HD doens't want electric motorcycles

[mobiker]

When considering the environment there are 4 rules to keep in mind.

Rules of Nature (in no particular order)

1. Everything has to go somewhere;
2. Everything is connected to everything else;
3. There is no free lunch;
4. Nature bats last.

[Rough Edge racing]

Well, after this pipeline hacking by the russian criminal group, and being out of gasoline down here in Tennessee/Georgia areas, electric bikes dont sound so bad to me.....

And you think that can't happen to the electric power distribution grid? 

[Vagrant]

"Rumors of my death are greatly exaggerated." 

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/harley-davidson-launches-all-electric-motorcycle-brand-livewire-2021-05-10/

I read this as they will set up a diffrent form of retail other than or along with the normal HD dealers.

[Ncdan]

When considering the environment there are 4 rules to keep in mind.

Rule of Nature (in no particular order)

1. Everything has to go somewhere;
2. Everything is connected to everything else;
3. There is no free lunch;
4. Nature bats last.

You left out #5 Mo, $#|+ runs down hill😂😂😉🤔🥵

[mobiker]

You left out #5 Mo, $#|+ runs down hill😂😂😉🤔🥵

Its actually a corollary to #1 

[Ncdan]

Its actually a corollary to #1 

Lol, got me on that one🤔

[acguzzi]

to me the battery already has an advantage in terms of re-fueling, my daily trips could be re-fueled at home so I never have to visit a gas station and wait for a re-fill, so an EV would spend less of my time re-fueling. It's only the long trips that would be an issue, and that is far less miles than the short trips, so overall an electric vehicle would waste less time in re-fueling stations. YMMV

[twowheeladdict]

when an electric truck can pull a 15000lb trailer 400 miles and then refill in 15 minutes and go another 400 miles, I'll be first in line

What ICE Truck can do that?  Trucks have 50 gallon tanks these days?  I know your not getting fuel economy pulling 15,000 lbs. 

[oldbike54]

 

to me the battery already has an advantage in terms of re-fueling, my daily trips could be re-fueled at home so I never have to visit a gas station and wait for a re-fill, so an EV would spend less of my time re-fueling. It's only the long trips that would be an issue, and that is far less miles than the short trips, so overall an electric vehicle would waste less time in re-fueling stations. YMMV

 Heck , I've already saved at least 2 trips for gasoline to power a lawn mower , and sure as heck don't miss mixing oil in gas for the trimmer . I see the peasants carrying gas cans to the C stores and shopping for 2 smoker oil , meanwhile I am already done with lawn mowing . It's good to be the king .

 Dusty

[kingoffleece]

Plenty of diesel trucks can pull 15000lbs 400 miles.

[GonzoB]

Hi all.

About a month ago I bought a MG ZS EV. That's a small SUV, electric powered, with at 44.5kWh battery. 263 km range. It was AUD43,990. Why buy it? Well my wife and I decided that for long distance stuff we'll take the plane, train or Guzzi. And we wanted to find out about electric vehicles, and save the planet. We do about 200km per week. We installed a fast charge outlet (AUD2400) which gives 32A at 240V (7kW).

After a month of usage we love it. It's got great performance, is quiet and smooth, and is really convenient to charge. 7hr to full charge from empty. It's increased our power bill by about 40%, but it was low to start with.

What they don't tell you: The on-board 7kW charger is only single phase, so you can't take advantage of public 3-phase chargers. Well, you can use them, but they don't charge any faster than using the 7kW unit. You can use public 50kW rapid DC chargers, but after a few times using them you need to do a slow charge to equalize the batteries. 

So that's the experience so far. Very happy. It's great if you don't want to do a lot of long distance stuff, or as a second car. We have only the MG and the Guzzi.

Extrapolating this to motorcycles, you'd probably need 1/3 of all the car capacities, so 15kWh battery (100kg), 30kW motor, probably 200kg overall, and you'd end up with about the same range. There would have to be a built-in charger. But this ain't a touring motorcycle. The battery tech is not there yet.

Gonzo

[twowheeladdict]

Plenty of diesel trucks can pull 15000lbs 400 miles.

A quick search came up with 8 MPG at interstate speeds for dually diesel trucks.  Slightly better at 60 mph.   400 miles would require 50 gallons which is the largest tank size I found as an option.  Most people who tow don't risk getting below a quarter of a tank.  So yep, you might be able to, but then you might be in your camper on the side of the road if you don't roll into a station at 400 miles.

[kingoffleece]

Or, I have an aux tank in the bed.  Just sayin.............. ....

Not trying to be pissy, mind.  I'm quite sure no electric work truck currently offered would make one long day here in the northeast plowing at zero degrees for 12 hours.

[LowRyter]

A quick search came up with 8 MPG at interstate speeds for dually diesel trucks.  Slightly better at 60 mph.   400 miles would require 50 gallons which is the largest tank size I found as an option.  Most people who tow don't risk getting below a quarter of a tank.  So yep, you might be able to, but then you might be in your camper on the side of the road if you don't roll into a station at 400 miles.

