Author Topic: Wood in my engine (Read 18097 times)

PandionExpress · « **on:** October 29, 2018, 10:56:43 PM »

So I did something stupid.

I was adjusting my valves. First time doing this. Looking for TDC. The video I was watching was using a chopstick to help find it. I missed that the hole the chopstick was down was the spark plug hole. So since the chopstick stuck out of the engine, I took my 9 inch wooden skewer and dropped it into one of the lower holes I side the valve cover. And it disappeared. So now there is a skewer floating inside my engine.

Of course I found TDC right after this by finally finding the D on the flywheel.

Oil is just decomposed wood anyway right...?

Andrew

oldbike54 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 29, 2018, 11:17:07 PM »

Oops

Well at least a Guzzi cylinder head is easy to remove .

Hmm , I guess you could attempt to set the wood on fire

Dusty

SED · « **Reply #2 on:** October 29, 2018, 11:44:21 PM »

Run it 500 miles and change the oil and filter?

pete roper · « **Reply #3 on:** October 30, 2018, 02:51:31 AM »

You are joking?

Wildguzzi.com · « **Reply #3 on:** October 30, 2018, 02:51:31 AM »

yogidozer · « **Reply #4 on:** October 30, 2018, 05:26:18 AM »

Andrew, put your bike up on the center stand, in high gear.
Take out both plugs.
Holding a drinking straw in the cylinder you'll be setting the valves on, rotate the tire until the piston is at the top.
Both pushrods should spin.
This is now TDC compression stroke.
Take the straw out of the cylinder

Set both valves.
Repeat on the other cylinder.
Sunrise..Sunburn... Sunset...Repeat

bmc5733946 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 30, 2018, 06:38:07 AM »

Remove oilpan and find skewer.

Brian

Gliderjohn · « **Reply #6 on:** October 30, 2018, 06:40:31 AM »

Dusty is correct and has some experience with this although I contributed to him having some experince.

GliderJohn

Guzzistajohn · « **Reply #7 on:** October 30, 2018, 06:57:56 AM »

Quote from: gliderjohn on October 30, 2018, 06:40:31 AM

Dusty is correct and has some experience with this although I contributed to him having some experince.
GliderJohn

Interesting how he didn’t mention that

Guzzistajohn · « **Reply #8 on:** October 30, 2018, 06:59:59 AM »

Quote from: bmc5733946 on October 30, 2018, 06:38:07 AM

Remove oilpan and find skewer.

Brian

He must have the non piston engine

chuck peterson · « **Reply #9 on:** October 30, 2018, 07:03:33 AM »

Stop.

Step away.

Put down all tools and weapons of destruction.

Seek consultant on site with credentials.

Review "4 stroke engines" in a book or online

No gerfingerpokinn

If all else fails read directions

First, do no harm

"Stop- in the name of love...."

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #10 on:** October 30, 2018, 07:14:40 AM »

I'm having a hard time visualizing where the 9" skewer disappeared. Maybe a picture would help..

tris · « **Reply #11 on:** October 30, 2018, 07:19:41 AM »

I never have liked the idea of sticking things down the plug 'ole

For me its

Plugs out and bike out of gear
Stick your thumb over the plug hole and pull the engine over with a socket on the front nut until air starts to hiss past your thumb
Shine a torch down said plug hole and while still pulling the engine over, watch the piston come up and stop

QED engine on TDC or as close as makes no difference given the valves are on the base circle part of the cam

Stand fast, I suspect that this 9" dowel has gone down the oil return bore from the head to the sump

mechanicsavant · « **Reply #12 on:** October 30, 2018, 07:23:00 AM »

Ahh, grasshopper, when you can walk across the speedy dry without leaving a footprint & snatch these flat washers from my hand you have so much to learn!

yogidozer · « **Reply #13 on:** October 30, 2018, 07:30:18 AM »

And there's always the chance he's just messin' with us for Halloween.

rdbandkab · « **Reply #14 on:** October 30, 2018, 07:32:22 AM »

My buddy did something similar. He used a pencil in the spark plug hole. (I'm grinning as I type this) There must have been just enough angle to put a bind on the pencil. "Snap!" I think it was Thanksgiving day... But he ended up calling the "dirt bike brigade!!", and we all ended up helping him take the head off and dig out the parts of the pencil, and metal banded eraser.

