Author Topic: V7 III - Metzeler RoadTec 01 vs Pirelli Scorpion Trail 2 for year-round riding?  (Read 523 times)

Offline agdrache

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I'm approaching time for new tires, and I've started looking at other options since nobody seems to have the Conti RA3 in stock for both wheels. I ride all year in New England and don't own a car...I try to stay off the roads when there's snow, but cold and rain are common. I feel like a 90/10 type tire would be nice for the occasional dirt/gravel road, like I sometimes see if I ride to Vermont. The Metzeler RoadTec 01 sounds like it's made exactly for my use case, but I haven't been able to find a matching pair yet. The Scorpion Trail 2 seems to be readily available, but I don't know if it would be as good of a fit for my purposes.

Thoughts? Other better recommendations?
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The V7III Rough comes with Pirelli MT-60s. 
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The V7III Rough comes with Pirelli MT-60s.

The MT-60s are a fair dual-sport tire. The front definitely leans toward road / easy dirt. If it matters, the front is radial, with a bias-ply rear. I currently have them on my V7. I'll be looking for something a little more offroad-leaning, but for the OP's purpose, they'd be good. Note that I'm not the most keenly sensitive of folks when it comes to how a tire tracks, other than the observations I find when I ride in the pouring rain.

Keep in mind that a lot of folks mix tires, especially if the same model isn't available in their bike's other wheel. But if doing so, stick with a similar style (like if buying an 80/20 road/offroad, purchase a similar use tire). I've used a Shinko 705 in the back with a Scorpion Trail II front. The 705 is a good cheap tire, IMO, but I think I'll stay clear of the Scorpion Trail II from now on, only for the sake of personal experience with offroad ineptitude.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2021, 07:44:10 AM by Dirk_S »
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I've been very happy with the Bridgestone A41 90/10 tires and they are reasonably priced. Try Dennis Kirk.
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Offline agdrache

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I've been very happy with the Bridgestone A41 90/10 tires and they are reasonably priced. Try Dennis Kirk.

The A41 or the A41S?
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Offline Iron Cross Junction

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I am in Erie and can't go down to the Moto Grappa to avoid honey-do's, so I'll play in this sandbox.   :grin:

In anticipation of doing some some 2-up riding -- yes, I know; what was I thinking?  :rolleyes: -- at the South' Spine Raid in Tellico Plains a couple of years ago, I swapped out the quite fine OEM tires and mounted a new set of Pirelli Scorpion Trail 2's.  Jim Barron at RFC suggested those, and while he doesn't issue his counsel on stone tablets, he's never given me bum advice.   :bow:

Some comments on those but, as always with tire threads, these are anecdata of the butt-dyno sort and thus FWIW and YMMV:

*  I try very hard not to be a Ford, Chevy, Dodge, whatever kind of diehard with tires.  I have also bought virtually every brand out there on my Guzzis.  That said, the only two manufacturers I have found disappointing so far have been Metzler and Pirelli.  Not all of their tires, but some.

*  I was not excited about the Scorpion Trail 2's when they arrived.  Even allowing for the 90/10, they looked more 99/01.  I rode them 500 miles down to Tellico Plains, some in-&-around miles (albeit not a hundred yards two-up  :wink:), and then back to the top of Virginia.  The Scorpions have yet to see a mile of slab, but have about 7K on them, with the ratio being more like 70/30.  Very little appreciable wear.  I usually cord my road tires much -- embarrassingly, actually  :embarrassed: -- sooner.

*  But I don’t buy tires with mileage being the most important feature.  I dislike falling off (doh), so adhesion is the top priority.  As I said, they look so much like a road tire that I was skeptical about off-pavement performance.  I rarely — and never intentionally go actually off-road, but spend quite a bit of time exploring local dual track gravel and dirt.  Once those go to rocks the size of softballs and Grand Canyon-like ruts, I turn around … if I can.   :shocked:

On, however, that sort of dirt and gravel, and even in the mud, the Scorpions have surprised me no end.  I have, despite frequent ineptness on my part, never gone down from loss of traction or otherwise off-pavement.   :bike-037:

*  Road performance (adhesion) is just fine, too, tho I tend not to ride the Stornello like Ricky Racer, rarely in rain, and, these days at least, only on local area roads looking for new “unknowns.”  I have to say that the Stornello’s OEM tires — that “looked” the part of knobby wannabe’s — were unexpectedly great on wet and dry pavement.  As they, too, aside from being sticky enough for me, wore well, I plan to put those back on when the Scorpions wear out. 

