready for that.... :tongue:  Amazing how tough these old singles are.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/i22w5m/IMG_1807.jpg) (http://ibb.co/i22w5m)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/cmLG5m/IMG_1809.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cmLG5m)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/eEU9Qm/Morocco_Sand.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eEU9Qm)


Cleaned the oil residue off the clutch plates and filed and burrs off.  Thickness of new bronze plates is 1mm.  These are thinner, but were working.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/eR44rR/IMG_1797.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eR44rR)


Jas67 noticed how dry the primary gears were. They normally get oil mist from the breather, but someone has added a spring over the check ball.  hmmm

(http://thumb.ibb.co/cDaG5m/IMG_1812.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cDaG5m) (http://thumb.ibb.co/kmHUQm/IMG_1813.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kmHUQm)


Cleaned parts in simple green, laundry detergent, gasoline and brake clean...

(http://thumb.ibb.co/mYAVy6/IMG_1787.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mYAVy6)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/iM3iJ6/IMG_1790.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iM3iJ6)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/fhzCBR/IMG_1791.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fhzCBR)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/nDNXBR/IMG_1801.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nDNXBR)


Gears are worn, but not much I can do about it. 
(http://thumb.ibb.co/d1XtJ6/IMG_1805.jpg) (http://ibb.co/d1XtJ6)


Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on October 23, 2017, 07:56:18 PM
Owe a big Thank you to Patrick Hayes for help with this.

Reassemble clutch. Order of parts is 1st fiber friction ring, geared basket, 2nd fiber friction ring, then steel and bronze plates and finally the clutch cover.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/gF95Y6/IMG_1814.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gF95Y6)


Slip the left hand thread sleeve over the pushrod, and insert rod in from the right with some grease and thread it into the clutch cover on the left.  I found that threading it as far as possible (2 threads protruding) gave good clutch adjustment.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/c1OhD6/IMG_1815.jpg) (http://ibb.co/c1OhD6)     (http://thumb.ibb.co/npVjRR/IMG_1821.jpg) (http://ibb.co/npVjRR)



The throw-out bearing on the end of the clutch pushrod looked like it was missing a ball or two. 1/8" balls from the local Hardware Store and lots of moly grease did the trick.  You can see the cap in the photos below.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/cSZLWR/IMG_1767.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cSZLWR)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/d1UEt6/IMG_1781.jpg) (http://ibb.co/d1UEt6)



Install the two clutch springs and the left hand threaded knurled knob.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/iOgzRR/IMG_1817.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iOgzRR)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/jiaR6R/IMG_1818.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jiaR6R)



Playing with the length of the pushrod and adjustment indicated that the clutch pull gets stiffer as the bronze plates wear.  First picture shows throw-out bearing cap and hardened contact piece under the lever. Second shows cover on and clutch adjusted.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/dVx9t6/IMG_1823.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dVx9t6)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/d2AUt6/IMG_1824.jpg) (http://ibb.co/d2AUt6)


Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on October 23, 2017, 09:11:19 PM
Slide generator into place (with rubber sealing washer), gingerly tighten repaired drive gear and adjust gear mesh by rotating generator in its cradle.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/kaUdmR/IMG_1832.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kaUdmR)


Engine drive gear is keyed to flywheel and had worn deep notches in flywheel.  I welded up the notches and filed them back into shape.  It is difficult to get the taper on the flywheel concentric with the bore of the drive gear without an arbor of some kind.  Too late I figured it out, but it's close - there is just enough slop to allow the drive gear to slide on the shaft. (the drive gear sits against a strong spring that works as an engine shock absorber)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dWajRR/IMG_1673.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dWajRR)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/h557fm/IMG_1829.jpg) (http://ibb.co/h557fm)



Ready for the cover with new screws.  The cover presses against the drive gear and its cush spring so must be tightened (and loosened) evenly.   :bike-037:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/hWGPRR/IMG_1838.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hWGPRR)  (http://thumb.ibb.co/mTKdmR/IMG_1839.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mTKdmR)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/emCqi6/IMG_1840.jpg) (http://ibb.co/emCqi6)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Muzz on October 24, 2017, 02:09:17 AM
 :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Some really interesting stuff here.

That suggested 12 volt mod would make a world of difference to the lighting.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: jas67 on October 24, 2017, 08:11:05 AM
 :popcorn:
I've enjoyed following your progress.    Such a cool project!     Plus, you're preserve a bit of Guzzi history to be enjoyed for many years to come.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on October 31, 2017, 12:41:35 AM
:popcorn:
I've enjoyed following your progress.    Such a cool project!     Plus, you're preserve a bit of Guzzi history to be enjoyed for many years to come.

Thanks!  We are all just caretakers.  Best I can do it to pass it on in a condition that others will value.

The whole goal of pulling the flywheel was to get the generator working but then there were a couple of setbacks...

First was how the heck to hook up the generator???  Searched wiring diagrams, but it didn't match any Guzzi, Marelli or Bosch diagram I could find.  It was a mess with wires connected to the wrong terminals, cut wires, twist splices and every wire a stealthy shade of black (all but 2 or 3).  Clearly wiring had been a low priority.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/fHDsmR/IMG_1842.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fHDsmR)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/m6SUY6/IMG_1860.jpg) (http://ibb.co/m6SUY6)


Then there was the weird headlight switch which seemed in good condition except the "key cylinder" had been cut in half and then epoxied back together.  (WHY??!)  And there was the funky spring and a key that is too short. 
(http://thumb.ibb.co/gDXUY6/IMG_1848.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gDXUY6)


And finally investigated some oozing on the tank.  Rust between the steel and brass repair - UGH!

(http://thumb.ibb.co/hoAGD6/IMG_1854.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hoAGD6)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/iEjXmR/IMG_1862.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iEjXmR)


First step (after draining the tank) was drawing up a wiring diagram that matched this bike (which seems to have the wrong light switch).  Can any electrical gurus confirm if this will work?   

(http://thumb.ibb.co/d7A8t6/IMG_1891.jpg) (http://ibb.co/d7A8t6)

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on October 31, 2017, 08:57:06 AM
(http://thumb.ibb.co/iEjXmR/IMG_1862.jpg)

I wouldn't be afraid to braze that. After a fair amount of prep and making sure the rust isn't a much bigger area, of course. Keep choppin wood.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: pehayes on October 31, 2017, 10:30:05 AM
Sean:  I just saw your clutch rebuild report.  Two suggestions.  First, all the books are adamant that the clutch pushrod should protrude from the pressure plate by "not more than one thread".  It is a 6X1 threaded rod, so one thread is 1mm.  You adjusted to 2mm.  There is some risk of the tip of that rod hitting the inner face of the left side cover and preventing full release of the clutch.  Might work, might not.  Be prepared.  Second, the original button bearing probably used 3mm balls.  Mixing ball dimensions might cause an issue.  It is a pretty crude bearing for sure.  I fabricate a modern, caged ball button bearing which runs smooth as silk.  Mine on the blue Falcone is approaching 5K miles.  I'll send you one.


(http://thumb.ibb.co/cYH0aw/MVC_181L.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cYH0aw)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/js8TTG/MVC_183L.jpg) (http://ibb.co/js8TTG)

free image hosting sites (http://imgbb.com/)


Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on October 31, 2017, 10:32:54 AM
^^^^  :smiley: :thumb:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on October 31, 2017, 12:49:16 PM
I looked at the schematic, it seems to follow the typical Guzzi wiring.
If you open one of Carl Allison's drawings of the same era (doesn't have to be the same model) you should be able to piece it together, I'm sure the ignition switch would be the same from model to model.
1938 Ercole            http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1938_Ercole.gif
1939 Airone 250ST  http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1939_Airone-250ST.gif
1946 Superlace       http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1946_Superalce.gif

Even the 51 Falcone has some of the same features
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1951_Falcone.gif

Carl's drawings are a wonderful resource  :bow:

Actually the Ercole is the only one with a brake light

This is a great project, excellent work.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on October 31, 2017, 09:49:06 PM
Sean:  I just saw your clutch rebuild report.  Two suggestions.  First, all the books are adamant that the clutch pushrod should protrude from the pressure plate by "not more than one thread".  It is a 6X1 threaded rod, so one thread is 1mm.  You adjusted to 2mm.  There is some risk of the tip of that rod hitting the inner face of the left side cover and preventing full release of the clutch.  Might work, might not.  Be prepared.  Second, the original button bearing probably used 3mm balls.  Mixing ball dimensions might cause an issue.  It is a pretty crude bearing for sure.  I fabricate a modern, caged ball button bearing which runs smooth as silk.  Mine on the blue Falcone is approaching 5K miles.  I'll send you one.


(http://thumb.ibb.co/cYH0aw/MVC_181L.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cYH0aw)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/js8TTG/MVC_183L.jpg) (http://ibb.co/js8TTG)

free image hosting sites (http://imgbb.com/)


Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Wow - Thanks Patrick!  The new balls are all 1/8" so just a skosh more than 3mm, but they are running on old, pitted races. (the old balls were really worn down).

As for the pushrod.  1mm is probably with new plates.  As the plates get thinner (the bronze plates are worn) the pressure plate moves away from the cover and into the basket.  Just double checked the clutch throw and the cover doesn't limit disengagement.

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on October 31, 2017, 09:56:53 PM
I looked at the schematic, it seems to follow the typical Guzzi wiring.
If you open one of Carl Allison's drawings of the same era (doesn't have to be the same model) you should be able to piece it together, I'm sure the ignition switch would be the same from model to model.
1938 Ercole            http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1938_Ercole.gif
1939 Airone 250ST  http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1939_Airone-250ST.gif
1946 Superlace       http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1946_Superalce.gif

Even the 51 Falcone has some of the same features
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1951_Falcone.gif

Carl's drawings are a wonderful resource  :bow:

Actually the Ercole is the only one with a brake light

This is a great project, excellent work.

Thanks Roy!  Appreciate your expert eye.  I did use Carl's diagrams but I also used these two.  The Super Alce diagram (top) is from a very helpful blog:
http://superalcerestoration-j2maria.blogspot.com/2010/09/bike-came-without-any-wiring-bulbs.html


(http://thumb.ibb.co/nK1PJG/Wiring1948_Alce.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nK1PJG)
 (http://thumb.ibb.co/e6y4JG/125_Wiring_Diagram.jpg) (http://ibb.co/e6y4JG)
 
   
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on November 02, 2017, 01:08:22 AM
The screwed up ignition switch was another excuse to use the lathe.

Switch as it arrived and how it should look on the right.  Notice that the "lock cylinder" has been cut in half and the key is too short.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/d2Gofw/IMG_1848mod.jpg) (http://ibb.co/d2Gofw)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/mfKc7b/guzzino_2263_47855814.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mfKc7b)


Why would they cut the "lock cylinder" - to shorten it???

The external hex of a 1/4 x 28 coupling nut is the perfect size to fit the switch plate (about 11mm) and the 1/4" shaft of a shouldered 1/4 x 29 bolt is the perfect size to fit the phenolic circuit board (about 6mm) so I screwed the two together and then chucked it in the lathe to cut it into shape.  Also had to drill a hole through it.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/n04MYG/IMG_1874.jpg) (http://ibb.co/n04MYG)
   


First picture shows the end of the coupling nut turned down on the lathe. Notch was cut with dremel.  Third shows the shank of the bolt cut to fit the phenolic circuit board. 
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dD4zLw/IMG_1877.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dD4zLw)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/jVSVSb/IMG_1879.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jVSVSb)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/jB5TDG/IMG_1878.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jB5TDG)
     

Then found a key on ebay. Pagani name on key matches the switch bezel!  Polished chrome with bronze wool.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/jN3tfw/IMG_1906.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jN3tfw)
 
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 02, 2017, 07:07:56 AM
 :thumb: Nice looking chip coming of the lathe..
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on November 04, 2017, 01:07:59 AM
:thumb: Nice looking chip coming of the lathe..

Thank you Chuck.  I'm learnin'

Rewiring was necessary. Most wires were too small and black.  Generator wires had been cut and were too short. Conductivity meter revealed much of it was mis-wired.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/fDQqTG/IMG_1841.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fDQqTG)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/bXyoFw/IMG_1849.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bXyoFw)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/ipa2aw/IMG_1859.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ipa2aw)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/dgU62b/IMG_1902.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dgU62b)
.

Draw it up and wire it.  (Thanks Roy)  Didn't have enough of all colors so wire colors don't match diagram...  :rolleyes:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/cbSFvw/IMG_1891.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cbSFvw)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/i5Gx8G/IMG_1882.jpg) (http://ibb.co/i5Gx8G)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/f9ejoG/IMG_1881.jpg) (http://ibb.co/f9ejoG)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/bRe62b/IMG_1884.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bRe62b)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/e2HFvw/IMG_1886.jpg) (http://ibb.co/e2HFvw)     (http://thumb.ibb.co/bwLqTG/IMG_1885.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bwLqTG)


Added a ground wire from the headlight bucket to the frame & battery and another ground wire from the taillight to the frame & battery.  Almost forgot the horn ground went back to the headlight bucket and had to be included in the main harness...

Old faded plastic 1960 taillight replaced by repop '30s taillight ($$$$$).  Repop takes weird 31mm "Festoon" bulbs.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/jQmKNb/IMG_1900.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jQmKNb)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/k6aPoG/IMG_1905.jpg) (http://ibb.co/k6aPoG)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/kAzH8G/IMG_1910.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kAzH8G)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/b0q2aw/IMG_1914.jpg) (http://ibb.co/b0q2aw)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/n6V2aw/IMG_1919.jpg) (http://ibb.co/n6V2aw)


Still have to wire up the generator and horn while waiting for the correct "festoon" bulbs....
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on November 05, 2017, 11:28:13 AM
Horn made some noises but not really a honk.  Take apart, clean the outside and the points:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/jBWAVw/IMG_1921.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jBWAVw)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/m7QtiG/IMG_1922.jpg) (http://ibb.co/m7QtiG)


A little points adjustment and HONK (not very loud).



There have been setbacks... :embarrassed:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/dKnpOG/IMG_1888.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dKnpOG)


Some final connections...

(http://thumb.ibb.co/kAQR3G/IMG_1923.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kAQR3G)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/gFFFxb/IMG_1924.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gFFFxb)


Fired it up and the lights and horn worked as they should (still waiting for a tail light bulb) and charge indicator light went out.
 Battery showed a 7volt charge when revved.

But generator bearing growling - gear mesh is probably too tight...  :rolleyes:




Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on November 11, 2017, 08:21:44 PM
It's been an eventful week...

The tight generator gear was addressed by installing a thin steel shim under it.  Not sure why it needs it, but a previous worker  had used an Italian sparkplug application chart (Candella in Italian) as a shim.  (The chart lists "V7" as the newest Guzzi so this bodge may have happened almost 50 years ago!)  The generator case needs to be grounded and, as cardstock is not known to pass electrons easily, the charging system probably stopped working all together.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/dg9zhb/IMG_1834.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dg9zhb)


The leaking gas tank was repaired with JBWeld in the hopes that it may be repaired someday. 

Everything was connected up and decided to deliver our mail-in ballots to the courthouse as a test ride.  I relished the irony of riding the Mussolini era bike to deliver ballots for democracy.  Everything went well, except for a dragging clutch, until about 1.5 miles from home when the failure to charge light came on.  This was pretty quickly followed by some ugly rattling and grunching sounds... :cry: 

Took a picture when I got home.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/mGq3sb/IMG_1926.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mGq3sb)
 
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on November 11, 2017, 09:08:13 PM
This was a near mechanical disaster and easily avoided so I'm giving it a separate posting. It is an embarrassing oversight, but hopefully this saves someone else from doing it.

LOCKTITE or SAFETY WIRE the generator gear nut!  There is no hole in the shaft or nut so securing it is dependent on wrenching it down which is probably why the aluminum gear cracked in the first place.  I didn't think to locktite it... :rolleyes:

When the nut comes off it bounces around between those nice helical cut teeth in the primary. Chips fly off the teeth and the nut comes out looking like a baby peeled carrot.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/hfJZyG/41_K6_NKWX_L_SX355.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hfJZyG)


Patrick Hayes tells me it is a common enough failure that mechanics bring a spare set of primary gears with them on slicer tours.  The  crank gear is steel and I couldn't see a mark on it - but the clutch gear is cast iron so that it fails before bending a shaft or breaking a crankcase (ouch!).  First picture shows the primary carnage and the second the worst tooth.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/ebDjyG/IMG_1929.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ebDjyG)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/iJmF5w/IMG_1932.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iJmF5w)


I've yet to find replacements so decided to clean it up and try it.  Three gear teeth overlap so no single tooth gets all the load.
Amazingly everything was still usable (after some work) - the carrotized nut, the aluminum gear, the woodruff key...

(http://thumb.ibb.co/bKinkw/IMG_1935.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bKinkw)


Went out for a 15 mile test ride up to 50 mph or so and there is no noticeable noise from the primary.  Battery even ended the ride about 0.3 volts above where it started  :boozing:   This doesn't sound like much but this is a very old 30 watt generator and regulator trying to keep up with a 25 watt headlight...
 :bike-037:

The other avoidable mistake in all of this was the clutch adjustment.  You may remember that Mr. Hayes wrote "First, all the books are adamant that the clutch pushrod should protrude from the pressure plate by "not more than one thread".  It is a 6X1 threaded rod, so one thread is 1mm.  You adjusted to 2mm."  He is right - that sucker dragged like crazy.  Readjusting the rod gives a lighter clutch that doesn't drag (as much).  I need to learn to listen...
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on November 11, 2017, 09:47:47 PM
New knee action dampers cost about what cheap new hydraulic shocks cost.  The ends of the dampers pivot on the pins in the frame and swing arm and wear them badly so new replacements are a pretty sensible option if they are worn like these.  (but I didn't know that  :rolleyes:)

Clean up with new fasteners, friction disks and spring stars:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/fpP4Xb/IMG_1948.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fpP4Xb)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/ekfpyG/IMG_1950.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ekfpyG)


Decided to ride it to the club meet today despite the threat of rain - almost 50 miles round trip and it was still charging (weakly) at the end.  It even attracted a crowd. 

(http://thumb.ibb.co/h6mUyG/IMG_1953a.jpg) (http://ibb.co/h6mUyG)


Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on November 18, 2017, 09:00:44 PM
The slicer's been a little tough on the ego with some stupid mistakes - especially compared to some of the stellar work by many of you on here. Been admiring Canuck's LeMans rebuild - beautiful!

Winter is setting in so it's time to pull the slicer's engine.  There were metal flakes in the oil when I first got it.  It makes lots of gear noise in 2nd and 3rd, and jumps out of those gears as well. 

I owe a big thanks to Patrick Hayes translation of the GTV shop manual.   :thumb:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/mB4z7m/IMG_1959.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mB4z7m)



Left side before and after:  Pull or disconnect battery.  Pull foot rest, brake pedal and brake linkage.  This is a good time to pull the right foot rest too, but REPLACE the tie bolt - it holds the frame together. (ask me how I know  :rolleyes:)   Pull flywheel and kickstart lever.  Pull fuel lines, then pull intake manifold bolts while leaving carb on manifold - just unscrew top ring and pull throttle slide when pulling carb and manifold together.  Disconnect ignition advance cable and sparkplug lead. 

(http://thumb.ibb.co/e6TWL6/IMG_1957.jpg) (http://ibb.co/e6TWL6)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/euB1L6/IMG_1964.jpg) (http://ibb.co/euB1L6)



Right side before and after:  Pull foot rest.  Pull gear lever and linkage. Pull exhaust and extract kickstart shaft.  Disconnect wires from generator and horn, then pull horn. Disconnect clutch and compression release cables.  Remove drive chain.  Pull oil lines from pump.  Remove lower crankcase oil fitting that passes through frame.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/eu397m/IMG_1960.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eu397m)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/iT3y06/IMG_1965.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iT3y06)



The manual shows pulling the entire gear change ratchet body off the shaft, but it was seized on the taper - engine can still be removed provided you can get the right side nut off the tie bolt.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/dVKff6/IMG_1969.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dVKff6)



Shop manual makes no mention of removing the right side petcock, oil tank, rocker box oil drain or chain guard, but clearances are so tight and engine is so heavy they had to be pulled.  Slide the engine forward 5cm and pull out to the right and back.  While doing this the valve spring also needs to pushed past the frame downtube.  The engine weighs about the same as a small block Chevy so good to have help.  :boozing:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/ccRRL6/IMG_1980.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ccRRL6)     (http://thumb.ibb.co/bWMhtR/IMG_1982.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bWMhtR)



Finally able to confirm engine number.  Wonder if the stamping in the frame indicates it is a GTV?  (GTC, GTS and GTW used the same frame)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/mD0mL6/IMG_1984.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mD0mL6)  (http://thumb.ibb.co/d0wRL6/IMG_1986mod.jpg) (http://ibb.co/d0wRL6)

   
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: pehayes on November 18, 2017, 11:55:18 PM
The leaking gas tank was repaired with JBWeld in the hopes that it may be repaired someday. 


Next time you find a leaking fuel/oil tank, try SEAL-ALL from your local hardware supplier.  Clear like model airplane glue.  Impervious to fuel.  Couple of coats does the job.  I've used it successfully many times.  Sometimes temporary until I could do a full restoration.  Sometimes just permanent out of view.

(http://eclecticproducts.com/media/catalog/product/s/e/seal-all-1.0-carded-tube-us.jpg)

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on November 19, 2017, 10:41:41 PM
Next time you find a leaking fuel/oil tank, try SEAL-ALL from your local hardware supplier.  Clear like model airplane glue.  Impervious to fuel.  Couple of coats does the job.  I've used it successfully many times.  Sometimes temporary until I could do a full restoration.  Sometimes just permanent out of view.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Thanks Patrick,  I'll look for it.  Hopefully wont need to use it!

First order of business is to pull the gear change ratchet box that was seized.  With a little more room a puller would fit and a propane torch could be applied to good effect.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/fJDaf6/IMG_1994.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fJDaf6)


Then pull rocker box, pushrod tube, head and cylinder.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/iTQ5f6/IMG_1996.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iTQ5f6)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/fS5StR/IMG_2000.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fS5StR)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/nsCwnm/IMG_2001.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nsCwnm)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/euZWL6/IMG_2003.jpg) (http://ibb.co/euZWL6)


Pull primary cover (loosen and tighten bolts evenly or cover can be distorted by engine shock absorber spring), clutch pushrod and springs from right side, clutch and generator.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/dfkADR/IMG_2009.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dfkADR)


Pull timing cover and oil pump.  Make note of timing marks at TDC compression stroke. Loosen magneto shaft bolt a couple turns, loosen mag strap and rap on bolt head with a lead hammer to free the drive gear from the taper (according to the manual!).  The crankcase casting is 5-6mm thick so supports the gear pretty well, but the mag shaft is brass.  It worked!  Felt seal had polished away a lot of the case!

(http://thumb.ibb.co/cDXXtR/IMG_2010.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cDXXtR)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/cfkkDR/IMG_2016.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cfkkDR)



Weirdly the mag was shimmed like the generator with more of the sparkplug application chart.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/mFHAf6/IMG_2014.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mFHAf6)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/e2QwL6/IMG_2015.jpg) (http://ibb.co/e2QwL6)



Hard part was pulling the kick start ratchet.  Manual suggests using a hook spanner and holding the clutch hub nut with a socket wrench.  But what if the clutch hub nut comes loose and the kickstart ratchet is seized?  The flywheel lock nut is the same size and I've already made that tool - so fire up the impact gun!  Once off the threads, the nut is still trapped by a key on the hollow shaft so must be aligned to remove.  Drive sprocket is held by a similar notched nut.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/i1E9OR/IMG_2018mod.jpg) (http://ibb.co/i1E9OR)  (http://thumb.ibb.co/imjb3R/1948_Kickstart.jpg) (http://ibb.co/imjb3R)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/jkJfV6/IMG_2022.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jkJfV6)


Once the drive sprocket, mag and timing gears and generator and primary gears are removed the cases can be separated.  There are 3 small 6mm fasteners and about six 8mm fasteners. Most are obvious, but the one below the generator (lower arrow) is easy to miss if you put your nuts back on the studs for safe keeping.  :rolleyes:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/j92FV6/IMG_2018mod2.jpg) (http://ibb.co/j92FV6)


Number 13 must've put this engine together originally - his stamp is all over it.  Manual says to suspend the crankcase with the timing side up and beat on the transmission and gearbox shafts with a wooden mallet.  Working around it with a block of wood works too.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/ch3Hcm/IMG_2025.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ch3Hcm)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/jYGQV6/1948Case.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jYGQV6)      (http://thumb.ibb.co/jieOHm/IMG_2026.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jieOHm)



Guzzi's shop manual claims the bearings are over-sized to last more than 1,000 hours - Look at the size of the crank bearings!!!  35 x 80 x 21  The gear shift cam is also huge compared to the equivalent Burman unit in the Ariel.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/kzbLxm/IMG_2029.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kzbLxm)


Unfortunately the bearings have been enthusiastically staked in by a previous worker so may be difficult to replace.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/bQjvV6/IMG_2038.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bQjvV6)     (http://thumb.ibb.co/d3evV6/IMG_2039.jpg) (http://ibb.co/d3evV6)     (http://thumb.ibb.co/iuOYHm/IMG_2042.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iuOYHm)


Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 20, 2017, 07:10:59 AM
"Don't want them bearins commin out, Jethro.."  :rolleyes:
Maybe make up a hardened peen punch and try to work the peened over area back, then grind as necessary?
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on November 20, 2017, 08:52:35 PM
"Don't want them bearins commin out, Jethro.."  :rolleyes:
Maybe make up a hardened peen punch and try to work the peened over area back, then grind as necessary?