OK, I can solve this.  External auxiliary tanks can easily be installed in the pickup bed.   My Duramax carries an extra 40 gallons for a total of 64 gallons of fuel.   My truck can pull a 15k 5th wheel.  My Toy Hauler trailer is about 11k max loaded and I get about 8-11 mpg towing and up to 17 mpg empty.  My overall mileage is 13+ mpg.

This debate really has little to do with the price of tea in China.   

[jacksonracingcomau]

Hi all.

About a month ago I bought a MG ZS EV. That's a small SUV, electric powered, with at 44.5kWh battery. 263 km range. It was AUD43,990. Why buy it? Well my wife and I decided that for long distance stuff we'll take the plane, train or Guzzi. And we wanted to find out about electric vehicles, and save the planet. We do about 200km per week. We installed a fast charge outlet (AUD2400) which gives 32A at 240V (7kW).

After a month of usage we love it. It's got great performance, is quiet and smooth, and is really convenient to charge. 7hr to full charge from empty. It's increased our power bill by about 40%, but it was low to start with.

What they don't tell you: The on-board 7kW charger is only single phase, so you can't take advantage of public 3-phase chargers. Well, you can use them, but they don't charge any faster than using the 7kW unit. You can use public 50kW rapid DC chargers, but after a few times using them you need to do a slow charge to equalize the batteries. 

So that's the experience so far. Very happy. It's great if you don't want to do a lot of long distance stuff, or as a second car. We have only the MG and the Guzzi.

Extrapolating this to motorcycles, you'd probably need 1/3 of all the car capacities, so 15kWh battery (100kg), 30kW motor, probably 200kg overall, and you'd end up with about the same range. There would have to be a built-in charger. But this ain't a touring motorcycle. The battery tech is not there yet.

Gonzo

Onya Gonzo
My wife has wanted an ecar for several years, unfortunately where we live and she drives, only a Tesla would give range, even the airport return would be questionable with your range. Vic government has just put the kybosh on any future development too, with extra tax for electric vehicles, wtf!
But I have done a few miles in a Renault Zoe in UK and quickly learnt range is all to do with driver, not car. It had a gauge on dash called “anticipation”, all vehicles should have one. I got top score and when I gave it back to my sister in law, the computer said she had nearly twice her normal range, no, she didn’t.

We’ve gone a completely sideways route, in lockdown we discoverd bicycles, I fixed up a couple of dumpies and we did lots of (local ) miles. I also recommissioned my old Loopy and finally got a road trip to Tassy in Feb.
My good friend there had spent lockdown building ebikes and he lit my fuse.
Within a week of coming home I’d built my first one and last week finished my wife’s.
Wednesday this week we did the first of hopefully many “small” adventures, we’ve travelled the world by Guzzi, in our dotage going slow and nowhere near as far is sounding good. You see a lot more at 20mph than 100 !
So we went to French Island, felt like Tassy ferry or English Channel, bikes on board but tied down with bungy cords !
60 odd Km (40 miles) later we got the ferry home, knackered, corrugated roads, deep sand, huge rocks, no people. Natalie said terrain and tracks reminded her of Africa (on Guzzi ) we had our picnic lunch at what is a major intersection on the map.
Nobody in sight or earshot, amazing.



I thoroughly recommend ebikes and French Island to anyone who wants adventure in the slow lane.
$30K livewire for someone else, ours go 100km on a charge, more if you pedal harder.
Next week a few hundred km of rail trails, Guzzis are getting a rest

[twowheeladdict]

OK, I can solve this.  External auxiliary tanks can easily be installed in the pickup bed.   My Duramax carries an extra 40 gallons for a total of 64 gallons of fuel.   My truck can pull a 15k 5th wheel.  My Toy Hauler trailer is about 11k max loaded and I get about 8-11 mpg towing and up to 17 mpg empty.  My overall mileage is 13+ mpg.

This debate really has little to do with the price of tea in China.

Well, if that is the case, then when I buy my electric truck it will come installed with auxiliary batteries in the truck and in the entire length of the trailer extending my range to 2000 miles on a charge.  In addition, the entire roof of the RV will be covered in photovoltaic cells to extend my range even further.   

[kingoffleece]

Putting solar cells all over seems like a no brainer.  I like it!

[Gliderjohn]

Something like this.



GliderJohn

[Sye]

We bought a 64kw Kia E-Niro last August. Range is around 270 miles in warm weather and 240 miles in winter. At the same time we installed 4kW solar panels. 8 hours to fully charge from 20% on our home 7kW/h charger and it's good to go. Cost 4p (5 cents a mile) in fuel and service costs are 50% less than our Audi. The electricity generated by the solar panels is twice what we use in the car. What's not to like? Cheap comfortable motoring. 👍

[LowRyter]

Well, if that is the case, then when I buy my electric truck it will come installed with auxiliary batteries in the truck and in the entire length of the trailer extending my range to 2000 miles on a charge.  In addition, the entire roof of the RV will be covered in photovoltaic cells to extend my range even further.   

