Author Topic: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States  (Read 17310 times)

Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #60 on: November 11, 2018, 12:29:19 PM »
These are the two W800s that I would have wanted brought to the states.





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Offline ohiorider

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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #61 on: November 11, 2018, 02:22:34 PM »
These are the two W800s that I would have wanted brought to the states.






Love the orange/silver with bikini fairing!
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Offline jas67

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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #62 on: November 11, 2018, 04:30:09 PM »
These are the two W800s that I would have wanted brought to the states.







The orange one is clearly trying to recall the R90S.

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Offline oilhed

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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #63 on: November 11, 2018, 04:52:59 PM »
Yes, but according to the press releases this is not the W650/W800 we know. 90 % of the engine are new according them, and a new frame is mentioned. If we are unlucky this is another 270 degrees twin. One should leave that to real V-twins and build parallel twins instead.
Is the 270
Just for the sound?  Like a narrow v twin?  Cuz I thought I read the 270 had an advantage over 360 in power delivery. I personally like my twins L or flat.
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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #63 on: November 11, 2018, 04:52:59 PM »

Offline jas67

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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #64 on: November 11, 2018, 04:59:14 PM »
Is the 270
Just for the sound?  Like a narrow v twin?  Cuz I thought I read the 270 had an advantage over 360 in power delivery. I personally like my twins L or flat.

The 270 has the same power delivery as a 90 degree V twin (L-twin).

It also always has a piston in motion, and one is at maximum velocity when the other is stopped.   360 and 180 parallel twins, and opposed twins the pistons are both stopped at the same time.

As a result the 270 (also called cross plane) and the 90 degree V-twin both have a relatively constant kinetic energy within the rotating assembly + the rods and pistons.  Where the 180 and 360 parallel twins, as well as the boxer twins the piston and rods go from zero kinetic engery to a lot and back to zero.    Thus causes torsional vibration in the crank that the cross plan parallel twin and 90 degree V-twin don't have (or at least don't have as much).
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Offline ohiorider

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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #65 on: November 11, 2018, 07:40:42 PM »
The orange one is clearly trying to recall the R90S.

Yes it is, and Gawd  love 'em for doing it!
« Last Edit: November 11, 2018, 07:41:04 PM by ohiorider »
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Offline fossil

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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #66 on: November 11, 2018, 10:30:23 PM »
The 270 has the same power delivery as a 90 degree V twin (L-twin).

It also always has a piston in motion, and one is at maximum velocity when the other is stopped.   360 and 180 parallel twins, and opposed twins the pistons are both stopped at the same time.

As a result the 270 (also called cross plane) and the 90 degree V-twin both have a relatively constant kinetic energy within the rotating assembly + the rods and pistons.  Where the 180 and 360 parallel twins, as well as the boxer twins the piston and rods go from zero kinetic engery to a lot and back to zero.    Thus causes torsional vibration in the crank that the cross plan parallel twin and 90 degree V-twin don't have (or at least don't have as much).
This is all clear and understood. But a motorcycle is not a machine you buy because it is a reasonable thing to do. At least our favourite bikes are here because we want to feel the engine. Because we want to ride a mechanical, archaic thing. The same in my opinion applies to everybody who rides a Harley, a retro-styled bike of any provenience, an Enfield Bullet (the last of course does not apply to most riders in India). And the best sounding bike I have ever heard (and ridden) was a Norton Commando 750 Fastback with Roadster pipes. When I want a perfect quiet running motor I take the Honda CB 1100. When I want the slightly rough way of a 270° engine I do what I do, I ride a Guzzi and contemplate Ducati and Aprilia.

But thats only me.
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Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #67 on: November 12, 2018, 08:34:32 AM »
Is the 270
Just for the sound?  Like a narrow v twin?  Cuz I thought I read the 270 had an advantage over 360 in power delivery. I personally like my twins L or flat.

When I was looking at the Bonneville lineup a few years ago the Bonnie and the Thruxton were 360 and the Scrambler was 270.

The Scrambler made more torque down low, but the Bonnie/Thruxton had higher peak horsepower. 

I much preferred the Scrambler layout.  It had a better 'feel' and more character.
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Offline ohiorider

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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #68 on: November 12, 2018, 02:56:42 PM »
In 2006, my good riding buddy Tom and I decided to take a ride from Cleveland Ohio out West.  We both had larger bikes at the time, but we both had some saddle time on our Bonnevilles and thought 'why not?  I fab'd up some mounts for a set of E21 bags I already owned, installed a rear rack.  Tom's bike was already ready to travel.  Several days into the ride, we were outside of Taos, New Mexico, when we took this short video of Tom's Bonnie, equipped with TORs (Triumph Off Road) mufflers.  Nice, and not nearly as loud as so many of the aftermarket pipes. 