That's a great idea.  Interestingly the shop manual doesn't mention heating the case to install and remove bearings.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on November 22, 2017, 11:51:29 PM
Cool Slicer engine rebuild timelapse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6cWvLkH5_U

Their engine looks so clean!
(http://thumb.ibb.co/meUo56/maxresdefault.jpg) (http://ibb.co/meUo56)

image upload html (http://imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on November 26, 2017, 08:51:14 PM
Before and after cleanup pictures.  Inside the cases was incredibly sooty from the worn carb and poor tuning.  (Interesting that the crank bearings are held in brass collars cast into the crankcase. For strength?)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/mSN1dR/IMG_2055mod.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mSN1dR)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/ckoJQ6/IMG_2060.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ckoJQ6)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/hwqMdR/IMG_2086.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hwqMdR)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/jvfyQ6/IMG_2087.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jvfyQ6)



Used Chuck's technique to peen back the metal retaining the bearings and got all but this one.  Gordie offered to lend his HF blind bearing puller - a little heat, a little slide-hammer = worked great.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/nnJtQ6/IMG_2067.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nnJtQ6)
 


Only other bearing was the outer race of the drive side roller that had been installed by #13 in about 1946. Drilled two small holes behind the race and used a pin punch (and some heat). Other side of holes opens into primary which is lubed by engine oil vapor.  Will seal the holes with Silicone or JBWeld.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/gwKYQ6/IMG_2066.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gwKYQ6)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/du9056/IMG_2073mod.jpg) (http://ibb.co/du9056)



Connecting rod journal still has hone marks - though something made a mark on the crank and rollers. 

(http://thumb.ibb.co/iaAZXm/IMG_2082.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iaAZXm)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/cxDosm/IMG_2084.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cxDosm)
 
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: canuck750 on November 27, 2017, 10:31:48 AM
Are you able to find new bearings in the USA?

I am following with keen interest in the hopes that one day I can fond one of these to tackle.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: pehayes on November 27, 2017, 12:21:31 PM
The two large bearings on both ends of the transmission primary shaft will be an issue.  If they feel good, leave them alone.  The bearings are 13mm width.  They are no longer produced by anyone in the world.  There is a guy in Germany who takes 15mm wide bearings and does a double side re-grind to bring the width down to 13mm.  http://www.peters-bearing.de/index.php (http://www.peters-bearing.de/index.php)  Very expensive detailed and time consuming work to be accurate.  Other bearings are nominal and available.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on November 28, 2017, 11:04:37 PM
Are you able to find new bearings in the USA?

What Patrick says - though didn't know about Peters Bearings.  Can get trans primary bearings from Italy for 90 Euro but they may have originally been modified by Peters.  (or 220E for all but the conrod rollers)  The drive side 13mm bearing seems OK, but the clutch bearing is toast.

Went to an online bearing house and thought I was ordering from the USA, but when the payment went through it was to France!  :rolleyes:  Oh well, back when I was riding bicycles a lot the joke was that it was good luck to have a French part on your bike - something to do about the Tour de France.   :wink:

Most bearings have been standard size, but the front wheel bearings, and the generator drive end bearing (and trans Mainshaft bearings) are not.

Remove crank oilway plug and clean out.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/ex2Spb/IMG_2098.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ex2Spb)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/h1bL9b/IMG_2099.jpg) (http://ibb.co/h1bL9b)

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on November 28, 2017, 11:13:42 PM
Carlo suggested cleaning parts with Simple Green and it works great!

(http://thumb.ibb.co/bCxtUb/IMG_2093.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bCxtUb)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/hNia9b/IMG_2094.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hNia9b)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/c9uXpb/IMG_2095.jpg) (http://ibb.co/c9uXpb)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/jqukaG/IMG_2088.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jqukaG)



Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: oldbike54 on November 28, 2017, 11:18:38 PM
 What a great thread  :bow: Lovely bike  :thumb:

 Dusty

 
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on November 28, 2017, 11:54:30 PM
What a great thread  :bow: Lovely bike  :thumb:

 Dusty

Thank you Dusty.  It's a fun project but I'm too impatient and too cheap!  :tongue:  Recently been shoring up the Italian economy with greenbacks.  Probably should have originally posted in projects, but I was hoping to reach as many bacon slicer owners as possible 'cause I know so little about them. 
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: canuck750 on November 29, 2017, 06:07:39 PM
Thanks for the updates, please keep them coming!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: oldbike54 on November 29, 2017, 06:14:39 PM
Thank you Dusty.  It's a fun project but I'm too impatient and too cheap!  :tongue:  Recently been shoring up the Italian economy with greenbacks.  Probably should have originally posted in projects, but I was hoping to reach as many bacon slicer owners as possible 'cause I know so little about them.

 We can move it later , but right now I agree with your idea .

 Dusty
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 29, 2017, 07:39:09 PM
We can move it later , but right now I agree with your idea .

 Dusty

true. You kinda have to blow the dust off the completed project area once in a while.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Rhodan on December 02, 2017, 09:20:44 AM
I wanted to add a "thank you" for posting it here.  I normally only pop in for a few minutes at a time and this thread is one I always look for.  I've been having a ton of vicarious fun watching it come back to life and the inventive lathe (and other) work it's taken.

I probably wouldn't have seen it in the other section though I should pop in there more often.  I love these threads.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on December 04, 2017, 10:35:17 PM
Thanks for the support and comments!  Glad there is  still interest.  Hopefully it helps people in the future.

1930s technology roller cam followers.  Rollers are worn, bronze shrubbings are 0.010" + oversize.  New from Italy.
 
(http://thumb.ibb.co/gFuPaG/IMG_2110.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gFuPaG)


Drill the pin 1/3 and drive it out with a punch. 

(http://thumb.ibb.co/nyMsUb/IMG_2113.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nyMsUb)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/i7Ze9b/IMG_2112.jpg) (http://ibb.co/i7Ze9b)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/dK8ZaG/IMG_2115.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dK8ZaG)


Tip: check for burrs on the pin and polish with 1500 wet or dry.  (This one had bad burrs on both pins, especially at the oil holes.)  Insert the roller, bushing and pin. Back the pin on an anvil or vice and strike it with a center punch. Tip: flipping follower over after every strike will help center the pin.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/nmzFFG/IMG_2117.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nmzFFG)


Tip: install the cam followers and check the clearance between the ends of the flared pins and file so that there is at least 0.030" clearance between them.

Cam and rocker axles are supposed to be a tight fit in the cases, but had worn over time.  Insert axle in hole, back up with a maple block and use a punch around the bore to close it up.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/n0Hfhw/IMG_2119.jpg) (http://ibb.co/n0Hfhw)


Cam axle is badly worn.  Quote for hard chrome and grinding to size is pushing $400.  Haven't found a replacement.  I could (maybe) turn one on the lathe, but I'd have to find the right steel and have it hardened - not sure how to do that yet.  Temporarily rotate the cam axle away from the max wear and shim the end play. 

(http://thumb.ibb.co/dvKzaG/IMG_2121.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dvKzaG)


Fit all the pieces and close the cover to check play.  Much tighter than before.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/k3dsvG/IMG_2124.jpg) (http://ibb.co/k3dsvG)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/g84nUb/IMG_2126.jpg) (http://ibb.co/g84nUb)
 
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 05, 2017, 07:33:27 AM
Quote
but I'd have to find the right steel and have it hardened -

Do you have an ox/acetylene torch?
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on December 05, 2017, 07:59:51 PM
Do you have an ox/acetylene torch?
I don't, but I have friends!  :)

Heard stories of case hardening by getting the piece red hot and dropping it in a can of carbon powder or something.  s'pose I could google this.  A local machine shop has an oven for hardening too.

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Guzzi Gal on December 05, 2017, 09:07:45 PM
Do you have an ox/acetylene torch?

The best gift my husband ever gave me, other than our children, was one of these! 
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on December 05, 2017, 10:04:51 PM
Great xmas present idea!   :thumb:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Aaron D. on December 06, 2017, 06:16:32 AM
Best invention ever. Seriously.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 06, 2017, 07:58:37 AM
I don't, but I have friends!  :)

Heard stories of case hardening by getting the piece red hot and dropping it in a can of carbon powder or something.  s'pose I could google this.  A local machine shop has an oven for hardening too.

If you have friends with an oven, that will of course be best. If you absolutely have to, you can get some water hardening drill rod, machine it, heat it to carrot color and drop it (vertically) in a bucket of water. It will now be too hard to use, so polish the scale off, and *very carefully* heat with the torch until it is the color of straw. At this point drop it in the water again. It will go from straw to blue very rapidly.. don't let that happen, or it will be too soft.
That is quick and dirty heat treat 101.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on December 06, 2017, 08:18:47 PM
If you have friends with an oven, that will of course be best. If you absolutely have to, you can get some water hardening drill rod, machine it, heat it to carrot color and drop it (vertically) in a bucket of water. It will now be too hard to use, so polish the scale off, and *very carefully* heat with the torch until it is the color of straw. At this point drop it in the water again. It will go from straw to blue very rapidly.. don't let that happen, or it will be too soft.
That is quick and dirty heat treat 101.

Thanks Chuck - I would mess that up without a lot of practice!

Lots of goodies just arrived from the old country - including a solid state voltage regulator for the generator.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/g7eEAG/IMG_2134.jpg) (http://ibb.co/g7eEAG)


and a complete set of NEW helical gears for the primary (!)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/mDzsxw/IMG_2135.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mDzsxw)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/jRVzcw/IMG_2136.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jRVzcw)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on December 10, 2017, 10:05:00 PM
While waiting for the last few bearings to arrive...

10mm OD tubing from McMaster-Carr to make a new pushrod (thanks Charlie!). Drill tube out to 8mm, trim so rod-end will seat, find socket to protect end, clamp other end in soft jaws and heat tube with torch, hit socket with hammer.  Roll test for straightness.  Because the wall is thicker than stock it weighs 1.3x the stock tube so will put on the intake valve which has a smaller diameter stem and slightly lighter.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/fvg5pb/IMG_2147.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fvg5pb) (http://thumb.ibb.co/gr1iaG/IMG_2146.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gr1iaG) (http://thumb.ibb.co/gSay9b/IMG_2151.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mOiUFG) (http://thumb.ibb.co/havy9b/IMG_2141.jpg) (http://ibb.co/havy9b) (http://thumb.ibb.co/mOiUFG/IMG_2139.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nBi72w)



Bought a GUZZI petcock to replace the leaking "sugar cube" type (bad gasket). It is a match for the left petcock.  A little clean up and polishing of the sealing taper.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/fesT9b/IMG_2154.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fesT9b)  (http://thumb.ibb.co/nBi72w/IMG_2152.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gSay9b)  (http://thumb.ibb.co/dEmzFG/IMG_2153.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dEmzFG)  (http://thumb.ibb.co/cUKKFG/IMG_2157.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cUKKFG) (http://thumb.ibb.co/cwDDaG/IMG_2160.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cwDDaG)
 


Installed the solid stage voltage regulator.  Test on the lathe showed a steady 7.25 volts on an under-charged battery.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/fbUapb/IMG_1723_Mod.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fbUapb)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/dEDwvG/IMG_2134crop.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dEDwvG)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/g5qtaG/IMG_2164.jpg) (http://ibb.co/g5qtaG)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on December 10, 2017, 11:13:53 PM
 :thumb:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on December 23, 2017, 05:50:39 PM
Just in time for Christmas!

(http://thumb.ibb.co/md6Apm/IMG_2311.jpg) (http://ibb.co/md6Apm)
 


(http://thumb.ibb.co/haaZh6/IMG_2313.jpg) (http://ibb.co/haaZh6)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on January 01, 2018, 08:20:14 PM
Still waiting on transmission bearings so decided to investigate the girder fork. This fork does not have the weird brazing repairs that the original does. 

Brits call these "girder" while the Italians call them "Parallelogramma" forks. Parallelogram better describes how they work.

Seller said "they may require straightening as the lower left side is splayed out . Some forks came that way to allow for different wheel brake dimensions".  He sent pictures that avoided the damage so was not prepared for the noodle it really is...  Why must some people try to manipulate everything to their advantage? :angry: 

(http://thumb.ibb.co/kQjpRb/Fork1.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kQjpRb)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/b8dusG/Fork5.jpg) (http://ibb.co/b8dusG)



Left side of the fork had been hit so hard that both tubes were S shaped and the leg was splayed out and pushed back. 

(http://thumb.ibb.co/ehkhUw/IMG_2361.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ehkhUw)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/bCzbpw/IMG_2362.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bCzbpw)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/evYQhG/IMG_2364sm.jpg) (http://ibb.co/evYQhG)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/mkHkhG/IMG_2385.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mkHkhG)



Loosen lock nuts on left side.  Unthread spindles from right side links and slide spindles out to the left (upper links were swapped side to side).  Remove recalcitrant damper nut.  Clean all parts.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/hxO82G/IMG_2323.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hxO82G)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/djOahG/IMG_2324.jpg) (http://ibb.co/djOahG)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/n7tahG/IMG_2325.jpg) (http://ibb.co/n7tahG)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/nvOEbb/IMG_2327.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nvOEbb)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/dgq5hG/IMG_2344sm.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dgq5hG)


Crash had badly bent left lower link so borrowed the hot persuader.  Parallel to 0.004" - Good enough for the girls we go out with!  :grin:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/if5D2G/IMG_2327mod_LI.jpg) (http://ibb.co/if5D2G)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/dVArpw/IMG_2373sm.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dVArpw)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/bAjvGb/IMG_2353.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bAjvGb)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/gMgLhG/IMG_2352.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gMgLhG)


A little work to straighten the links and align the eyes results in square linkages.  New spindles and nuts from Valenti in Italy.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/iBWswb/IMG_2357.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iBWswb)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/j6O0hG/IMG_2358.jpg) (http://ibb.co/j6O0hG)



To remove bushings, thread the correct size tap into the bushing and drive out from the other side with a long drift.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/eDZUbb/IMG_2348.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eDZUbb)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/fSo0hG/IMG_2347.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fSo0hG)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/n569bb/IMG_2380.jpg) (http://ibb.co/n569bb)



JBNicholson (Modern Motorcycle Mechanics) says you can use "red heat" on girder forks so I used plenty of that, plus spring compressor, hammer on the high spots and wooden wedges on the low spots.  Girder specialist Jake Robbins says it is a lot like blacksmithing.  http://sumpmagazine.com/classicbikespecialists/girder-forks.htm

(http://thumb.ibb.co/f95XUw/IMG_2377.jpg) (http://ibb.co/f95XUw)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/gULMNG/IMG_2379.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gULMNG)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/cJsPbb/IMG_2382.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cJsPbb)



The result is pretty square and the spindles and axle align pretty well, but it doesn't show that the lower left leg is about 1/8" shorter than the right.  I will correct that by modifying the axle eyes.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/h9Tmpw/IMG_2388sm.jpg) (http://ibb.co/h9Tmpw)


The spindle bushings are an odd size 11mm x 14mm x 40mm and 13mm x 16mm x 40mm and the thrust washers are only 1mm thick so still looking for these parts.  Forks require 8 bushings and 6 thrust washers. May have to buy common sizes and practice with the lathe more.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 01, 2018, 09:59:49 PM
Attaboy.  :smiley: Nobody said it was going to be easy.. now fire up that lathe.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on January 21, 2018, 06:43:53 PM
While waiting for parts used Honda Randy's torch to pull the bendy 7mm studs.  Would've broken without a lot of heat!
Faced the flange gasket surface then drilled and tapped for 8mm studs. 

(http://thumb.ibb.co/dyo1KG/IMG_2456.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dyo1KG)  (http://thumb.ibb.co/k120Db/IMG_2462.jpg) (http://ibb.co/k120Db)


The sealing surface of the head and gasket were carboned up so probably blown. Lapped the head into the barrel with valve grinding paste.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/f0U8zG/IMG_2460.jpg) (http://ibb.co/f0U8zG)  (http://thumb.ibb.co/noyCRw/IMG_2465.jpg) (http://ibb.co/noyCRw)


Somebody had welded up the valve seats probably 40 years ago.

New parts arrived Saturday morning - including valve guides.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/dyJhtb/IMG_2478.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dyJhtb)


Patrick Hayes points out that the intake guide has a hole so that intake suction can pull oil mist to the rockerbox and guide.
 The new guide was not drilled so marked it and drilled (bolt is to protect the far side of the guide when the bit breaks through).  Then marked to align guide with hole in head.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/jeCstb/IMG_2483.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jeCstb)  (http://thumb.ibb.co/fwM2tb/IMG_2484.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fwM2tb)  (http://thumb.ibb.co/iJWfeG/IMG_2489.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iJWfeG)



Heat in oven to 300F  :thewife:  and drive out old guides - fortunately I had a drift that fit well.  Put new guides in freezer   :thewife:    Reheat the head   :thewife:   line up the marks and drive 'er home.  Realized later I could have drilled the oil passage after installing , but lined up OK.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/kX0vDb/IMG_2481.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kX0vDb)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/dJR2tb/IMG_2495.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dJR2tb)


Unfortunately the exhaust guide is for another engine or made too small.  :sad:  Will take to machine shop if time on Monday.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 21, 2018, 06:49:47 PM
Thanks again. Most people don't have a clue about the work involved when they look at an old machine peacefully putting along.   :smiley:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on January 21, 2018, 08:10:09 PM
Saturday's package also included transmission bearings so Sunday is crankcase day.  Yay!

Didn't want to screw this up so cleaned the crankcases again (they'd been sitting out for a couple months) then got all the parts and tools and pictures ready.  Even wrote myself some instructions.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/gJ1fww/IMG_2497.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gJ1fww)


Guzzi used felt oil seals.  If the felt spins with the bearing or shaft the felt wears the aluminum casting. I used a center punch to raise some burrs in their seats and then glued the felt to the case with super glue (after testing that it would survive the heat).  If you are doing this for real there only 2 felt seals that need to be installed at this time - one under each transmission bearing. The right side trans bearing has a stepped steel spacer between the seal and the bearing - the flat side goes against the bearing.

There is no reference I can find in the GTV manual about heating the crankcase before driving in the bearings.  The bearings are staked into the case after installation so maybe not needed? 
Either way - I'm using heat.   :thewife:    At least the oven is Italian!  (Jill is a bit of a motorhead so I had permission :cool:)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/hRRG3b/IMG_2498.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hRRG3b)  (http://thumb.ibb.co/fMaLUG/IMG_2500.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fMaLUG)


The transmission bearings are special '30s Italian weird size - custom made or modified.  I left the bearings in their plastic wrappers until ready, but better would be to take them out and make sure they run smooth.  The clutch side bearing was tight and dirty right out of the package!  It was also tight in the case (this was also the most worn bearing when pulled apart) - the right side trans bearing just fell in (and out) of the hot case.  Not sure how determine fit before installation except maybe test install the old bearings?  If I ever do this again with this engine I'll know what to look for - live and learn.  :rolleyes:

Both transmission special weird transmission bearings seemed tight with very little internal clearance. I hope they are not too tight to last.

Given the variability and expense and of the weird trans bearings it makes sense to clean them, test fit and possibly polish a tight fitting case before fitting - there is no way to drive the bearing out without denting the races and balls.

The clutch (left trans) bearing was tight and noisy, but washing repeatedly with solvent and light oil as made it roll smoothly and quietly.

Heat of the oven caused oil to migrate out of the porous sand-cast case. 

(http://thumb.ibb.co/kM2H9G/IMG_2512.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kM2H9G)


Bearings in!

(http://thumb.ibb.co/j01AUG/IMG_2514.jpg) (http://ibb.co/j01AUG)




Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on January 22, 2018, 08:51:40 PM
Thanks again. Most people don't have a clue about the work involved when they look at an old machine peacefully putting along.   :smiley:

Thanks Chuck,
It must be exponentially more work when that old machine is an AIRPLANE!   :thumb:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 23, 2018, 08:42:11 AM
Not really. Airplanes by design are simple machines.  :smiley:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: lti_57 on January 23, 2018, 02:20:52 PM
I hope Si and I can make it back over for Vashon
Love to see this in person again after all the work you have put into it
nice job
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on January 23, 2018, 10:00:24 PM
Not really. Airplanes by design are simple machines.  :smiley:

one of my old motorcycles with propeller and wings??? Yikes!!!

You are WAAY too modest Chuck.   :grin:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on January 23, 2018, 10:07:03 PM
I hope Si and I can make it back over for Vashon
Love to see this in person again after all the work you have put into it
nice job

Yeah! We'll trade off doing hot laps through town!     :bike-037:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Rick4003 on January 25, 2018, 04:36:55 AM
Great thread SED! Really nice work you are doing, thanks for taking us along on your journey. It is always a learning experience to rebuild such a nice old bike! I want a bacon slicer of my own!
Keep up the good work!
-Ulrik
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on February 04, 2018, 11:51:33 PM
Putting a crankcase together must be the most important part of building a good engine, but no matter how I plan it, there are a million things I forgot...  Guess I'm still a rookie.     Next time I do this I will make sure every journal fits every bearing, then clean all the bearings before installing them in the case (a new bearing wrapped in plastic had swarf!  :tongue:). 

And this engine has the transmission inside it like an Austin Mini or something!  :rolleyes:  (believe it or not this is only my 2nd unit construction motorcycle - other was a BSA Victor)

Patrick Hayes' translation of the GTV manual has been a lifesaver!  Thank you Patrick!  :bow:

Install mainshaft into clutch hub through bearing. Don't forget spacer inside the bearing (flat side toward bearing).  Shop manual recommends using a pipe to support inner race, but I found that just tightening the nut pulled the hub into the bearing.  Once the nut is tight make sure the shaft is true. If not, the Italians recommend you beat on shaft with wooden mallet.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/bziXbH/IMG_2533.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bziXbH) (http://thumb.ibb.co/kZVHAc/IMG_2537.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kZVHAc) (http://thumb.ibb.co/nsuoGH/IMG_2539.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nsuoGH) (http://thumb.ibb.co/e5mUOx/IMG_2540.jpg) (http://ibb.co/e5mUOx)



Key is to check endplay between mainshaft and driven gear.  Install driven gear onto shaft and measure to end of shaft and subtract 0.010" (0.2-0.3mm) and write down the distance.  Then install driven gear into right crankcase and then put the two halves together so that the mainshaft sticks through the driven gear as it will run in the bike. If the distance is 0.010" less than before the mainshaft is rubbing against the drive gear.  If less then you have enough clearance. 

(http://thumb.ibb.co/fjp5wH/IMG_2541.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fjp5wH) (http://thumb.ibb.co/bLjAVc/IMG_2542.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bLjAVc)


The workshop manual recommends 0.2-1.0mm between the mainshaft and driven gear, but this one had at least 3mm! Too much distance means that the 4th gear dogs won't engage completely and that gear teeth won't be perfectly aligned. The solution is to make a new, thicker spacer between the bearing and driven gear.  Found that reducing the shaft to gear clearance also reduced the number of threads the sprocket locknut would engage (see 2nd pic above) so split the difference.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/h3RVfc/IMG_2551.jpg) (http://ibb.co/h3RVfc)  (http://thumb.ibb.co/j2QvDx/IMG_2557.jpg) (http://ibb.co/j2QvDx)  (http://thumb.ibb.co/mWtnRH/IMG_2564crop.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mWtnRH)


The sprocket spacer is installed flat side to bearing. The felt seal can be pushed back with a dental pick.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/jpTkwH/IMG_2553.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jpTkwH)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/ceVXbH/IMG_2556.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ceVXbH)
 

The shifting was off when I got the bike because the shifter shaft and cam (middle and lower in first pic) were not correctly engaged.  Install shifter shaft and align with marks in the case.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/dOr5wH/IMG_2094.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dOr5wH)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/cyT2bH/IMG_2577.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cyT2bH)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/gHiw3x/IMG_2574.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gHiw3x)


Then align right-side fork with the end of the cam cylinder and twist the left fork so it is parallel to the first.  Don't forget spacer on right side.  I needed to make sure the engagement was correct so joined the halves and installed the shifter ratchet. It took 2 tries, but I got it right.  One tooth off will cause the indicator line to be between the numbers.  A punch mark lined up with the keyway will help me make sure it's right on final assembly.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/nGj8GH/IMG_2565.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nGj8GH)  (http://thumb.ibb.co/k0ALVc/IMG_2575.jpg) (http://ibb.co/k0ALVc)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/dd7CbH/IMG_2576.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dd7CbH)


More to report, but getting late so gonna hit the hay.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 05, 2018, 01:22:36 PM
Thanks for the update.. fun stuff. I'm saving all this for when the Kid gets his 'slicer.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Muzz on February 05, 2018, 02:21:21 PM
Thanks for the update.. fun stuff. I'm saving all this for when the Kid gets his 'slicer.

Looks like you may have to polish the rust off all your machines Chuck! :grin:

I'm impressed SED. Great thread thanks.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on February 05, 2018, 10:53:17 PM
The Guzzi has a roller bearing big-end but it's not at all like most roller cranks.  Instead of a multi-piece crank, the Guzzi has a one-piece crank with a 2-piece connecting rod.  The rod and cap are precision machined to serve as the outer race. 

Clamp rod in vice and coat with thick oil. Insert clean rollers.  COUNT THEM!  33 x 3mm rollers are stock. This one has been been over-bored to take 29 x 3.5mm rollers. When the rod is full, lay crank journal in the rod, add more sticky oil and the rest of the rollers. Snug up the cap bolts and roll the crank to align rollers. The manual says to tap and twist the rod until the crank rolls smoothly. Then tighten rod bolts to 28 foot pounds (do not reuse rod bolts). Then use a punch to stake the nuts to the rod bolts (missed the photo).  Note- next time I will use loctite - the nuts and bolts were so hard that it was difficult to stake them.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/gXbwqc/IMG_2578.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gXbwqc)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/msdnwH/IMG_2580.jpg) (http://ibb.co/msdnwH)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/cQmkix/IMG_2581.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cQmkix)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/ir95ix/IMG_2583.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ir95ix)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/eAh2Vc/IMG_2584.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eAh2Vc)


Insert crank in right crankcase and install roller bearing.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/meuPAc/IMG_2585.jpg) (http://ibb.co/meuPAc)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/n7sBqc/IMG_2589.jpg) (http://ibb.co/n7sBqc)



Install felt seal and shield into the left crankcase.  Install shafts into left crankcase - cluster gear (with shim on each end), shifter shaft (line up with marks in crankcase), shift fork cylinder (with shim on upper end) and 2 sliding gears.   

