Stuck oil filter cover

[greer]

The oil filter cover on my V7II is stuck like glue.  I searched the forum and tried everything I've read: wiggled the bolt, tapped with a mallet, pried against the fins with a screwdriver.  I drained the oil while the bike was hot but the bike was cold by the time I got back to change the filter, do you all have better luck with these things when they're hot?  I'm thinking I might run some miles with a less expensive 20w50 oil and try it again with the engine at full operating temp.  Any other ideas?? Thanks.

Sarah

[Kev m]

Heat gun (carefully) or hair dryer.

[Vagrant]

Heat gun might help but carefull use of a screwdriver works for mine. Some paint seemed to be more glue than paint and the bolt is way smaller than the hole it goes through. I wound up trying 2 different size crush washers at the same time. Hopping it will help.

[SIR REAL ED]

Hi Sarah,

I think your idea of trying again with everything hot is a good plan.  No need to actually ride the bike.  Just let it idle for a few minutes.

I can't remember what the oil filter cover looks like.  The mallet should work, but if the geometry is such that you cannot give it a good whack, Here is what I would try.
1. plug your crankcase vent hose.
2. while the bike is hot loosen the oil filter cover retaining bolts (again I can't remember what holds the cover to the engine) enough to produce a 1/8" gap from tight.
3.  Take off the oil filler cap and use a rag to seal around a compressed air blow gun and pressurize the crankcase.  If it doesn't pop off while you or Doug are pressurizing the crankcase, the other one could tap the cover or pry on the cover.
4.  Don't loosen the bolts toooooo much or you might make a mess when the cover pops off.  Watch for your crankcase hose plug popping out.

Don't worry about exploding your crankcase, all the commercially available blow guns now are pressure limited.  I think to 35 psi.

I would avoid the lighter fluid trick used to pop tubeless tire beads into place...... for now!  I would try that on one of Doug's bikes first!!!!

Good luck.  Let us know!

[greer]

How do you go at it with the screwdriver, Vagrant?  I've tried prying against the fins and have skinned the paint here and there.  Ed, I don't know if I have the wits to go about your plan.  I thought about the heat gun but I was afraid I'd warp or damage something.  Thanks, everybody.

Sarah

[SIR REAL ED]

How do you go at it with the screwdriver, Vagrant?  I've tried prying against the fins and have skinned the paint here and there.  Ed, I don't know if I have the wits to go about your plan.  I thought about the heat gun but I was afraid I'd warp or damage something.  Thanks, everybody.

Sarah

Sarah,

If you get a chance, post a picture of the oil filter cover.  I would not worry about warping anything that is aluminum with a heat gun, or even a propane torch.  It would require extreme patience and lack of attention.

[Bulldog9]

How many miles on the filter? If you think being hot will make separating easier, refill with oil, ride for 3K and then do the change again, but try the filter first.

I have a thin bladed screw driver with a bend in the tip. It slides between the cover and case and pops it right off. One time I put a small block of wood on the cover and gave it a schwack with a hammer on the front edge. Popped loose without issue.

[guzzisteve]

The pan has a bevel on it where cover fits with an oring between it. I have replaced broke ones. Block of wood on cover fins works, strait on ends not on sides.  I would not start motor.

[Vagrant]

From the right haand side, the third fin in is the covers fin. stick a big screwdriver in as shown and pry down steadily and it will pop off if replaced before and slowly seperate if not. Heat shouldn't be needed and as I think about it might make it worse. As I recall they are cheap but don't hold me to that.

[Kev m]

I definitely wouldn't do the air pressure thing.

The small prytool thing or block of wood sounds good!

[Vagrant]

Yea, wouldn't blowing every seal in the bike out be a fun thing!
Also because of the lip on the cover it needs to be pried down not hit. I don't think you could get the down pressure hitting it although a few taps all over it with a small plastic hammer might not hurt. Basicly between the poor painted surfaces and the tight fit it just needs steady pressure.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Do the the bolt out before you lever on the cover.

[sib]

From the right haand side, the third fin in is the covers fin. stick a big screwdriver in as shown and pry down steadily and it will pop off if replaced before and slowly seperate if not. Heat shouldn't be needed and as I think about it might make it worse. As I recall they are cheap but don't hold me to that.

That's what worked for me.

[Rich A]

Slightly off the wall suggestion. I was thinking that you might cut some "fingers" into a piece of PVC pipe (or something weaker than aluminum) that would fit into the grooves between the fins. Drill a hole thru the other end of the pipe and turn the pipe w a screwdriver. That might be enough to break the cover loose.

Rich A

[greer]

Thank you, Vagrant!!  Your picture was a revelation, and your method worked like a charm.  But on my bike the filter cover had been installed so that the notched fin used for prying was on the inside, so that I had to lay on my back and look directly up under the bike to find it.  I'd already stuck my head under there and felt all around time and again, but once I was under the bike and looking straight on there it was.  Whew!! All part of buying a used bike, and no big deal now that I know.  That notched fin is the ticket! 

