Author Topic: Timing Chain Life Span?  (Read 4899 times)

Offline Stevex

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Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2020, 05:29:18 AM »
Can't say I've noticed the Valtec making any noise in my engine.
A whine's got to be better than a loose chain thrashing around in the chest though.
Has anyone ever had a Valtec let go on them?

Online moto-uno

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Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2020, 01:33:51 PM »
  In response to reply #29 , if that shoe is sprung loaded , why is it straight up ? How does it apply any tension ? 
The Valtec has been excellent for so long I can't imagine anyone spending 3x as much for it .   Peter

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2020, 01:43:19 PM »
  In response to reply #29 , if that shoe is sprung loaded , why is it straight up ? How does it apply any tension ? 
The Valtec has been excellent for so long I can't imagine anyone spending 3x as much for it .   Peter

Those would be questions for HMB. Perhaps in the photo the spring isn't fitted.

Charlie

Offline Old Jock

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Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2020, 02:05:49 PM »
Yeah double check with HMB to be sure, but it's essentialy the same as the later model Guzzi tension

I checked on a photo of my engine when I removed the chain set up for a set of Joe Caruso steel gears (and think they are superb items)

Its just a shoe with the spring in around the shaft pivotn from memory it doesn't impart anything like the tension on the chain like the Stuuchi would.

You can actually see the locating wire at the end of the spring in the picture if you look closely.

I'm not arguing for one type of tensioner or the other as I've no skin in the game.

Wildguzzi.com

Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2020, 02:05:49 PM »

Offline Huzo

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Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2020, 03:14:00 PM »
  In response to reply #29 , if that shoe is sprung loaded , why is it straight up ? How does it apply any tension ? 
The Valtec has been excellent for so long I can't imagine anyone spending 3x as much for it .   Peter
Looks like it uses the same mouse trap style spring as the standard one.

Offline Huzo

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Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2020, 05:55:32 AM »
Well all that went ok..
I tore into the timing chest and reefed the sprockets off then worked to remove the tensioner blade pivot pin.
It was as tight as a fish’s arse and I had to resort to boring down the side to extract it, like this




But I got it out and started to remove the offending lump


Eventually I got the excess away and in went the plate


Then I threw the sprockets back in and fitted the tensioner


Poor old girl looks a bit vulnerable as I knock off for the day..


« Last Edit: March 08, 2020, 06:14:35 AM by Huzo »

Offline Frenchfrog

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Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2020, 09:12:13 AM »
Beejeysus ! some drastic surgery happing in there Huzo !!I guess your trusting that this might be the solution to that engine hiccup/rattle that you started to experience?

Offline Huzo

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Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2020, 10:00:57 AM »
Beejeysus ! some drastic surgery happing in there Huzo !!I guess your trusting that this might be the solution to that engine hiccup/rattle that you started to experience?
She was just a bit loose sounding, FF.
We’ll see if there’s an improvement.

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Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2020, 10:58:40 AM »
So I ask again about the chain size,number of links,roller size etc....I have a new heavy duty Iwis chain that could fit a Guzzi but have no part number. Thanks

Offline Huzo

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Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2020, 11:02:36 AM »
So I ask again about the chain size,number of links,roller size etc....I have a new heavy duty Iwis chain that could fit a Guzzi but have no part number. Thanks
Sorry Rough, I have nothing of value to offer..
I can count the links and measure the roller size in the morning if it will help you..?

Rough Edge racing

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Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2020, 12:22:30 PM »
Sorry Rough, I have nothing of value to offer..
I can count the links and measure the roller size in the morning if it will help you..?
Ok, and I will do the same

Online 80CX100

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Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #41 on: March 08, 2020, 01:06:22 PM »
So I ask again about the chain size,number of links,roller size etc....I have a new heavy duty Iwis chain that could fit a Guzzi but have no part number. Thanks

Hey Rough,     If you go to the www.iwis.com site and plug in these part numbers, you should be able to find specs for the chain you are looking for;

I recall that that info was noted on my receipt for the chain, but I can't find it.

000 997 76 94   This is the chain I used, it's a match and works fine, enough total length for 21/2 guzzi chains (I believe that 76 denotes the number of links in the chain or possibly total length?)

