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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: sign216 on July 04, 2016, 06:30:44 PM

Title: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: sign216 on July 04, 2016, 06:30:44 PM
I was talking w some other cyclists and the AMA (Amer. Motorcyclists Assn.) came up.  I was struck by the negative feelings.  Essentially people thought the AMA was corrupt, Harley-centric, and a poor reflection of the sport.

I belong, but I've never paid attention to it.  Are they right?
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: Arizona Wayne on July 04, 2016, 06:36:39 PM
I used to feel that way about the AMA but belong to it now.  I don't like the fact the AMA supports riding w/o a helmet but let the idiots that do kill themselves.  If I never voted for a politician that said something I disagreed with then I'd never vote either.  The AMA does a lot of good for us bikers, like fight E15 in our gas, etc.
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: Idontwantapickle on July 04, 2016, 06:45:47 PM
It's overall a pretty good organization.  The museum works at preserving the history and,  as Wayne pointed out, they try to keep the rules from running over us. I'm not a fan of the efforts to fight helmet laws.  Seems like they could spend that time on other matters but I think it "fires up the base" as they say.
They do three things really.  The museum,  event sanctioning/organizing and lobbying.
I take the last one with a grain of salt but the first two are well worth it.
Hunter
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: JJ on July 04, 2016, 06:57:12 PM
They have had their ups and downs over the years, but overall, I think it is a good organization. 

I have been a Life-AMA member for many years...and motorcyclists need a voice in Washington and among the states to further protect our right to RIDE, so in that light, they serve a worthy purpose (IMHO) :thumb: :cool:
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: Guzzistajohn on July 04, 2016, 07:23:06 PM
I was a member during my AHRMA days because I had to be but I'm not now. Never really saw much value. I always have 2nd thoughts about an organization that will have me👍
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: nbags on July 04, 2016, 08:01:33 PM
i'm a member and i think AMA loves to waste money,they been beating this e15 horse for long time let the big boys fight that battle(GM,Ford,Toyota ) no car company want anything to do with e15,AMA should use budget a little better try to get some roads patched up,make sure that roads are safe for motorcycle use during construction,provide support if an accident occurs with no fault from member,go after texing and driving offender that cause an accident.
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: oldbike54 on July 04, 2016, 08:03:10 PM
I was a member during my AHRMA days because I had to be but I'm not now. Never really saw much value. I always have 2nd thoughts about an organization that will have me👍

 Me too , which does cast doubt on the wonderfullness of this place  :shocked: :grin:

  Dusty
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: Rich A on July 04, 2016, 08:13:26 PM
I've used their towing service twice (for a pickup and a car).

Rich A
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: Arizona Wayne on July 04, 2016, 08:18:11 PM
Me too , which does cast doubt on the wonderfullness of this place  :shocked: :grin:

  Dusty


If nothing else they have a great towing service for ALL your vehicles,  not just MCs.   Compare that to any other tow service.  :wink:
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: Guzzistajohn on July 04, 2016, 08:19:22 PM
I've used their towing service twice (for a pickup and a car).

Rich A

I read that they'll pick you up for a breakdown but not a crash. Kinda kickin' a man when he's down don't you think?
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: wrbix on July 04, 2016, 08:23:06 PM
As an admitted tree-hugger, I've never been in favor of the AMA's agenda of opening all wild public lands to off road motorcycle use, protection of natural resources be damned......and therefore never a member.
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: handyandy on July 04, 2016, 09:07:35 PM
Y'all forgot how AMA screwed DR John out of business when he was whupping Honda and the ujms buts.
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: Roebling3 on July 04, 2016, 10:13:14 PM
Cripes, I thought for sure, at the time, AMA would step in when hd couldn't win @ Daytona. I'm recalling the flat track rule changes whenever a challenge came from a /British or Japanese bike.  Or (running and ducking), when they managed to get high tariffs on Japanese mc imports to protect the Milwaukee collective, with their development heads secure where the sun doesn't shine. Plus 1 on the helmet and noise thing, btw. I don't believe the AMA have played any roll in the ethanol debacle. Can anyone seriously think the AMA gets consideration when lobbyists for the corn production industry have way more savvy, money and interest in the status quo, - - - or worse. R3~ 
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: Arizona Wayne on July 04, 2016, 11:13:31 PM
. I don't believe the AMA have played any roll in the ethanol debacle. Can anyone seriously think the AMA gets consideration when lobbyists for the corn production industry have way more savvy, money and interest in the status quo, - - - or worse. R3~