(http://thumb.ibb.co/fq0gqc/IMG_2586.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fq0gqc)  (http://thumb.ibb.co/k9Ni3x/IMG_2591.jpg) (http://ibb.co/k9Ni3x)



New (NEW!$$$) cluster and sliding gears and new bearings.  Drizzle with assembly lube.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/i1aswH/IMG_2592.jpg) (http://ibb.co/i1aswH)


Thin smear of sealer on the case ready to join.  It takes patience to align the shafts and roller bearing when joining the cases.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/dMC0ix/IMG_2590.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dMC0ix)  (http://thumb.ibb.co/id42wH/IMG_2593.jpg) (http://ibb.co/id42wH)



Patrick Hayes points out that this engine has no dowel pins so recommends joining the crankcase halves then bolting up the cylinder to align them before tightening the two halves.  I didn't think to do that, but the alignment is very good.

All buttoned up! The crank rolls so smoothly  :afro:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/bXhY3x/IMG_2594.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bXhY3x)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/mpoUbH/IMG_2596.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mpoUbH)

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Rick4003 on February 06, 2018, 12:34:29 AM
 :bow:
Looks super good! :popcorn:

Ulrik
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Rhodan on February 11, 2018, 11:44:26 AM

...Insert clean rollers.  COUNT THEM!  33 x 3mm rollers ...
  Voice of experience?   :laugh:  Enjoying this thread tremendously.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on February 11, 2018, 10:10:36 PM
  Voice of experience?   :laugh:  Enjoying this thread tremendously.
:embarrassed:  And rod bolt torque is 28 foot pounds - easier to achieve before you bolt the crankcase together.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on February 11, 2018, 10:57:13 PM
Local machine shop didn't have the metric reamers to do the valve work so bought 10mm and 11mm reamers from Cylinder Head Supply. 

Found a valve guide with the required 17.5mm OD in a box of parts that would work for the exhaust guide.  Upper end was a little tall so milled it off in lathe.   

(http://thumb.ibb.co/dwjLd7/IMG_2615.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dwjLd7)
   

The guide had a 9.5mm bore which needed to be opened up to 11mm. Got it to 10mm with the new intake reamer but the 11mm reamer would not fit in the bore.  Modified a 27/64" (10.7mm) drill bit to work as a reamer.  Chucked bit in late and centered guide between the bit and tailstock and the 11mm reamer fit fine.

Guide in head but ugly crack in the thinnest part of the shoulder.   :undecided:   Probably will be fine.  :bike-037:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/dXwcQn/IMG_2616.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dXwcQn)  (http://thumb.ibb.co/mQ0wkn/IMG_2625.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mQ0wkn)
 


Reamed to fit.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/mhZaBS/IMG_2623.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mhZaBS)


Amazingly the exhaust guide was still concentric with the valve seat, but the intake was not.  Don't know why.  Intake needs some serious lapping in.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/dxLhrS/IMG_2636mod.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dxLhrS)
 


Time to accelerate the process... 

(http://thumb.ibb.co/cUTP5n/IMG_2628.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cUTP5n)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/chd2rS/IMG_2629.jpg) (http://ibb.co/chd2rS)

Even took a little video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuKg-2ES8qg


(http://thumb.ibb.co/h36SQn/IMG_2638.jpg) (http://ibb.co/h36SQn)



Ready to paint!  Wash with Ospho and Simple Green, dry, mask and a little BBQ black.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/jZEdy7/IMG_2644.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jZEdy7)  (http://thumb.ibb.co/cp2bkn/IMG_2647.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cp2bkn)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/bwYSrS/IMG_2648.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bwYSrS)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/grKdy7/IMG_2653.jpg) (http://ibb.co/grKdy7)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Tusayan on February 13, 2018, 02:14:55 PM
The Guzzi has a roller bearing big-end but it's not at all like most roller cranks.  Instead of a multi-piece crank, the Guzzi has a one-piece crank with a 2-piece connecting rod.  The rod and cap are precision machined to serve as the outer race. 

Clamp rod in vice and coat with thick oil. Insert clean rollers.  COUNT THEM!  33 x 3mm rollers are stock. This one has been been over-bored to take 29 x 3.5mm rollers. When the rod is full, lay crank journal in the rod, add more sticky oil and the rest of the rollers. Snug up the cap bolts and roll the crank to align rollers. The manual says to tap and twist the rod until the crank rolls smoothly. Then tighten rod bolts to 28 foot pounds (do not reuse rod bolts). Then use a punch to stake the nuts to the rod bolts (missed the photo).

At about 7:20 in this video, you can see how it was done at the factory in 1956  :grin:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpCyUebmU8A
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 13, 2018, 04:32:26 PM
When I was originally doing the Lario rehab.. I asked the Kid what to use as a degreaser. He said this stuff. "You can paint over it."

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcQBrebZrzIbXvf54YovFhqcuMgfiXCQgSEJbVLj8V7QQ0c0DY7PQbKxlLR6Wc5TbkYwm7RpD1btEeavrsyodzsNl7d6V6OXkw5_R_X9Zeo87USpS9DbResG&usqp=CAc)

I was amazed that there was a water soluble solvent that you could do this.. but he was a pro painter in another lifetime. I spritzed it on, blasted it off with an engine cleaning gun and water.. and painted the engine, transmission, swing arm, rear drive.
It's still perfect.. 4 years (from memory) later. I'd recommend it to your attention.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on February 13, 2018, 08:34:29 PM
Great video Tusayan!   My wife speaks conversational Italian so maybe she'd like to translate.   :grin:

(BTW she can't really translate the shop manual because technical Italian makes no sense to her because words take on different meanings.  Albero is "tree" except in an engine when it is a "shaft".   A "game" 0.3mm is the exhaust valve play.   So sometimes she can tell me what it says and I can tell her what it means.  But mostly it interests me way more than her.  :tongue:)

Chuck, thanks for the Super Clean tip.  I'd never heard of it, but they sell it at NAPA here!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on February 13, 2018, 09:08:14 PM
Time to assemble the piston and cylinder!

Piston is nearly new and stock 88mm bore!  (Number right below the divot made by something sucked down the carb  :rolleyes:)  The cylinder has been resleeved.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/c1Lnvn/IMG_2643.jpg) (http://ibb.co/c1Lnvn)
 

A last look into the clean crankcase.  It was totally black when opened up.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/dWSjan/IMG_2658.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dWSjan)
 


Clean piston and rings, with some assembly lube for the wrist pin bushing. Heating the piston with a hair dryer makes it much easier to slide the pin.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/iCPfFn/IMG_2660.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iCPfFn)
 


Install cylinder head studs.  Didn't remove them from piston because they are being reused. They are already bedded in so the cylinder doesn't need honing, just scrub it with a scotchbrite pad to give a little crosshatch. Make a base gasket and add a thin smear of gasket goo.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/iVD7vn/IMG_2661.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iVD7vn) (http://thumb.ibb.co/mcqLFn/IMG_2662.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mcqLFn)
 


Space 3 upper (front???) ring gaps 120 degrees and add a little engine oil to the rings and skirt.  Slide on the cylinder compressing each ring with finger tips as you go.  There are 4 rings, but because the studs carry the weight of the cylinder it is the easiest one I've done.  Finally bolt on head to hold cylinder on the base gasket securely.  This is getting fun!

(http://thumb.ibb.co/j20WMS/IMG_2663.jpg) (http://ibb.co/j20WMS) (http://thumb.ibb.co/mCdJ1S/IMG_2664.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mCdJ1S)

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Rick4003 on February 14, 2018, 12:46:45 AM
 :popcorn:
Great progress! Can't wait to see it running :grin:
-Ulrik
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 14, 2018, 07:06:15 AM
We need a video of it walking across the garage floor.  :smiley:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on February 15, 2018, 10:29:54 PM
We need a video of it walking across the garage floor.  :smiley:

Ha!  I'll just wrap a rope around the flywheel and pull!   :evil:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on February 15, 2018, 10:39:41 PM
Head all ready to reassemble....

(http://thumb.ibb.co/iRQB87/IMG_2666.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iRQB87)


but how the heck do you compress these springs???  I've tried vice, pliers, a big wrenches, levers, more vices  :boozing:
(I'd have a chance with the old springs in the background but the new ones will take off a finger!!!)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/jGtngS/IMG_2667.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jGtngS)


Gotta do some research.  Probably need to make a tool... :smiley:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Rick4003 on February 15, 2018, 11:24:09 PM
Head all ready to reassemble....

(http://thumb.ibb.co/iRQB87/IMG_2666.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iRQB87)


but how the heck do you compress these springs???  I've tried vice, pliers, a big wrenches, levers, more vices  :boozing:
(I'd have a chance with the old springs in the background but the new ones will take off a finger!!!)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/jGtngS/IMG_2667.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jGtngS)


Gotta do some research.  Probably need to make a tool... :smiley:

How about making a tool with a pin that goes through the coil of the spring and then clamp down on the top and bottom? The pin would keep it from sliding away and turning into a Jesus spring.


(http://thumb.ibb.co/irBPd7/Bacon_slicer_valve_spring_tool.png) (http://ibb.co/irBPd7)

I made a very quick paint sketch of the idea.

-Ulrik
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on February 15, 2018, 11:47:57 PM
That looks like the thing Rick! 

Was also looking at this, but not sure how it keeps the spring from flying.  I like the pin through the coil that you suggest. 

(http://thumb.ibb.co/kivgrS/Hairping_Tongues_01.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kivgrS)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Muzz on February 16, 2018, 05:05:16 AM
I remember doing the old AJS/Matchy hair springs by hand; HOW I did it I cant remember. :embarrassed:

Once I got the knack of the first one the rest wern't too bad. There was a progression that had to be followed.

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: jas67 on February 16, 2018, 05:14:45 AM
When I was originally doing the Lario rehab.. I asked the Kid what to use as a degreaser. He said this stuff. "You can paint over it."

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcQBrebZrzIbXvf54YovFhqcuMgfiXCQgSEJbVLj8V7QQ0c0DY7PQbKxlLR6Wc5TbkYwm7RpD1btEeavrsyodzsNl7d6V6OXkw5_R_X9Zeo87USpS9DbResG&usqp=CAc)

I was amazed that there was a water soluble solvent that you could do this.. but he was a pro painter in another lifetime. I spritzed it on, blasted it off with an engine cleaning gun and water.. and painted the engine, transmission, swing arm, rear drive.
It's still perfect.. 4 years (from memory) later. I'd recommend it to your attention.

Your image doesn't show up for me.   What product is this?
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on February 16, 2018, 08:24:10 AM
but how the heck do you compress these springs???  I've tried vice, pliers, a big wrenches, levers, more vices  :boozing:

Back when I did a customer's Falcone, I made a tool out of a flat washers and two pieces of flat steel welded to it. Used with a big "C-clamp". I still have it and will dig it out when I get out to the shop.

Your image doesn't show up for me.   What product is this?

Super Clean https://superclean.com/
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: JukeboxGothic on February 16, 2018, 04:30:15 PM
I have hairpin springs on my Velocette and use a conventional spring compressor that I have owned for years. Heres one at Grove that will do the job but you should be able to get something closer to home.   http://www.groveclassicmotorcycles.co.uk/ps178-valve-spring-compressor-tool-1640-p.asp
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Muzz on February 16, 2018, 04:41:53 PM
Musillating on this, I think I engaged the two bottom forks, and then by levering the coil up I was able to get the bent part of the spring over the valve and engage it in the "collet" (which was a grooved flat plate.

Someone recently asked why they used hair springs. They have the advantage of not coil binding. Big plus as cam lifts got higher. Also meant you could have a shorter valve and lower rocker covers. Don't know about relative efficiency. To me a normal poppet valve could take higher revs but I am just guessing.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on February 16, 2018, 08:10:44 PM
Here's the tool I made for the job:


(http://thumb.ibb.co/cWvs0n/Valve_spring_compressor_002.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cWvs0n)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: BikeMike on February 16, 2018, 10:28:01 PM
Matchless heavyweight singles use a similar hairpin valve spring.  Here is an illustration of the hand tool.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dMi1t7/Matchless_Hairpin_Valve_Spring_Hand_Tool.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dMi1t7)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: BikeMike on February 16, 2018, 10:39:25 PM
Or this one that bolts on the head.  I made one from some 1/4" plate.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/kDES0n/Capture.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kDES0n)


-Mike
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Muzz on February 17, 2018, 12:38:49 AM
Matchless heavyweight singles use a similar hairpin valve spring.  Here is an illustration of the hand tool.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dMi1t7/Matchless_Hairpin_Valve_Spring_Hand_Tool.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dMi1t7)


I didn't have the tool but I guess my levering did the same thing.

I see Mike you have a '49 G3L. Mine started off life as a "48 G3L, the last of the old wartime design rigids. Did many miles on that bike, which got altered as things wore out. The bike actually went extremely well and would drag the 500 single in both acceleration and top speed. Always good for a laugh. :thumb:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: BikeMike on February 17, 2018, 10:23:15 AM
Hi Muzz,

I think Sed is on the right track with the sketch.   The hand tool works well but as I recall there is definitely a knack to it as you have to hook the top the valve spring under the retainer and then fold the spring to place the legs into their sockets.

My old G3L is a rigid too.  A good old bike and a lot of fun or will be once I get her back on the road  :thumb:

Nice work Sed!  I look forward to seeing your posts :bow:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on February 17, 2018, 02:29:49 PM
Thanks for all the ideas!  Wonder if that Matchy mechanic smacked his left thumb?!  Hairpin springs can really sproing.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/fTLTrS/Matchless.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fTLTrS)


Jerry on the Google slicer group says he can do it with pliers!
 
"Put the spring holder on the valve.  Hook the loop of the spring under it.  The coil part is then pointing straight up.  Take a pair of channel locks and grab one tine.  Then twist it down onto the plate on top of the head.  The other tine will want to go somewhere, like into the fins maybe.  Keep it outside of the fins and you'll have to twist it to do that.  Easier to do than to explain.  You won't hurt the spring by twisting it.  Levers and clamps are a waste of time.  If it takes you longer than 5 minutes to put on all 4 springs, you are wasting time.......  Oh, do the spring with the narrow tines first then the one with the wide tines."

After thinking about it a couple days I decided to try it.  Did it in under an hour so only wasted 54 minutes or so. :grin:

1. Intake side has a little more clearance so do it first. 
2. Install valve, stuff a rag into the combustion chamber (to hold valve up) and clamp head to bench. 
3. Install base plate and keepers on valve.  Hold keepers on valve by wrapping the stem with tape. 
4. Start by installing old, weakened spring - easier to install and will hold keepers in place while installing the new spring.  Jerry says to do the narrow spring first, but I was able to do the wider one first (forgot what Jerry wrote  :rolleyes:). All the factory pictures I could find show the wider springs on the rockerbox side of the head and the narrow springs on the spark plug side.
5. Put on insulated leather gloves (lots of padding), clamp vicegrip firmly to one tine and hook top of spring under keeper and do what Jerry said - lever the tine up to the base-plate - the spring twists, but it works.  Then go to the other tine. 
6. Put on opposite spring the same way.
7. Swap out old spring for new one. 
Note: The exhaust side was impossible to get on without compressing the old spring in a vice and holding it with channellocs to install.  Used the vice on the second spring too, but the last spring (replacing the used one) could be done with just the vicegrips.   

(http://thumb.ibb.co/eJxhGS/IMG_2670.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eJxhGS)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/no1L37/IMG_2671.jpg) (http://ibb.co/no1L37)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/c1kDO7/IMG_2672.jpg) (http://ibb.co/c1kDO7)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/jQarAn/IMG_2674.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jQarAn)


I probably made the installation more difficult by lubing everything before trying to install the springs.  The springs wear into the keepers and baseplate enough that they have to be replaced periodically.  I was hoping to minimize the wear by coating them with moly grease.

Now time to install the head!

(http://thumb.ibb.co/nNck37/IMG_2676.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nNck37)



LOW compression!  The piston is at TDC, copper head gasket on top - no squish band here.  Torque 4 head bolts to 25-30 foot-pounds.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/nKNUVn/IMG_2677.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nKNUVn)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/gU4yO7/IMG_2678.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gU4yO7)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/gMeMbS/IMG_2683.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gMeMbS)


Next is the worn rockerbox and its new bushings.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 18, 2018, 09:18:11 AM
 :popcorn: A little lathe work?
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on February 19, 2018, 12:32:20 AM
:popcorn: A little lathe work?

They're split repop bushings that fit in a worn clamshell case with no detents or locating pins.  And I don't have the right reamer... 15mm.   So more like worrying them 'til they fit.     :clock: 

:popcorn:  :boozing:

 
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on February 19, 2018, 09:42:14 PM
The rockerbox is a simple clamshell that carries 2 bronze bushings.  When I first got the bike, the exhaust rocker was so sloppy that moving it could open and close the valve clearance more than 1/8".  The clearances and resulting pounding was bad enough to cause the upper bushings to wear into the aluminum cover that is supposed to hold them.  The combined wear of the rocker box and cam rollers required that the valve adjusters be extended until the lock-nuts would not fit above the rockers and had to be re-positioned UNDER the rocker arm.  This bike ran!

The rockerbox suffers from inadequate lubrication and the dirt that finds its way into the exposed valve gear.  The only oil in the rocker box is what is splashed off the crankshaft that makes it's way up the pushrod tube - aided by a little suction from the intake valve port.   

The valve gear was a new design in 1934 and must have relied on hand fitting or lapping the parts to make them fit.  There are no dowel-pins or keys to align the bushings or the clamshell that holds them.  Amazingly the only thing keeping the upper half of the bushing from rotating is the lower bushing (which is secured by a bolt from below).  Only the shape of the rocker shaft keeps the upper half from moving back and forth.

Test fitting the bushings and rocker shafts.  I had temporarily repaired the cover with JBWeld (it held for 200 miles) that had to be partially cleaned out to fit over the new bushings.  The intake bushings were not a matched set, but they fit fine.  Perversely the exhaust bushings (the longer ones) appeared to be a matched set, but were not.  The rocker would bind when bolted into the cover.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/cQqQax/IMG_2687.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cQqQax)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/gmEkax/IMG_2688.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gmEkax)


After lots of fussing around the light bulb went on and I finally realized the exhaust bushing halves were not machined parallel - one was askew.   :tongue:   Shimming the upper bushing with tape brought them into tolerable alignment (see patches of green tape).  I decided to re-do the JBWeld repair so that the new bushings would be positively located in the cover: clean thoroughly, apply thin coat of JBWeld and let harden until stiff, coat with grease and bolt the halves together.  (There is a passage between the intake rocker and the mounting stud visible inside the RH mounting hole in the 3rd photo below.  This passage connects to the intake valve guide and must be kept clean.)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/gZRv8H/IMG_2693.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gZRv8H)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/mMhrhc/IMG_2697.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mMhrhc)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/e2eF8H/IMG_2698.jpg) (http://ibb.co/e2eF8H)


Once the JBWeld sets, take it apart and clean everything.  The exhaust rocker still wanted to drag depending on which way the wind was blowing on Lake Como so I busied myself with polishing off witness marks and test fitting it 200-300 more times  :rolleyes:   This has been called worrying the part 'til it fits.  I've learned its alternative meaning is worry the part until you don't worry about it any more.  :undecided:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/d47P2c/IMG_2685.jpg) (http://ibb.co/d47P2c)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/c8i8TH/IMG_2686.jpg) (http://ibb.co/c8i8TH)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/hpfcNc/IMG_2691.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hpfcNc)
 

Finally it's all cleaned up and ready to assemble for real.  Smear assembly lube on lower bushings.  Then lay the rocker in with its seal and washer.  The seals are felt rings retained behind steel washers.  The felt rides on a boss on the rocker and steel washer fits in a groove in the upper and lower halves of the clam - and it all goes together at the same time. Use a thin tool to tuck the felt between the washer and bushing.  Then apply assembly lube to the upper bushings and install them.  Make sure no assembly lube gets on the joint between the clamshell halves. Then coat the upper clamshell with thin smear of sealer and assemble.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/jCSz2c/IMG_2701.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jCSz2c)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/iisz2c/IMG_2702.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iisz2c)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/d0SXNc/IMG_2703.jpg) (http://ibb.co/d0SXNc)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/jbB3TH/IMG_2704.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jbB3TH)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/ehNtTH/IMG_2707.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ehNtTH)


Exhaust rocker still drags a little, but it will be alright after a little break in.   :boozing:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/fkstTH/IMG_2708.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fkstTH)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on February 22, 2018, 10:09:25 PM
Decided to paint the spring boxes before installing the motore.  It may have been painted by the same brush at the factory, but all the pictures online show black spring boxes:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/hMMWkx/LSide.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hMMWkx)


So, wash with soap and water, scuff with scotchbrite pads and spray with semi-gloss....

(http://thumb.ibb.co/eHfSsc/IMG_2696.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eHfSsc)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/cCfSsc/IMG_2709.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cCfSsc)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/h4G0Cc/IMG_2718.jpg) (http://ibb.co/h4G0Cc)

Soon enough they will be covered with dirt and oil so not too worried about imperfections.   :afro:

Next will be to toss the correct mainspring in the fork before installing the motore.    :smiley:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: canuck750 on February 23, 2018, 09:54:31 AM
Looks fantastic  :bow: :bow: :bow:

This is a great resource for anyone contemplating ownership of one of these beautiful machines, myself included.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on February 25, 2018, 11:49:13 PM
Thanks Canuck - your work is really much nicer than mine.  You are much more patient.  I'm just trying to turn the bike into a rider. It's all new to me so this thread is my memory bank for the next time I dive into it. 

'spose I could make it look nicer, but then it would get scratched up and I'd stress about it...

So, needed to put the correct mainspring in the fork before putting the engine in the frame.  (The complete fork rebuild will have to wait).  To do it requires that the top link be disconnected and the steering head (top triple clamp on tele forks) be removed.

I'm documenting the parallelogram fork work because I've been unable to find a workshop manual or exploded parts diagram of the GTV fork - it is different for the previous models (sport 15 etc) and different than the Alce.

Jack weight off front wheel.  Loosen nuts on left side, remove nuts on right side.  Shafts are threaded into right-hand link - unthread them by turning the square pegs.  Pegs are just long enough to clear the threads.  Then shafts and left-hand link can be removed together - there should be a 1mm thick bronze spacer at each end of the shaft.  Note- this was with a weak spring - with a better spring you may need to tie the fork up with tie-down straps (see assembly) or raise the steering head.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/hFNXfx/IMG_2719.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hFNXfx)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/k4a7DH/IMG_2720.jpg) (http://ibb.co/k4a7DH)


The top nut with washer under it on the steering head adjusts the bearing play, the pinch bolt on the back of the steering head locks head to the upper bearing race.

Loosen spring top nut and loosen steering head and lift just enough to remove top of spring.  The ball bearings of the lower race may try to drop out when the steering head is raised.  Un-twist spring from lower mount - using a punch on the lower end of the spring can get it started.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/kGpync/IMG_2723.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kGpync)


The top bolt for the spring has a taper and two different sizes of threads.  It had to be swapped between springs.  Then twist the spring into its lower mount - long block of wood and a hammer can help seat it.  Then insert the top of the spring into the steering head and tighten the nut to secure it.  Tighten the steering top nut to adjust the head bearings, then tighten the pinch bolt to lock the steering head to the steering shaft.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/eryDLx/IMG_2724.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eryDLx)


Their was some play between the shaft and the bushings in the top of the girder.  I found that one of the shafts from my other fork took up almost all the play.  Eventually I'll tear down both forks and build a god one from the best pieces.

Once the spring is in, it will tend to push the top of the girder away from the steering head making it impossible to reinsert the left link and shafts.  The trick is to use a couple of tie-down to work against the spring.  Loop them under the lower spring pivot and over the top of the girder and the steering head.  Once the distance is close the shafts can be inserted from the left - LH bronze washers, LH link then shaft.  Once the shafts are through, put on the RH bronze thrust washers and thread the shafts through the right-hand link.  I used bronze washers from the local comprehensive hardware store that I drilled out to fit the shafts.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/c27F0x/IMG_2725.jpg) (http://ibb.co/c27F0x)


With both side links on, the shaft play can be adjusted.  Thread the nuts on the left-link down by hand to take up slop without locking the shafts.  Thread the shafts in and out of the right-hand link until their play is very slight (working the two shafts together keeps the links aligned.  Once they are both close you can finalize one shaft at a time. Tighten the lock nut on the left, then the one on the right.  The shaft should pivot in the girder or steering head without slop. Rotate one of the bronze washers to confirm that it is not over tightened.  Only one of the 2 washers on each shaft has to move. Then adjust then next shaft.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/c3Qcfx/IMG_2728.jpg) (http://ibb.co/c3Qcfx)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/g9nq0x/IMG_2729.jpg) (http://ibb.co/g9nq0x)
   

Lubricate with your favorite grease confirming that grease squeezes out at both ends of the shaft. Grab the front brake and confirm you have suspension movement. 

I pronounce it ready for the engine!!!  :grin:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Unkept on February 26, 2018, 11:11:48 AM
I've been following along, great work bringing back to life such a cool bike!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on February 26, 2018, 11:43:42 PM
I've been following along, great work bringing back to life such a cool bike!

Thanks!  Your work on that V11 LeMans was topnotch. This thread seems a little weird - both broadcasting that I am a rank amateur and bragging about it.   Oh well, hopefully it is helpful to someone besides me!

Getting the engine ready to put in the frame - test fitting the rocker box and pushrod tube.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/msfUTH/IMG_2737.jpg) (http://ibb.co/msfUTH)


Original magneto key was too small and sloppy so made a new one by filing down a larger key.  Felt seal is pinned to the back of the magneto gear.  Old felt seal is worn - new seal is much thicker.  Felt runs against the aluminum case wearing into it.  Case with cam and cam followers installed.  Cam and magneto timed.  (this is where disassembly photos are really helpful)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/ggEdNc/IMG_2731.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ggEdNc)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/dMsMax/IMG_2732.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dMsMax)     (http://thumb.ibb.co/fZNb8H/IMG_2734.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fZNb8H)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/cukUTH/IMG_2736.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cukUTH)


Made a gasket for the base of the pushrod tube then installed pushrods and rockerbox.    Lubed the cam, followers and gears with assembly lube.  A thin layer of sealer on the timing cover - install with new cover bolts.  Install hardened valve caps and adjust valves to 0.002" intake and 0.012" exhaust.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/ddnkkx/IMG_2741.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ddnkkx)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/k59LJH/IMG_2740.jpg) (http://ibb.co/k59LJH)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/iYFSyH/IMG_2739.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iYFSyH)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/niJEdH/IMG_2742.jpg) (http://ibb.co/niJEdH)


Ready to install!

