Author Topic: 1977 Le Mans running and on the road  (Read 84008 times)

Offline Groover

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2017, 08:02:25 AM »
Here is a good site that explains some vapor blasting steps and results.

http://www.arnoldsdesign.com/Vapor-Blasting.html

The part to the right on this image is vapor blasted as final stage.

Image courtesy of the Arnolddesign.com site linked above


 
1981 Moto Guzzi V1000G5
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE, a
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2017, 08:49:42 AM »
Does vapour blasting give the "factory" look or does it come out a bit flat and without a sheen that new engines have ? Some finishes look ok, but if you touch them once with a greasy hand, you can't get the smudge off. Is that an issue with vapour blasting ?

I will let you know in a couple week's my machine should ne shipping by the end of the week. I coat all cleaned aluminum with ACF-50 which will be greasy until it dries, upon which dirt, smudge etc, just wipe off.

Offline Groover

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2017, 08:54:03 AM »
ACF-50 is great stuff. I recommend it to anyone whom owns a chunk of aluminum  :azn:
1981 Moto Guzzi V1000G5
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE, a
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE, b
1980 Piaggio Vespa P200E
1980 Piaggio Vespa P125X
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2017, 08:54:11 AM »
Here is a good site that explains some vapor blasting steps and results.

http://www.arnoldsdesign.com/Vapor-Blasting.html

The part to the right on this image is vapor blasted as final stage.

Image courtesy of the Arnolddesign.com site linked above





If you Google 'Vapor Honing Technologies' you will get to their site and it's full of You Tube videos that demonstrate all kinds of materials being vapor blasted, they explain the media selection, buying the right air compressor, charging the system and show you how the cleaning process works on various types of metals. I was really impressed with the carburetor cleaning. The finish is almost like a satin polish. I have seen examples of a 1960's Triumph 650 engine that had been vapor blasted and was very impressed with the finish.

I may be tempted to take apart some of the bikes I have finished and re-clean the alloy :wink:

Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2017, 08:54:11 AM »

Offline Huzo

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2017, 02:19:28 AM »
Thanks very much, I will watch this space.

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2017, 09:44:14 AM »
Progress is being made, albeit slowly, getting my Laverda SF1 on the road and running right, that sorted its back to the Le Mans.

The Vapour Blast cabinet has been working over time getting all the non painted or plated parts clean. I have vapor blasted with #7 glass bead followed by a hot soapy pressure wash and then into the ultrasonic cleaner and a clean hot water rinse, compressed air blast dry and then re blast again after a couple days. I have never before started an assembly with parts this clean.



Most all looks good but the rear main has some corrosion that is not worth reusing



Pistons are good but a new set or stock rings and big end shells are coming from Harpers (along with a set of NOS lower fork legs).



Bearings pulled out of the transmission case and cover, rear drive stripped, the pinion bearings need to be replace plus seals



Crank sludge trap was surprisingly clean, again I chalk that up to the Le Mans being a filter engine. I will replace the oil pump as new ones are now pretty cheap for oil filter engines

All the powder coating is done, flat black for frame components, wheel silver on the wheels.

Zinc plating and chrome plating is done and ready to start assembly.

Everything else in the motor looks good



Heads look good but the guides will be replaced, valves are pitted and will also be replaced with a new spring kit.



Tomorrow I head down to Phoenix to ride my R1150RT up to Canada winding through central California, Oregon and Idaho, a week of mountain solitude riding, priceless.

« Last Edit: June 11, 2017, 03:14:03 PM by canuck750 »

Offline swooshdave

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2017, 12:41:12 PM »
If you come through Portland let me know.


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twowings

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2017, 02:16:47 PM »
Marvelous! Have a GREAT ride!!

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2017, 03:11:03 PM »
If you come through Portland let me know.


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Will do, I am thinking of heading from Palm Springs to Bishop and then cross one of the passes to the center of California, after that no plans.

