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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Motormike on April 09, 2021, 02:04:38 PM
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I'm completely flummoxed (and worn out). For the last 4-5 hours I've been trying to install a new front tire on my Griso. Got the old Metzeler Z8 off the rim. (No easy task...I hate NoMar) Struggled to get the new tire on the rim, but finally did it without too much blood (did I mention how much I hate NoMar?). Now, for the life of me, I can't get the bead to seat on the rim. I've tried every trick I know. I've soaped it, bounced it, left it in the sun for an hour, inflated it, deflated it, bounced it some more, re-inflated it. Around 60 to 70 psi, I can see the bubbles start to form around the part of the bead that is seated, so I'm only able to get about 60 psi in the tire, no matter how hi I set the compressor. I've never struggled with a tire like I have this one. Of course, the old Metzeler said "Made in Germany" on the sidewall, where as the new one says, "Made in China," so who knows if it's even round? Any ideas? How much pressure should it take to seat a motorcycle tire?
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I've never needed more than 40-50 PSI to seat a tire. As I recall my Pirelli Scorpion tire installation on my Griso went very smoothly. Perhaps you gouged the rim enough to cause a problem. Check the shoulders and get a little more lube on before trying to seat the tire again.
That said, I've seen others reporting bad tires so you may well have a defect on your hands.
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The bead on the Pirelli MT60s were a bit of a bear for me to seat on my V7. Took the bike to a mom and pop tire shop in western NH. They had a little bit of trouble themselves but finally got it on using Tire Snot, available on Amazon. I had to do the procedure myself after re-sealing the spoked for tubeless, and used the product. I was able to get the tires on with the help of that product. It’s like the consistency of wet corn starch.
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I have installed 100's of tires on every type wheel and/or style motorcycle and if you are fighting to mount/dismount the tire you are doing it wrong. Its not NoMar or any other tire machines fault, its your technique.
Significantly disagree with all due respect.
I’ve done other tires myself. I couldn’t do these MT60s, and the mom & pop shop had trouble as well until they pulled out the snot.
Some tires are tougher than others.
Proper lube helps.
Proper tools help.
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I've installed maybe 180 motorcycle tires (and plenty of car tires) and yeah, sometimes the SOBs just don't want to seat. I use Ru-Glyde liberally and when they won't seat at 50 to 60 psig, I use a clamp-on tire chuck (valve stem removed) and control the air supply from the other side of the garage, since I don't wish to be hit by an exploding tire or rim. I've had Metzelers (made in Brazil) take 90 psig to seat. There was nothing wrong with the rim or the type or amount of lube I used. And once seated, the tires always worked fine on the motorcycles.
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Put a small mark on the rim where it’s not seating. Let all the air out and break the tire from the rim. Turn the tire 180 degrees then pump her back up. If it does not seat then, get back for step 2.
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I usually only change dual sport tires these days, just to keep in practice. A small shop a few miles from my house will change and balance the tires if you bring in the wheels for $25 per wheel. It's just not worth the trouble, sweat and cursing for me. Some of the ADV tires have really stiff side walls that can be a real bear to change even with professional shop equipment.
I've never done it, but I have read where people will ride around the block for hard to seat beads. I assume this would be a slow speed ride.
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Recently I had great difficulty seating the bead on a Shinko tire for my California II. I finally took it to a local shop. The rim was smooth with no nicks. Plenty of tire lube used. Very high air pressure was tried. Still the bead would not fully seat. Eventually after several attempts, the bead finally seated. The shop mechanic had no idea why this new tire was so difficult to seat. :undecided:
(https://i.ibb.co/0nw6Fjp/4-72-inch-wide-120-90-18-sr777-front-Royal-Distributing.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0nw6Fjp)
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I have installed 100's of tires on every type wheel and/or style motorcycle and if you are fighting to mount/dismount the tire you are doing it wrong. Its not NoMar or any other tire machines fault, its your technique.
Please, ObiWan, explain what technique I need to use to inflate a tire?