Here's one example of why I like vertical twins with 360 degree cranks.  The video is blurry (it had been through a few conversions before making it onto YouTube,) but the audio is ok.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbQBFtDOK5M
« Last Edit: November 12, 2018, 02:57:27 PM by ohiorider »
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Offline jas67

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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #69 on: November 12, 2018, 06:07:52 PM »
That is odd as the 360 single pin crank is like two singles running together, maybe a bit more vibes but singles are known for torque "down low".

Sort of.  They do not fire together, but on alternate revolutions.

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Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #70 on: November 12, 2018, 07:26:16 PM »
Oh man that "character" thing! (subjective..no?)

That is odd as the 360 single pin crank is like two singles running together, maybe a bit more vibes but singles are known for torque "down low".

Probably the one single thing about the HD's popularity is the sound...blip...blip!! And for some of us?? that 360 firing order is the business.

"Live long and prosper" V....
:-)

From CW magazine:  https://www.cycleworld.com/2015/08/20/triumph-900-scrambler-motorcycle-review-road-test-numbers-photos-specifications#page-2

Quote
First the engine, an 865cc dohc eight-valve air-cooled vertical-Twin, has been revamped for a lower, flatter torque curve, with a loss of peak horsepower. Triumph switched from a 360- to a 270-degree crankshaft, as used also in the Bonneville America and Speedmaster, and the engine pumps out just 47 horsepower at 6400 rpm and 44 foot-pounds of torque at 5100 rpm. By comparison, the Thruxton (Triumph’s hottest Twin) makes 57 hp at 7200 rpm and 46 ft.-lb. of torque at 6400 rpm.
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Offline DaSwami

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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #71 on: November 13, 2018, 12:01:21 AM »
Not to nitpick, but those cycle world numbers are wrong.  The classic fuel injected scram makes 59 hp (6800 rpm) and 50 ft lb torque (4750 rpm) at 507 lbs wet weight.  It's a pretty revvy motor that in my experience likes to hang out in the 5000 rpm range.


Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #72 on: November 13, 2018, 07:37:59 AM »
Not to nitpick, but those cycle world numbers are wrong.  The classic fuel injected scram makes 59 hp (6800 rpm) and 50 ft lb torque (4750 rpm) at 507 lbs wet weight.  It's a pretty revvy motor that in my experience likes to hang out in the 5000 rpm range.

Your source?  On the Dyno at the rear wheel?  Published from Triumph at the crank?

I want concerned with the numbers, just that the torque curve was where I like to ride.  I guess triumph agreed with my thoughts since all the new classics are 270 degree cranks.
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Offline jas67

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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #73 on: November 13, 2018, 08:57:59 AM »
The W650 and W800 motors have a counter-balancer to offset the vibes from the pistons going up and down together, so, the vibes are pretty minimal.
I would think that a 270 degree parallel twin would still need a counter-balancer.    Yes, the torsional vibration is less (than a 360), but, it won't have the inherent good primary and secondary balance of a 90 degree V-twin.
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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #74 on: November 13, 2018, 09:07:14 AM »
They have to stick w/it so have gone to extraordinary measures to isolate the vibration from the rider. (V rod good example)

The V-Rod has a 60 degree angle and a counter-balancer...
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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #75 on: November 13, 2018, 09:08:32 AM »
The 270 degree cranks were not done for power but for SOUND (like a 90 degree V twin ala ducati or guzzi) and a bit less vibration.

A parallel twin with a 360 degree crank can be tuned w/just as much power as a 270 degree. But w/both pistons moving together the vibration can get a little intense.

The HD w/45 degree cylinders are awful in this respect but is done mainly 'cause its a Harley! They have to stick w/it so have gone to extraordinary measures to isolate the vibration from the rider. (V rod good example)

Norton did the same thing w/isolastic frame.

To each his....

Beating a dead horse!

Good post, EXCEPT that the V-rod is a 60 degree V-twin so I imagine its vibration characteristics are a bit different. I mean, I guess it's knife/fork connecting rod too and vibrates enough that it is counterbalanced. But it's a different animal in so many ways I don't know if I'd use it as the example.

Now a Harley M8 in a touring platform that uses both rubbermounts AND a counterbalancer, or the new Softail M8 that uses dual counterbalancers, those are better examples to me.

EDIT - late to the party I see...
« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 09:19:05 AM by Kev m »
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Offline kingoffleece

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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #76 on: November 13, 2018, 09:16:23 AM »
I'll say it again.  According to Triumph statements from factory many guest riders were exposed to 360, 180, and 270 cranks.  Triumph was trying to determine what customers wanted.  According to Triumph, the overwhelming majority preferred the 270.
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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #77 on: November 13, 2018, 09:57:45 AM »
I'll say it again.  According to Triumph statements from factory many guest riders were exposed to 360, 180, and 270 cranks.  Triumph was trying to determine what customers wanted.  According to Triumph, the overwhelming majority preferred the 270.