That's because you don't belong to the AMA so don't get any up to date info. on what they are doing in Wash. DC. like us subscribers do.  They are fighting it as best they can.  Auto. mfg.s could care less because they have already made their newer vehicles compliant to E15 use.
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: Arizona Wayne on July 04, 2016, 11:15:11 PM
Y'all forgot how AMA screwed DR John out of business when he was whupping Honda and the ujms buts.



Not familiar with that 1 and how many decades ago was that?
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: Arizona Wayne on July 04, 2016, 11:19:10 PM
As an admitted tree-hugger, I've never been in favor of the AMA's agenda of opening all wild public lands to off road motorcycle use, protection of natural resources be damned......and therefore never a member.


"AMA's agenda of opening ALL wild public lands to off road MC use"................... .not true............you've been drinking too much Sierra Club kool aid.   :boxing:
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: Arizona Wayne on July 04, 2016, 11:39:09 PM
I read that they'll pick you up for a breakdown but not a crash. Kinda kickin' a man when he's down don't you think?


Never heard that 1.  So if you hit ice and crash into a tree or a deer jumps out in front of you they will not assist?  I don't believe this.   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: O on July 05, 2016, 09:11:59 AM

Never heard that 1.  So if you hit ice and crash into a tree or a deer jumps out in front of you they will not assist?  I don't believe this.   :rolleyes:

Believe it or not, that's their policy. They only assist for breakdowns, not accidents.
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: LowRyter on July 05, 2016, 09:24:13 AM
I've not seen much value to the AMA. I've been a member on and off, usually for some gimmick, tow service or calendar. 

Like most lobbying groups, they have to generate some type of fear to mobilize membership, whether it's E15, anti helmet laws, or dirt tracking all over the forests and deserts.   I really don't care and think for myself in the first place. 

Luckily I lost a credit card a few years ago and automatic membership went away with the card.  So no AMA, so no cash to a guy in Kansas.

The one thing I like is motorcycle racing.  And this is where the AMA has always dropped the ball.
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: sbaker on July 05, 2016, 09:48:09 AM
Its simple.. If you have an issue that they are involved in, whether for or against, you'll have an opinion. If not, they don't matter to you.. It's really simple.
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: Spuddy on July 05, 2016, 11:09:42 AM
I had 18 years of continuous membership before I dropped it.  It had something to do about a "reformer" chairperson who became somewhat of a demigod. The quality of the magazine when down from professional to an amateur newsletter. That was years ago. Don't know what the state of the organization is now.

Spud   
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: Arizona Wayne on July 05, 2016, 01:03:25 PM
Believe it or not, that's their policy. They only assist for breakdowns, not accidents.


Now that I think about it more maybe that's because an ambulance will probably come for you and a tow truck covered by your insurance if you have full coverage.
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: sib on July 05, 2016, 01:57:26 PM
My '13 Stone came covered by a 1-year roadside assistance plan.  When that expired I joined AMA only for the roadside assistance.  When I sold the '13 and got my current '16 Stone, again it came with a 1-year roadside assistance plan, so I didn't renew with AMA.  When that year expired I once again joined AMA.  I don't think much of AMA's stances on most things, so I'd like to drop it again but I can't find a competitively priced roadside assistance plan.
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: Sheepdog on July 05, 2016, 02:02:15 PM
The AMA screwed up American Motorcycle racing something awful. The last Class C event I attended had all the pageantry of a small church fair and the rules were skewed so much in HD's favor that the event rivaled professional wrestling for authenticity. Then there is roadracing...the once prestigeous Daytona 200 is now a 600cc Superbike race that serves as a backdrop for Sturgis-like strip shows and burnout contests.