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I took the rim with the tire to the local Auto tire shop. They said "we won't touch it." I tried to explain all I wanted them to do was inflate it enough to seat the bead. They simply said "we won't do motorcycle tires." And that was that. Anybody want to buy a rare one-wheeled Griso? If you're really good at wheelies, you can ride it home!
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I suspect (although without X-ray vision, I can't be certain) that the bead in question is stuck on the spoke nipples. (no rim strip) I used lot's of lube in the drop-center, but if the bead is caught, about all I can do is take it off and try again. Or drive the 70 mile round trip to the nearest motorcycle shop. Ugh.
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First, are you dead certain you are mounting the correct size tire to the wheel. If not, obviously stop.
DO NOT attempt to seat the bead using excess pressure!!! I would not go over 60 psi. Death or serious personal injury can occur if you over-inflate. The injury photos are gruesome.
Get the tire as hot as you can. Leave it out in the direct sun for hours. Place above your hot car engine with a blanket on it. The hotter and more flexible the rubber, the easier it will seat.
Use plenty of lube all around the bead seat on both sides of the wheel and tire. You may think you have lubed this area, but you may not have lube on the ramp out of the drop center. Something is sticking and hanging up.
Remove the valve stem and inflate with an air compressor gun. You want a fast intake of air as opposed to a slow inflation through a restrictive valve stem.
I have sometimes wrapped a cinch ratchet around the circumference of the tire to push it down, but be careful not to over-inflate.
I like the idea of marking the non-seating portion of the tire and rotating it to a different area.
Try patience. Lube it, inflate to 60 psi, and leave out in the sun. Maybe it will pop in place after a few hours.
I know they make a Cheetah bead seating tool, but I’ve never used one.
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I've never needed more than 40-50 PSI to seat a tire. As I recall my Pirelli Scorpion tire installation on my Griso went very smoothly. Perhaps you gouged the rim enough to cause a problem. Check the shoulders and get a little more lube on before trying to seat the tire again.
That said, I've seen others reporting bad tires so you may well have a defect on your hands.
If you don't have a regular commercial "Bead Belt"..but
If you do have a decent ratchet strap tie down..wrap it around the outer circumference of the tire and cinch it down very tight...that along with with plenty of soapy water and a good compressor it usually works for me when I'm having bead trouble
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I have a box that has a piece of glass on one side . Placing the tyre in the box and setting it in the Sun for the solar gain results in a nicely warmed tyre. then use the zip tie method to mount the tyre over the rim . Warmed up and stretched slightly , the tyre almost seats its self .
Dusty
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My .02,
I've been changing tires on motorbikes for 'bout 50 years or so and have done at least 50 sets on my current beemer in the last 16 years.
Good idea to heat them up in the sun ,like a parked in the sun car w/windows rolled up so they are soft. Also important to clean very well the inside of the rim where the tire is seated and lube. I use the tire lube that NAPA sells and it works good. Coat the tire and the rim and remove the valve CORE, (important) and get a clip-on air chuck (clips on the threaded part to the stem).
I set my little compressor to 110 psi and just clip it on the tire and move away 'bout ten feet until I hear the "pop" usually a couple then un clip the chuck and let the tire deflate.
Check that the bead is even all around the rim on both sides, and reinstall core in the stem and inflate to what ever you run for pressure.
Usually the tire bead will seat somewhere under 80 psi. With a small compressor it is highly unlikely your going to either cause the tire to "blow up " or jump the rim using a normal small compressor set to around 100 psi.
If your uncomfortable w/this procedure have some one else do it.
Of course in a pinch you can be bold and use the "starter fluid" method... spray a bit in the tire and use a BIC lighter to ignite and pop its done. Have done this but only as last ditch effort. A fav for seating big tractor tires!! (done many!)
FWIW
:-)
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skip the tire lube. spray the entire rim and the tire with Pam. Yes that Pam. Never had an issue with it. Ruglide, not so much.
Then go fry some eggs!