Offline Rick4003

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2017, 08:49:47 PM »
Hi Jim,

Fantastic stuff as always. I have long wanted one of those vapour blasting cabinets, yours are just making the itch worse. Looks fantastic.
Sounds good with your roadtrip! Have fun!

-Ulrik
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #40 on: June 19, 2017, 01:57:28 PM »
A box of parts where on my desk after returning from a weeks vacation, thanks to Harpers I have a NOS set of Le Mans MK I fork lowers to compliment the rebuild, and a new set of stock piston rings and big end shells. Pretty cool to unwrap some original Mandelo wrapping and see the original (less than perfect) paint finish on the fork lowers, low gloss black paint to boot.



Thanks Curtis! :thumb:
 

Offline swooshdave

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #41 on: June 19, 2017, 02:05:10 PM »
Does that mean you need to lower the standards for the finishes of the other parts of the bike to match the NOS parts?  :violent1:
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #42 on: June 19, 2017, 02:13:23 PM »
Does that mean you need to lower the standards for the finishes of the other parts of the bike to match the NOS parts?  :violent1:

The thought has crossed my mind... how many times have you heard that the 'original finish' was never that good and that most restorations are 'over restorations'.

The Italians were not known for the quality of their paint or chrome and from what I have read Ducati was one of the very worst for finish.


Offline Rick4003

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #43 on: June 19, 2017, 07:31:48 PM »
Hi Chuck

Glad you had a nice trip. Funny but not surprising that the NOS finish isn't as good as what you have finished yourself.

On the final drive, could you make a write-up on the fitment of new bearings, seals and the shimming of the bearings? I need to do my final drive too when I get home so it would be nice to have some expert knowledge to start out with :)

-Ulrik 
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #44 on: June 20, 2017, 11:50:37 AM »
Hi Chuck

Glad you had a nice trip. Funny but not surprising that the NOS finish isn't as good as what you have finished yourself.

On the final drive, could you make a write-up on the fitment of new bearings, seals and the shimming of the bearings? I need to do my final drive too when I get home so it would be nice to have some expert knowledge to start out with :)

-Ulrik

I am not swapping the ring and pinion so I will be leaving the stock steel shim as is for the ring gear, and I plan on  only replacing the pinion bearings and hope to not have to replace the pinion shims. That said I am replacing all the seals and bearings and will run some engineers blue over the gear mesh and record the imprint and see if I can make sense of the pattern as compared to the service manual. The Guzzi service manual black and white pictures are in my opinion pretty hard to read for what the correct mesh pattern should look like.

Offline Rick4003

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #45 on: June 20, 2017, 10:40:27 PM »
I am not swapping the ring and pinion so I will be leaving the stock steel shim as is for the ring gear, and I plan on  only replacing the pinion bearings and hope to not have to replace the pinion shims. That said I am replacing all the seals and bearings and will run some engineers blue over the gear mesh and record the imprint and see if I can make sense of the pattern as compared to the service manual. The Guzzi service manual black and white pictures are in my opinion pretty hard to read for what the correct mesh pattern should look like.

For now I'm not planning on changing the bearings, but all the seals should probably be changed while I'm at it. If you could take some pictures along the way like you usually do, that would be a big help :)

-Ulrik
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #46 on: June 25, 2017, 12:12:07 AM »
I could not get the front engine / frame bolt to come free, I had to cut the bolt off with a Sawsall hack saw blade to remove the motor. I soaked the engine front cover in Evaporust for three weeks and still the remnants of the bolt would not come free. I tried heating the aluminum cover, penetrating fluid and a press, nothing. I set the cover in my milling voice on my tiny bench lathe and drilled the damn bolt out.



And this is what was left



I turned the FAC damper heads to look more like the stock Le Mans fork caps, the FAC dampers come like this



A little machining they look more like stock parts



Assembled the forks, new progressive springs, I had the damper tubes zinc plated





Home made spring compressor to get to the snap ring





New fork bottom bolts and crush washers



Fitted two new fork seals



I put 50 ml of fork oil into the fork tube to keep the springs lubricated

New dust boots and the forks are done



I started on assembling the wheels, new bearings, zinc plated the spacer, I had the wheels powder coated with a clear top coat





Offline smdl

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2017, 06:18:02 AM »
First rate work, Jim!  Thanks for sharing.