Add in the fact that they have taken to supporting causes at the ridiculous extreme of the sport, and I got to feeling that riders like me were not a priority to the AMA. I had a membership in the past, but no more...
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: Arizona Wayne on July 05, 2016, 02:23:38 PM
The AMA screwed up American Motorcycle racing something awful. The last Class C event I attended had all the pageantry of a small church fair and the rules were skewed so much in HD's favor that the event rivaled professional wrestling for authenticity. Then there is roadracing...the once prestigeous Daytona 200 is now a 600cc Superbike race that serves as a backdrop for Sturgis-like strip shows and burnout contests.

Add in the fact that they have taken to supporting causes at the ridiculous extreme of the sport, and I got to feeling that riders like me were not a priority to the AMA. I had a membership in the past, but no more...


The AMA went from superbikes to 600s on the Daytona 200 because racing tires were coming apart and riders were getting hurt and they were afraid possibly some would get killed. In other words, the AMA was concerned about the safety of the riders.

Then the AMA handed over the roadracing to DMG and Bill France COMPLETELY screwed that up being a stock car racing guy.

Now MotoAmerica is under the good hands of Wayne Rainey and road racing is again good with WSBK rules.

Now AMA only operates amateur racing and let's the pros run the professional racing.
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: Rusnak_322 on July 05, 2016, 03:35:02 PM
AMA sucks.
I had to be a member when I was racing. It got me nothing but the ability to enter races and a crappy magazine.

I hate the no helmet agenda. Don't want to wear a helmet? Fine by me, but I don't want my dues going to lobbying to change those laws. And you cant tell me that insurance isn't more expensive in states that don't require helmets. it is just logical that they would jack them up.

And like others have said - they screwed up roadracing something awful. I loves AMA superbike and Mid-Ohio would get 50,000 people for race day. Now there are more racers then fans.
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: ITSec on July 05, 2016, 03:59:08 PM
I'm not antagonistic towards the AMA, I just don't see much value in their offerings. As others have noted, they use member funds for some advocacy I can't agree with, and don't work on issues that are important to me (but maybe not to their members). AMA seems too aligned with ABATE / MRF and similar groups; I prefer a balance of rider rights and responsibility that has a bit more weight on the responsibility side of the scale.

If the AMA were to do more to support the MSF approach and less the MRF, I might join again.
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: vf84pc on July 05, 2016, 06:24:05 PM
I agree the Datone 200 is now a side show and  racing in the US is considered a joke by  the Europeans. Flat track racing was a huge sport in the 60's and 70's  now the only track near the  North East is Lima Ohio.
I always felt they tilted the rules toward Japanese bimes, but maybe they changed to HD.
The mag was oka but they use the same old line to sighn you up, just like the NRA .With all the money they take I. Why is it no law gets passed or changed? No money In the solution only the problem.
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: Lannis on July 05, 2016, 06:32:49 PM
They have had their ups and downs over the years, but overall, I think it is a good organization. 

I have been a Life-AMA member for many years...and motorcyclists need a voice in Washington and among the states to further protect our right to RIDE, so in that light, they serve a worthy purpose (IMHO) :thumb: :cool:

I'm sort of the same way.  Besides, if you re-up automatically every year, you get the full breakdown service.   Never had to use it for a bike but have used it 3 times for the junk cars I used to drive .... !   Also good for discounts at a few motels, like AAA and AARP are, neither of which I belong to.

Lannis
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: K250 on July 05, 2016, 09:09:17 PM
I was a member for many years, but over time the AMA has dropped motorcycle activities I was interested in to concentrate on the towing and motel discount business.  In the end, I dropped AMA and jointed AAA because AAA seemed better for that.  Now, I don't carry either - modern motorcycles and cars are so reliable. 
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: LowRyter on July 05, 2016, 10:52:46 PM
Ya know?  If they ever did things that helped most riders, maybe we wouldn't ask "what the hell good are they?".

Everyone here has been asking to make it legal to "filter" lanes through congested traffic.  Right now, only Cali does this.  I'd say if the AMA's heads weren't in the wrong place, they might make a difference. 
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: sign216 on July 06, 2016, 07:13:49 AM
An earlier poster compared the AMA to the NRA, as being another lobby group. 
I'm not sure that's a fair comparison, as I feel the NRA actually produces results for their people.