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I've changed a couple of dozen tires, and this is the first one that's whipped me totally. I've tried the ratchet strap method, no luck. I've removed and reinstalled the tire twice now, rotated it every which way, it still won't seat. It's plenty lubed now...so greasy inside and out I can barely hang on to it without it slipping out of my hands like a greased pig! Probably spin on the rim if I ever get it mounted! Grab and handful of front brake and the rim will stop, but the tire will keep turning! What kind of compressor hoses are some of you using that "clip" on? I have to sit there and hold the chuck on the valve stem. I haven't seen a clip-on style of air-chuck since my bicycle pump days when I was a kid. If I had a way to clip the hose to the valve stem, I'd just set er to 100 psi and get back. Hell, a tire exploding would be an improvement over where I am with it now.
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Here's one but I got mine at the auto parts store.
https://www.harborfreight.com/tire-chuck-with-lock-on-lever-62626.html?cid=paid_google|||62626&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=&utm_content=&gclid=CjwKCAjw9r-DBhBxEiwA9qYUparuPcqkAw4nsT3YQ9vVP_ZPbxnEGRriAw3DC6sVNh9xoq_nW0RL7RoC99EQAvD_BwE
(https://shop.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/6/2/62626_zzz_500.jpg)
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Btdt, I had a ft tire on my DR650 on and off at least 3 times before I finally got it to seat, high pressure, hot sun and bouncing was the cure for that b*tch.
Your air chuck that you have to hold on and force air through the valve into the valve stem isn't helping you.
It's the big inrush of tank pressure that will seat it,,,, remove the valve stem innards,,, get a clip on chuck, cover everything with a blanket, and then open up the regulator from the tank to the hose, or a foot valve would be sweet (it's on my list but not in the shop yet, lol).
It sounds like you may want to take the tire off and clean up all that lube first or you will have problems later.
I've seen some of the racer boys use tire warmers, or as has been suggested make up little hot boxes, tarps over chairs etc with work lamps inside, front of the woodstove, etc I've got a set of tires sitting in my hot car for the last couple of days, waiting for me to get the stars aligned for my own tire battles, lol.
Put the tools down, take a break and come back at it with a fresh set of eyes, always helps me when I'm stuck and frustrated.
It'll come, good luck and stay safe
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I've come across several posts on sites like Bay Area Riders (BARF) that complain the made-in-china Metzelers are smaller by 1-2 mm than the old ones make in Germany. All these posts are from 2014:
"One odd thing I have noticed with the China production tires is that they seem almost 1mm smaller compared to prior Euro production tires. It takes a little extra pressure to get them seated on the rim."
"Seems like the 17" tires are actually 16.98" in size"
"And yes they were a bigger bitch than I remember to shoe-on with tire irons than the Spanish made ones."
"So far the only issues to report are the mutha effin tight fit issues during the install process.
Haven't heard of any operational issues."
I can tell you one thing...mounted or not, it will be a cold day in hell before I buy another Chinese Pirelli/Metzeler tire!
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These issues lead me to buy my tires from my dealer and he puts them on.
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Put the tools down, take a break and come back at it with a fresh set of eyes, always helps me when I'm stuck and frustrated.
It'll come, good luck and stay safe
Best advice right there.
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I'll give it rest for now. Ordered one of those "clip-lock" air chucks which will certainly help. I do think the tire might be a bit undersized. The bead seats about two-thirds of the way around on both side of the tire, but the remaining bead just pulls down tight into the drop center and won't budge. It's a 120/70-17, but one would swear it's too small by the fight it's giving me.
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The only thing I can add is to clean the bead area very well with a scotch-brite pad. The first time I changed the 200 / 60 rear on my 1400 I couldn't get the bead to set with even with 60 lbs. Someone (maybe from this forum?) gave me the scotch brite tip and they have all set with less than 30 lbs since then.
I'll be changing another 200 / 60 tomorrow, not looking forward to it! Every 6K miles.
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where as the new one says, "Made in China," so who knows if it's even round?
That right there is funny! :laugh:
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Hmmm. Out of spec tire would a problem.
Even if you do get it seated, I’m not sure I’d be comfortable riding a out of spec and now stressed tire, especially on the front. Maybe ditch the crap tire and get a quality one.
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All great if you want to pay the premium. I get tires 40 to 60% less than what local dealers charge and an hour of my labor to change them at my convenience. My tire machine has paid for itself 10X over.