My only dog in this fight was proving the challenge that you denied.  Easy peasy.  Regarding your proposed alternative, it's total bullshit.   

I'm on record here as proppant of EVs, partulcalrly when the next generation promises to have greater range and lower costs and more charging stations.  Elon says he'll have a pickup and a semi, so the referenced challenge may be proved sooner rather than later.  As a diesel owner that pulls a travel trailer, I'm of great interest.  What I don't understand is that Ford has come out with a hybrid pickup truck with a built in generator but has only offered it in the F-150, not the three quarter and one ton class.

[Ncdan]

My only dog in this fight was proving the challenge that you denied.  Easy peasy.  Regarding your proposed alternative, it's total bullshit.   

I'm on record here as proppant of EVs, partulcalrly when the next generation promises to have greater range and lower costs and more charging stations.  Elon says he'll have a pickup and a semi, so the referenced challenge may be proved sooner rather than later.  As a diesel owner that pulls a travel trailer, I'm of great interest.  What I don't understand is that Ford has come out with a hybrid pickup truck with a built in generator but has only offered it in the F-150, not the three quarter and one ton class.

Yea and they offer two size generators. I’m not sure what the output is on either but it’s my understanding that power tool can be ran off the larger one.

[Joliet Jim]

A quick search came up with 8 MPG at interstate speeds for dually diesel trucks.  Slightly better at 60 mph.   400 miles would require 50 gallons which is the largest tank size I found as an option.  Most people who tow don't risk getting below a quarter of a tank.  So yep, you might be able to, but then you might be in your camper on the side of the road if you don't roll into a station at 400 miles.

I agree at 11mpg (what I average) towing and a 36 gallon tank I'm looking at 396. Normally I'm hitting a truck stop well before the 400 just like I'd probably recharge a battery or exchange it before it would be totally drained.

[Moparnut72]

I have a Ram and do a little bit better but not by much.  I should have kept my old 12 valve,  14 towing and 23 empty. I had a Gear Vendors in it so it would get the 23 mpg at 70 mph. Didn't have near the power that my '13 has.
kk

[Tonyblaze]

One of my neighbors has a Livewire. I still don't see the appeal at that price range. It sounds like a toy and doesn't really have any specific visual appeal to it. I think they were trying to make it look as much like a normal internal combustion engine bike as possible. Think that was a mistake.

[oldbike54]

One of my neighbors has a Livewire. I still don't see the appeal at that price range. It sounds like a toy and doesn't really have any specific visual appeal to it. I think they were trying to make it look as much like a normal internal combustion engine bike as possible. Think that was a mistake.

 Interesting observation , do you think the E bikes should develop a style of their own ? The Zero doesn't make any real pretense of being anything but what it is , any thoughts ?

 Dusty

[Guzzistajohn]

I guess it's OK that some of the stuff in those batteries are mined by child labor somewhere in Africa then right?

[Motormike]

It sounds like a toy and doesn't really have any specific visual appeal to it. I think they were trying to make it look as much like a normal internal combustion engine bike as possible. Think that was a mistake.

You and I see and hear two different things.  The Livewire looks about as far from a traditional Harley as you could get.  It's been accused of looking like an Electro-Lux vacuum cleaner, but beyond having two wheels and a seat,  nothing like a traditional motorcycle.

[Scott of the Sahara]

Maybe Electric cars are the wave of the future
and...
maybe Electric motorcycles are too.
I am not interested in either of them for the following reasons in no particular order.

#1 I like the sound and feel of my 1200 V twin Guzzi. The roar and vibration is what makes motorcycling fun.
#2 I like to shift gears to get the best power and cruising speed dialed in.
#3 I can leave right now and travel cross country and take as many back roads as I like and I will find gasoline when I am low. Car and Bike
#4 I think that Electric cars should have a bumper sticker saying this car is powered by coal and natural gas.
#5 If I wanted to travel by golf cart, I would have bought one by now.
#6 There is not a choice of big trucks powered by batteries, and if there was I would not buy one. ( I use a big Van for my business)

[oldbike54]

I guess it's OK that some of the stuff in those batteries are mined by child labor somewhere in Africa then right?

 Unfortunately that is true of a lot of things .

 Dusty

[blackcat]

Test rode a Livewire this morning, wow what a cool bike. The quality and finish of the bike are top notch and the power is unbelievable; you really have to hang on under acceleration. Yes, the range is not great but there is a built in system to let you know where the closest charging station is and whether you have enough battery to get to that location. Met a guy at the dealer who was getting some upgrading done to the onboard computer on his bike and he told me about how he took a trip from here(pensacola,Florida) to the Keys, he said it took him longer due to to the charging stops but he had no problems. And tomorrow he was heading up to North Carolina with a  stop in Atlanta and he assumed a couple of charging stops between here an Atlanta. He also said that Tesla is coming out with a new battery system and the cells from that battery can be swapped into the Livewire and they estimate a 1,000 mile range before charging that bike. 

And the local dealer sold six of those bikes in the last month.