I like the AMA's stance on E15, but compared to the power of the corn farmers, they have no chance. 

I'm a member mainly for the road service, but the membership is expensive, and with the rumors of AMA internal corruption, I'm on the fence everytime I renew.
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: Wayne Orwig on July 06, 2016, 07:32:01 AM
Towing service, who cares. Why do people prepay for towing? Goofy.

When my rear wheel bearing failed in BF North Carolina a couple of weeks back, I walked to the nearest house. They called their buddy Joe Bob with a roll back. He towed me into town for $55. A towing service would NOT have called Joe Bob, they would call the big name company 50 miles away that they contract with. And that company would only tow me in the wrong direction AFTER a 3 hour wait.
Years ago I was with a group of people when one had a breakdown near Topton NC. He had a towing service, but his phone didn't work. He rode off on another bike to get phone service. A LONG time later he returned and said they would only tow him 75 miles NORTH. We needed to go 75 miles SOUTH. He rode off again to try to talk them into a southern direction tow. While he was gone, I laid the CB750 over on the side in the ditch, pulled the side cover, and repaired the loose nut inside the clutch hub. That was a fiasco. He finally returned, and again the tow company would ONLY move his bike 150 miles from home. 
When you prepay for towing, you have to conform to THEIR rules. But you have no clue what the situation will be when you breakdown.
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: Lannis on July 06, 2016, 04:34:12 PM
Towing service, who cares. Why do people prepay for towing? Goofy.

When my rear wheel bearing failed in BF North Carolina a couple of weeks back, I walked to the nearest house. They called their buddy Joe Bob with a roll back. He towed me into town for $55. A towing service would NOT have called Joe Bob, they would call the big name company 50 miles away that they contract with. And that company would only tow me in the wrong direction AFTER a 3 hour wait.
Years ago I was with a group of people when one had a breakdown near Topton NC. He had a towing service, but his phone didn't work. He rode off on another bike to get phone service. A LONG time later he returned and said they would only tow him 75 miles NORTH. We needed to go 75 miles SOUTH. He rode off again to try to talk them into a southern direction tow. While he was gone, I laid the CB750 over on the side in the ditch, pulled the side cover, and repaired the loose nut inside the clutch hub. That was a fiasco. He finally returned, and again the tow company would ONLY move his bike 150 miles from home. 
When you prepay for towing, you have to conform to THEIR rules. But you have no clue what the situation will be when you breakdown.

It's never come out anything but positive for me .... and it can come out the other way if some bubba with an eye to the well-heeled biker gets his bike under your control.   

Lannis
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: motogearhead on July 06, 2016, 08:43:59 PM
Valuable tool for me.  Been a member since the seventies.  Initial membership was for AMA competition only...but these days, I appreciate and support the AMA's voice in DC in support of all motorcyclist's rights.  Can't help but wonder how much more effective they could be if all motorcyclists we're members.
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: LowRyter on July 06, 2016, 09:19:49 PM
the only motorcycle rights at issue now is lane splitting and filtering.

And it's not on their radar. Sorry, they are pretty clueless.  (Remember I said the same thing about ABATE)

Maybe E15 scares more people?  I can choose the gas I want to buy, thank you very much.
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: Rich A on July 06, 2016, 09:32:03 PM
Towing service, who cares. Why do people prepay for towing? Goofy.


My story: I was in a Dodge Ram that broke down on the interstate (turned out to be a bad fuel pump). I couldn't get to the shoulder--the truck literally died on the interstate. I put the flashers on and walked over to a safe place and called AMA; they arranged for a tow vehicle. In 10-15 mins, the tow vehicle showed up and pushed the pickup to where it could safely be hooked up, and from there it was towed it to a shop.

If I didn't have AMA, I would have had to search for a tow service while on the side of the road using my phone--all while the pickup is stuck on I25, so getting the thing off the interstate quickly obviously was desirable. Honestly, I wouldn't have been surprised if the truck had been hit from behind, and at freeway speeds that easily could have been fatal.