What type of tire machine do you have? Would you buy it again? If not, what would you buy?
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I have a box that has a piece of glass on one side . Placing the tyre in the box and setting it in the Sun for the solar gain results in a nicely warmed tyre. then use the zip tie method to mount the tyre over the rim . Warmed up and stretched slightly , the tyre almost seats its self .
Dusty
I like the idea of a solar box tire warmer, also the idea of leaving the tire in the car. What is the zip tie method of mounting a tire?
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No need to get racist guys. "Negah sifut kwai lo."
I use dish soap & water for lube. The air bubbles help block the air going out and seat the bead. I always use a ratchet strap on the tire while inflating. I have more problems with tubed tire installation than tubeless tires.
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I'll give it rest for now. Ordered one of those "clip-lock" air chucks which will certainly help. I do think the tire might be a bit undersized. The bead seats about two-thirds of the way around on both side of the tire, but the remaining bead just pulls down tight into the drop center and won't budge. It's a 120/70-17, but one would swear it's too small by the fight it's giving me.
I’ve had the same problem with new Avon Roadriders on my v50 today. No matter what I tried, I couldn't get one side to seat. I swear it is a mm or two two small. I finally ordered new Duros and then saw this thread. I’ll go back and try again tomorrow.
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What is the zip tie method?
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Since I’ve seen your Griso in person, I might buy it without the front tire. If you get frustrated enough I’ll take it off your hands. :grin: :bike-037:
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The zip tie method is simply using about 5 or 6 large zip ties thru the tire pulled very tight expanding the inner circumference enough so the tire will slip over the rim . Really easy with tubeless , although I have managed it with tubes also . The reverse can be used to dismount a tire , but fishing the zip tie under the tire is kinda tricky .
Dusty
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I have found I sometimes can't get the tire to seat using my small shop compressor, if that's the case I take it up to a nearby service station, their compressor has much more capacity.
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I have had issues with mounting Pirelli diablo tires on my Aprila wheels. Using the slippery mounting lube from No-mar/etc/ and super clean rims Only thing that worked in the one stubborn bead area that would not seat, was to take a small bit of silicone grease to the area,and it would seat.. Rubber mallet, and other things like higher then safe pressure was not moving it..Only a inch or two was lubed with it. The tire was taking way too much air pressure to seat the bead.. I had a Continental car tire blow up seating the bead about 50 years ago.. It knocked me silly ,and I saw stars on that one.. It rates up there with getting hit in the face with a baseball bat.. Which also happened a few years earlier, The air pressure hit harder in the area of brain trauma (IMO)
The China made Pirelli tires have a weird plastic like feel to the sidewall. I think that is part of the issue with seating the bead. They worked well, but I am not going to use them again. I've mounted up Avon, Continental, Michelin,Dunlop,Shinko,and a few othrs in the last few years, and zero bead seating issues. Even many different car/truck tires.. Pirelli bike tires on certain rims can,and do suck in that area.. I am not talking about seating the whole tire bead issue thing.. Bazooka can help, and tire bead seaters in general.. A bicycle tube can also help just to get the bead seated/started. Just never a problem with Motorcycle tires, and rim combos to really need help with getting a bead seat started.
I have good equipment,and Mounted many type tires using different machine, and bars/levers,etc.. BTW, do not seat tires with any parts of the body around, over the tire.. Use a ft control for air pressure, and hands free/
(https://i.ibb.co/ygGGTTH/KONICA-MINOLTA-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ygGGTTH)
central dakota humane society (https://nonprofitlight.com/nd/mandan/central-dakota-humane-society)
(https://i.ibb.co/JsdR3dc/KONICA-MINOLTA-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JsdR3dc)
united way of miami dade (https://nonprofitlight.com/fl/miami/united-way-of-miami-dade-inc-co-carlos-g-molina)
head free of the area
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We had this problem a couple of weeks ago with one of the tires on Doug's Roamer; it was as if the tire was just entirely too small, we tried everything we could think but it wouldn't even begin to seat. A buddy mentioned he'd had the same trouble with a trailer tire and ended up at a fleet service shop where they'd used a bead seater tank. Like magic, it took those guys a matter of seconds to fix us up.