(http://thumb.ibb.co/c7dEdH/IMG_2745.jpg) (http://ibb.co/c7dEdH)

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 27, 2018, 08:51:58 PM
 :thumb: Attaboy..
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: canuck750 on February 27, 2018, 10:09:11 PM
The engine looks great and I bet it will run like a watch.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on February 27, 2018, 10:41:33 PM
It's heavy, and you've got to wiggle the valve springs between the frame tubes, but it just lays in there; easy to bolt in place.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/fQesHc/IMG_2747.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fQesHc)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/ckMTqx/IMG_2748.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ckMTqx)



Inject oil into the crankshaft and put extra oil in the bottom of the timing and crank cases (only pressure oil feed is to rod bearing - the rest is splash).  Make gasket for the oil pump and inject oil into the pump.  Install.
 
(http://thumb.ibb.co/hNa7Hc/IMG_2753.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hNa7Hc)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/ihiSHc/IMG_2755.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ihiSHc)  (http://thumb.ibb.co/gR6Q3H/IMG_2751.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gR6Q3H) 
 


Install oil tank and intake manifold (easier to install intake manifold bolts at the same time).  Install oil lines and decompressor lever.  Put oil in tank.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/n6O53H/IMG_2756.jpg) (http://ibb.co/n6O53H)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/isOGAx/IMG_2762.jpg) (http://ibb.co/isOGAx)


Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: pehayes on February 27, 2018, 11:04:37 PM
Inject oil into the crankshaft and put extra oil in the bottom of the timing and crank cases (only pressure oil feed is to rod bearing - the rest is splash).

Actually, there isn't any pressurized oil.  The oil pump sends out a stream of oil via a long tube.  That tube aligns into the center of the hollow crankshaft.  There is plenty of space between the oil injection tube and the crankshaft inner wall so no real pressure develops.  The injected oil just fills the hollow crankshaft and then immediately gets flung away by the spinning rod journal.  Even the rollers on the rod big end are just lubricated by the oil oozing out as it flings.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on February 27, 2018, 11:39:38 PM
Actually, there isn't any pressurized oil.  The oil pump sends out a stream of oil via a long tube.  That tube aligns into the center of the hollow crankshaft.  There is plenty of space between the oil injection tube and the crankshaft inner wall so no real pressure develops.  The injected oil just fills the hollow crankshaft and then immediately gets flung away by the spinning rod journal.  Even the rollers on the rod big end are just lubricated by the oil oozing out as it flings.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

True, there's no seal between the quill and the crank shaft.  The Ariel's the same, except it has gears running an a bath of grease and oil.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Muzz on February 28, 2018, 02:04:07 AM
True, there's no seal between the quill and the crank shaft. 

My bro's Vincent Comet is supposed to have a seal there. A mechanic who fixed it after the first owner got wiped out by a car and smashed the engine case didn't know about it and omitted it. The big end did over 50,000 miles but it regularly shred the cams and followers. It was only after he stripped it to do the big end he found out about it.

Very basic, just a spring loaded seal that seals the quill and the crank. You would wonder why Guzzi didn't do something similar.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on February 28, 2018, 11:33:46 PM
My bro's Vincent Comet is supposed to have a seal there. A mechanic who fixed it after the first owner got wiped out by a car and smashed the engine case didn't know about it and omitted it. The big end did over 50,000 miles but it regularly shred the cams and followers. It was only after he stripped it to do the big end he found out about it.

Very basic, just a spring loaded seal that seals the quill and the crank. You would wonder why Guzzi didn't do something similar.

Guzzi doesn't need to because it's got a roller cam that needs very little oil.  Anyway the oil that squeezes out between the pump and crank spills into the cam box lubing the cam.  The valve rockers don't need a separate feed because they are at the same level as the crank and oil blows down the pushrod tube - horizontal engine!

Ariel is/was like the Comet, but the "seal" is between the pump and the crank.  Prior to 1940 it was an externally adjustable restriction in the crank feed. (the more you restricted oil to the crank the higher your reading on the oil pressure gauge!  :shocked:)  It was replaced by a spring loaded ball valve that oil from the pump pushed open.  The pressure from the spring diverts oil up to the rockers where it drains down and lubes the cam.  The problem was that both the crank and rockers were lubed off the "pressure" side of the pump.  About 1953 Ariel finally got smart and diverted oil from the scavenge side of the pump (which always has a higher volume) to lube the rockers and return oil to the tank.  Guzzi got smarter and made a wet sump V-twin engine!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on March 01, 2018, 12:12:56 AM
More shop time!

Install sprocket and chain. Install kickstart mechanism. NEW(!) clutch and primary gear.  Install clutch springs which pull on clutch "pushrod".  Thread clutch rod so threads protrude no more than 1mm beyond pressure plate, then install springs. (knurled nut is left-hand thread. It is tightened until springs are compressed to 27mm.). 

(http://thumb.ibb.co/gDkPFx/IMG_2764.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gDkPFx)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/doaD8H/IMG_2765.jpg) (http://ibb.co/doaD8H)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/iA74Fx/IMG_2767.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iA74Fx)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/nzH4Fx/IMG_2769.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nzH4Fx)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/neDN2c/IMG_2770.jpg) (http://ibb.co/neDN2c)


The very nice throw-out bearing the Patrick Hayes made. Cover and clutch lever installed.  Shifter ratchet and lever installed. Test fitting the crank (NEW!) and generator gears.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/kxpy8H/IMG_2772.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kxpy8H)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/iP9n2c/IMG_2773.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iP9n2c)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/gdLiax/IMG_2774.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gdLiax)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/fMauhc/IMG_2775.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fMauhc)


If you've been following from the beginning you may recognize that generator gear as the cracked one that was repaired, but then dropped off the generator shaft due to a lack of Locktite.  :embarrassed:  I then bought another, identical, generator gear to replace it.  Only now have I found that the old gear had been modified by machining down the diameter of its hub to pass through the crankcase - the new one is too large.  No doubt the machining weakened the hub causing the crack.

The parts book shows the original gear was phenolic with a steel hub to fit the generator shaft.  The aluminum gear must be for a later version of the bike (Falcone?) that a previous owner modified.

Fitting the flywheel so that the crank can be kicked over and clutch engagement and decompressor adjusted. 

(http://thumb.ibb.co/btJuFx/IMG_2777.jpg) (http://ibb.co/btJuFx)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Muzz on March 01, 2018, 01:54:22 AM
Guzzi doesn't need to because it's got a roller cam that needs very little oil.

The Vin has a convex shaped siding follower that sits high up in the case. Roller cam follower in a horizontal engine makes sense in the Guzzi.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on March 02, 2018, 11:58:23 PM
Flywheel engages with the crank gear and the slot had worn badly.  I'd welded it up once earlier, but there was still some slop.  Marks indicate where to weld.  Filed to fit.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/jZofsn/IMG_2779.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jZofsn)


Had to weld the worn foot peg tabs too. 

(http://thumb.ibb.co/c3dDCn/IMG_2784.jpg) (http://ibb.co/c3dDCn)



Remember to locktite the generator drive gear!  Then tighten primary cover screws evenly as it presses down against the cush drive spring.  Then install flywheel.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/gGQX57/IMG_2781.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gGQX57)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/g75MyS/IMG_2782.jpg) (http://ibb.co/g75MyS)


Footpegs and controls, time magneto, hang exhaust.  (the new 8mm exhaust flange studs or much more secure)  Connect electrical....

(http://thumb.ibb.co/cX3YdS/IMG_2785.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cX3YdS)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/cxF757/IMG_2786.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cxF757)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/fRfDdS/IMG_2787.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fRfDdS)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/dcAUJS/IMG_2790.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dcAUJS)


Almost ready!

(http://thumb.ibb.co/frDYdS/IMG_2793.jpg) (http://ibb.co/frDYdS)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 03, 2018, 07:43:08 AM
Yummy.. :thumb:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Rick4003 on March 03, 2018, 07:58:47 AM
It looks magnificent! Good job! :popcorn: :bike-037:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: canuck750 on March 03, 2018, 04:31:43 PM
This is my favorite thread, your ingenuity and attention to detail is fantastic, I tip my hat to your skill and for resurrecting this beauty! :1:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Sheepdog on March 03, 2018, 06:23:23 PM
A looker! Now...off the stand and on the street!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on March 04, 2018, 08:57:43 PM
Looks better in photos! 

Forgot to tickle the carb so needed 6 kicks and full choke. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuClehTTeXk

1st kick starter after that.  Rode around the block a couple times then 6 miles or so down the road.  Engine and gears are quiet, clutch works great, charging system works.  Need to adjust gear engagement:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/hVFsQ7/IMG_2799.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hVFsQ7)


title says 50 years between these two Guzzis!

(http://thumb.ibb.co/fEYnQ7/IMG_2798crop.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fEYnQ7)





Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: jas67 on March 04, 2018, 09:09:49 PM
 :thumb:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: smdl on March 04, 2018, 10:40:56 PM
Well done!!  :bow:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: injundave on March 05, 2018, 12:02:15 AM
Awesome!!! Congratulations and very well done.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Rick4003 on March 05, 2018, 06:49:16 AM
Briliant! Now we just need a video of you riding it around! :bike-037:

-Ulrik
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 05, 2018, 07:24:01 AM
Very nice indeed. That first startup after going through a machine is a great feeling.  :thumb: Ready to do the Cannonball?  :grin:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Unkept on March 05, 2018, 07:40:42 AM
Very nice! :) Congratulations on your project.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: siabeid on March 05, 2018, 07:48:00 AM
Wow Shawn, I can't wait to see it in action! Are you going to ride it to Mt Vernon Saturday?
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Psychopasta on March 05, 2018, 07:50:02 AM
Congratulations: very well done!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on March 06, 2018, 12:14:10 AM
Thank you!  It is fun to get it going.  Yes, planning on riding to Mt. Vernon. 

Needs lots more work so the saga is not over!  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on March 31, 2018, 12:09:57 PM
The slicer's got about 100 miles on it now. (would be more except for weather and being super busy at work) 

Most obvious problem is that it backfires out the carb when hot and when it does the engine often dies.  Weirdly, lowering the idle till it sounds like an old make-n-break stops the backfiring and so less likely to die. I kept wondering if it was ignition, but a bad magneto wouldn't idle so slow.

Adjusting the idle mix just made it idle faster and faster until the mixture screw is about to fall out (it's air-adjust).  So I tried lowering the float level, raising the float level, retarding the timing - nothing worked. 

(http://thumb.ibb.co/j6xiaS/IMG_2811.jpg) (http://ibb.co/j6xiaS)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/g8dd9n/IMG_2823.jpg) (http://ibb.co/g8dd9n)


Has to be a worn out carb me thinks so... installed the old 28mm carb off the V50 engine out of the Monza.  Here it is running on the Monza carb.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/dQ89h7/IMG_2865.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dQ89h7)


Eliminated the backfire completely and had a stable idle - but it was an absolute bear to start cold and it fell on it's face as soon as the throttle was opened.  not even up the driveway!  (it's jetted for a 250)  Ugh, messing around with jets and needles and slides takes forever so don't want to do that.  At least the engine will idle with a good carb.

Measuring some jets with a wire gauge revealed that the backfiring idle jet had been drilled out from a 50 to a 60.  (this goes along with the oversized mainjet and the soot inside the engine) 

(http://thumb.ibb.co/gjDd9n/50idlejet.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gjDd9n)


I bodged a smaller opening with some JBWeld and it (almost) works.  It's now about a 46 so a little undersized, but the idle mix is adjustable.  And the carb doesn't need replacing (yet).  After testing with the JBWeld jet.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/mjrLN7/IMG_2872.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mjrLN7)


Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Aaron D. on March 31, 2018, 12:24:28 PM
JB Weld jetting. You have gone way past my ingenuity level!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 31, 2018, 05:34:33 PM
Good idea for a test. It won't hold up, of course. For whatever reason, "tuners" almost always decide that the jets are too small. You've just found another case.
When the Kid first got his Spot running after the restoration, it would fall on it's face at higher rpm. He found something like 150 mains. Kept going down to about 130 or so (from memory) on those 40s..  :smiley:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Sheepdog on April 01, 2018, 08:31:13 PM
Magnificent! Extraordinarily quick turnaround for such an old model, too. Well done!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on April 07, 2018, 01:36:57 PM
Dave, a great guy with enough experience to have raced a Norton Manx at Daytona (!) loaned me a 50 idle jet from his stash of Dellortos!   :grin:  They are the same as some of the SS1 carbs.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/iLE9Rc/IMG_2912.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iLE9Rc)


Then I went around making the bike more ridable. 

The rear hub is from a Sport 15 or some similar 3-speed hand-shift Guzzi with a 33 tooth rear sprocket.  The ratio was so high that you really didn't need 4th gear.  Bought a new 36 tooth blank sprocket from PBI in Oregon.  Unfortunately it was too large to fit on my little lathe so Brad, another great guy who builds things like a TZ750 street tracker (!), machined the center for me.  (I know some really great people  :bow:)  Also took the opportunity to check and clean the rear brakes again.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/i0OYKx/IMG_2822.jpg) (http://ibb.co/i0OYKx)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/ecGW6c/IMG_2851.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ecGW6c)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/cVDNCH/IMG_2852.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cVDNCH)     (http://thumb.ibb.co/gq9CCH/IMG_2848.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gq9CCH)     (http://thumb.ibb.co/d3UjRc/IMG_2863.jpg) (http://ibb.co/d3UjRc)


Heated the pipe and lowered it, then lowered the foot pegs.  I got the bike with the pipe pulled up so high that it melted the foot peg rubber and forced the peg to interfere with the shifter pivot. The muffler is supposed to sit low enough to remove the rear axle above it, but it sat mostly above the rear axle.  Now the pipe is in stock position and foot pegs about 1" lower.  Lowering the foot pegs improved the geometry of the rear brake so now it is slightly more effective.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/bTgOmc/IMG_2879.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bTgOmc)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/guyEsH/IMG_2893.jpg) (http://ibb.co/guyEsH)


I had been running the original seat off my '47 Ariel because the bike is small for me and it sat further back that the stock seat (which is hard up against the tank). You can see the Ariel seat in the first picture above.  Modified the stock seat by welding extensions for the front mount so it sits back about 3", then added tabs for the seat springs.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/k3hM6c/IMG_2882.jpg) (http://ibb.co/k3hM6c)   (http://thumb.ibb.co/jB0Vzx/IMG_2881.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jB0Vzx)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/fRncex/IMG_2886.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fRncex)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/iP3Qzx/IMG_2918.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iP3Qzx)


Also completed the battery hold-down that was missing the tie bolt.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/f0C2ex/IMG_2888.jpg) (http://ibb.co/f0C2ex)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/gavr6c/IMG_2889.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gavr6c)    (http://thumb.ibb.co/eFWTKx/IMG_2892.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eFWTKx)


Waiting for the rain to let up...

(http://thumb.ibb.co/goNJKx/IMG_2898.jpg) (http://ibb.co/goNJKx)


Set the idle mix and it ran OK so then decided to go for a ride with the GoPro. 
https://youtu.be/yrxSZ_R-k-0

(http://thumb.ibb.co/htwy4x/Apr6GTV.jpg) (http://ibb.co/htwy4x)


It is way more comfortable to ride with the lower pegs and better seat.  The bars are too wide (32") and come too far back (probably off an Alce or Ercole) so finding the stock handlebar seems like a good step.

Still some things to work out.  Idle is not very stable yet, may be a timing issue as the mag is slightly advanced from stock and it is set up as a tight wire advance when it should be slack wire advance.  Surges at low throttle openings so will try lowering the needle.  And still have to work out the starting drill!

Then there is those rock hard Pirellis from 1950 and the worn out suspension! 

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: smdl on April 07, 2018, 04:27:00 PM
Really enjoying this -- thanks for continuing to share your progress!

Cheers,
Shaun
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: canuck750 on April 08, 2018, 06:54:24 PM
Lovin it :bow:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on July 19, 2018, 11:29:37 PM
Back from the old country with new parts and new info...

(https://thumb.ibb.co/cWKVJd/IMG_4258.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cWKVJd)


Some of those parts are for my buddy's Falcone. 

The story so far:
The slicer has a split personality of some good machine work and pinstriping and crappy everything else.   The cylinder was sleeved and a new standard size piston fitted, crank and conrod machined and oversized rollers fitted to the big end,valve seats welded up.  After that the worn out, bent rusty, leaky pieces were reassembled and painted and pinstriped.  Rear wheel and hub seems to be Sport 15 (circa 1930), handlebar and controls Alce, and Falcone dynamo gear.  But what is it really?  It is a GT frame with a V engine which should make it a GTV.

Mario Columbo and others report that frames from the factory were numbered randomly. but a clue from Gordon of the Google singles group suggests numbers are not so random.  Guzzi frames started with #51 and all similar frames got a sequential number regardless of engine or equipment.  When Guzzi started producing 250cc bikes with different frames they restarted the frame sequence with #1 so apparently you could have two bikes with frame number 1234 - a 250 and a 500.   Looking at production numbers for specific models indicates that Guzzi started another new sequence when they began producing the spring frame.  So now you could have 3 frames all with the same number 1234 - a rigid frame 500, a spring frame 500 and a 250 frame.  Ian Falloon and Mario Columbo publish production numbers for individual models and years of production so number of frames/ year can be estimated.  Using this info it is likely that this GTV was built in 1937 or '38.  This makes sense because the bike looks very similar to photos of Guzzis from the mid 1930s and the GTS kept by the Guzzi Museum (which also has a similar frame number):

(https://thumb.ibb.co/m7c9dd/IMG_4111.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m7c9dd)


The difference between the GTS and GTV is that the S engine is an F-head and the V engine a hemi-head.  One problem with this engine is that welding the valve seats raised them to the point that rocker geometry was messed up  - note the valve adjuster nuts between rocker and valve stem (this was also due to worn cam followers and rockers):

(https://thumb.ibb.co/kpfsWy/IMG_0500.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kpfsWy)


So need to reseat the valves using the refurbished valve seat grinder :thumb:  Rocker geometry much better.

(https://thumb.ibb.co/hkuSWy/IMG_3536.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hkuSWy) (https://thumb.ibb.co/mgOJ4J/IMG_4266.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mgOJ4J)   (https://thumb.ibb.co/cBCjdd/IMG_4306.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cBCjdd)   (https://thumb.ibb.co/ijSZdd/IMG_4308.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ijSZdd)   (https://thumb.ibb.co/cwmGry/IMG_4314.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cwmGry)


There is also the issue with the short spark plug (or thick head :evil:).  Most spark plugs are either 1/2" reach (cast iron heads) or 3/4" reach (alloy heads), but this head is somewhere in between.

(https://thumb.ibb.co/hoUGPJ/IMG_3600.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hoUGPJ)


While in Mandello I tried to find the correct plug, but Marco at Guzzi Retro didn't have it and said - "very rare".  So attack it with the lathe:

(https://thumb.ibb.co/j1Dhyd/IMG_3603.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j1Dhyd)    (https://thumb.ibb.co/kfZpdd/IMG_3601.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kfZpdd)


With the head and rocker box off it was also a good time to replace the worn cam axle pin with the one I picked up in Mandello and replace the broken pushrod cup with new (also from Mandello) and correct the decompressor set-up.  Clearances are slowly being taken up!

(https://thumb.ibb.co/h0V9Td/IMG_4287.jpg) (https://ibb.co/h0V9Td)

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: RinkRat II on July 20, 2018, 10:17:34 AM

  Thanks for the update SED :thumb:
   Your talents are appreciated and educational.

        Paul B :boozing:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: oldbike54 on July 20, 2018, 10:23:23 AM
 Congratulations Shawn , what a brilliant job you have done here , any chance you might bring that beauty to the WG National in Cedar Vale next year ?

 Oh , and as you requested , we will move this to the bike build archives later today , but for the moment we can all revel in the amazing thing you've accomplished . :bow:

 Dusty
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: canuck750 on July 20, 2018, 11:24:50 AM
Your build continues to a great source of information and has been an inspiration to get a slicer project of my own.

A 1949 Airione was picked up from San Diego this week and is on its way to me to take over as custodian.

The Airione is complete and it runs but I have no illusions about its condition and expect to go through it form top to bottom.

Learning from your experience that parts are still available is a real comfort and sealed the deal for me.

Cheers

Jim
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on July 20, 2018, 08:19:20 PM
Thank you all for the kind words - though you might change your tune if you saw it in person - lets just say it looks good in photos and from about 30' away!   :grin:

Your build continues to a great source of information and has been an inspiration to get a slicer project of my own.

A 1949 Airione was picked up from San Diego this week and is on its way to me to take over as custodian.

The Airione is complete and it runs but I have no illusions about its condition and expect to go through it form top to bottom.

Learning from your experience that parts are still available is a real comfort and sealed the deal for me.

Cheers

Jim

Congratulations Jim. You will like the Airone.  I got to work on a friends Airone (which is gorgeous and making me consider a full-on paint and chrome job) and it is like 7/8 scale Falcone, which is mechanically very similar to the GTV so a lot of the info here will help... 

BTW - the Airone head might also need the 5/8" reach plug - my friends had a 3/4" reach plug in it but only inserted about 5/8"!  It has an alloy head.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on July 20, 2018, 09:22:55 PM
So the cylinder head is back on and the timing case buttoned up.  But there were a few more things on the laundry list -

Just before we left on vacation the baffle came loose in the muffler and was rattling around.  Removed the fishtail (3 screws) and drilled out the spot welds and the baffle came out.  Welded the pieces back together and reinstalled. (I've got a new muffler on order, but cant stand the racket, plus I want to get the timing and carburation dialed so it doesn't burn the chrome on the new muffler.)

(https://thumb.ibb.co/nF7ypJ/IMG_4315.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nF7ypJ)


Then there was the uncertain running so I bought a new idle jet and new float needle & seat so that I'd know fuel level was correct.  The old float seat was a bear to get out (kroil, time and gentle heat) but installed the new parts, turn on the fuel and gas floods everywhere.  The new seat leaks!  It's got a nick in it.   :angry:

(https://thumb.ibb.co/nHcqmy/IMG_4324mod.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nHcqmy)


So compared height of needle in the old and new seats and used a sealing washer to make up the difference.  Old seat, new needle, stock fuel height - no leaks. 

Then there was the little issue of the loose points plate...  Unlike Mr. Lucas, Mr. Marelli's magnetos have a keyway, so you don't loose your timing even if the points plate is loose.  Bike starts and runs but poorly - how did that bolt get loose?  :embarrassed:

Then the battery voltage is down and the lights don't light up...  6 month old AGM battery voltage is 5.5 volts, but then sometimes 3.5 and sometimes 6.3.  The gremlins have been running rampant in the shop!  Replaced under warranty.

Finally got the bike running and idling decently but I can't solve the problem of transitioning from idle to 1/4 throttle (Dellorto calls this the progression circuit) - the bike spits through the carb or dies completely if the slide is lifted a tiny amount and held there - it's too lean.  The progression is controlled by a passage below the slide, idle jet size, fuel level and slide cutaway.  The passage is clear, the idle jet is correct, the fuel level is correct and the cutaway is stock.  I've run leaner and richer idle jets, raised and lowered float level, raised and lowered the needle - nothing has worked.  Only thing left seems to be a smaller slide cutaway.  But 80 year old slides are tough to find.  Decided to make a change that is reversible by gluing a piece of brass of the correct shape inside the slide.  This is the result:

(https://thumb.ibb.co/buNgRy/IMG_4347.jpg) (https://ibb.co/buNgRy)


Big improvement!  We have transition (progression)!  The engine still hunts a bit when feathering the throttle and still occasionally spits through the carb or backfires out the muffler - but now it seems solvable.  BTW cutaway was lowered from stock 70 (7mm) to 50 (5mm).  May have to go to 4mm cutaway or larger idle jet or raise needle.  The problem is likely too much air due to a worn carb body so lowering cutaway (or a brand new Mikuni!) is probably the solution.








Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on July 20, 2018, 09:25:25 PM
Oh , and as you requested , we will move this to the bike build archives later today , but for the moment we can all revel in the amazing thing you've accomplished . :bow:

 Dusty

Thanks Dusty!  Don't know about Cedar Vale - right now 25 miles is a big trip on this bike!   :grin:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Frenchfrog on July 21, 2018, 05:59:09 AM
So much good work !!!!!
There must be someone in the US that could rebore and sleeve the carb and make or adapt anothe slide........Older repro dellorto carb parts are available too I think.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on July 23, 2018, 10:06:07 PM
So much good work !!!!!
There must be someone in the US that could rebore and sleeve the carb and make or adapt anothe slide........Older repro dellorto carb parts are available too I think.

Thanks!
There is a guy not too far from here that bores Amals - maybe he can do an old Dellorto.  I've also learned that this is done in Italy. 

Do you know someone who does it?
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Frenchfrog on July 26, 2018, 06:43:55 AM
Had an Amal monoblock rebored and new matching hard chromed slide made for my heavyweight Panther in the late 80's .At that point that was the only way to go as no repro's were available  but can't recall who did it....In any case I'm sure that someone in the US can do dellorto's but not sure. Wolfgang Harter who does Laverda's might be able to help...a good thorough internet search should give a name.Certainly very much worth doing....alternativ ly there may be repro older Dellorto's available
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on December 01, 2018, 01:50:11 PM
Update on the slicer. 