If any of that is useful to you, great; if not, as I said, it’s only my butt-dyno anecdata, FWIW, and YMMV.

Best,

Bill



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I am thinking of getting some Continental TKC 70 The only problem is the 110/80R-18 only. I can burn up my rear 130/80R-17 Golden Tire GT201 that came stock I did not like the stock front Bias 100/90-18 on my Stornello

I currently have Conti R3 on it in stock sizes..

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I am thinking of getting some Continental TKC 70 The only problem is the 110/80R-18 only.

What's the problem with that size? 110-80 is listed as an alternate size by MG to the stock 100-90
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The problem is It's not exactly a match for my Stronello.Does not matter I was not going to use the 110/80R18 anyway

It does look like the MT-60 front is a perfect match to the golden tire rear in tread pattern. Also a radial.That is probably the option i will pick..

This one allows for Radial front, and rear.. I looked at those before my street tires. Although long term,might be better going this way..Because I can get the 130/89R17 rear without issues. Looks like no radial in the rear .. Conti TC-70 allow that one..

https://www.chapmoto.com/bridgestone-battlax-adventurecross-scrambler-ax41s-front-tire.html
« Last Edit: December 01, 2021, 01:30:37 PM by Brand X »

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The A41 or the A41S?


Just the regular A41 the other is too dirt orientated.
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Offline kellercycle

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i know your probably know to either both radials or bias ply. I had a shop mix them on a 1993 Kawasaki ZR 1100. Felt like I was riding on grease .Shop corrected their mistake. I came real close to crashing that day due to their mix up

Offline AaronH

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Agdrache,

Although southern CA is much drier than New England, I too ride year around.  I test the ABS during break in of new tires as soon as there's rain, and I sometimes ride on dirt roads, so my V7 tire experience might be somewhat applicable to your tire requirements. 

I bought Michelin Pilot Activ tires for my 2018 V7III Special.  For the rear, I bought 130/90-17s, and factory size in front.  I weigh about 200 lbs with gear, have Givi cases, and the first Pilot Activ rear tire lasted over 11,000 miles, although it was absolutely shot... I'll expect to change it around 10500 next time.  The third rear and second front tire, most recently replaced as a set, have about 6000 miles and are wearing normally. 

The original Pirelli rear lasted 4800 miles; the front made it to about 16,000 miles.  I rode with mismatched tires... Pirelli front, Michelin rear, for a little over 9000 miles without any adverse effects.

The motorcycle tracks much better on highway rain grooves with the Michelin rear than with the factory Pirelli, and the larger tire improved accuracy of my speedometer.  At 40 mph indicated, my GPS shows 39 mph.  At 80 indicated, my GPS shows 76.  I think the taller sidewall looks better, but that's subjective.  I've ridden in downpours with good results from these tires.  They seem to disperse water well, and braking is good in wet weather.

I rode to Solvang from San Diego this weekend.  One way, my trip odometer showed 245.7 miles.  Google maps said I rode 246 miles, and the accuracy pleasantly surprised me.  I'll likely buy these tires for this motorcycle as long as they're in production. 
« Last Edit: December 02, 2021, 04:58:51 AM by AaronH »
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The original Pirelli rear lasted 4800 miles; the front made it to about 16,000 miles. 

That is amazing mileage out of the sport demons!  I got about 3000 out of both rear tires, and maybe 5000 out of the front.  I was on the wear bars on the curved part of the tires instead of the middle. 
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Offline Bulldog9

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I replaced the stock golden tyres with shinko 705s.

They are priced very reasonably and are definitely a 70/30 tire. So far they've performed well in the wet and the dry on the road and on some of the limited gravel dirt and sand that I've ventured on.

They are pretty noisy, and I find the front tire to be a bit too aggressive and grabby in low speed turns but after about a thousand miles it has smoothed out and I don't notice it as much anymore unless I'm switching between the Stornello and the Griso.

Despite being cheap and long-lasting, I'm not sure I'll not buy them again. I've learned that I am an aspiring off-road Rider but my aspirations exceed my comfort zone so we'll have to settle for mostly on road back road and the occasional gravel or dirt road I venture upon. Of course most of my ability is tied to being a chicken and having a right knee and hip replacement I'm wont to have to put my right foot down for stability while on a rutted road. They are wearing in well, and I plan a 2K mile tour this summer. Will report back then. For the $$ you can't really go wrong, and they 'look' the part if that matters to you.