Sarah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax8aEcO6WWg
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clean tire and rim
you only need a small amount of lube (I use 50/50 Dawn dish soap & water in a spray bottle)
clip/click on air chuck
big rush of air
I have been where you are at a couple of times and took my tire to my buddy's shop. Larger compressor than my small
Husky did the trick.
Seen your Griso at Fall Creek Falls and I'll take it off your hands. Trailer ready!
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Mike, you've got my sympathy brother! As already said, let it rest and come back at it fresh later on.
Oh, and PLEASE be careful not to bend a rotor in your struggles.
Don't ask....
(https://i.ibb.co/QD65wMV/20210309-202614.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QD65wMV)
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I think there’s a little confusion here. The issue was not that he couldn’t get the tire to take air and inflate, it was the tire in one area would not seat, or “pop out” if you will. Putting a belt around the center of the tire would do nothing for this issue.
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Success! (of a sort). Well, I de-mounted the Metzeler, and just for grins, measured the inside diameter, bead to bead, and compared it to a new Avon 120/70-17 front I was saving for another bike. The Avon measured a true 17 inches across, bead edge to bead edge. The Metzeler measured 16 & 3/4. So I mounted the Avon. Took all of about 15 minutes, the bead fully seated at 60 psi with a satisfying "Pop!" While I could try and send the Metzeler back, I'm so pissed at it my last act will be to throw it as hard as I can in the tire trailer at our local dump...where that Chinese POS belongs! Please consider yourselves warned and stay far away from Chinese-made Pirelli/Metzeler tires. Avon..Made in England...God save the Queen!
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Nope! The OP only needs more pressure to get the bead to pop/seat.
Actually no , read the rest of the thread .
Dusty
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Over the years I've seen lots of tires take 80-90 lbs to finally seat. Clip on chuck, no valve stem to slow down the air rush, foot pedal. Get around a corner & let er rip. Never had one blow.
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I keep thinking of the original "JAWS" movie when Roy Schneider said "We're going to need a bigger boat". Change boat to compressor and there you go. At the end of the movie it was compressed air that took out Jaws.
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Best $380 I ever spent. Coats 200 Cycler. Home-made copy of the Marc Parnes balancer.
(https://i.ibb.co/vVQcCSS/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vVQcCSS)
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Maybe take your wheel to a good machine shop and have them face off that extra 1/4”. No more trouble with cheap Chinese tires. And think of the $$$ saved
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Best $380 I ever spent. Coats 200 Cycler. Home-made copy of the Marc Parnes balancer.
(https://i.ibb.co/vVQcCSS/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vVQcCSS)
Was the model 200 the predecessor of the 220 (which is the one I have)? Think I paid something like $800 quite a few years ago for mine (new). Agree that it's a terrific machine!
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Continental did a demonstration at a BMW Rally back in the 80's. They were showing the strength of their tires, They has a special solid wheel that they mounted used tires on. They would blow them up to over 200 lbs before they blew. I wasn't there but a friend was, he said it was quite impressive. I bet the bang was at the least.
kk
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This thread saved my day. I was having the exact same problem getting a 90/90 Avon Roadrider to seat. I put the wheel in my car in the sun for an hour, lubed the bead with tire lube, and clipped a chuck onto the valve without the stem. I put it outside the garage with a blanket on it, then plugged the air hose into the compressor set at 100# from far away around the corner. It took two shots to seat both sides. Firing another $5.00 off to Luap as he is the matchmaker who added to my skill set.
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Warm tires are easier but again if you use the right technique its not a problem hot, warm, cool, cold or freezing. I've changed tires for fellers in the dead of winter who tires were left in the car trunk at sub freezing temperatures for day or more until they could get here. Bring the tire/wheel down to the basement and change them out.