It's been years, but we never let him forget it. NEVER!

yogidozer · « **Reply #15 on:** October 30, 2018, 07:40:09 AM »

There's even a smaller version of this

gearman · « **Reply #16 on:** October 30, 2018, 07:42:31 AM »

He must have put the skewer in the oil return hole .

chuck peterson · « **Reply #17 on:** October 30, 2018, 07:51:13 AM »

Spark plug hole...

Oil return..

Same difference.....

To the O.P. ....

I can jest loudly because I've done worse...much much worse....mistakes lead to understanding

Let's just say I felt your pain when my tap broke off in the threaded crank nose....all my friends won't let me forget that fubar-ian...

Luckily I got to learn all about tap extractors....like they exist. And they work

PandionExpress · « **Reply #18 on:** October 30, 2018, 07:54:55 AM »

Alas, that would be a great Halloween fools joke. Pic showing the hole (battery on camera was low, so no flash ) below. It was near the spark plug hole :) Kinda.

If i take off the oil sump, should i find it there? That seems easier than removing the cylinder head.

I ended up finding TDC by: Bike in neutral, using the bolt on the alternator to turn the engine clockwise, and watching the crankshaft through the peephole. When i saw the D (i was working on the right side), i jiggled the valve rockers, and they were loose. I did do this right? Right?

TOMB · « **Reply #19 on:** October 30, 2018, 08:03:44 AM »

Chuck, didnt the tap extractor lead you to buy a V700?
Just sayin
TOMB

Mike Tashjian · « **Reply #20 on:** October 30, 2018, 08:43:21 AM »

If you are just learning how all this mechanical stuff is suppose to work it is easy to get things wrong. So in the interest of getting things right lets go over a couple of basics. I always check engine rotation by putting the bike in a high gear and with the plugs out, rotate the drive wheel in the forward direction noting the way the engine turns. That lets you move the engine in the right direction. Understanding the engine must rotate two full turns to complete all four cycles(intake, compression, power, exhaust) is a must. So the engines valves are adjusted when the piston is Top Dead Center on the compression stroke. The compression stroke is when the piston rises after the intake valve closes. If the exhaust valve is closing and intake opening you are on the wrong rotation. Verify the Pistons location with a straw or pencil(in the spark plug hole only)as the piston reaches Top Dead Center of the compression stroke. Yes, removing the oil pan will let the stick out of the engine. If you are unsure of that procedure be sure to read up on that first. Mike

Frenchfrog · « **Reply #21 on:** October 30, 2018, 08:52:10 AM »

If the stick is in the cylinder then I can't fathom how you would get it out by removing the sump but I'm allways open to learning !

Old Jock · « **Reply #22 on:** October 30, 2018, 09:23:26 AM »

I think it's either stuck in the oil return tube (an integral part of the barrel) or it's went into the sump

I'd check the barrel first, as I reckon that's the most likely

Get cylinder onto TDC (both valves will be closed and rockers able to rock) it's been explained already how to do it
Remove rockers and the support plate
Fish out bit of wood
Put the whole lot together again in the reverse order it came apart, making sure the same parts go to the same place from where they were first removed.
Remember to torque the head nuts down.

I reckon you will get away without doing anything to the head gasket or the like

If it has dropped all the way it's in the sump

Neither is a big deal to do and does not need any special knowledge or tools

As for stupid shit, I'm still doing it and if you don't believe me just look at my previous posts

PIA and don't let anybody who posts a smart ass reply get you down.

You've either done stupid or you take your bike to a shop (to let them do stupid and charge you 50-75 bucks an hour for the privilege.)

acogoff · « **Reply #23 on:** October 30, 2018, 09:23:48 AM »

The worst that could be required is to have to remove both the head and the sump to get "it" all out of there. Remove the sump first may be all that is needed. No big deal.