The main reason I bought the stornello was because for years I had taken long trips found a fantastic road that turned to dirt and gravel and ended up turning around because of a heavy Sport touring bike on street tires. This would include looping Vancouver Island 60% of which was dirt gravel and mud roads. The east side of the island had mostly paved roads but on the north and west side I discovered mostly dirt and gravel. I actually had to use a power washer three or four times or knocked on someone's home and sprayed off the mud from the oil cooler on the Norge. I was on street tires Metzler m3s if I recall. The way I have the store now set up it is perfect for long distance riding on any roads and I now and less inclined to turn around if I'm deep in the mountains or the country and find that the road I'm on has turned to gravel or dirt. At the bike is also become a great long-distance bike believe it or not, even gobbling up the super slab albeit at around 70 miles an hour :-).

On a recent mostly dirt/back road trip, the Shinko tires and bike handled the deep sand and gravel and rutted roads fine, and were decent on the street. However, I do live in fear of this, and that the next time may not be 1' of talc like powdery sand. Not fun to plow into suddenly at 30-40mph. On an otherwise 1" loose sandy surface over hard pack, there was this sudden pit of deep sand that was like powder. Other than having sand in every crevice of my body, no damage was done to 'my airframe'










All said, with my riding style and habits I should have went for a 80/20 or 90/10 tire not a 70/30. I've not ridden the Metzlers you mention, but have the Scorpion II tires. They feel like a street tire, and are OK off the pavement, but if you are going for more off/gravel road, I'd look at the 705's. FYI, they are bi directional, so you need to order the 4.10 for the front and mount backwards.


« Last Edit: December 03, 2021, 06:46:50 AM by Bulldog9 »
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I am looking at using the stock rear 130/80R17 Golden tire GT-201 with a Pirelli MT60 RS Dual Sport 110/80R18 setup tubeless with 3M Black 5200 slow dry sealer on the spoke area. (takes 7 days to cure)The MT60 RS should be about a perfect match in looks, and use..They probably will wear out about the same time, with 800 miles on the factory rear now.. Store the CR3 until my road gets paved. The Pirelli has a very similar tread pattern to the Korean  made Golden tire on the rear. Both will be radial that way..


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001R0GUZG/ref=dp_iou_view_item?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.jpcycles.com/product/26150/pirelli-mt60-rs-motorcycle-tires?redirectedKeyword=922-095https://www.jpcycles.com/product/26150/pirelli-mt60-rs-motorcycle-tires?redirectedKeyword=922-095

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I don't know why you want slow dry. Remembe,r you can only do about 3-4 nipples at a time. It might take you 3 weeks.
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I don't know why you want slow dry. Remembe,r you can only do about 3-4 nipples at a time. It might take you 3 weeks.

Agreed. I used two different marine sealants, one for the front, a different one for the rear. Both were fast drying marine sealants. Both still holding up. Have to keep the nipples you treated at the top to keep them from dripping off, so slow cure would be a patient winter project.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2021, 11:14:35 AM by Dirk_S »
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Because the slower the cure the stronger the grip..Just from using 5200 over the years.. Once the set is made I can move on to the next batch It will be in Jan. so time to cure.. Doing both wheels at a time will speed up things. :evil:.The wheel will also take a set in front of my Pellet stove in the shop..
« Last Edit: December 03, 2021, 11:19:00 AM by Brand X »

Offline Bulldog9

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Because the slower the cure the stronger the grip..Just from using 5200 over the years.. Once the set is made I can move on to the next batch It will be in Jan. so time to cure.. Doing both wheels at a time will speed up things. :evil:.The wheel will also take a set in front of my Pellet stove in the shop..

I really want to try this one day.
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I really want to try this one day.

I do carry a plug kit, and mini compressor, so ready on that end.. I did get 2 flats over the last few years 2002 stone was dead in the water until AAA showed up for the almost 200 mile tow home.. Second time was with my Tubeless Aprilia Touno, and I has back on the road in less then 30 minutes.(using mini CO2 bottles ,and a plug)

So having a tubeless rim can make a real difference.. Least to me.. :grin:

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Found out Avon are in our Wheel house for 90/10 radial. The AV53/54 in 110/80R18 and 130/80R17  I had them before, and would buy them over any China made Pirelli .. Not that I don't like some Pirelli, just the plastic side wall feel bugs me when mounting them..At least  some sport ones I mounted up. Took about 1000 psi to seat the bead too.. :evil: Part # shows Radial on the first one, just no R in the ad..