000 997 05 98    This is the master link that fits the a/m chain

When I bought my chain, I dealt with the Mercedes Benz dealer, I didn't have the info concerning IWIS being the manufacture, but if the a/m doesn't get you the info that you're looking for on the IWIS site, try some of the following numbers from the previous WG post by Steve Ford.

Joe, could you please confirm the chain's part number?
I've found 000-997-69-94-MBZ for the genuine Mercedes part and 000-997-69-94-M48 for Iwis, the OEM supplier.
Thanks.
000-997-69-94 is the OEM MBZ number for the 2.8 liter twin cam 6 cylinder engine, 000-997-76-94 in the part number for the 4.5 liter v8. I use the v8 chain because it makes 3 guzzi chains, the 6 cylinder chain is shorter so you may just get 2."

       Good luck

       Kelly
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Offline Stevex

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Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #42 on: March 08, 2020, 01:39:36 PM »
Found my original post from 2013 with regard to timing chain part numbers...was it really that long ago?

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=64202.0

Another interesting timing chain post, including input from the guru himself.

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=84066.0
« Last Edit: March 08, 2020, 01:48:06 PM by Stevex »

Offline Huzo

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Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #43 on: March 08, 2020, 04:14:19 PM »
So I ask again about the chain size,number of links,roller size etc....I have a new heavy duty Iwis chain that could fit a Guzzi but have no part number. Thanks
The chain is 37 links
                              37 plates
                              74 pins
I cannot get my vernier onto the rollers cleanly for a dimension.
Internal spacing of the link (to clear the sprocket teeth) is 0.220” (220 thou’)
Plate thickness is 0.048” (48 thou’)

Online 80CX100

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Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #44 on: March 08, 2020, 04:50:33 PM »
Found my original post from 2013 with regard to timing chain part numbers...was it really that long ago?

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=64202.0

Another interesting timing chain post, including input from the guru himself.

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=84066.0

Hey Steve,     I apologize for attributing that info I posted earlier on the MB chain as coming from Steve Ford, I must have had an old timer moment when I filed it;

I definitely copied it from your original post that you made 7 yrs ago, lol  :bow:

Your info helped me immensely, I now have a spare leftover chain for whenever I need it.  :thumb:

Tks for sharing the knowledge

Kelly
2008 California Vintage
2003 V11 Lemans
2007 Griso 1100
1979 G5 & 1980 Lemans CX100
2010 Suzuki DR650 & 1978 SR500

In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. George Orwell

Rough Edge racing

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Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #45 on: March 09, 2020, 06:18:09 AM »
 The chain I have is dual strand 41 side plates or 82 links..I believe it's not metric...The pitch or pin centerline is. .380". rollers are 250". the distance between the inside side plates ..220"....I's a beautifful chain with oiling holes on the rollers  that fits nothing, LOL
« Last Edit: March 09, 2020, 10:49:32 AM by Rough Edge racing »

Offline Huzo

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Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #46 on: March 13, 2020, 11:28:48 PM »
Well, to quote the great Man himself..



“That went as well as could be expected...!”
The old Norge started off like this.



Then some judicious use of a mash hammer and cold chisel resulted in this...





Then this..


To finally end up like this..

https://youtu.be/jJyl18wMWqE

Now in case y’all are wondering..
Yes, it is a LOT quieter than it was. The chain slap noise is gone and replaced with a whirring sound that is more indicative of a long and happy life..(in Norge years that is..)
There is a little bit to know about removing the lump of casting from inside the timing chest, but nothing that a couple of posts and a quiet Q&A won’t accomplish.. :thumb:
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 04:55:30 AM by Huzo »

Online Tom H

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Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #47 on: March 14, 2020, 12:09:16 AM »
 :bow: :bow: :bow: :thumb: :thumb:

Congrats!
Tom
2004 Cali EV Touring
1972 Eldo
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2007 HD Street Bob
1953 Triumph 6T (one day it will be on the road!)