Correct me if I’m wrong Perrazzimx14 but I think you may be talking about mounting the tire on the wheel vs. getting the bead to seat. Tire mounting is a pia but doable if one pushes the tire into the center well while spooning on the other side. Much easier on the knuckles with a tire machine. Seating the bead is something that never troubled me over 40 years of tire changing until this last set of Avon’s. One side of the bead hung up in the center well a bit even with a substantial amount of air in the tire. Shocking it with air solved it. It was a clean cast v50ii rim and I lubed the bead, so I must assume that the problem was with the tire itself.
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The zip tie method is simply using about 5 or 6 large zip ties thru the tire pulled very tight expanding the inner circumference enough so the tire will slip over the rim . Really easy with tubeless , although I have managed it with tubes also . The reverse can be used to dismount a tire , but fishing the zip tie under the tire is kinda tricky .
Dusty
I like it. I might try it with hose clamps in the future.
What color zip ties work best?
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Was the model 200 the predecessor of the 220 (which is the one I have)? Think I paid something like $800 quite a few years ago for mine (new). Agree that it's a terrific machine!
Yes, the 200 was the predecessor of the 220. The 220 was $1200 when last available. My brother bought mine (used) while on a road trip in the Carolinas.
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I like it. I might try it with hose clamps in the future.
What color zip ties work best?
A ratchet tie down works much more efficiently and much stronger.
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I like it. I might try it with hose clamps in the future.
What color zip ties work best?
Hose clamps have sharp edges that might damage a tyre or the rim , and would be slow . A bag of 20 large zip ties doesn't cost much . I have a zip tie gun , it has a ratchet assembly that pulls the ties really right .
Oh , white works best :laugh:
Dusty
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A ratchet tie down works much more efficiently and much stronger.
Two different concepts Dan , we aren't wrapping the circumference of the tyre with zip ties , they are going around the carcass to expand the inner circumference . I have learned that stretching the tyre this way also helps it seat if yo keep it warm .
Dusty
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Two different concepts Dan , we aren't wrapping the circumference of the tyre with zip ties , they are going around the carcass to expand the inner circumference . I have learned that stretching the tyre this way also helps it seat if yo keep it warm .
Dusty
Ok, got it. Yes, different cause and effect objective👍
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Actually yes! Pressure is what pushes the tire bead outward and over the bead of the rim. If the tire bead is not being pushed over the wheel bead at a given pressure there is not enough pressure to push it over.
Dude , the tyre was 1/4 inch too small , you are being a bit too cocksure here .
Dusty
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Dude , the tyre was 1/4 inch too small , you are being a bit to cocksure here .
Dusty
let me rephrase that . Would you bet a hundred bucks that putting oh say 200 PSI to the tyre would 100% for certain seat it , then would bet that the structural integrity of the tyre would not be compromised by being permanently stretched over the rim ?
Dusty
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let me rephrase that . Would you bet a hundred bucks that putting oh say 200 PSI to the tyre would 100% for certain seat it , then would bet that the structural integrity of the tyre would not be compromised by being permanently stretched over the rim ?
Dusty
I have no idea if 200# or 137.6# or 54.4# is the magic number. But yes I'd wager a bet that more pressure than has been used and did not set the bead will set the bead.
Bring you tire and $100 bill along. I have an air compressor and beer. I can also prepare dinner if you like. Any food allergies or dislikes?
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I have no idea if 200# or 137.6# or 54.4# is the magic number. But yes I'd wager a bet that more pressure than has been used and did not set the bead will set the bead.
Bring you tire and $100 bill along. I have an air compressor and beer. I can also prepare dinner if you like. Any food allergies or dislikes?
You are willing to risk another member's safety to prove a point then ? Think about this for a moment , because that is what I am reading .
Here's the deal , the OP is ultimately the person who must make the decision . you do you , let him make his choice , fair enough ?
Dusty
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Well there's a spin I didn't anticipate. You made the bet I'm willing to follow through. As for safety you or anyone else for that matter safety will not be jeopardized. If you like you can put on a flack jacket, goggles, helmet and stand behind bullet proof glass if you want to bring all that stuff along or even vacate the property while I inflate the tire.