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08M3J2VPN/?coliid=I4G0DLBQNJIEA&colid=1ZCAD2VE4GJ8U&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07N1Y336T/?coliid=IJWV00NCSBNEY&colid=1ZCAD2VE4GJ8U&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
« Last Edit: December 04, 2021, 08:40:07 PM by Brand X »

Offline agdrache

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So, confidence on pavement in cold and wet conditions is my main priority. Gravel/dirt is.....infrequent, at most. We're talking about a mile or so worth of gravel/dirt road at the destination end of a trip that I'm only likely to do a couple times a year. I've managed it with the stock Sport Demons, and with a pair of Avon Storms on another bike, but didn't feel particularly confident with it, so I went slow. Other than that, it's a friend's gravel driveway.

I finally had a chance to take a good look at my tires today, and it appears that I need to get something ASAP - so, considering what I've been able to find in stock in the right sizes, I'll probably be going with the Scorpion Trail IIs
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I just mounted my factory almost new130/80R17 Golden tire on the rear, and ordered a MT-60 RS in 110/80R18 for the front.. This should be a pretty good match .Least they look the same now..The RS compound should stick really well for 60/40 tires.. I will mount my Conti R3 when these go away. I liked the factory rear tire overall, and this will give me radial front/rear

Offline agdrache

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I ended up finding a matching pair of Continental RA3s in stock, so I ordered those. They didn't have the 100/90-18, though, so I went with the 110/80-18.

Looking forward to trying them out, although I'd hoped I'd get a little more time out of the stock tires so I could get a better sense of how much of a change I get when I change out the fork oil for a heavier weight....but right now it's looking like I'll only get a couple days or so with the heavier oil and factory tires before I need to switch to my other bike while waiting for the tires to arrive and get mounted.
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Hard to go wrong with those. They mount up real nice, and are made in Germany.. I am hoping the Pirelli RS front is made there too..I like straight radials on both ends. They are all over the map in our sizes .. I did go 110/80R18 with the Pirelli to keep radial, and the Conti R3 in 100/90R18

Offline agdrache

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Hard to go wrong with those. They mount up real nice, and are made in Germany.. I am hoping the Pirelli RS front is made there too..I like straight radials on both ends. They are all over the map in our sizes .. I did go 110/80R18 with the Pirelli to keep radial, and the Conti R3 in 100/90R18
Yeah, the RA3 was my original plan because I know so many people like them on the V7, so I was pretty psyched when I found them in stock for both wheels. Probably next time I'll try to plan ahead a little more and give the Metzelers a try
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I bought mine at two places. Dennis Kirk ( Ft. $133.85), and Americanmototire. (R$157.44) they landed with-in a day of each other. ( Total $291.29)No sales tax here.

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I got mine for $297.40 before tax from Chaparral Moto
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Offline SMTCapeCod

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I'm approaching time for new tires, and I've started looking at other options since nobody seems to have the Conti RA3 in stock for both wheels. I ride all year in New England and don't own a car...I try to stay off the roads when there's snow, but cold and rain are common. I feel like a 90/10 type tire would be nice for the occasional dirt/gravel road, like I sometimes see if I ride to Vermont. The Metzeler RoadTec 01 sounds like it's made exactly for my use case, but I haven't been able to find a matching pair yet. The Scorpion Trail 2 seems to be readily available, but I don't know if it would be as good of a fit for my purposes.

Thoughts? Other better recommendations?

The trail tires have lugs and void area in the tread, which can help.  But a major part of the formula for your (my old) neck of the woods, is the compound.  Need something pliable at low temps, which means quicker wear, which many ADV tire manufacturers might be a bit wary of.  I don't know about size coverage for V7 III, but when I was researching options since I previously had to moto-commute through the winter, I turned up this manufacturer.  I found one retailer in Canada, but ended up getting relief from the winter commute requirement before testing them out.
https://anlas.com/en/product-categories/winter/

I actually ended up getting RoadTecs to replace sport demons.  New vs a few thousand miles so not fair comparison, but I favor the Roadtecs between the two.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2021, 08:04:05 PM by SMTCapeCod »

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