No charge for the tow. For the price of dues, I thought that was money well spent.

Rich A
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: Rusnak_322 on July 07, 2016, 08:33:33 AM


Maybe E15 scares more people?  I can choose the gas I want to buy, thank you very much.

I cannot choose the gas I want to buy. per the www.pure-gas.org site, there are only 81 places in the state that sell ethanol-free gas. the closest to me is 10 miles away and they only have 87 octane.

there are none where we ride the most, we have two Ducati's with plastic tanks that have had big issues with ethanol expansion (I am on the third fuel tank). Also, my Monster only goes 85 miles on a tank before the low fuel light comes on, so we fill up multiple times a trip.

If the AMA had any clout to be able to go against the big farmers, I would happily join.
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: oldbike54 on July 07, 2016, 08:39:36 AM
 Are they using figs to produce ethanol these days ? :laugh:

 Seriously , maybe the manufacturers shouldn't make bikes out of plastic . No fan of ethanol , but plastic gas tanks are cheap , should only be on dirt bikes .

 Dusty
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: sign216 on July 07, 2016, 02:02:56 PM
Are they using figs to produce ethanol these days ? :laugh:

 Seriously , maybe the manufacturers shouldn't make bikes out of plastic . No fan of ethanol , but plastic gas tanks are cheap , should only be on dirt bikes .

 Dusty

Dusty,
Don't blame the tanks.  That's like blaming a crime victim for the crime.

Blame the corn lobby for changing our gasoline to a less productive blend.
Joe
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: oldbike54 on July 07, 2016, 02:12:23 PM
Dusty,
Don't blame the tanks.  That's like blaming a crime victim for the crime.

Blame the corn lobby for changing our gasoline to a less productive blend.
Joe

 Oh I do , but still , a plastic tank on an expensive new motorbike ...

 Dusty
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: Rusnak_322 on July 07, 2016, 02:56:55 PM
Oh I do , but still , a plastic tank on an expensive new motorbike ...

 Dusty

Plastic is actually a very good material to use to make a tank that contains non-ethanol fuel. It is cheaper than metal, highly durable against dents, and it is possible to make in shapes not easily made in metal.

The finish is as good as any metal tank. I had an Aprilia Mille, a Ducati 1098 and a Ducati Monster S4Rs with plastic tanks. In Europe and other parts of the world that have the sense to stay away from alcohol fuel, there are no issues. But ethanol is also very damaging to other parts of a vehicle that were not designed to cope with it. there are big problems with vintage cars, bikes and boats. Also, the fuel will not last anywhere near the length of time that alcohol free fuels used to last.
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: Rusnak_322 on July 07, 2016, 03:04:39 PM
http://autoweek.com/article/car-life/jay-leno-hates-ethanol


Here is the cadwell coating coming out of my Monster tank - this was a new tank that never had fuel in it and the Ducati dealer installed the coating.


(http://thumb.ibb.co/dv6f8v/IMG_9859.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dv6f8v)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/iCJ5aa/IMG_9866.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iCJ5aa)

 
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: Arizona Wayne on July 07, 2016, 05:58:44 PM
I have 5 MCs/maxi-scooters that have non-metal gas tanks and none of them have had any issues with the fuel I put in them.   I just returned from a 2,400 mile trip on my MuZ w/plastic tank thru 5 states with no fuel problems.  :undecided:  That doesn't mean I like ethanol in our fuel, I don't.  :evil:
Title: Re: The AMA - a valuable voice or a crooked tool?
Post by: sign216 on July 08, 2016, 04:54:47 AM
I have 5 MCs/maxi-scooters that have non-metal gas tanks and none of them have had any issues with the fuel I put in them.   I just returned from a 2,400 mile trip on my MuZ w/plastic tank thru 5 states with no fuel problems.  :undecided:  That doesn't mean I like ethanol in our fuel, I don't.  :evil:

Wayne,
My point is that here in the Northeast, we don't have a choice.  All the pump gas ethanol, and some pumps are E15.

At least in Quebec Shell super premium is pure gas, but south of that border it's all ethanol. 

I'm just asking to be able to choose.
Joe