I'm not promoting doing anything unsafe although anytime you are working with pressurized items there is a risk factor. Be that as it may sometime it takes more than 20 or 30 pounds of pressure to "set" a bead. Clip on the chuck, crank up the pressure a bit and stand back.
I got that hundy waiting whenever you are ready.
You can do whatever you want with your tires , telling someone else they are somehow stupid for not wanting to do the same is problematic . Capeesh?
Dusty
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I've used air pressures up to 90# before. Most times a bead will be set at lower air pressure. DEPENDS on the tire maker and how old the tire is. The race of the people making the tires doesn't make a difference. It's the company making them.
In the past I've different results from American, German and Italian.
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I've used air pressures up to 90# before. Most times a bead will be set at lower air pressure. DEPENDS on the tire maker and how old the tire is. The race of the people making the tires doesn't make a difference. It's the company making them.
In the past I've different results from American, German and Italian.
Agree , and I have used 90 PSI also , but haven't ever had a tyre that measured small and won't insult someone for not wanting to use extreme pressure .
Dusty
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OP glad you got it sorted,
I also had a pirelli once that was an absolute pig to seat.... about 5 years ago IIRC
didnt think to check its country of origin at the time, maybe their quality control is dropping? Anyone else have problems with Pirelli?
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in the interests of returning this thread to the polite world of real world useful information, can we all admit to using a hacksaw or a chainsaw to remove a stubborn tire when we hit the wall?
"Works a treat!" as the Brits like to say!
Ox acetylene torch? Now that's a bit extreme!
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Boy, you guys really ran the line out on this one😄. While it’s only a guess, l think the slightly undersized tire was catching but good on the spoke nipples in the drop center. And no amount of air pressure my compressor could generate would budge it. The Griso rim spokes are sealed with o-rings as most of you know, making for a very rough drop center. Basically acting like so many fish hooks on the tire bead. I suspect the tire bead would have seated easier on a cast rim. The Avon bead seated “normally” with 60 psi. That 1/4 inch more room made all the difference.
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in the interests of returning this thread to the polite world of real world useful information, can we all admit to using a hacksaw or a chainsaw to remove a stubborn tire when we hit the wall?
"Works a treat!" as the Brits like to say!
Ox acetylene torch? Now that's a bit extreme!
I brought in the wheels from my old G5 to a local guy who was set up professionally with a top of the line No Mar machine with all the fancy tools; he was very well known and an expert at his trade, all he did was motorcycle tires.
The tires on the G5 Borrani soft aluminum wheels, looked brand new, still had the little mold nipples on the tread, but the date code was 40 years old. Those tires were so old and stiff, he wasn't budging them a bit.
He wasn't the cursing type thankfully, but he worked up a powerful sweat, he was totally drenched :grin: he ended up cutting the tires off using a combination of air grinder cut off wheels and big heavy metal snips :thewife: :violent1:
He retired from the business very shortly after that experience with my old tires, lol :evil:
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Sawzall .
Dusty
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The incident I’m going to tell y’all about is in no way pro or con to anyone’s believes on the subject of air pressure to get a tire to “pop out” or seat.
I worked at a tire shop for several years when I was in high school. I’ll never forget an incident that occurred at the shop one day when a buddy and fellow worker was attempting to get a tire to seat, or pop out, if preferred term, on a Craiger aluminum mag wheel, on a 1967 Ford Mustang fastback. Tommy, the guys name, cautiously kept adding a couple pounds at a time. I’ll never forget the number when the wheel failed. We were all standing back and offering moral support when it happened at 86 LBs. when it blew. Tommy hit the floor like he had been shot and when he stood up it was immediately obvious he was hurt.
Long story short, he suffered permanent damage to his face, left eye and hearing loss in both ears.
I guess I’m trying to tell anyone who is willing to listen this. Any time you have to use over 50-60 pounds of air to seat a tire, start using caution and take every preventing measurement possible. A tire cage preferably and position your hand out of harms way.
Just an olds guys over caution maybe.
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The incident I’m going to tell y’all about is in no way pro or con to anyone’s believes on the subject of air pressure to get a tire to “pop out” or seat.