But I'm wondering now if that might be a common install mistake, even in some service departments.  While I was searching and reading everything I could about oil filter covers I ran up on Zinfan's V85TT thread from a year and a half ago:

 https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=103744.0

There's discussion about using the exposed lip to tap and pry, but Zinfan replies that in feeling around the cover there's nothing to tap on. Sounds like my predicament, exactly.  Thank you again for that picture Vagrant, and thanks to the rest of you for chiming in to help. 

Sarah
 

[oldbike54]

 

 Dusty

[Vagrant]

Guzzi had a good idea with it but should have made it so it could only go in that way.

[n3303j]

As an aside; I noted the comment stating modern air nozzles are limited to 30 PSI.

I was surprised by that comment.

Wandered over to Harbor Freight and looked at their air gun. It comes with a safety nozzle and a rubber nozzle.
https://www.harborfreight.com/blow-gun-with-safety-tip-and-rubber-tip-63577.html?
Quote advertisement "With the safety tip nozzle connected, meets OSHA safety standards of maximum inlet 90 PSI, and dead pressure less than 30 PSI." Not at all sure what "dead pressure" is. But the safety nozzle has a cross hole drilled so that if the main hole is jammed against your skin the air just exits through the cross hole.

Meanwhile the Specifications Page notes the air gun will accept 150 PSI input and will deliver 150 PSI output through the rubber nozzle.

That would make you think twice about pressurizeing a crankcase with a modern blow gun.

(On the other hand I used carb cleaner and a 150# rubber nozzle to blow through a set of plugged injectors to clear them of crud from a 7 year nap on a bike stored full of fuel.)

[SIR REAL ED]

As an aside; I noted the comment stating modern air nozzles are limited to 30 PSI.

I was surprised by that comment.

Wandered over to Harbor Freight and looked at their air gun. It comes with a safety nozzle and a rubber nozzle.
https://www.harborfreight.com/blow-gun-with-safety-tip-and-rubber-tip-63577.html?
Quote advertisement "With the safety tip nozzle connected, meets OSHA safety standards of maximum inlet 90 PSI, and dead pressure less than 30 PSI." Not at all sure what "dead pressure" is. But the safety nozzle has a cross hole drilled so that if the main hole is jammed against your skin the air just exits through the cross hole.

Meanwhile the Specifications Page notes the air gun will accept 150 PSI input and will deliver 150 PSI output through the rubber nozzle.

That would make you think twice about pressurizeing a crankcase with a modern blow gun.

(On the other hand I used carb cleaner and a 150# rubber nozzle to blow through a set of plugged injectors to clear them of crud from a 7 year nap on a bike stored full of fuel.)

I agree on all counts.  If you ever get the chance to test a modern blow gun side by side with an "old" one.  There will be no doubt about which one restricts outlet pressure.

About 50-55 years ago, it was great fun to play with the old style blow gun that let the full 175 psi of line pressure thru.  Dad was often not amused.  Not to hard to understand the safety restriction aspect........

[mhershon]

Sure was a pleasure to meet you in Cedar Vale, Sarah!

[Cam3512]

First time is usually the toughest.  Don’t over tighten it, or you’ll crack the cover.  Make sure the O-Ring is there and isn’t mutilated.  Use a new one if so.

[Moparnut72]

I have never had a compressor that had a regulator that would allow more than 125lbs.
kk

[greer]

Sure was a pleasure to meet you in Cedar Vale, Sarah!

You too Maynard, along with the rest of the bunch.  Now Doug and I are pondering Keene, NH next month.  Rally fever!

Sarah

[SIR REAL ED]

I have never had a compressor that had a regulator that would allow more than 125lbs.
kk

I'd bet several years pay on the 175 psi figure, cause as a child, I can remember seeing the gage, and watching the needle move when the compressor was turned on.  Pretty sure that was the pre OSHA days!

There wasn't much room for safety in Dad's shop.  It was viewed as limiting productivity.

Any injury was immediately followed by the chastisement of "Well?  Did you learn anything, dummy?"

[Moparnut72]

I always turned up the pressure switch but could never find a regulator that would go over 125. In Calif any indoor compressor where there are employees must be in a cage or be ASTM certified. That used to be the law, it may stricter now.
kk

[SmithSwede]

Yes.  Do NOT over tighten.   The bolt does not back out, probably due to the spring, so don’t worry about that. 

I don’t tighten it much at all.  If it is a bit too loose, you might notice a drop of oil beneath that area.  Especially when the engine get cold.   If that happens, just snug it up a tiny bit more so the leak stops.  That’s all you need. 

I only change the oil filter every second oil change, so around 12,000 miles. 

[Vagrant]

Yes, a max of two fingers and a thumb! Or a 1/4" tiny ratchet.  Otherise the crush washer goes up into the cover. Actuallly I thing just getting hot does it also.

[greer]

Yep, I just snugged it good.  No leaks so far but I'll keep an eye on it.  Thanks again for the help!

Sarah