Offline Huzo

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Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #48 on: March 14, 2020, 12:28:14 AM »
:bow: :bow: :bow: :thumb: :thumb:

Congrats!
Tom
Yeah, that one worked.. :thumb:
Unlike the V85 tone wheel saga.. :embarrassed:

Offline Mr Revhead

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Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #49 on: September 18, 2021, 08:06:56 PM »
So, Huzo. How is the Norge running now?
Also "There is a little bit to know about removing the lump of casting from inside the timing chest, but nothing that a couple of posts and a quiet Q&A won’t accomplish"

Is there a post on that, or do you have some tips?
I've just gone to replace the chain and tensioner on my 03 EV and struck this annoying little knob, and am wondering do I remove it? Or do I seek an alternative solution.
It's a big commitment to start drilling and chiseling!

Bikes done 80ks and there is a lot of wear in the tensioner face and witness marks in two spots on the casing.

Offline Huzo

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Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #50 on: September 18, 2021, 10:39:27 PM »
As I may have outlined previously, I replaced the standard 50 mm long tensioner with a Valtek one and threw a chain at it at the same time.
That was around 170,000-180,000 k and the “stretch” in the old one was barely discernible...(they don’t actually “stretch”, they wear..)
The sprockets were like new and the camshaft float bush measured up almost perfectly.
There is some trickery involved in getting the pivot pin for the old tensioner out, which needs to be done to remove the offending lump of casting, but it’s very doable.
The old model short tensioner was looking a bit “how’s your father” @ removal time.
I had changed it once at about 100,000 and as mentioned the second one was showing real signs at 180,000.
I would say that if you’ve been good with your oil changes, 90,000 for a tensioner and if you give it a chain while you’re there, you’ve no cause for worry.

BTW...
Don’t start the job unless you have access to a rattle gun.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2021, 10:41:22 PM by Huzo »

Offline Mr Revhead

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Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #51 on: September 18, 2021, 11:00:29 PM »
Thanks for the reply.  I hear you on the rattle gun, those nuts are TIGHT

I'm currently looking at options to see if I can figure out a way to fit the valtek without grinding anything away.

My tensioner is well worn and I suspect the source of high copper readings in an oil sample I recently did


« Last Edit: September 18, 2021, 11:01:18 PM by Mr Revhead »

Offline Huzo

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Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #52 on: September 19, 2021, 04:13:38 AM »
So, Huzo. How is the Norge running now?
Also "There is a little bit to know about removing the lump of casting from inside the timing chest, but nothing that a couple of posts and a quiet Q&A won’t accomplish"
Is there a post on that, or do you have some tips?
 
Sorry mate I did not see this bit.
The blood and guts bit is getting the pin out that the tensioner pin used to pivot on. I found it impossible by normal means, so I drilled down the side and collapsed the metal around it a bit.
That’s what happened at this bit.




After I got the pin out, I made a plug to go in the hole, but it probably didn’t need it.
The Norge is very quiet, so much so that I’m delaying putting the gears in.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2021, 04:15:46 AM by Huzo »

Offline Mr Revhead

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Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #53 on: September 19, 2021, 04:22:35 AM »
Ok. Mine doesn't have the pin, just the casting, looks like it's die grinder time!

Offline Huzo

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Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #54 on: September 19, 2021, 04:27:02 AM »
Ok. Mine doesn't have the pin, just the casting, looks like it's die grinder time!
What bike do you have ?

Offline Mr Revhead

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Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #55 on: September 19, 2021, 05:34:04 AM »

Offline billgilbert

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Re: Timing Chain Life Span?
« Reply #56 on: September 19, 2021, 11:10:58 AM »
Got my 850T in 1995 at 30k miles, replaced the chain and tensioner with the spring loaded plastic paddle version(Guzzi?). The stock tensioner had allowed the chain to get so loose it was starting to mill away bits of the aluminum case and tension shoe. Found those plugging up the oil passages in my rocker pivots. It's at about 80kmiles now, runs great, a testament to how much abuse and neglect these bikes can handle.

I got my SP1000NT in 2007 at about 14k miles, and replaced just the tensioner with the Valtek unit. causes a pretty loud whine, but is at 70k now, running fine.

 

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