Groover · « **Reply #24 on:** October 30, 2018, 09:31:59 AM »

Maybe chase it with another chop stick (anticipate double disaster...) with a bit of superglue on the tip? Or tubing? Hopefully it will touch/grab the other and be able to pull it out?

Good luck.

Kev m · « **Reply #25 on:** October 30, 2018, 09:35:06 AM »

Quote from: Groover on October 30, 2018, 09:31:59 AM

Maybe chase it with another chop stick (anticipate double disaster...) with a bit of superglue on the tip? Or tubing? Hopefully it will touch/grab the other and be able to pull it out?

Good luck.

I don't know that the superglue would set though (it needs a tight, non-porous, anaerobic connection). You need something sticky enough to grab that will either definitely stay on the stick or you wouldn't worry about staying behind and I'm just not sure what that might be.

John A · « **Reply #26 on:** October 30, 2018, 09:45:19 AM »

If it's in the spark plug hole, use another chopstick with sticky stuff from a rodent glue trap to fish it out or yard the head off. If it went in an oil return hole it will be in the sump so pull the pan.

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #27 on:** October 30, 2018, 09:53:28 AM »

Quote from: PandionExpress on October 30, 2018, 07:54:55 AM

Alas, that would be a great Halloween fools joke. Pic showing the hole (battery on camera was low, so no flash ) below. It was near the spark plug hole :) Kinda.

If i take off the oil sump, should i find it there? That seems easier than removing the cylinder head.

I ended up finding TDC by: Bike in neutral, using the bolt on the alternator to turn the engine clockwise, and watching the crankshaft through the peephole. When i saw the D (i was working on the right side), i jiggled the valve rockers, and they were loose. I did do this right? Right?

Actually, yes.. you did.

And.. yes, you should be able to pull the oil pan (a great feature of the Guzzi engine) and take your skewer out. That should be the first thing you do.
Here's what you need to know.
(1) The Guzzi engine turns clockwise, viewed from the front.
(2) Take off the valve covers and remove the spark plugs.
(3) Take off the alternator cover.
(4) You did exactly right by using the bolt on the alternator to turn the engine clockwise.
(5) Do the left (S) as you are sitting on the bike facing forward

first.
(6) Turn the engine while watching the intake valve on the left cylinder. (The one nearest the carb or throttle body) As the intake valve opens and then closes, the piston will be coming up on compression ready to fire. *Then* put your skewer in the spark plug hole as it nears Top Dead Center. It doesn't have to be perfect, but if it is, you will see the S in the window.
(7) Adjust the valves on that cylinder. The method for feel used to be to put the feeler gauge in the middle of a big telephone book and pull it out.. but since there are no more telephone books..

once you have it where you think it is right, try .001" bigger. It should not go or be very hard to insert. .001" smaller should have almost no "feel."
Got that? Kool.
(8) Turn the engine 3/4 of a turn clockwise, and the right cylinder will be at TDC ready to fire. You will see the D through the window if it is "perfect."
(9) Adjust those valves.
Easey Peasey.. and good on you for coming here and admitting your mistake before just trying to start the engine. It's a learning experience, and we've all done something..

guzzisteve · « **Reply #28 on:** October 30, 2018, 09:56:47 AM »

Yes, that hole in the picture is oil return and goes through to oil pan. Drop oil pan, same procedure as changing oil filter. You may want to change the filter while you have the pan down, depending when it was last changed.
18 bolts, 14 around the outer edge and 4 on the bottom in between the fining(2 towards front & 2 towards the rear). Drain oil first and get a new gasket.
Good Luck.

pehayes · « **Reply #29 on:** October 30, 2018, 09:56:56 AM »

Pull the sump. If you find the stick just take it out. If you don't, then find the orifice where the head oil drains back into the crankase. Find something similar sized and flexible (like a control cable???) and push it up the drain hole to push the stick out the top. There are many things I would try before taking the head off.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

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Author Topic: Wood in my engine (Read 18097 times)

oldbike54

pete roper

Wildguzzi.com