Back in late July the slicer was finally getting easier to ride. After re-positioning the seat I cut the 33" wide Ercole truck handlebar down to 28" and straitened it the best I could. Clutch, brake, throttle and decompressor cables were replaced and readjusted. Except for terrible brakes and some carb problems it was starting to feel like a useable motorbike. 
Can you imagine these bars 5" wider?!

(https://i.ibb.co/kyvq4bP/IMG-4404sm.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kyvq4bP)


This was getting so exciting that ordered new tires and leg shields (!) when they popped up on the Guzzi singles page.  Leg shields were original equipment on all the GT (Gran Tourismo) frame bikes.  The shields are essentially NOS - no dents or filler or bent brackets or crushed edges & original paint!  :shocked:
Unfortunately they touch the tank at the top.  These must be Falcone Tourimo leg shields.  They even have the cutout for the Falcone oil return line (second photo).  It would be easy to modify them, but better to trade for the correct ones.

(https://i.ibb.co/HgT5gNJ/IMG-4398.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HgT5gNJ)    (https://i.ibb.co/KynNzwH/IMG-4400.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KynNzwH)
 

As the bike got easier to ride the carburation seemed worse and worse. It had a persistent (and loud) backfire on the overrun. It would hunt and surge at low throttle openings and occasionally backfire through the carb. All the evidence pointed to the carb delivering too little fuel as the throttle transitioned off idle.  I tried the VHBH28 off the Monza - same problem but worse.  In desperation I ordered a brand new Mikuni: same problem - unless it was ridden with the enrichener, but then it wouldn't idle.       

(https://i.ibb.co/sWtcNyB/IMG-4459.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sWtcNyB)


Worse - it started to miss at idle and became difficult to start.  Arggh!  I parked it.

Finally the light bulb came on and I started to think magneto  :undecided:  90% of carb problems are electrical  :laugh:

My buddy Carlo had a spare dead magneto and he kindly let me play with it.  Amazed myself by getting it working!  :afro:
See all the ugly details here: https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=98236.0

So about a month ago it was time to pull the mag on the GTV.  Found someone had eliminated the spark safety gap when they installed a replacement condenser.  Every time the engine misfired the high-voltage spark would find its way to ground through the fine windings of the high-tension coil.  Eventually this burned through the thin wire; it was only still working because the voltage could jump the gap along the carbon trace.  Ohm meter showed no continuity.  (connect meter leads to the spark wire lead-out and other to magneto ground)  Shipped the armature to Mark's Magneto Service in CT for a rewind. 
Armature due back around the first of the year...  :popcorn:

(https://i.ibb.co/8bxyybY/IMG-5552.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8bxyybY)    (https://i.ibb.co/cCR73Ds/IMG-5353.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cCR73Ds)   (https://i.ibb.co/gTt1qD0/IMG-5370.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gTt1qD0)   (https://i.ibb.co/SKVsrMx/IMG-5407.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SKVsrMx)   (https://i.ibb.co/5x24Nzq/IMG-5454crop.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5x24Nzq)

 
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on December 02, 2018, 10:26:07 PM
With it sitting on the bench, it's time to get some other work done.

Pulled wheels and brakes to get brakes re-lined. 

(https://i.ibb.co/YycvTH8/IMG-5523.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YycvTH8)   (https://i.ibb.co/VYQ9CxC/IMG-5544.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VYQ9CxC)


And took a couple pieces to the chrome shop: Unfortunately, plater forgot to chrome the cap!  :tongue:

(https://i.ibb.co/85XW3qk/IMG-5545.jpg) (https://ibb.co/85XW3qk)    (https://i.ibb.co/f0WpRR4/IMG-5548sm.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f0WpRR4)    (https://i.ibb.co/8xJHP7b/IMG-5551crop.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8xJHP7b)


The pushrod tube aligns pushrods when installing the head. Worn cam followers and rocker bushings messed up pushrod alignment enough to wear out the tube ends.  The wear made installing the head a PITA. Repair seemed like a lot of work to get it right so sprang for a new tube and had it plated.  Before and after:

(https://i.ibb.co/XFgws3K/IMG-5552.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XFgws3K)   (https://i.ibb.co/3sFKYB5/IMG-5554.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3sFKYB5)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on December 15, 2018, 11:29:18 PM
Brakes back from relining.

(https://i.ibb.co/qYh8Wxt/IMG-5589.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qYh8Wxt)



Thought about pulling the spokes and repainting the brake hub, drum and rim, but would have broken a lot of spokes. 

(https://i.ibb.co/QdYfpS1/IMG-5591.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QdYfpS1)


Pulling spokes and painting would have lead down the path of changing color to the correct amaranth burgundy which would lead to more disassembly and pretty soon its an out of control restoration and it will become (more of) a money pit and I'll never get to ride it except to worry about the first scratch and then guilt over the that scratch....
better to install a new rim-strip, tube and Dunlop K70 instead (appropriate Pirellis not to be found).

(https://i.ibb.co/hfSJtBN/IMG-5594.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hfSJtBN)


Unfortunately the rear drum is bent with an egg-shaped opening so 1/2 the braking surface is not parallel to the shoe surface.  I can get a repop drum from Italy for north of $100, but there's also a broken spoke and rim is a rusty mess with peeling chrome.  And it's not even the right wheel - brake, hub, cush drive are for an older Sport 14 or 15.  Do I spend more $$$ on the wrong wheel?

(https://i.ibb.co/jvJzH0x/IMG-5585sm.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jvJzH0x)    (https://i.ibb.co/740X5sM/IMG-5595.jpg) (https://ibb.co/740X5sM)    (https://i.ibb.co/SNrttr0/IMG-5598.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SNrttr0)   (https://i.ibb.co/SnDkvp6/IMG-5599.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SnDkvp6)    (https://i.ibb.co/4mXnFZf/IMG-5601.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4mXnFZf)



Amazingly I have a few spokes and a rim that fit. I'll probably put it together with good parts even if I don't keep the wheel.  Where is the throwing money and time away icon?    :rolleyes:

(https://i.ibb.co/1fKWtwH/IMG-5600.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1fKWtwH)

 
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: RinkRat II on December 17, 2018, 04:08:31 PM

       Where is the throwing money and time away icon?...... Closest thing I could find for Ya
(https://i.ibb.co/rfxRPTz/emoj.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rfxRPTz)

             Thanks for the updates 
               Paul B :boozing:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on January 01, 2019, 10:01:08 PM
       Where is the throwing money and time away icon?...... Closest thing I could find for Ya
(https://i.ibb.co/rfxRPTz/emoj.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rfxRPTz)

             Thanks for the updates 
               Paul B :boozing:

That's it Paul!  When the smile goes away, I stop burning it for a while, but the smile keeps coming back!  :boozing:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on January 01, 2019, 10:40:04 PM
A couple of eventful things...

I started keeping Guzzi frame and engine numbers in a spreadsheet to try to determine the year this bike was built - it is misidentified on the title and Guzzi numbering from before about 1950 has been described as "Random".  32 frame numbers lined up show that the frame was built about 1937, engine 1948.  I've got dating requests in with the UK club and the factory.  Haven't heard anything yet, but confident they will confirm.

Also generated an illustrated version of the GTV shop manual that Patrick Hayes translated.  He graciously sent me a version I could edit so added pictures and tables from the original "manuale per operazione di smontaggio, controllo e montaggio" and some additional photos and diagrams.  It will be much easier to work from. 

Rebuilt the rear wheel with a better rim and replaced 1/2 the spokes.  Drum and cush-drive hub have to be pressed off the hub:

(https://i.ibb.co/n67dR6f/IMG-5599.jpg) (https://ibb.co/n67dR6f) (https://i.ibb.co/k3SfZ3k/IMG-5643.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k3SfZ3k) (https://i.ibb.co/ZfZsJYG/IMG-5644.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZfZsJYG) (https://i.ibb.co/tYVj2hX/IMG-5646.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tYVj2hX) (https://i.ibb.co/ypQ14kh/IMG-5649.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ypQ14kh) (https://i.ibb.co/7WLV3x8/IMG-5651.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7WLV3x8)


Stripped the paint off the spokes and pickled and painted those I was reusing. Wheel was laced 4-cross!
(https://i.ibb.co/rsjQbC1/IMG-5653.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rsjQbC1) (https://i.ibb.co/RpHB4Ts/IMG-5655.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RpHB4Ts) (https://i.ibb.co/j6zDyb7/IMG-5657.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j6zDyb7) (https://i.ibb.co/ZLKdzRN/IMG-5658.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZLKdzRN) (https://i.ibb.co/NN2Szhp/IMG-5660.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NN2Szhp)


Was surprised that I was able to get the runout down to 0.030 or so.  Drum, cush-drive and sprocket back on; new Dunlop tire and good to go!
(https://i.ibb.co/k90NgwS/IMG-5661.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k90NgwS) (https://i.ibb.co/NYf5LLK/IMG-5665.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NYf5LLK) (https://i.ibb.co/vsDDNCy/IMG-5669.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vsDDNCy) (https://i.ibb.co/61KcR2M/IMG-5670.jpg) (https://ibb.co/61KcR2M) (https://i.ibb.co/ftxk3Xj/IMG-5688.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ftxk3Xj)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Rick4003 on January 02, 2019, 05:40:17 AM
Good job on the wheel lacing, it look great!

Interesting with the different years of engine and frame. Perhaps the original engine was swapped out at some point in its short life  :tongue:

Keep on the great work! :bike-037:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: canuck750 on January 02, 2019, 07:51:12 PM
Looks great, I am going to dive into my 250 Airone in 2019 and will be referring to your excellent detailed post!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on January 02, 2019, 10:34:35 PM
Good job on the wheel lacing, it look great!

Interesting with the different years of engine and frame. Perhaps the original engine was swapped out at some point in its short life  :tongue:

Keep on the great work! :bike-037:
This seems common with older bikes - the '39 Ariel is a mismatched frame and engine, but the Ariel factory only tracked the engine number so no info on the frame without lots of work.

And this GTV seems to have a later engine and earlier wheels and brakes (Sport 15 or GT17) and large cycle-truck (Ercole?) handlebars.  The mismatches and bodges and sand in the engine suggests that it spent much of its life in North Africa being bodged and repaired with left over parts on a shoestring.  An exciting history (Tobruk 1941?) I would love to know, but what a mess now!

Guzzi seems to have numbered frames and engines sequentially with jumps in the numbering - like frames starting at 6000 in 1936 and starting at 8,000 in 1938, but maybe not changing in 1937?.   Frame is 6439.  According to Ian Falloon 6555 GTVs were made but GTV frame numbers I've found range from 2811 to 26668 so clearly large gaps.  These are GT frames so they also include GTS and GT17s (and others) produced during the same interval.  Engine numbers range from V16664 to V80280 so again too many numbers.  This engine number falls near the end of production.

Probably more common to swap engines with older chain drive bikes than with modern or shaft drive bikes.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on January 02, 2019, 10:37:17 PM
Looks great, I am going to dive into my 250 Airone in 2019 and will be referring to your excellent detailed post!

I'm working on an illustrated version of the GTV manual based on Patrick Hayes translation.  The structure of the bikes and manuals is so similar it might be helpful.  I'll send you a copy when finished.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: canuck750 on January 03, 2019, 09:25:32 AM
I'm working on an illustrated version of the GTV manual based on Patrick Hayes translation.  The structure of the bikes and manuals is so similar it might be helpful.  I'll send you a copy when finished.

THANKS!!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on January 05, 2019, 09:57:51 PM
So it wasn't quite good to go....

The square hole in the brake lever arm was too large and not quite square.  The hole needed to be welded up and redone. 

Cleaning and inspection revealed a crack in the chrome.  It looked a little too prominent so sanded the chrome off to reveal a crack in the brake arm!  Started grinding it out before getting the camera, but the heat drove old oil out of the crack making it visible.  Weirdly the crack is on the compression side of the arm so can't figure out how it would form.

(https://i.ibb.co/JvzxQ0B/IMG-5697.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JvzxQ0B)    (https://i.ibb.co/h9pFgDg/IMG-5698.jpg) (https://ibb.co/h9pFgDg)


After welding and polishing and filing we have a better brake arm.  Filed the hole with a slight taper so it would tighten down on the brake pivot.   All it needs is chrome...  at some later date!  :grin:

(https://i.ibb.co/41M9M9M/IMG-5701.jpg) (https://ibb.co/41M9M9M)    (https://i.ibb.co/3hFXCpH/IMG-5704.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3hFXCpH)


Relined brakes and repaired brake arm feel really good on the bench.  Just waiting for sparks to motor around.  :bike-037:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on January 06, 2019, 11:45:03 PM
idle hands are the devil's playground or some such non-sense?

(https://i.ibb.co/Dr548ss/IMG-5706.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Dr548ss)   (https://i.ibb.co/tcPFNmP/IMG-5707.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tcPFNmP)   (https://i.ibb.co/0C1WML9/IMG-5712.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0C1WML9)   (https://i.ibb.co/gzRKgcH/IMG-5713.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gzRKgcH)


Deja vu all over again...   :rolleyes:

(https://i.ibb.co/7GSpN0K/IMG-5714.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7GSpN0K)   (https://i.ibb.co/yh2yGnC/IMG-5720.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yh2yGnC)


Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 15, 2019, 09:10:16 AM
Refreshed my failing memory on this thread this morning. Really good stuff, Shaun.
Quote
Finally the light bulb came on and I started to think magneto  :undecided: 90% of carb problems are electrical  :laugh:

BTDT. There's a reason I've mentioned that a few times.  :grin:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on January 15, 2019, 10:31:59 PM
Funny you mentioned it Chuck, the rewound armature came back yesterday.  Set it on the lathe and it sparks pretty consistently at 140rpm - only 280 rpm kickstart speed!   :grin:    and it still needs remagnetizing. 

(https://i.ibb.co/4T2gKSH/IMG-5779.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4T2gKSH)   (https://i.ibb.co/GW9LYQv/IMG-5780.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GW9LYQv)


More on the magneto here: https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=98236.0


Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on January 19, 2019, 08:33:08 PM
Took the mag to the magneto guy for a recharge today followed by a little test on the spark gap. 
(https://i.ibb.co/PGFQMHm/IMG-5823.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PGFQMHm)   (https://i.ibb.co/cLgnNNf/IMG-5824.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cLgnNNf)   (https://i.ibb.co/nwNxc16/IMG-5825.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nwNxc16)


He's got a huge wealth of knowledge about magnetos for everything from 120 year old telephones, make & break stationary engines, drag saws and dynamite igniters (what do you call those things?) - plus your run-of-the-mill trucks and tractors. 
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on January 21, 2019, 01:14:05 PM
The timing cover had to be pulled to do the magneto work.  The flywheel and primary cover had to be pulled to replace the generator drive gear with the correct piece, but I didn't need to pull the engine...  However... I'd left out a part!  A shield/spacer under the direct drive gear disappeared during installation.  It was later found under the stove!  :embarrassed:  It's a shield for the felt washer. The gear engagement was not affected as I'd made thicker spacer for the other side of the bearing.  But it was also jumping out of 2nd after shifting down from 3rd so wondered about 2nd gear engagement or a damaged shifting cam...

Pull barrel, split cases, 2nd gear engagement OK.  Disassembled shifter camshaft checked out OK.  Culprit is probably worn pawls in the shifter ratchet that is external to the crankcase.

(https://i.ibb.co/Zh806tZ/IMG-5723.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Zh806tZ)    (https://i.ibb.co/41bssSV/IMG-5724.jpg) (https://ibb.co/41bssSV)    (https://i.ibb.co/bjVZpfY/IMG-5725.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bjVZpfY)    (https://i.ibb.co/C1V4WX3/IMG-5731.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C1V4WX3)    (https://i.ibb.co/5KsZzQQ/IMG-5733.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5KsZzQQ)


Below: 4th gear on the right.  Missing shield is between bearing and spacer with red arrow. Red arrow spacer is reversed in photo and should be installed flat side to bearing.  There is another spacer at the gold arrow.  3rd picture shows the shield correctly oriented with recess toward bearing and "red arrow" spacer reversed.  Bearing to be removed is a special narrow size - nearly unobtanium.

(https://i.ibb.co/qnSZZDS/IMG-2588mod.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qnSZZDS)    (https://i.ibb.co/2c0DsXm/IMG-2046mod.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2c0DsXm)   (https://i.ibb.co/Mh91krs/IMG-2089.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Mh91krs)    (https://i.ibb.co/NNdtvsn/IMG-5739.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NNdtvsn)
 

Guzzi peened the case around the bearings to hold them in place.  Even the later shop manuals don't mention heating the cases to install or remove bearings.  I'd installed the bearing and shield in a hot case but this one was so loose when warm it and the shield dropped out - which is the whole cause of this mess.  Peening is the only way the bearings are secured.

So how to get the bearing out without destroying it?  I carved away the peening with an exacto knife and installed a puller.  The only way was to pull against the inner race - but heat and gentle pressure on the puller (mostly turning the screw by hand) worked it out.  Bearing still felt good after removing

(https://i.ibb.co/VvVmfqc/IMG-5748.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VvVmfqc)   (https://i.ibb.co/pQ1K6yS/IMG-5749.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pQ1K6yS)



Spacer bearing and shield - the "red arrow" spacer should be installed at the same time as the felt seal as it is almost impossible to get install it after the seal.  Case should be peened around the bearings securely as it is the only thing holding the bearings in place.  Cases almost ready to join.  Closed up.

(https://i.ibb.co/yPN4NXR/IMG-5751.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yPN4NXR)    (https://i.ibb.co/FJMtdC9/IMG-5763.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FJMtdC9)    (https://i.ibb.co/tzzTjjz/IMG-5771.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tzzTjjz)



The "red arrow" spacer should be installed with the felt seal even though nothing holds it except the tension of the felt.  (there is a similar combination of felt and spacer under the roller bearing)  If not, the felt will close up enough to prevent the flat side of the spacer from seating against the bearing.  Unfortunately I'd not installed it with the felt.   :rolleyes:  Here's my solution: cut 0.005" shim stock and wrap it inside the felt to form a collar.  Seat the collar against the bearing.  Splay the outer edge of the collar just enough to insert the spacer and push the spacer down to the bearing.  Hold the spacer in place and pull out the collar with pliers.

(https://i.ibb.co/tzHxMNC/IMG-5816.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tzHxMNC)    (https://i.ibb.co/k99G2kS/IMG-5817.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k99G2kS)


Repaint and install cylinder with new base gasket.  Head on just to clamp the cylinder in place.

(https://i.ibb.co/GRZpYZy/IMG-5822.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GRZpYZy)    (https://i.ibb.co/7kRkWRV/IMG-5827.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7kRkWRV)


Install drive sprocket, kickstart, clutch basket and clutch, clutch pushrod, clutch springs (compress to 27mm for GTV) and cover.

(https://i.ibb.co/zhpB0s9/IMG-5821.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zhpB0s9)    (https://i.ibb.co/b1F5ddq/IMG-5830.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b1F5ddq)    (https://i.ibb.co/BqRhSd2/IMG-5832.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BqRhSd2)    (https://i.ibb.co/3rHfxw4/IMG-5836.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3rHfxw4)   (https://i.ibb.co/fvXR9tT/IMG-5837.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fvXR9tT)
 
(https://i.ibb.co/JdQ9bxN/IMG-5839.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JdQ9bxN)   (https://i.ibb.co/yPVw1px/IMG-5840.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yPVw1px)  (https://i.ibb.co/z7qBccM/IMG-5843.jpg) (https://ibb.co/z7qBccM)    (https://i.ibb.co/nkGycCX/IMG-5846.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nkGycCX)



Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: canuck750 on January 21, 2019, 09:27:11 PM
 :thumb:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Rick4003 on January 23, 2019, 06:14:46 AM
Nice work.

The missing shield story is very similar to the missing oil slinger washer that I found after putting my Alfa motor back together, I chose to take 2 mm of the diameter of the slinger so it could go through the hole for the front oil seal instead of taking the engine completely apart again. Hopefully it won't make a difference if the washer is 50 or 52mm in diameter. :grin:

Looking forward to follow the rest of your process!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on January 23, 2019, 10:09:41 PM
The reason for pulling the primary cover was to replace the generator drive gear.  It had been replaced by a Falcone alloy drive gear - but to make it fit the hub had to be cut down to a small diameter and i promptly cracked.  The Falcone must have a much larger hole in the case for the drive gear hub.

The correct GTV drive gear has a steel hub of much smaller diameter.   Guzzi Retro had a kit with hub and alloy gear (original was a phenolic gear with a bad reputation for stripping on startup). It's only $$$.

All alloy Falcone gear and correct 7(!) piece GTV gear.

(https://i.ibb.co/wBdTtTh/IMG-5715.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wBdTtTh)    (https://i.ibb.co/thFdZ1W/IMG-5849.jpg) (https://ibb.co/thFdZ1W) 


But first I had to replace the drive end bearing with one from Guzzi Retro.  Bearing is an E13 or N13 same as the magneto bearings.  The brush end of the generator has a smaller bearing.  Also made a new leather seal to fit between the endplate and the bearing.  I'd already replaced brushes and regulator and cleaned up the innards.

 (https://i.ibb.co/LNVtBfZ/IMG-5847.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LNVtBfZ)
   

Correct gear mesh is achieved by rotating the generator in its cradle - though this one also needed a spacer under the gen.  Just visible in the the 3rd picture is a rubber seal (rectangular section O-ring) between the gen endplate and the crankcase.

(https://i.ibb.co/WkLDP4F/IMG-5854.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WkLDP4F)   (https://i.ibb.co/DgCXKts/IMG-5855.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DgCXKts)    (https://i.ibb.co/nDddpbh/IMG-5857.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nDddpbh)    (https://i.ibb.co/B26p4dk/IMG-5856.jpg) (https://ibb.co/B26p4dk)


Put it in the frame before it gets too heavy! 

(https://i.ibb.co/2WFzSRx/IMG-5860.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2WFzSRx)

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on January 23, 2019, 10:13:05 PM
Nice work.

The missing shield story is very similar to the missing oil slinger washer that I found after putting my Alfa motor back together, I chose to take 2 mm of the diameter of the slinger so it could go through the hole for the front oil seal instead of taking the engine completely apart again. Hopefully it won't make a difference if the washer is 50 or 52mm in diameter. :grin:

Looking forward to follow the rest of your process!

 :thumb:

Glad you find it interesting!  Definitely a weird machine.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on January 25, 2019, 11:23:31 PM
Head and flywheel on.
(https://i.ibb.co/KWvQGtf/IMG-5863.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KWvQGtf)


Timing gears and magneto on next.   Check the gear mesh.
(https://i.ibb.co/bR33KRV/IMG-5868.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bR33KRV)


The exhaust valve train was noisy when running, couldn't find the cause.  Assembling the valve train without the pushrod tube allowed wiggling of all the parts and revealed an oversized cup on the exhaust cam follower.  It was sold to me to replace the original that was cracked (probably cracked when the pushrod bent...) - so likely the wrong part.  Do later pushrods have larger ends?  Fortunately I had bought a second that was the right size.  Swapped them and no more slop.  Hopefully the engine is quiet as a mouse now!
(https://i.ibb.co/nBGddL6/IMG-5865.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nBGddL6)


Cover on, fill cambox with oil, then install pushrod tube and rockerbox.
(https://i.ibb.co/3hgGpNh/IMG-5869.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3hgGpNh)   (https://i.ibb.co/HYzNX9C/IMG-5870.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HYzNX9C)


Hoping the rewound mag gives easier starting, consistent idle and eliminates banging on the overun.  And the noisy valve is solved.  Maybe find out tomorrow!

 :bike-037:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: smdl on January 26, 2019, 12:44:19 AM
Fingers crossed!  Please keep us posted.

Cheers,
Shaun
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Rick4003 on January 27, 2019, 07:41:49 AM
Yes Fingers crossed from here too!

And make us a video!  :thumb: :bike-037:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on January 27, 2019, 05:33:32 PM
Nothing is ever quite as simple....

Replaced the cross-threaded nut on the engine breather and lapped in the taper on the weeping fuel tap. (Guzzi logo!)

(https://i.ibb.co/SfYD9Gw/IMG-5875.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SfYD9Gw)   (https://i.ibb.co/SK0ZSc6/IMG-5881.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SK0ZSc6)



Yesterday - ready to try to start.  There was very little old gas in the tank, but the old Dellorto flooded anyway.  It eventually started but ran terribly.  Couldn't tell if it was getting too much or too little fuel - though the plug was black.

(https://i.ibb.co/0mXF35X/Start1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0mXF35X)


Got a couple gallons of fresh gas this morning and put on a Mikuni that had worked OK.  It started but was way out of adjustment - idling too fast and too rich.  Finally got it down to a stable idle.  It would start easily and idle smooth.  So went for a test ride.

It popped through the carb a couple times until warm then ran just fine.  Never banged in the exhaust, or pinged or coughed. Idled fine at the stops. Shifted cleanly and never jumped out of gear. Brakes still very feeble (a design feature!), but more feel and no more squeaks.  New tires and rebuilt rear wheel roll smooth and track straight.  It doesn't rev very high, but pulls strongly.  Rode it about 10-12 miles up to 50 mph or so. 

Feels much more reliable!

(https://i.ibb.co/kHHBXG0/IMG-5880.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kHHBXG0)


Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 27, 2019, 06:14:14 PM
Congrats! Quite an achievement and a testament to stick toitevness.. :smiley:
Quote
Timing gears and magneto on next.   Check the gear mesh.
I don't remember why it's off by a tooth?
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on January 27, 2019, 07:49:10 PM
I don't remember why it's off by a tooth?

No, timing was correct, this is for gear mesh.  This bike came with a shim under the mag (old Italian cardboard sparkplug chart) and the parts books for later slicers show a shim under the mag.  I didn't expect the dynamo to need a shim because it can be rotated in its cradle, but even it needed a shim - so I was looking for it when I got to the mag.

I'll take a video in the next day or two.   :bike-037:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: canuck750 on January 28, 2019, 04:51:54 PM
Congratulations!!  :bow: :bow: :bow:

Love what you have done with this beauty.