I worked at a tire shop for several years when I was in high school. I’ll never forget an incident that occurred at the shop one day when a buddy and fellow worker was attempting to get a tire to seat, or pop out, if preferred term, on a Craiger aluminum mag wheel, on a 1967 Ford Mustang fastback. Tommy, the guys name, cautiously kept adding a couple pounds at a time. I’ll never forget the number when the wheel failed. We were all standing back and offering moral support when it happened at 86 LBs. when it blew. Tommy hit the floor like he had been shot and when he stood up it was immediately obvious he was hurt.
Long story short, he suffered permanent damage to his face, left eye and hearing loss in both ears.
I guess I’m trying to tell anyone who is willing to listen this. Any time you have to use over 50-60 pounds of air to seat a tire, start using caution and take every preventing measurement possible. A tire cage preferably and position your hand out of harms way.
Just an olds guys over caution maybe.
Amen. and the tire does not have to leave the rim to be dangerous. I have a friend who almost got killed when the bottom of the ATV tire he was changing popped out sending the tire and wheel upwards like a rocket. After almost decapitating him, the tire/wheel assembly bounced off the ceiling of his garage.
We used to sometimes wrap chains around the split rim/tire in case the locking ring came off. The chain trick would not have helped my friend. The chain merely would have been part of the tire/wheel projectile.
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Amen. and the tire does not have to leave the rim to be dangerous. I have a friend who almost got killed when the bottom of the ATV tire he was changing popped out sending the tire and wheel upwards like a rocket. After almost decapitating him, the tire/wheel assembly bounced off the ceiling of his garage.
We used to sometimes wrap chains around the split rim/tire in case the locking ring came off. The chain trick would not have helped my friend. The chain merely would have been part of the tire/wheel projectile.
Yes sir Sir Ed. The tire cage became a government mandate in tire shops due to several deaths due to that D@€£ split rim decapitating more than one worker!
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Words you really don't want to hear in many contexts: "Crap, that never happened before!"
Rich A
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The shop that mounted a run flat car tire on my rear wheel said: ‘it fought us a bit’. The sidewalls of a run flat car tire are a bit stout.
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HA ! We've had some of those "stubborn" tires. The ones that give me the most trouble are the tubeless MT90 (130/90 x 16) frickin' four-ply bias sidewall. Being that skinny, ya'd think they would be happy. They're not. Dang beads won't seat !
The first thing to do is get a tire, and then go and get the $9.99 galactic standard hair dryer at WalMart. Alternatively, you can use your wife's hair dryer - at your own risk.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51112248650_b884409638_m.jpg)
You're gonna need a temperature thingy.
These cheap meat thermometers aren't all that accurate, but it's fun to watch the temperature go up up up - just the same.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51110902087_817ffe198c_b.jpg)
Then make a custom tire oven out of a couple of cardboard box.
Add a some small blocks to get the tire up off of the workbench and to get some airflow.
Cut a hole in the top and insert the hair dryer.
Bake at 130/140 for half an hour, or until wife wants to know "what's burning"
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51110902022_d09f7bac05_m.jpg)
In the summer, we just lay them on the asphalt driveway and then turn them a couple of times.
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I like it. :thumb: Ditto on the narrow bias ply tires. Had similar problems with seating the beads on shitty American tires (Firestone & Goodyear). Must have been the formula for those tires. They must have been using the same ingredients as their car tires. I had a bad German Continental tire and a number of lousy Italian Pirellis too.
A lot soapy water, ratchet tie down and a dead blow plastic hammer always helps with sufficient air pressure. I usually leave them in the sun too. We're about 190 miles southeast of Honolulu. The lowest air temp at the house is 72F almost always.
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https://motorandwheels.com/where-are-tires-made-brands/
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https://motorandwheels.com/where-are-tires-made-brands/
Last time I checked Texarkana was NOT in Arizona :rolleyes: :laugh:
Dusty
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Must be true it's on the internet. :grin: :grin: :grin: 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
https://www.bing.com/search?q=texarkana+arizona&cvid=71c151346e534c86abaa82bb475fc008&aqs=edge.0.0l2.12776j0j4&FORM=ANAB01&PC=U531
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