Shaun
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2017, 10:26:02 AM »
Thanks Shaun, only 99 +/ - more components to build!

Offline guzzinka

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #49 on: June 25, 2017, 05:43:25 PM »
Awestruck as usual with your work - what is the story behind this particular Lemans, as in - how did you come to get it and what do you know of its history?  Looks like it led a rough life for a while....

Offline smdl

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #50 on: June 25, 2017, 06:17:12 PM »
Thanks Shaun, only 99 +/ - more components to build!

Lol.  Almost there, then.

Cheers,
Shaun
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #51 on: June 25, 2017, 09:39:01 PM »
Rear Wheel assembly, center hub replated and a new O ring



Tight fit it takes a big hammer to get it in



Snap ring



Brake disc bolts and cush rubbers



Drive plate



Simple press to pull the drive plate down





Rubber ring



Steel plate



Bearings and distance spacer



Brake disc



Rear wheel done





The front is a piece of cake, just bearings, distance spacer and two discs



Now to get some rubber on these wheels




canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #52 on: June 25, 2017, 09:40:40 PM »
Awestruck as usual with your work - what is the story behind this particular Lemans, as in - how did you come to get it and what do you know of its history?  Looks like it led a rough life for a while....

I bought this Le Mans off a long time WildGuzzi member, I don't know how long he owned it or where it came from, I have owned it for a couple years and finally got around to rebuilding it

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #53 on: June 25, 2017, 09:45:00 PM »
Assembling the bearings into the swing arm



The big drive shaft bearing is a snug fit, big driver and a big hammer



Snap ring to keep it there



Pivot bearings greased



New seals and test fit the spacers and pivot pin







Offline Rick4003

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #54 on: June 25, 2017, 09:53:58 PM »
 :popcorn: :thumb:
Nice job Chuck, perfection as always :grin:

-Ulrik
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #55 on: June 25, 2017, 09:59:48 PM »
I assembled the rear drive, new bearings, seals, O rings and gaskets



Getting the pinion nut off takes some real force





I pulled the bearings and put the shims back exactly as they where



Drove out the old races, pressed in new ones until they reach the stop



New O rings





Drive off the lower bearing



Note the shims



Drive on the new bearing



Put the shims, spacer and upper baring on, torque the big nut back on and peen the nut



Fit the snap ring back on



New seal in the case, then the brass shim



New bearing set



Drop the pinion cluster back in



Drop in the crown wheel and the distance spacer



New paper gaskets sandwich the steel shim



I heated the cover in the oven to drop the bearing in



Fitted the big seal and then new lock tabs and bolts



Then when it was all done I realized one of the drain plug threads was shot so I ran compressed air into the case while I drilled for a helicoil, worked great the alloy shards blew out the hole as I drilled






Rear drive done






Offline swooshdave

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #56 on: June 26, 2017, 12:07:04 AM »
You sure you want to use a Helicoil and not a Timesert?
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Offline Rick4003

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #57 on: June 26, 2017, 09:14:59 AM »
Looks good, you make it seem so simple :grin:

How do you check the preload of the pinion bearings and what should it be?

-Ulrik
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #58 on: June 26, 2017, 09:26:04 AM »
You sure you want to use a Helicoil and not a Timesert?

I don't have Timeserts and a Helicoil has never let me down in twenty + years of using them, especially in something as non-stressed as a drain plug. There has been lots of debate on this site in the past on the pros and cons of both systems, good points for both.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 10:13:13 AM by canuck750 »

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #59 on: June 26, 2017, 09:35:04 AM »
Looks good, you make it seem so simple :grin:

How do you check the preload of the pinion bearings and what should it be?

-Ulrik

Just take it all apart then put it all back together! I didn't replace the crown and pinion so I am hoping the shims / load does not change.

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