Jim
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on January 29, 2019, 09:35:27 PM
OK here's the video of the cold start today.  Rode a quick 11 mile loop and still need to sort out some carburation, but definitely working well (for an 80 year old moto).
https://youtu.be/nxg19EWRoUo (https://youtu.be/nxg19EWRoUo)


(https://i.ibb.co/cXTwf1X/IMG-5900.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cXTwf1X)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Rick4003 on January 29, 2019, 09:50:02 PM
Love it! Makes me want to find a slicer for myself too!

It doesn't only look good from 30 feet, it looks like it looks good up close too in that video. And I love the valve train too!
Is it possible to make a video while riding? It would be cool to hear how it sounds under power :)

Also, label your video so people can find it with the search function. I'm sure there is other people who would love to watch the video but don't subscribe to this forum.

-Ulrik
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: canuck750 on January 29, 2019, 10:07:42 PM
That sound great!

The exposed valve springs and rockers moving back and forth along with the spinning flywheel and the great engine noise / exhaust note make for one heck of an impression.

 :drool:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Unkept on January 30, 2019, 11:51:19 AM
Awesome progress, thanks for sharing that video! So cool.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on February 03, 2019, 06:07:51 PM
Here's a video taken on this morning's test ride (before it started to snow).  Idle mix is getting closer...

https://youtu.be/7scht3RhwR4
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: smdl on February 03, 2019, 07:47:37 PM
Here's a video taken on this morning's test ride (before it started to snow).  Idle mix is getting closer...

https://youtu.be/7scht3RhwR4

Fantastic!  Seems to perform very well! 

Looks so much like a local ride around here (I'm on Vancouver Island).  I'd love to see it in person, some day.

Thanks for sharing the journey.

Cheers,
Shaun
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on February 05, 2019, 09:03:55 PM
Fantastic!  Seems to perform very well! 

Looks so much like a local ride around here (I'm on Vancouver Island).  I'd love to see it in person, some day.

Thanks for sharing the journey.

Cheers,
Shaun

Thanks Shaun.
Pretty amazing for only 18.9 horse power!  It's a little torque monster but does run out of breath pretty quick above about 60 mph...   

It should look similar, I'm just the other side of the Salish Sea (do you call it that there?) in Bellingham - big leaf maples, Doug firs, wet roads...  :grin:

Cheers,
(another) Shawn
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: smdl on February 05, 2019, 09:21:46 PM
Thanks Shaun.
Pretty amazing for only 18.9 horse power!  It's a little torque monster but does run out of breath pretty quick above about 60 mph...   

It should look similar, I'm just the other side of the Salish Sea (do you call it that there?) in Bellingham - big leaf maples, Doug firs, wet roads...  :grin:

Cheers,
(another) Shawn

Hi, Shawn.

The official name, here, is Strait of Georgia, but Salish Sea is also commonly heard.

I'm usually down in your neck of the woods at least once or twice a year.  I'd love to stop by and have a look at your slicer when in that area, sometime.  In the meantime, I'll continue to watch this thread to get my fix.   :drool:

Cheers,
Shaun

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on February 05, 2019, 10:22:48 PM
For a long time the rear end of the Slicer has looked caddywhompus.  The rear frame arms (seat stays) don't align with the swingarm dropouts - most obviously when installing the rear friction dampers.  Despite the skew it is possible to align the wheels and the bike seems to track straight.

Probably the rear frame arms were bent so pulled them and found they had been welded and not cleaned up.  Of course they'd been painted.   :rolleyes:   Someone disassembled and painted the entire bike (except the wheels) then pinstriped it, but they didn't bother to clean up welds, repair worn out parts or even fix leaks in the tanks!!!   Even the horizontal pinstripe on the tank top is crooked.   :violent1:




Bumpy weld continues over to the mating surface.  Clamping the arms together shows the splay.

(https://i.ibb.co/FWCjrbd/IMG-5906.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FWCjrbd)   (https://i.ibb.co/QJkHdYH/IMG-5911.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QJkHdYH)   (https://i.ibb.co/6JqptFg/IMG-5909.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6JqptFg)


All that was needed was to level the mating surface.  Swingarm alignment will need to be checked when I remove it, but it measures up pretty close and the frame and swingarm are in better alignment.  Easy fix!   :grin:   

(https://i.ibb.co/DW82TZd/IMG-5912.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DW82TZd)   (https://i.ibb.co/DwgjhZ7/IMG-5913.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DwgjhZ7)   (https://i.ibb.co/bdhT2FF/IMG-5914.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bdhT2FF)


The rack and chain guard are still a mess probably because the rack is for an early GTV and the chain guard a later one.  Eventually it will get sorted...
 
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on February 05, 2019, 10:25:59 PM
Hi, Shawn.

The official name, here, is Strait of Georgia, but Salish Sea is also commonly heard.

I'm usually down in your neck of the woods at least once or twice a year.  I'd love to stop by and have a look at your slicer when in that area, sometime.  In the meantime, I'll continue to watch this thread to get my fix.   :drool:

Cheers,
Shaun

Yeah - Let me know!  Also our club is putting on a classic motorcycle show and swap April 27 at the Lynden Fairgrounds.  Might be a good time to visit.   
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: smdl on February 05, 2019, 10:27:26 PM
Yeah - Let me know!  Also our club is putting on a classic motorcycle show and swap April 27 at the Lynden Fairgrounds.  Might be a good time to visit.

I saw that!  Will make it if I can.

Cheers,
Shaun
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on February 16, 2019, 11:26:11 PM
Decided to clean up and adjust the front fork lower links.  The uppers had been done last year and the I'm not ready to rebush and install the other girder I have, so...

Pulled the pin(s)  Is that still a thing? 

(https://i.ibb.co/7k5DNDg/IMG-6016.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7k5DNDg)   (https://i.ibb.co/ssZ6b7m/IMG-6017.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ssZ6b7m)    (https://i.ibb.co/8m1Gg9y/IMG-6021smi.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8m1Gg9y)   (https://i.ibb.co/99t1PTr/IMG-6028.jpg) (https://ibb.co/99t1PTr)   (https://i.ibb.co/rkgJRt4/IMG-6040.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rkgJRt4)


Decided to record some dimensions while at it:
      upper pivot pin diameter = 11 mm
      upper pivot pin bushing    ID = 11 mm
                          OD = 14 mm
upper bronze thrust washers (#8050 ter x4)    ID = 11.2 mm  (left side may be 13.2 mm to clear shoulder on pin)
               - specs from Super Alce parts book   OD = 23 mm
                                          thickness = 1 mm

      lower pivot pin diameter = 13 mm
      lower pivot pin bushing    ID = 13 mm
                          OD = 16 mm
lower bronze thrust washers (#8054 bis x4)    ID = 13.2 mm (left side may be 15.2 mm to clear shoulder on pin)
   - dimensions based on #8050 ter           OD = 25 mm
                                          thickness = 1 mm

maximum play in pivots due to wear = 0.10 mm (0.004)  From Alce and Sport 15 shop manuals.

steel side plates for damper = 2 mm thick

phenolic friction material for damper = 4 mm thick

Width of girder and steering head at upper and lower pivots is 167 mm.

The bushings were egg shaped and the pivot pins quite worn.  New pins were too large for the bushings so gave the opportunity to restore the bushings by reaming to fit.

(https://i.ibb.co/pxYhLLB/IMG-6039.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pxYhLLB)


Only weirdness was that the shoulders (yellow arrows top fotos) on the new pins were 6mm wide.  Original is 3mm with so the shoulders either required thicker spacers or had to be cut down on the lathe.  I cut them to 3mm. 

If the girder and links are true, the trick to setting up a parallelogram fork is to reduce the end play on the pivot pins to zero without locking it up.  Install pins from the left and install the 4 bronze thrust washers.  Thread the pins into the right link until there is little end play. (a ratchet strap can compress the mainspring if needed)  Install and tighten the left link and check that at least 1 bronze washer on each pin can be turned (i.e., pin is not locked up). Then tighten the nuts on the right link.  Again, check that one of the bronze washers can still be rotated.  If not, loosen the nuts at both ends and unscrew the pin a little from the right link.  Repeat until the play is taken up and nuts on both ends of each pin can be tightened without locking up both bronze washers.  Guzzi manuals state that 0.1mm (0.004") is the maximum permissible slop in bushings or endplay. 

(https://i.ibb.co/sFCwHNX/IMG-6041.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sFCwHNX)   (https://i.ibb.co/BGhJSfw/IMG-6042.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BGhJSfw)    (https://i.ibb.co/pfPxSNs/IMG-6044.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pfPxSNs)    (https://i.ibb.co/WknV2Yb/IMG-6046.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WknV2Yb)    (https://i.ibb.co/cL3XBBw/IMG-6047.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cL3XBBw)


Once endplay is adjusted the left side nuts can be loosened and the damper plate and friction material placed over the ends of the pins.  Thread the wingnut all the way onto its nut.  Hold the 8 little springs with dabs of grease and thread the nut onto the pin.  Tighten both left side pivot pin nuts, then tighten the wingnut against the damper plate.  Repeat for the right side.  Once both sides are complete confirm that at least one thrust washer on each pivot pin can still rotate.

(https://i.ibb.co/9G37kJW/IMG-6048.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9G37kJW)   (https://i.ibb.co/0qyYGFk/IMG-6051.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0qyYGFk)   (https://i.ibb.co/ryFzwBf/IMG-6052.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ryFzwBf)    (https://i.ibb.co/s9T8b9T/IMG-6053.jpg) (https://ibb.co/s9T8b9T)


Adjust damper wingnuts to road conditions and speed.   :bike-037:

My experience is that girder fork bikes handle well.   :afro:  https://youtu.be/Ag6jspgSwos
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: twowings on February 17, 2019, 08:32:04 AM
Simple = elegant  :thumb:

Nice work!  :bow:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Furbo on March 02, 2019, 10:01:30 AM
That is sweet. :thumb:

Spent 20+ yrs in N. Italy. Would see the old timers most summer weekends.  It was very common to see Del VHB square slide carbs grafted on in place of the originals btw.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on March 04, 2019, 11:26:39 PM
That is sweet. :thumb:

Spent 20+ yrs in N. Italy. Would see the old timers most summer weekends.  It was very common to see Del VHB square slide carbs grafted on in place of the originals btw.

Cool!  that's a big reason I decided to get this bike - saw a bunch of funky old Guzzis out and about when visiting Italy.  Thanks for the VHB info - it may get to that.

Latest is to replace the friction material in the parallelogram forks.  3/16" machinable Garolite sheet from McMaster-Carr.

(https://i.ibb.co/938Y8w5/IMG-6117.jpg) (https://ibb.co/938Y8w5)   (https://i.ibb.co/qpBVsGw/IMG-6118.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qpBVsGw)   (https://i.ibb.co/QKpLPCb/IMG-6119.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QKpLPCb)   (https://i.ibb.co/WG0xksN/IMG-6120.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WG0xksN)


Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on May 04, 2019, 12:02:19 PM
Gift from my brother - 6V LED headlight bulb for old Guzzi!  Same as Bosch apparently.  Much brighter and an a slightly irritating green that may be more noticable to distracted drivers.


(https://i.ibb.co/HD6qv99/IMG-6179.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HD6qv99)    (https://i.ibb.co/MMdJw0y/IMG-6180mod.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MMdJw0y)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on May 04, 2019, 08:29:56 PM
Gift from my brother - 6V LED headlight bulb for old Guzzi!  Same as Bosch apparently.  Much brighter and an a slightly irritating green that may be more noticable to distracted drivers.


(https://i.ibb.co/HD6qv99/IMG-6179.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HD6qv99)    (https://i.ibb.co/MMdJw0y/IMG-6180mod.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MMdJw0y)


 :thumb: Vech at Bench Mark Works is selling that bulb now. Looks like a good product for lots of older 6 volt motorcycles.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on May 05, 2019, 12:30:17 AM
Got a box of parts from Italy.   :grin:    (including some coil springs for my buddy's Airone)


(https://i.ibb.co/V9zLXkY/IMG-6210.jpg) (https://ibb.co/V9zLXkY)


The fun and easy part... (normally wouldn't be buying these, but the eyes were ovaled, shoulders worn off, and chrome was polished away)


(https://i.ibb.co/mNNgx1j/IMG-6211.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mNNgx1j)   (https://i.ibb.co/KNgJtgQ/IMG-6213.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KNgJtgQ)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on May 05, 2019, 12:32:12 AM
:thumb: Vech at Bench Mark Works is selling that bulb now. Looks like a good product for lots of older 6 volt motorcycles.

 Good to know!  :thumb:

Bench Mark Works is a good resource for stoff that crosses over between Guzzis and BMWs.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: canuck750 on May 05, 2019, 10:22:59 AM
Got a box of parts from Italy.   :grin:    (including some coil springs for my buddy's Airone)


(https://i.ibb.co/V9zLXkY/IMG-6210.jpg) (https://ibb.co/V9zLXkY)


The fun and easy part... (normally wouldn't be buying these, but the eyes were ovaled, shoulders worn off, and chrome was polished away)


(https://i.ibb.co/mNNgx1j/IMG-6211.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mNNgx1j)   (https://i.ibb.co/KNgJtgQ/IMG-6213.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KNgJtgQ)


The new dampers look fantastic. :thumb:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on May 05, 2019, 02:23:25 PM
The mag rewind really improved the way the bike starts and runs, but sometimes still popped out the carb as the throttle started to lift - especially cold.  This is a classic symptom of too much cut-away in the slide.  I could buy a new slide at $40 or so and guess how much cut-away was needed, OR I could grind what was needed off the bottom for free (Guzzi content  :laugh:) using the old Black and Decker valve grinder.  Take 1 mm off the bottom of the slide and it no longer pops through the carb.   :grin:

(https://i.ibb.co/6w79LtH/IMG-6182.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6w79LtH)



The parts order brought new points and rubbing block for the magneto, and the correct advance spring.  After a month or two of short trips the ignition timing seemed to have slipped so it was time to replace some parts.
Spring was easy:

(https://i.ibb.co/0YR40kf/IMG-6214.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0YR40kf)    (https://i.ibb.co/gTh0hKY/IMG-6215.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gTh0hKY)


Points were a little more work - but all my fault.  Marelli makes it easy (compared to Lucas face cams) - the points plate comes off and do the work on the bench.  Old points copper connector had broken and the cam follower was very badly worn - even the pivot was oval.

(https://i.ibb.co/BnxVJXS/IMG-6361.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BnxVJXS)   (https://i.ibb.co/0DzDtLL/IMG-6363.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0DzDtLL)


All looked good, but when I went to time it the timing was about 90 degrees advanced!  :shocked:

It didn't really make sense unless something had been assembled incorrectly to make up for wear (grasping at straws) or something had slipped.  Flywheel had been put on with an impact gun and seemed tight (timing marks are on the flywheel and primary cover), so problem must be under the timing cover, right?  No, all OK in there...

Then someone posted on the Guzzi singles facebook page about having a flywheel come off and roll down the road while riding!!!  Time to pull the flywheel...  Sure enough, it had slipped and sheared the key! The weird thing is that the flywheel seemed tight as you could use it to turn over the engine, but it would slip when the engine was making peak power in 4th gear - just like a slipping clutch. This makes sense because the flywheel is used to drive the engine sprocket that then drives the clutch gear.

Ended up buying some keystock and filing a new key, cleaning the taper surfaces, then heating the flywheel in hot water. And was more assertive with the impact gun.  Apparently, I was too busy to take good photos...

(https://i.ibb.co/7G7GxNr/IMG-6387.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7G7GxNr)
 

I did however change the oil and make a new "filter" for the sump complete with a magnet to catch debris:

(https://i.ibb.co/CBypcdt/IMG-6398.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CBypcdt)



Bike has been starting and running and idling much better.  Points and plug:

(https://i.ibb.co/TKRPxJP/IMG-6488.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TKRPxJP)   (https://i.ibb.co/GVKnGht/IMG-6512.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GVKnGht)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: smdl on May 05, 2019, 02:45:47 PM
 :thumb:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on May 06, 2019, 09:11:53 PM
Been accumulating the parts (cash) to replace the bad & bent Ercole truck bars on the GTV.  A new bar (100 Euro), required a new throttle (50 Euro) and new levers (120 Euro).  All prices approximate as I've tried to forget...

Decided not to buy the separate choke and advance levers for another 125 Euro each or what ever...  My stubbornness has resulted in one of my sillier shop projects - a clamp.

The levers off the old bar were usable, they just needed a clamp for the new bar.  And what is a clamp, but a square with a hole in it, cut in half and screwed together? 

Spent $5 on some bar stock at the local steel monger.  Cut it to size and chucked it in the lathe - first time using the 4 jaw chuck!

(https://i.ibb.co/GMSjXhX/IMG-6493.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GMSjXhX)   (https://i.ibb.co/XpY2dJ2/IMG-6494.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XpY2dJ2)


Drilled some holes for the pinch bolts.

(https://i.ibb.co/3MDw1zZ/IMG-6495.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3MDw1zZ)


It was looking a bit crude, so fired up the trusty hand mill:

(https://i.ibb.co/qDGJd6W/IMG-6497.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qDGJd6W)



Drilled and tapped some holes for mounting stud and locating pin and cleaned it up a bit more.

(https://i.ibb.co/KGrK8c1/IMG-6508.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KGrK8c1)   (https://i.ibb.co/5nt0yNV/IMG-6514.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5nt0yNV)   (https://i.ibb.co/9c8BzvG/IMG-6516.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9c8BzvG)


Ended up having to turn about about 0.020" off the OD of the decompressor bar end fitting.  This also required drilling a cable hole and lock screw hole in the new bar (drilling through chrome  :sad: ).  Used the lathe a 3rd time in a day to make a cool little cable stop fitting for decompressor cable - but forgot a picture.

(https://i.ibb.co/s546yTh/IMG-6519.jpg) (https://ibb.co/s546yTh)



Then had to assemble the new spiral throttle.  First, there was a LOT of fiddly fitting as the seam in the new bar didn't allow the inner spiral to turn and the milling of the slot had splayed the bar end slightly so the throttle grip wouldn't slide over.  Once that was taken care of another hole had to be drilled through the new bar for the locating screw.  A spiral throttle has 10 parts - inner & outer sleeves, cable shuttle, guide pin and bushing, cable stop, locating screw, friction spring, chrome end cap and bolt.  Is it any wonder they're not used any more?!

(https://i.ibb.co/ncspgC6/IMG-6522.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ncspgC6)   (https://i.ibb.co/RhTWkPq/IMG-6526.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RhTWkPq)



The new bars are straighter, narrower, lower and don't pull back as far so they don't drive like a truck.  They look better and the mirrors are more useful.  The bike fits me better.  This has been a very positive improvement!

(https://i.ibb.co/F57P03M/IMG-6527.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F57P03M)   (https://i.ibb.co/VNSN6Md/IMG-6530.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VNSN6Md)



Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: canuck750 on May 06, 2019, 09:41:21 PM
Your skills are very impressive  :bow: :bow: :bow:

great information as always
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Dave Swanson on May 07, 2019, 02:17:40 PM
Dream bike!!  Great job!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on December 08, 2019, 08:11:51 PM
Been a while since I posted - been riding and wrenching so their's more to report.

Most useful thing is probably Patrick Hayes translation of the original 1949 GTV shop manual.  I updated it with photos and diagrams and added something on magnetos and a couple pages on parallelogram forks.  The construction of Falcones and Airones is so similar to the GTV that owners of the those bikes will also find it useful.  Greg Bender is now hosing it on his site:

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_manuals/workshop_manual_gtv_en.pdf (http://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_manuals/workshop_manual_gtv_en.pdf)


(https://i.ibb.co/hfKc1Ky/GTVpage.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hfKc1Ky)


If there is one thing I could have known going into this engine it is that the aluminum is not low expansion and that the bearings must be securely staked into the cases.  Any problems with loose bearings are exacerbated by the fact that the clutch spring tries to pull the clutch bearing out of the case and pulling the clutch lever tries to pull the drive side bearing out of the case.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on December 08, 2019, 08:43:08 PM
In June the factory sent the info that my bike was built as a GTV Feb. 18, 1937 and that it was originally painted Amaranto - Amaranth.


(https://i.ibb.co/vZGjVZJ/6439-Factorysm.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vZGjVZJ)


Lechler is an Italian paint manufacturer in Como that still makes the color - they have a fantastic range of colors for Italian classic cars and bikes.  Jerry K and Spencer G have done tons of research to match the color.

Jerry came up with this formula for Centari acrylic enamel Gallon Mix size:
758S Drier      178.0
705A Black (HS)   242.6
701 White   307.6
723A Violet   409.4
749A  Maroon (HS)  1639.9
748A Mon Violet  3559.3

Centari was originally a DuPont product but it was sold or rebranded as Axalta which is difficult to find here.  According to an Axalta rep it is not available on the coasts due to the high VOCs so called Finishmaster, an Axalta dealer in Appleton, Wisc. 920-757-6233. Kris answered and I sent her Jerry's mixing formula and she said they can mix it in Centari acrylic enamel.  She said they'd have to match it to other brands, but there was a cross reference to PPG 51167.  Her email address is: morkleek@finishmaster.com.

51167 is the same PPG code Spencer Graves came up with by matching paint Stucchi sent him. 
It apparently crosses over to a GM stripe color:
GM79A       WASL 8663     WA8663
                   Dark Claret      Dark Garnet

Wesco Autobody has a color map book which matches the GM color as page 401 H-3.

I had two pieces (photo) that seemed to have original paint  and compared them to the PPG color map book and the purpler speedo blanking plate is close to 51167, but very slightly lighter and browner - it is closest to page 402 G-4.  The browner fork link is p405 H-3.  A request on the Guzzi single cyl. group was unanimous that the purpler color was the closer match.


(https://i.ibb.co/rcq8fCN/IMG-8029crop.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rcq8fCN)


Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on December 10, 2019, 10:46:25 PM
The front brake on the GTV is absolutely horrible - it does almost nothing even after a reline and arcing the shoes, a new cable and fitting a longer brake arm.  Part of the problem is that it is only about 3/4" wide and about 7" diameter.  Turns out the brake, in fact both wheels, are from an earlier Sport 15 ca. 1930. 

The brakes are bad AND wrong. 

Eventually a guy posted two wheels for sale that were correct - a chance to get correct brakes that worked better.  Problem was they'd been sitting in a barn in New England for several decades and he wanted more than I paid for my car for each wheel!!!   

(https://i.ibb.co/fY9ZHnC/20181217-162049.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fY9ZHnC)   (https://i.ibb.co/cLZnFd0/DSCN2915.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cLZnFd0)

OK, it was a cheap car.

The brakes arrived but the front drum was kinked - it looks like someone used a pry-bar between the drum and the shoe. :shocked: 
The outer edge of the drum was bent out 0.5-1.0mm.  It was bad enough that you could see it just looking at the empty drum.  The actual low spot was only about 50mm long at the outer edge and diminished to 0mm at the back of the drum.  Unfortunately the drum is too thin to true-up on a lathe. 

A friend and I were looking at it and he noticed machining marks that suggested it was turned from steel rather than cast iron.  Steel is not as brittle as cast iron so we decided to try to straighten it by brute force. 
 :boozing:

We chucked it on a brake lathe to find the low point and mark it.

(https://i.ibb.co/fSmCHdG/IMG-8109.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fSmCHdG)


We found a large disk brake rotor with a hub just slightly smaller than the id of the drum and shimmed it closer.

Clamped the disk in a vice and hit the high point of the drum with a suitable drift and 3lb. hammer. 

Re-chuck in lathe to check and repeat hammer and drift until close.  Unfortunately I didn't take a picture of it.

We then hung the drum from the jaws of the vice (resting at the edge of the low spot) and finished the job by whacking and re-checking and repeating as needed.

(https://i.ibb.co/VBKrTK0/IMG-8112.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VBKrTK0)


The worst wobble is now about 0.005" (about 0.13mm) which is about the drum's total run-out so I will ride it and only turn it if there is a problem. 

It is great to have resourceful friends!   :thumb:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on December 16, 2019, 11:40:09 PM
More on the brakes...
Hubs were cut from the rims so I'll need to order spokes - 4 different lengths!

(https://i.ibb.co/hWxCbLq/IMG-7707.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hWxCbLq)   (https://i.ibb.co/C1Vt3Kb/IMG-7714sm.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C1Vt3Kb)   (https://i.ibb.co/WyM82d3/IMG-7717sm.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WyM82d3)   (https://i.ibb.co/CtzKtnX/IMG-7722.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CtzKtnX)
(https://i.ibb.co/VY8XKbg/IMG-7754.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VY8XKbg)   (https://i.ibb.co/4K0LSrV/IMG-7755.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4K0LSrV)
 

Sent the parts to soak in the spa.  A little Krud Kutter followed by a vinegar bath and a Ospho spritz.

(https://i.ibb.co/ScDDP2z/IMG-7729.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ScDDP2z)   (https://i.ibb.co/Htb3V4k/IMG-7731.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Htb3V4k)   (https://i.ibb.co/Vv40YH8/IMG-7761.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Vv40YH8)   (https://i.ibb.co/1MDyYW3/IMG-7762.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1MDyYW3)   (https://i.ibb.co/tpqyKbQ/IMG-7763.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tpqyKbQ)


Bad cracks in the cush drive plate:  Weld?  Braze?

(https://i.ibb.co/WPqJHHm/IMG-7766sm.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WPqJHHm)    (https://i.ibb.co/MPgVVLk/IMG-7767.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MPgVVLk)


Front tapered rollers have an 18mm ID - weird size but I found them in France...  Rear bearings are standard 6204.

(https://i.ibb.co/sFFwHyR/IMG-7712.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sFFwHyR)

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on December 22, 2019, 01:48:50 PM
About a month ago the gas tank started leaking next to a brazed repair at the front of the tank.  The steel had rusted next to the brass, the paint bubbled and there was a little trickle of gas.  I JBWelded a similar hole last year so the tank needs to be stripped and repaired correctly.  This would be a good time to repair the chain gaurd too because it also needs welding...

(https://i.ibb.co/b3TQgrm/IMG-8082.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b3TQgrm)   (https://i.ibb.co/svKWQVv/IMG-8083.jpg) (https://ibb.co/svKWQVv)    (https://i.ibb.co/QJh5dqn/IMG-8091.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QJh5dqn)    (https://i.ibb.co/WtWM2gc/IMG-8094.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WtWM2gc)


So the tank will need new paint...

I could spray paint it with rattle cans, but that would look bad.

And both fenders need welding too, so it would be a good time to fix them.  Then they would need paint...

And the new brakes need paint too....

And this would be the perfect time to replace the brazed up fork I've been riding on - and the replacement needs paint...

So that leaves the frame.  But the engine has to come out of the frame again because I accidentally ran it with the oil shut off. :embarrassed:  Patrick says they can run 50 miles on splash but I need to check it.  This would be the time to repaint the frame...

And it's all painted the wrong color anyway - it should be dark Amaranth.

It took me about a week to decide to tear it down. :tongue:

Somehow I've convinced myself to rebuild the brakes and build wheels for them, rebuild the fork, repair the fenders and tank, rebuild the engine, and have it painted all at the same time!   :shocked:

How does this happen? 


(https://i.ibb.co/4pwSYQd/IMG-8053.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4pwSYQd) (https://i.ibb.co/wMpjyFh/IMG-8060.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wMpjyFh) (https://i.ibb.co/FBBLZy9/IMG-8062.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FBBLZy9) (https://i.ibb.co/ZKJMS01/IMG-8070.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZKJMS01) (https://i.ibb.co/HLyXwJ0/IMG-8072.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HLyXwJ0) (https://i.ibb.co/CV9YJ7d/IMG-8105.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CV9YJ7d) (https://i.ibb.co/S0nkQjx/IMG-8181.jpg) (https://ibb.co/S0nkQjx) (https://i.ibb.co/sjxBmCb/IMG-8187.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sjxBmCb) (https://i.ibb.co/dDBNBfx/IMG-8190.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dDBNBfx) (https://i.ibb.co/vzT5fqf/IMG-8202.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vzT5fqf) (https://i.ibb.co/K2sJWtM/IMG-8203.jpg) (https://ibb.co/K2sJWtM) (https://i.ibb.co/qJjSxnN/IMG-8204.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qJjSxnN) (https://i.ibb.co/f1yXjck/IMG-8206sm.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f1yXjck) (https://i.ibb.co/Fn1gJCb/IMG-8211.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Fn1gJCb) (https://i.ibb.co/PxnJ4rn/IMG-8212.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PxnJ4rn) (https://i.ibb.co/YXPhrQ0/IMG-8218.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YXPhrQ0)


Man there are a lot of parts - Hope I remember how to put it together!   
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: smdl on December 22, 2019, 03:29:37 PM
You've got this, and it's gonna be great!

How does this happen?  Wrong guy to ask, for sure, as it's happened to me many times!  😑

Interesting about running the engine with the oil off.  I was thinking about just such a possibility, recently, while watching a video of a guy going through the startup sequence on a Galetto.  I'm afraid that I might do just the save thing!

Cheers,
Shaun

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on December 22, 2019, 10:16:07 PM
If someone had told me this was part of a motorcycle I wouldn't have believed them!

(https://i.ibb.co/sqdNMD8/IMG-8221.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sqdNMD8)


a "video" of the tear-down   :laugh:
https://youtu.be/GvpXYVyKEp8 (https://youtu.be/GvpXYVyKEp8)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: jas67 on December 23, 2019, 08:36:11 PM
If someone had told me this was part of a motorcycle I wouldn't have believed them!

(https://i.ibb.co/sqdNMD8/IMG-8221.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sqdNMD8)


a "video" of the tear-down   :laugh:
https://youtu.be/GvpXYVyKEp8 (https://youtu.be/GvpXYVyKEp8)

Looks like something off a tractor.... oh wait, this is a  Guzzi, thus, it IS a tractor.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on December 23, 2019, 11:31:33 PM
 :grin:

(https://i.ibb.co/6vSfHKs/3-wheel-motorcycle-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6vSfHKs)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Rick4003 on December 24, 2019, 07:10:35 AM
Nice one! I did something similar to my first bike, just had to change the tires... Ended up taking the whole thing apart and got the frame painted and all kinds of other things. :grin:

Can't wait to see the new paint, and the repairs on the way there
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on December 24, 2019, 12:22:47 PM
 :grin:  Thanks Rick and SMDL.  I've gotten a ton of support from people on this site - and on the Guzzi singles (cylinder!) site:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/guzzi-singles (https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/guzzi-singles)

I don't want to restore it because it will get ridden and rained on and dirty and scratched and dinged.  And repairing the gas tank for chrome is nearly impossible.  I'd really like for some magic way to put 10 year old paint on it and go ride it... 

Worst part is probably the fenders and chain guard - they are cracked and bent and poorly repaired in several places.  It will require making and welding in (by an expert) patch panels... 

Trick is to get all the old paint off.  I used to use paint stripper (aircraft remover) but since methylene chloride has been removed it doesn't work.  (good riddance - methylene chloride is a known carcinogen and neurotoxin.  It's toxic effects have killed people on the job!) 

So I made a hot tank from the bottom of an old water heater and just added a couple pounds of lye.  Most of the paint (and grease) comes off with a hose.  A wire brush for the tough stuff and then chase it with a scotchbrite and ospho to protect from rust:

(https://i.ibb.co/TbWWG1b/IMG-8144s.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TbWWG1b)    (https://i.ibb.co/M1tjRTd/IMG-8154s.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M1tjRTd)    (https://i.ibb.co/kGnQhRp/IMG-8176.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kGnQhRp)    (https://i.ibb.co/Qm36BC0/IMG-8213.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Qm36BC0) (https://i.ibb.co/r69ypwW/IMG-8216.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r69ypwW)


Even found some of the original amaranth paint:

(https://i.ibb.co/LgTHzhg/IMG-8230.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LgTHzhg)


Some need welding, sandblasting, rebushing, chroming, painting and parkerizing.  What a lot of parts!

(https://i.ibb.co/SxnQKZm/IMG-8232.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SxnQKZm)



Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on December 30, 2019, 11:22:49 PM
Don't want to scratch paint so fitting the new chain guard on the bench...

(https://i.ibb.co/JvjSpy6/IMG-8280.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JvjSpy6)


Starting on the body work by making a pattern to fit the inside of the rear fender.  Got it pretty straight but the old hinge was a weird mismatch of welded crap.

(https://i.ibb.co/Kq2ynpD/Rear-Fender-Hinges.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Kq2ynpD)   (https://i.ibb.co/JKk3FWW/IMG-8287.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JKk3FWW)


Edit to show the result:

(https://i.ibb.co/y0hGsB3/IMG-8297.jpg) (https://ibb.co/y0hGsB3)   (https://i.ibb.co/7r4mL4L/IMG-8299.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7r4mL4L)    (https://i.ibb.co/K9gzr7j/IMG-8302.jpg) (https://ibb.co/K9gzr7j)    (https://i.ibb.co/7yMw7cL/IMG-8307.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7yMw7cL)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on January 20, 2020, 01:46:12 PM
More rear fender repair...

Template for making sure the cross profile is consistent:

(https://i.ibb.co/3kc2dSR/IMG-8299.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3kc2dSR)


Loose rivets, crappy repair and then loose bolts resulted in...

(https://i.ibb.co/MCg9Fqv/IMG-8313.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MCg9Fqv)  (https://i.ibb.co/19jsBmz/IMG-8314.jpg) (https://ibb.co/19jsBmz)


Made a doubler and decided to glue it in with JBWeld because I was pretty sure my brazing skills were not up to it. 

(https://i.ibb.co/W3M5rcp/IMG-8316.jpg) (https://ibb.co/W3M5rcp)   (https://i.ibb.co/x5fmxCF/IMG-8318.jpg) (https://ibb.co/x5fmxCF)   (https://i.ibb.co/p0j0prM/IMG-8330.jpg) (https://ibb.co/p0j0prM)


The hinged fender tail also needed repairs.  The original riveted license bracket had been welded to the fender.  When the bike was repainted the remains of the weld were hammered below the fender profile tearing the sheet metal.  The damage was puttied over and a new, incorrect bracket bolted over the top.  Decided to braze the doubler for this one after a little practice.  Don't know why I didn't take a photo - probably because it's not pretty.

(https://i.ibb.co/PcyznPr/IMG-8284.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PcyznPr)


The fender tail also needed a misplaced hole welded closed (which I did after practicing with a borrowed mig welder) and a new fender stay made.  It had an asymmetric stay of flat stock that warped the tail out of alignment and interfered with the chain guard. 

The trick would be turning flat stock (McMaster-Carr 2mmx20mm) into 1/6 round stock (approx) with the tools at hand.   Got some angle, found an old wrist pin (grind the ends so it doesn't dimple the steel as much) and a borrowed press. 

(https://i.ibb.co/gww7GFb/IMG-8368.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gww7GFb)  (https://i.ibb.co/hHctNVP/IMG-8378.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hHctNVP)  (https://i.ibb.co/GHsmL2X/IMG-8369.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GHsmL2X)  (https://i.ibb.co/7Vb4xcn/IMG-8382.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7Vb4xcn)


<edit - Anneal the steel before pressing.  This one cracked about 3cm.  I had thought it was just the surface, but later found it cracked all the way through.  A little tack welding fixes it.>

Results turned out pretty good.

 (https://i.ibb.co/7Ysrh7d/IMG-8387.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7Ysrh7d)  (https://i.ibb.co/vHW19jR/IMG-8389.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vHW19jR)   (https://i.ibb.co/r50bshS/IMG-8390.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r50bshS)   (https://i.ibb.co/2hyjqLZ/IMG-8394.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2hyjqLZ)


Front fender is worse!


Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on January 20, 2020, 03:50:35 PM
 :thumb: :thumb:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: canuck750 on January 20, 2020, 08:29:56 PM
WOW, you sir are a craftsman  :bow: :bow: :bow:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on January 26, 2020, 12:18:44 AM
The GTV had been high centered a couple times which dented the spring tubes against the springs.  This meant that the springs had to be driven out of the tubes with a looong drift.  An exhaust pipe expander (Harbor Freight!) and a little light tapping with a body hammer to massaged out the worst of the dents. 
Springs drop right in and out now.  :smiley:



(https://i.ibb.co/dkrqJsL/IMG-8512.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dkrqJsL)   (https://i.ibb.co/4jf8wz5/IMG-8514.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4jf8wz5)    (https://i.ibb.co/kx8bVZt/IMG-8515.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kx8bVZt)
 
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on January 26, 2020, 10:38:33 PM
The front fender was a mess.  There was a big dent where the fender hit the sidecar lug on the frame (wrong fork spring). The riveted fork bracket had been torn from the fender and bar stock welded on to replace it.  Probably with a stick welder.  It was stress cracked and rewelded where it necks down for the fork.  There was another rewelded stress crack on one side above the rear stay which had been replaced with bar stock.  Because the fender was so distorted one side of the replacement stay was 3/4" longer than the other.  And there was a bite out of the flare at the trailing edge - how did that happen???  :shocked:  The flare itself was noticeably asymmetric.

(https://i.ibb.co/vzsgwXK/IMG-8074.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vzsgwXK)   (https://i.ibb.co/fXXKYph/IMG-8075.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fXXKYph)    (https://i.ibb.co/bdxb4Ts/IMG-8076.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bdxb4Ts)    (https://i.ibb.co/vvDhCv8/IMG-8079.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vvDhCv8)    (https://i.ibb.co/FmsGxMp/IMG-8321.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FmsGxMp)   (https://i.ibb.co/1Q9KYHc/IMG-8351.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1Q9KYHc)


Hammered out the dent first. The fork bracket mess had to be next because its location would determine the length of the rear fender stay.  I cut off the bracket with a hacksaw, hand file and die grinder and was left with 4 rivet holes, a tear and a lot of wrinkled steel.  After getting the steel as straight as possible (for me) decided to braze in a doubler then fill the surface wrinkles with JBWeld and rivet through that using the original rivet holes. 

(https://i.ibb.co/yq8Vw7W/IMG-8323.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yq8Vw7W)   (https://i.ibb.co/WfptpcC/IMG-8324.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WfptpcC)   (https://i.ibb.co/WpGfZMC/IMG-8335.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WpGfZMC)   (https://i.ibb.co/bXm1P0C/IMG-8337.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bXm1P0C) (https://i.ibb.co/9pJt4Vn/IMG-8344.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9pJt4Vn)   (https://i.ibb.co/744RtMK/IMG-8349.jpg) (https://ibb.co/744RtMK)


The bracket steel is 2x20mm stock from McMaster-Carr.  The trick was to get the height right so the fender didn't sag over the wheel. There's probably a smarter way to do this, but I decided to bolt the fender in the fork and install the wheel to get the contour right.  To get it up to working level I clamped it in the vice!   :boozing:   Only screw-up is that I'd mistakenly used too many flat head rivets on the rear fender so had to use domed rivets.  Rivet counters take note!  :grin:

(https://i.ibb.co/qxwQ7Hg/IMG-8354.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qxwQ7Hg)   (https://i.ibb.co/5Y0SmQz/IMG-8360.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5Y0SmQz)   (https://i.ibb.co/N7HJRBX/IMG-8362.jpg) (https://ibb.co/N7HJRBX)   (https://i.ibb.co/BzPd3Bc/IMG-8363.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BzPd3Bc)  (https://i.ibb.co/7C0D1XC/IMG-8366.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7C0D1XC)


With the front stay and the fork bracket I could start to make sense of the rest of the fender.  It had been pulled back violently on the left side and the cracks welded up with no regard for true radius.  It had then been splayed to fit the fender stay so, hoping that restoring the width and cross-section would also bring it back to true, I cut internal and external wood patterns to get the width approx right (pic is rear fender with cardboard pattern).  The work revealed the stress crack repair at the fork had changed the radius on the fender on the left.  The only solution was to rebend the steel where it necks down to pass through the fork.  I heated the whole area red hot and was able to get to within 1/4" of the other side. There is a pucker in the fender line at the fork, but not very visible standing beside it so will probably leave it. 

(https://i.ibb.co/k2Jz43w/IMG-8299.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k2Jz43w)   (https://i.ibb.co/xLWPKLn/IMG-8489.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xLWPKLn)   (https://i.ibb.co/3Bj72z8/IMG-8490.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3Bj72z8)    (https://i.ibb.co/m4g7NBS/IMG-8499.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m4g7NBS)
   

The steel had cracked when I made the rear stay so I annealed the bar stock before pressing the contour.  Then messed around with the fender radius (above) to get the stay length right so that it would not be under tension when bolted up and it was symmetric side to side and centered over the wheel.

(https://i.ibb.co/qJgG6XN/IMG-8487.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qJgG6XN)   (https://i.ibb.co/k0XhM4z/IMG-8488.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k0XhM4z)   (https://i.ibb.co/BVXtYHN/IMG-8495.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BVXtYHN)


With the rest of the fender anchored and (relatively) true the fender flare could be tackled.  First was to get it as symmetric as possible with wood patterns then determine the radius of the flare to make a hammer form.  The first radius was too small so made a larger one.
(https://i.ibb.co/hVjpTGP/IMG-8503.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hVjpTGP) (https://i.ibb.co/3WPrwMw/IMG-8505.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3WPrwMw) (https://i.ibb.co/r0H5Q28/IMG-8518.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r0H5Q28)  (https://i.ibb.co/QrkBBKS/IMG-8521.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QrkBBKS) (https://i.ibb.co/6Ht1Zww/IMG-8524.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6Ht1Zww) (https://i.ibb.co/Z6GFCNN/IMG-8526.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Z6GFCNN)


Larger radius - borrowed English (chinese) wheel to get flare, then heat with borrowed torch to get compound curve, then cut out original Mandello steel (Yikes!) and fit patch.
(https://i.ibb.co/kcHphMH/IMG-8531.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kcHphMH) (https://i.ibb.co/LRBNLbq/IMG-8532.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LRBNLbq) (https://i.ibb.co/6DPSqhQ/IMG-8533.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6DPSqhQ) (https://i.ibb.co/SwT0JWk/IMG-8535.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SwT0JWk) (https://i.ibb.co/p4VVxpb/IMG-8534.jpg) (https://ibb.co/p4VVxpb) (https://i.ibb.co/xhMkVqn/IMG-8540.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xhMkVqn)


Welded in place with borrowed MIG welder. (there's a pattern here...  :tongue:)  Lots of grinder action and hammer and dolly to get it presentable - then check with wheel.  Finally riveted and glued (with JBWeld) the rear stay.

(https://i.ibb.co/rwMXjcy/IMG-8544.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rwMXjcy)   (https://i.ibb.co/9pXHZ00/IMG-8545.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9pXHZ00)   (https://i.ibb.co/hH7VWyM/IMG-8546.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hH7VWyM)   (https://i.ibb.co/QN2fYxz/IMG-8548.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QN2fYxz)   (https://i.ibb.co/2tBJQk3/IMG-8552.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2tBJQk3)   (https://i.ibb.co/BrPQktq/IMG-8555.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BrPQktq)


I'm happy with it because I learned a lot and it looks way better than expected.   :afro: 
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on February 02, 2020, 12:53:46 AM
Foot rests didn't match.  Both looked like they had been bent and re-bent - primary side (right in pictures) more than once! Better after a little rebending:

(https://i.ibb.co/9Z6Htxb/IMG-8561.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9Z6Htxb)    (https://i.ibb.co/R3pNryF/IMG-8562.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R3pNryF)


The left peg is the pivot for the brake pedal and was so worn that welding up the worn bearing surface of the peg was one of the first things I did back in 2017.  There wasn't much I could do with the worn pedal bearing which was ovalized.

(https://i.ibb.co/hV44KdK/IMG-1280.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hV44KdK)   (https://i.ibb.co/r5DfLXj/IMG-1270.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r5DfLXj)    (https://i.ibb.co/PFQWzjy/IMG-8574.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PFQWzjy)   (https://i.ibb.co/SxmZY6s/IMG-8575.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SxmZY6s)


Now's the time to make a new brake pedal bearing - 1" sch 80 black iron pipe cut to size and brazed in like the original. 

(https://i.ibb.co/Xk3tWyj/IMG-8569.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Xk3tWyj)    (https://i.ibb.co/7tsHLB8/IMG-8573.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7tsHLB8)    (https://i.ibb.co/5cPsT91/IMG-8577.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5cPsT91)    (https://i.ibb.co/9Z6Q5Fb/IMG-8580.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9Z6Q5Fb)    (https://i.ibb.co/xmVD7zX/IMG-8590.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xmVD7zX)
 

So much less play!  Can't wait to try it for real!

(https://i.ibb.co/w0XDrKh/IMG-8582.jpg) (https://ibb.co/w0XDrKh)    (https://i.ibb.co/Ws6RS6r/IMG-8584.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Ws6RS6r)

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on February 05, 2020, 10:05:18 PM
There's also lots of silly jobs to do before taking parts to the painter.  Drive out bearing races.  Straighten steering stop on front triangle. Drill and tap worn center stand pivot bolts. Weld up worn stand stops on main frame and stand.  Clean up old welds. All parts pickled with Ospho (phosphoric acid treatment) and wiped down.

(https://i.ibb.co/Dfq0Rc3/IMG-8246.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Dfq0Rc3)   (https://i.ibb.co/Qc1SvTs/IMG-8248.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Qc1SvTs)    (https://i.ibb.co/HPWn2JN/IMG-8396.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HPWn2JN)    (https://i.ibb.co/YDDHtnX/IMG-8400.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YDDHtnX)    (https://i.ibb.co/tHvmrC1/IMG-8408.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tHvmrC1)


Chose paint matched to the inside of the speedo blanking plate and loaded the first 1/2 of the parts into the car.  The box of paint (arrow) was Holy Cr*p! expen$ive.  1st bunch of parts in paint booth.

(https://i.ibb.co/JCsRwrg/IMG-8339.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JCsRwrg)    (https://i.ibb.co/xj4J2MD/IMG-8411mod.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xj4J2MD)    (https://i.ibb.co/sy3MKkF/IMG-8413.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sy3MKkF)
 
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on February 22, 2020, 09:11:15 PM
Parts came back a couple days ago.  Wow! 

(https://i.ibb.co/RQRp5XC/IMG-8688.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RQRp5XC)   (https://i.ibb.co/jTJcLh1/IMG-8672.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jTJcLh1)


Next batch....
(https://i.ibb.co/17yp3Nm/IMG-8684.jpg) (https://ibb.co/17yp3Nm)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Rick4003 on February 24, 2020, 02:04:30 AM
Looks great! All the little jobs always take a lot longer than you would expect them to!

Love the color! Can't wait to see it finished and the video of it running! :)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on February 28, 2020, 11:26:36 PM
Thanks Rick!  Maybe by fall...?

Here's another silly job that will be a great improvement...

One of the first jobs I'd done was to try to eliminate some of the slop in the shifter pivot by tuning the pin and installing a brass shim but it wasn't enough.  The rocker pivot was ovalized from wear so needed to be reamed.  I used one of the collection of old reamers I'd bought on ebay and it worked OK after some cleaning.  The gap was made up by installing bronze bushings and turning them to fit. The shifter pivot is now a precision fit! 

(https://i.ibb.co/S6K1PnB/IMG-0623.jpg) (https://ibb.co/S6K1PnB)   (https://i.ibb.co/Yy8xmkm/IMG-8328.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Yy8xmkm)   (https://i.ibb.co/BGvMCzy/IMG-8697.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BGvMCzy)    (https://i.ibb.co/ysZHDrG/IMG-8702.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ysZHDrG)  (https://i.ibb.co/Tmtr9T5/IMG-8704.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Tmtr9T5)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on March 19, 2020, 11:17:13 PM
This bike has a newer engine in an 1937 frame.  The factory gave the frame date, but not the original engine number.  The engine number was a mystery until the chrome was stripped and the original number revealed.  (why didn't they use the flywheel from the newer engine?)

(https://i.ibb.co/345JTKN/IMG-8635.jpg) (https://ibb.co/345JTKN)


The timing mark would have been polished away by rechroming:

(https://i.ibb.co/W5bqJx1/IMG-8633.jpg) (https://ibb.co/W5bqJx1)
 

Tracing the arrow and digits on a photo resulted in digital images that I took to the local engraver and he did a great job!  Now it can be rechromed and the old engine number will stay with the frame.
(https://i.ibb.co/sJP6Jyc/Flywheel-Arrow.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sJP6Jyc)    (https://i.ibb.co/R3CR4FN/Flywheel-Number1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R3CR4FN)    (https://i.ibb.co/7gSc3V9/IMG-8807.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7gSc3V9)   (https://i.ibb.co/XzLjB4y/IMG-8809.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XzLjB4y)
 
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: blackcat on March 26, 2020, 09:51:24 AM
Wow, quite the project.  Looks like it is slowly coming together, great work!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on March 29, 2020, 11:45:31 PM
Wow, quite the project.  Looks like it is slowly coming together, great work!

Thanks Blackcat.  I'm not normally this patient and meticulous so maybe I'm maturing.  Or trying to fix my mistakes.   :grin:

Many of the parts that were chromed on the later bikes were black oxide coated on the great depression bikes.  Ariels were similar.  The pictures of this original 1937 GTS show parts that are not chrome, black paint or zinc - they are black/brown:

(https://i.ibb.co/2dSSRS1/1937-GTSRside.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2dSSRS1)   (https://i.ibb.co/jyH7B3R/1937-GTSRhandlebar.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jyH7B3R)


The traditional black-oxide is applied in a vat of caustic manganese phosphate solution heated to well above boiling (so says the interweb).   Many small production shops have switched to a room temperature black oxide process that uses an acidic copper solution.  (it requires less energy and doesn't have the heavy metal disposal problems of the traditional method.)  Caswell sells small quantities of this solution.
While the coating is rust resistant it must be coated with something to seal it from the elements.  Traditionally linseed oil was used so I used the same. Here are the results:

(https://i.ibb.co/m0ZmrM8/IMG-8759.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m0ZmrM8)   (https://i.ibb.co/SPMsPCH/IMG-8764.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SPMsPCH)    (https://i.ibb.co/vXwGZhv/IMG-8920.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vXwGZhv)    (https://i.ibb.co/JrtMRVQ/IMG-8922.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JrtMRVQ)    (https://i.ibb.co/qFS4XXT/IMG-8924.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qFS4XXT)
 

Large parts were painted with DP-90 black epoxy primer (instead of using the Caswell) then coated with linseed oil.  It's a good match!  The 3 pieces at the top of the 2nd pic are epoxy primer.

I'd thought that Parkerizing was a trade name for the traditional hot caustic black oxide method, but it turns out that it is different chemically - instead it is an acidic solution heated to about 180F.   So there are 3 choices for black oxide - Parkerizing, Caswell (and others) room temp black oxide and the traditional hot caustic black oxide.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: blackcat on March 31, 2020, 12:16:46 PM
Nice finish, those finishes are not cheap but I guess there is no other option. I need to have four bolts coated black, guess I'll just buy a can of VHT black oxide finish for $10 bucks and re-coat as needed.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Rick4003 on April 21, 2020, 05:19:33 AM
That black oxide finish can also be done using cold blue, I just bought a small bottle from the local hunting shop. It is used extensively on firearms. So you should have plenty of access to it in the US. Unless everybody is preparing their guns for shooting Corona :grin:

The bottle I bought is made by Birchwood Casey and is called Super blue. I paid 125dkr which is around 18Usd. I'm guessing it is much cheaper in the US. So not that expensive. I have yet to try it out, but I have a few bolts for an old drill press that needs to be treated, so I can return with the results when I'm done :)

-Ulrik
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on April 21, 2020, 09:24:10 AM
Nice finish, those finishes are not cheap but I guess there is no other option. I need to have four bolts coated black, guess I'll just buy a can of VHT black oxide finish for $10 bucks and re-coat as needed.

You can buy this product at most model train stores:
http://www.swannysmodels.com/Blackenit.html

Not sure how well it holds up outdoors, may need to be cleared over to prevent rust.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on May 06, 2020, 10:43:56 PM
Got more parts back from the painter:

(https://i.ibb.co/WVzGyc2/IMG-9012.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WVzGyc2)  (https://i.ibb.co/4VycxZg/IMG-9014.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4VycxZg)   (https://i.ibb.co/7b19Wkv/IMG-9018.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7b19Wkv)


He did a great job of making iffy steel look very good without sculpting it out of plastic!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on May 11, 2020, 02:12:29 PM
Had hoped to have the engine back together by now, but still waiting on parts.  Planned to have the wheels built too, but rims had rusty chrome so dithered.  Finally sprung for new rims so now waiting on them...
  :clock:   That leaves the bicycle frame...


Main frame and stand:

(https://i.ibb.co/nDjV64K/IMG-9089crop.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nDjV64K)


Spring tubes and swingarm buffers:

(https://i.ibb.co/n68M7LN/IMG-9093.jpg) (https://ibb.co/n68M7LN)


Swing arm and spring rods:  (fortunately the swingarm bushings in the frame were not quite worn out - about the only thing on this bike!)

(https://i.ibb.co/3mnkdPJ/IMG-9096.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3mnkdPJ)   (https://i.ibb.co/nbqc3fj/IMG-9097.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nbqc3fj)


Spring pack:  That's about 5 feet of springs for 3 inches travel!   :grin:

(https://i.ibb.co/3rvmzMQ/IMG-9102.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3rvmzMQ)   (https://i.ibb.co/tXPkWRm/IMG-9103.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tXPkWRm)


People always complain there's not enough grease  :evil:  A little adjustment and the swingarm is installed!

(https://i.ibb.co/pXttbLz/IMG-9104.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pXttbLz)   (https://i.ibb.co/Gv7XjcF/IMG-9105.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Gv7XjcF)   (https://i.ibb.co/XjLcRQJ/IMG-9107.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XjLcRQJ)   (https://i.ibb.co/T0w7Djn/IMG-9108.jpg) (https://ibb.co/T0w7Djn)

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Canuck750 on May 12, 2020, 10:13:37 AM
The bacon slicer rear suspension is brilliant, especialy for its time. I am really looking forward to seeing the frame back together with the lovely new paint!

I freshened up the scissor damper mechanism on my 58' Cardellino yesterday, Guzzi specified some great engineering, the little star shaped springs that compress the lock washers into the slotted nuts is very clever.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on May 12, 2020, 11:13:18 AM
Agreed, the Bacon slicer is a crazy combination of really innovative and really old school.  And the combination of the swingarm and sprung saddle is really comfortable.  Rear suspension is no lightweight tho! 

Went to fit the rear braces and found that both needed repairs surfaced so the fasteners would seat - don't know why it looks worse now.  Also found that the right side brace was still about 1/4 low.  So some paint was scratched. :undecided:  But everything looks square now.

Amazed how much my perception of what is good enough has changed!  Anyway, finally got them well fitted, but not permanently installed as I'm still waiting on the correct fasteners.  Dampers are just for show - and to check alignment.  They have the same star-spring, lock-washer combo as the Cardellino.

(https://i.ibb.co/S04RHjH/IMG-9130.jpg) (https://ibb.co/S04RHjH)   (https://i.ibb.co/ckfY6vg/IMG-9131.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ckfY6vg)


 
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on May 15, 2020, 05:43:40 PM
Spent a couple days putting the parallelogramo together.

Frame front triangle is held on by 2 pins -  flex makes it comfortable!   :evil:   
(https://i.ibb.co/10b6svy/IMG-9132.jpg) (https://ibb.co/10b6svy)


Installed the head stock bearings.  Make sure the steering damper works.
(https://i.ibb.co/QdhpjjC/IMG-9204.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QdhpjjC)


Install the spring in the girder, then slip it into the steering head, then install the upper link from the left with your 3rd hand.  With your 4th you can hold the spring away from the steering head so as not to scratch the paint.   :wink:
(https://i.ibb.co/rZRgvP1/IMG-9205.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rZRgvP1)


Cam lock or ratchet straps can be used to compress the spring enough insert the lower link from the left.  Removing the straps will allow the fork to hang down until the spring rests the steering head and scratches the paint.  The best solution is to leave the straps in place or loop wire between the upper and lower pins to keep the spring compressed.

(https://i.ibb.co/2qpFYT7/IMG-9209.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2qpFYT7)


Adjust the end play in the pins, then tighten the friction dampers.

(https://i.ibb.co/CMxNdzD/IMG-9221.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CMxNdzD)
 

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on June 03, 2020, 11:01:11 PM
The gas tank is corroded paper thin so it the panels are painted rather than chrome. 


(https://i.ibb.co/S7BNQyk/IMG-9214.jpg) (https://ibb.co/S7BNQyk)    (https://i.ibb.co/J32xSWM/IMG-9233.jpg) (https://ibb.co/J32xSWM)


And pinstriping to set it off based on an unrestored original.

(https://i.ibb.co/2NP414t/IMG-9304.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2NP414t)   (https://i.ibb.co/R203gJH/IMG-9305.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R203gJH)   (https://i.ibb.co/Fhpyf0T/IMG-9307.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Fhpyf0T)    (https://i.ibb.co/fCky2WM/1937-GTSLtank.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fCky2WM)   (https://i.ibb.co/qjsPHxV/1937-GTSRside.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qjsPHxV)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on June 06, 2020, 11:37:48 PM
Rebuilding the wheels should have been the first job, but I didn't have any of the right parts so stalled.   

Wrong brakes (1931 3spd) and right brakes 1934-41 GTV.

(https://i.ibb.co/HC1DZDh/IMG-5543.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HC1DZDh)    (https://i.ibb.co/nn3cB51/IMG-5544.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nn3cB51)    (https://i.ibb.co/mhCKmSx/20181217-162017.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mhCKmSx)    (https://i.ibb.co/1TTFDfW/DSCN2918.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1TTFDfW)


Seller cut the hubs out of the rims and sent the brakes.  Strip, straighten, chrome, paint, new bearings, cut seals, turn axel spacers, reline shoes...

(https://i.ibb.co/zFVyh8v/IMG-9361.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zFVyh8v)   (https://i.ibb.co/wyytpYQ/IMG-9364.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wyytpYQ)   (https://i.ibb.co/X46gJTH/IMG-9327.jpg) (https://ibb.co/X46gJTH)    (https://i.ibb.co/HN5K2tK/IMG-9331.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HN5K2tK)

(https://i.ibb.co/DtHvq2d/IMG-9263.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DtHvq2d)   (https://i.ibb.co/bB3m5Z4/IMG-9366.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bB3m5Z4)


Rims were rusty toast so eventually decided on new. 

(https://i.ibb.co/JRPprfh/IMG-9244.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JRPprfh)


Lacing and truing the wheels. Spoke lengths from seller and parts book did not match so wheels had to be laced in the frame to determine spoke lengths.  Some spacers were missing so that was another unknown. Front was relatively easy.

(https://i.ibb.co/2SxxtJg/IMG-9111.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2SxxtJg)  (https://i.ibb.co/pJdwXy0/IMG-9332.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pJdwXy0)   (https://i.ibb.co/ZGgBDZb/IMG-9341.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZGgBDZb)    (https://i.ibb.co/SnpgJMS/IMG-9343.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SnpgJMS)


Rear didn't want to lace evenly or center in frame so laced and unlaced it about half a dozen times   :tongue:  Eventually was able to true it on the centerline.

(https://i.ibb.co/qJN330V/IMG-9252.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qJN330V) (https://i.ibb.co/mbz0GmQ/IMG-9254.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mbz0GmQ) (https://i.ibb.co/23LDP4k/IMG-9310.jpg) (https://ibb.co/23LDP4k) (https://i.ibb.co/nfp0V24/IMG-9346.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nfp0V24) (https://i.ibb.co/KLt11x6/IMG-9348.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KLt11x6) (https://i.ibb.co/6WDBCDf/IMG-9350.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6WDBCDf) (https://i.ibb.co/7ScG5rN/IMG-9352.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7ScG5rN) (https://i.ibb.co/5R1NxHq/IMG-9353.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5R1NxHq)
 

Then took them all apart to have the center stripe painted...
:popcorn:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on June 19, 2020, 11:04:35 AM
This time for real...

(https://i.ibb.co/Y84jFQj/IMG-9388.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Y84jFQj) (https://i.ibb.co/ZMNcy5v/IMG-9389.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZMNcy5v) (https://i.ibb.co/xMQQkR9/IMG-9391.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xMQQkR9) (https://i.ibb.co/ThCjQcM/IMG-9394.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ThCjQcM)
 (https://i.ibb.co/pzHX65V/IMG-9400.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pzHX65V) (https://i.ibb.co/48f66Hp/IMG-9401.jpg) (https://ibb.co/48f66Hp) (https://i.ibb.co/jfpZtCn/IMG-9403.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jfpZtCn) (https://i.ibb.co/Rbbc2jb/IMG-9408.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Rbbc2jb)


First time on its wheels since December.  Feels better!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on June 19, 2020, 03:30:49 PM
 :thumb:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Canuck750 on June 19, 2020, 10:57:39 PM
Nice job lacing the rims, wheels look great! The slots in the hub that receive the spokes look odd, never seen anything like that before, I should take a closer look at my Airone to see if a similar hub was used on the smaller bike.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on June 20, 2020, 12:00:11 AM
Nice job lacing the rims, wheels look great! The slots in the hub that receive the spokes look odd, never seen anything like that before, I should take a closer look at my Airone to see if a similar hub was used on the smaller bike.

Thanks for the compliments guys.

Slots are pretty common (the Ariel has them too) on the 1/2 width hubs; otherwise you need to bend the spokes into curlycues on the small side just to lace them.  I've got a ca. 1931 Guzzi front hub with just holes (no slots) and is nearly impossible to lace.

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on June 24, 2020, 08:03:31 PM
The engine was going to be the first job after stripping paint, but the conrod looked sketchy after running it without oil  :embarrassed:  Finding a good rod was an exasperating experience!

(https://i.ibb.co/BfBMx2J/ConRods.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BfBMx2J)

First (middle - click on image to see all 3) took 2 months to arrive - it spent 45-50 days in the NY customs office at the height of the coronavirus outbreak there.  But it was 90 grams too heavy and the Guzzi name was upside down!  Then Canuck750 got a great looking rod (right) in some parts and made me a nice trade.  BUT someone had torqued it down onto oversized bearings and it was sprung.  A local machinist said he could surface the cap/rod joint and line bore the rod, but when I pulled the cap there was grit under it and so not a round bore.  :angry:  Machinist tried again and got it better - barely within tolerance.   :undecided:

Decided to go for it.  And securely stake the bearings into the case while at it!

(https://i.ibb.co/LvvhmrX/IMG-9422.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LvvhmrX) (https://i.ibb.co/Ht1Z2ct/IMG-9439.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Ht1Z2ct) (https://i.ibb.co/0rsnjbW/IMG-9442.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0rsnjbW) (https://i.ibb.co/F0CKDRt/IMG-9443.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F0CKDRt) (https://i.ibb.co/Dr2PdhT/IMG-9488.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Dr2PdhT) (https://i.ibb.co/mXrWBds/IMG-9497.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mXrWBds) (https://i.ibb.co/KGrK0Nz/IMG-9498.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KGrK0Nz)
 
Nice to have the cases back together!

[edit]  Thanks to Canuck750 for the nice connecting rod!   :thumb:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on June 25, 2020, 01:51:06 PM
Primary gears, clutch and generator drive go back together! 

(https://i.ibb.co/Dbqd0N6/IMG-9496.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Dbqd0N6)   (https://i.ibb.co/6FXKYTk/IMG-9505.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6FXKYTk)   (https://i.ibb.co/Kh3kzH7/IMG-9507.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Kh3kzH7)



Disassemble and clean world's smallest oil pump.  The faces of the impeller teeth indicate a rough life.

(https://i.ibb.co/KFGSfRR/IMG-9511.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KFGSfRR)



A quick hone on the cylinder, check ring and skirt gaps.  Pin is nice sliding fit.  Laying out parts for rocker box and pushrod tube.  This is getting good now!

(https://i.ibb.co/gDF9nqn/IMG-9517.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gDF9nqn)    (https://i.ibb.co/7C1600M/IMG-9518.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7C1600M)   (https://i.ibb.co/6Zz3Hvv/IMG-9520.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6Zz3Hvv)   (https://i.ibb.co/j3Ry3pt/IMG-9529.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j3Ry3pt)

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on June 30, 2020, 10:14:20 AM
Been getting some things done!

Easy way to get the engine in the frame without scratching paint.

(https://i.ibb.co/25KNvwW/IMG-9534.jpg) (https://ibb.co/25KNvwW)   (https://i.ibb.co/sWzWg7t/IMG-9535.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sWzWg7t)   (https://i.ibb.co/MDK5G7X/IMG-9539.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MDK5G7X)



edit: OOPs - clicked post.  More in the next.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on June 30, 2020, 10:53:06 AM
There's more...

New steel cushdrive plate finally arrived:

(https://i.ibb.co/n77NKPr/IMG-9542.jpg) (https://ibb.co/n77NKPr)   (https://i.ibb.co/5hkGX2f/IMG-9547.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5hkGX2f)


Straightened rack and tool boxes went together without scratching paint - hurray!

(https://i.ibb.co/8mrRFsZ/IMG-9550.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8mrRFsZ)   (https://i.ibb.co/zJ76x3Y/IMG-9555.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zJ76x3Y)   (https://i.ibb.co/WxC21wx/IMG-9561.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WxC21wx)   (https://i.ibb.co/fQKPwP0/IMG-9569.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fQKPwP0)


Slicer in in place! 

(https://i.ibb.co/vmTgVD8/IMG-9572.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vmTgVD8)    (https://i.ibb.co/yd2gKkx/IMG-9571.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yd2gKkx)


Foot controls, handle bar and cables, front fender...

(https://i.ibb.co/LCgSpZq/IMG-9587.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LCgSpZq)   (https://i.ibb.co/bRvHtgS/IMG-9589.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bRvHtgS)   (https://i.ibb.co/yFHbZC2/IMG-9594.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yFHbZC2)   (https://i.ibb.co/r0rZ187/IMG-9595.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r0rZ187)


Installing the plumber's nightmare, but there was a setback.   :sad:   The fix was to clean (kerosene, crud cutter detergent, brakeclean, phosphoric acid, compressed air), wick some superglue into the crack and then reinforce the fitting with a blob of JBWeld.

(https://i.ibb.co/sRwKh96/IMG-9582.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sRwKh96)   (https://i.ibb.co/qrNyZXx/IMG-9591.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qrNyZXx)   (https://i.ibb.co/4RvRQYV/IMG-9612.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4RvRQYV)  (https://i.ibb.co/B2bFn2R/IMG-9638.jpg) (https://ibb.co/B2bFn2R)


One of the best things about this project is learning to do new things - pinstriping! 

(https://i.ibb.co/Yh82j2z/IMG-9624.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Yh82j2z)


For those of you interested in such things - 6 cable controls on handle bar, 4 oil pipes.   :grin:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Canuck750 on June 30, 2020, 11:46:35 AM
Looks great,

Are you brush painting your pin stripes by hand?

That is a skill I need to tackle.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on June 30, 2020, 12:13:01 PM
Looks great,

Are you brush painting your pin stripes by hand?

That is a skill I need to tackle.

Yes, but only the wheels!  A very skilled expert painted the rest of the tinware.  Wheels are simple because you just hold your hand steady and rotate the wheel.  And the expert is a couple hours away.

There are several youtube videos showing how pinstripe.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on July 01, 2020, 06:54:48 PM
Installed an unused 28mm PHBH from the Monza. - even connected the enrichener to the choke lever.  The PHBH is new to the bike so a bit of a risk, but it is in much better shape than the original Dellorto and more appropriate than the Mikuni.

(https://i.ibb.co/gSzxL1j/IMG-9632.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gSzxL1j)


Reinstalling the wiring was tedious but all checked out.

(https://i.ibb.co/hBpW3hf/IMG-9636.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hBpW3hf)


Installed tank, seat and exhaust.  Really need to get a different headpipe  :tongue:

(https://i.ibb.co/84YG0Vz/IMG-9651.jpg) (https://ibb.co/84YG0Vz)   (https://i.ibb.co/sJZmKmB/IMG-9657.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sJZmKmB)   (https://i.ibb.co/zP2vWPN/IMG-9661.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zP2vWPN)


Was sent the wrong decals so those will have to wait.

Checked valves clearances, timing, spark, air pressure etc.  Just waiting for the rain to stop!   
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Canuck750 on July 01, 2020, 07:41:11 PM
Gorgeous :thumb: :drool:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Dave Swanson on July 02, 2020, 09:45:51 AM
Looking real good!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on July 03, 2020, 12:05:21 PM
Start time!
https://youtu.be/k88yW8bYHFg (https://youtu.be/k88yW8bYHFg)

Back from the first ride in the rain (this is the Pacific Northwet).  Rain cleared later and did a 65 mile ride. Needs some fettling, but it's getting there.

(https://i.ibb.co/5cxkrMW/IMG-9663.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5cxkrMW)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Don G on July 03, 2020, 01:27:56 PM
Beauty! Sounds nice not clanky like some. :thumb:  DonG
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Canuck750 on July 03, 2020, 08:29:55 PM
Congratulations! You have done an amazing restoration, it looks fantastic and it sounds great too. :thumb:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on July 03, 2020, 08:54:29 PM
Thanks guys.  Yes the engine is quieter than it was.  Today solved the idle/progression mixture problem by making (ahem!) a new carb needle.  Idles sweetly now. 

I'd over tightened the suspension so it was a rough ride.  It's getting there.

Today has been too rainy for me...
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on July 04, 2020, 08:26:43 PM
OK - big problem.  It smokes way more than it should.  Smoke so bad I pulled the top end off to see if I'd broken a ring or failed to seat a pin clip. 

Someone scarred the ring lands when drilling oil holes in the ring grooves.  For each hole in the skirt there is shallow trough feeding oil past the scraper ring.  Any ideas on how to fix this???


(https://i.ibb.co/Srp7y0D/Piston1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Srp7y0D)   (https://i.ibb.co/Scp8jc3/Piston2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Scp8jc3)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on July 04, 2020, 10:00:25 PM
OK - big problem.  It smokes way more than it should.  Smoke so bad I pulled the top end off to see if I'd broken a ring or failed to seat a pin clip. 

Someone scarred the ring lands when drilling oil holes in the ring grooves.  For each hole in the skirt there is shallow trough feeding oil past the scraper ring.  Any ideas on how to fix this???


(https://i.ibb.co/Srp7y0D/Piston1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Srp7y0D)   (https://i.ibb.co/Scp8jc3/Piston2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Scp8jc3)


Doh! Short of a replacement piston, maybe machine the groove wider and fit a wider ring? Just "spitballing".
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on July 04, 2020, 11:17:28 PM
Doh! Short of a replacement piston, maybe machine the groove wider and fit a wider ring? Just "spitballing".

That's what I was thinking, but who cuts ring grooves any more?
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Canuck750 on July 05, 2020, 07:56:46 PM
My two bits is a new piston and rings.

I would be reluctant to try wider rings, getting the gap / clearance / gas pressure correct to seal the rings is close to rocket science. My Morini 500 had custom rings fit from some kind of fork lift engine, previous owner meant well but the machining of the piston grooves / bigger rings resulted in 80 ~ 85 psi per cylinder. The rings fit the cylinder but the gap / clearance etc was all wrong. I had to get LA Sleeve to resleeve the cylinders and fit stock pistons and rings.
I read an article in Classic Bike Guide by Richard Rosenthal on the subject and it left me of the opinion that stock designs of pistons and rings is critical to good running.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on July 06, 2020, 11:59:17 AM
Thanks Canuck!  The cylinder has already been sleeved and it is a standard bore running a new Falcone 4-ring piston. Problem is someone carelessly modified the piston.

I've polished the ring lands and it smokes much less - but still more than normal.  About like a 2-stroke :evil: 
If it won't bed in I'll be buying another piston...


(https://i.ibb.co/rcYrgr8/IMG-9672.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rcYrgr8)    (https://i.ibb.co/7Q51nfq/IMG-9676.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7Q51nfq)

Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on July 06, 2020, 09:03:55 PM
Ran about 30 miles today and it officially quit smoking!


(https://i.ibb.co/jrnMszP/IMG-9682.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jrnMszP)


Now to get an exhaust system and some decals.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Canuck750 on July 07, 2020, 05:22:16 PM
Ran about 30 miles today and it officially quit smoking!

Nice fix and clever use of a template to hold the sand paper!
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: JayDee24ca on July 08, 2020, 09:08:12 PM
That's a great build Earl. Who did you get to do the painting? Was it someone in the Coleville area?
JD
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on July 10, 2020, 10:14:15 AM
That's a great build Earl. Who did you get to do the painting? Was it someone in the Coleville area?
JD
Thanks JD.  (BTW my name's Shawn, Earl is my father)
Painting was done by a guy in Whatcom County that does it in his spare time.  He used to have a body and paint shop, but now mostly paints bike projects.  Pinstriping was done by a guy in the Seattle area - Dunn autographics.  https://www.dunnautographics.com/ (https://www.dunnautographics.com/)  Both did a great job.
Shawn
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: JayDee24ca on July 10, 2020, 06:46:25 PM
Thanks Shawn, sorry about the name mix-up. Whatcom is just south of me. When I get a little more ready for painting an old bike I have I will maybe get hold of you and get the painters' name. No pin striping involved.
JD
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on July 10, 2020, 07:01:08 PM
Thanks Shawn, sorry about the name mix-up. Whatcom is just south of me. When I get a little more ready for painting an old bike I have I will maybe get hold of you and get the painters' name. No pin striping involved.
JD
Perfect - I'm down in Bellingham.  Hope to meet you some time soon.  His name is Kevin and has an old airhead and some other funky things - mostly Japanese.  He's finishing up a Honda 305 Dream for himself now.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on July 28, 2020, 11:59:18 AM
Finally got the correct decals (https://classictransfers.co.uk/) and put on a new exhaust so took some glamour shots.  Now I'm afraid to ride it!   :rolleyes:

(https://i.ibb.co/vkRTxzv/IMG-9833.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vkRTxzv)   (https://i.ibb.co/hmN4Y4X/IMG-9835.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hmN4Y4X)   (https://i.ibb.co/hfdxcWs/IMG-9837.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hfdxcWs)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Frenchfrog on July 28, 2020, 03:59:17 PM
Stunning...I've really enjoyed reading the whole thread too..A big thank you and congratulations!!!
b
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: jdgretz on July 28, 2020, 04:02:48 PM
Finally got the correct decals (https://classictransfers.co.uk/) and put on a new exhaust so took some glamour shots.  Now I'm afraid to ride it!   :rolleyes:

(https://i.ibb.co/vkRTxzv/IMG-9833.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vkRTxzv)   (https://i.ibb.co/hmN4Y4X/IMG-9835.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hmN4Y4X)   (https://i.ibb.co/hfdxcWs/IMG-9837.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hfdxcWs)


This is why someone like you needs to have this bike rather than someone like me who would have had no idea how to even start, much less finish, such a project.

jdg
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on July 28, 2020, 08:21:09 PM
Thanks guys.  It's not perfect, and it still has some hiccups but getting there.  I couldn't have done it without the help of people on here - esp. Patrick, Charlie, Canuck and encouragement from all of you.  There are many helpful people on the Guzzi Single Cyl. forum too https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/guzzi-singles (https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/guzzi-singles)

This is why someone like you needs to have this bike...

I like fixing things but it was just about beyond me!  I have learned a LOT!

(https://i.ibb.co/QMYf0BK/IMG-9843.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QMYf0BK)
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Canuck750 on August 04, 2020, 11:01:42 AM
Stunning, your Bacon Slicer is a museum quality restoration  :bow:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: blackcat on August 07, 2020, 06:29:16 PM
Shawn, great job. A really beautiful bike.
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on December 26, 2020, 11:55:37 AM
A guy in our vintage club is a professional photographer-artist and asked to take some pictures of the GTV.

(https://i.ibb.co/K0Fr2gZ/20201223-110648.jpg) (https://ibb.co/K0Fr2gZ)


He uses a digital SLR to set up composition and lighting for the real shots with his large format B&W film camera.  So here's one of his "preliminary low res" test shots.  Wow!

(https://i.ibb.co/cwqS1jk/Leftside760-prelim-low-res.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cwqS1jk)


He's got a great collection of motorcycle engine shots and lots more on his website: https://www.johnolsenphoto.com/ (https://www.johnolsenphoto.com/)


 
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Canuck750 on December 26, 2020, 05:26:55 PM
Wow, that is a great picture :thumb:
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: SED on January 27, 2021, 10:36:02 PM
OK - crazy thing.  At some time in the distant past, my GTV had the original 1937 engine pulled out and replaced with a 1948 engine.  Probably in North Africa by the wind abraded silica sand jammed into the engine and suspension.  The engines are the same except the '37 has a 2 exhaust port cylinder head.  The only remnant of the original engine is flywheel #34542.  (why didn't that get replaced???)   The '48 engine number is 77314 - a difference of almost 43,000.   

Does the original engine still exist??? 

An internet friend was rebuilding a Falcone that had a crankcase with a broken lug.  It was an old GTV crankcase.  He bought a correct Falcone case for it - constant mesh gears, 1 piece crank, no broken lug etc.  So I asked, what was the GTV case number?  34571 - only 28 500cc engines from mine!  Maybe just a few days apart on the factory floor!  I just had to buy it.

It arrived last week:

(https://i.ibb.co/zFf1dd9/20210120-124350.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zFf1dd9)     (https://i.ibb.co/LtX7tNZ/20200926-163257.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LtX7tNZ)


It's not a perfect match, but it sure is close!

(https://i.ibb.co/M9W36JY/Guzzi-Factory.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M9W36JY)


Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Dave Swanson on January 28, 2021, 05:08:13 PM
Very cool!! 
Title: Re: Bacon Slicer project
Post by: Canuck750 on January 28, 2021, 05:15:58 PM
Great find and I love that picture showing those long rows of Bacon Slicers, amazing!