Same with the new Royal Enfield 650s.
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Offline Gustavo

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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #78 on: November 13, 2018, 10:50:24 AM »
Your source?  On the Dyno at the rear wheel?  Published from Triumph at the crank?


MCN tested one in April 2015.  Their measured it at 50 HP, 45 lb-ft and 515 lbs wet.

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Offline MGrego

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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #79 on: November 13, 2018, 11:46:23 AM »
Since we are discussing the sound, -- I can tell you my 360 parallel twin sounds glorious with these Arrow exhausts I recently fitted !!




Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #80 on: November 13, 2018, 12:21:02 PM »
I used the V rod 'cause it doesn't have that 90 degree(firing order) sound. I've heard several comments from HD folks....I agree.

I have taken one of the 114 inchers for a ride w/feuling mods (131hp 123 ft lbs torque) and its very fast (hold on to something acceleration). Ha!
Still sounds like a Harley! Some (majority) like it.

 I like the 360 degree sound and the younger generation have not grown up w/that and prefer the Duc sound (and Guzzi).

As the world turns, I'll have mine and they can have theirs...

:-)

The Kawasaki 650 twins are 180 / 360 and they sound like thumpers when an aftermarket exhaust is put into the system. 

When I test rode the '14 Triumph classic bikes I didn't even know the engine in the Scrambler was different going into the rides.  I mentioned to the salesman how much better the Scrambler was and he told me it had the 270 degree crank.  My FZ-07 had the 270 degree crank and is such a sweet engine.  If they could put that engine in a bike that looks just like a 1970s Yamaha 650 but with modern components I would be interested.

The V7III Carbon definitely scratches the itch for that type of bike though so probably won't be doing anything similar that competes against the V7.   I might consider another KLX250S in fuel injected if I find a discounted one and get the dealer to set the sag on the rear shock for me as part of the purchase.  Yes, you have to remove the shock to adjust the sag! 
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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #81 on: November 13, 2018, 12:26:06 PM »
I might consider another KLX250S in fuel injected if I find a discounted one and get the dealer to set the sag on the rear shock for me as part of the purchase.  Yes, you have to remove the shock to adjust the sag!

Do you?

I don't know how different the current KX250 is from the KLX, but you don't have to remove the shock (though you might as well have to).

On the KX250 you have remove:

If the rear spring length must be adjusted, remove the following components for access:

Seat
Side Covers
Muffler
Sub Frame


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Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #82 on: November 13, 2018, 12:36:45 PM »
Do you?

I don't know how different the current KX250 is from the KLX, but you don't have to remove the shock (though you might as well have to).

On the KX250 you have remove:

If the rear spring length must be adjusted, remove the following components for access:

Seat
Side Covers
Muffler
Sub Frame

Just trying to simplify the post since it was off topic.   :grin:
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Offline DaSwami

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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #83 on: November 16, 2018, 07:27:45 AM »
Talked to my local dealer and they ordered one of the new W800.  Said the "Street" version was not orderable.  Salesman opined that the Cafe version won't do well here in the states.  He was open to doing a bar swap prior to purchase if that would seal the deal.  Hmmmmmmm

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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #84 on: November 16, 2018, 07:51:45 AM »
Talked to my local dealer and they ordered one of the new W800.  Said the "Street" version was not orderable.  Salesman opined that the Cafe version won't do well here in the states.  He was open to doing a bar swap prior to purchase if that would seal the deal.  Hmmmmmmm

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We're gonna take a serious look at it when it comes in and compare it to the incoming new Street Twin.
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Offline jas67

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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #85 on: November 16, 2018, 08:42:15 AM »
We're gonna take a serious look at it when it comes in and compare it to the incoming new Street Twin.

 :thumb:
If you get one, I'll need to ride my W650 out and do a side-by-side comparison ride.
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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #86 on: November 16, 2018, 08:54:33 AM »
:thumb:
If you get one, I'll need to ride my W650 out and do a side-by-side comparison ride.

 :thumb:
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Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #87 on: November 16, 2018, 09:37:28 AM »
Talked to my local dealer and they ordered one of the new W800.  Said the "Street" version was not orderable.  Salesman opined that the Cafe version won't do well here in the states.  He was open to doing a bar swap prior to purchase if that would seal the deal.  Hmmmmmmm

I talked with my local multibrand dealer and he said the Kawasaki was overpriced.
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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #88 on: November 16, 2018, 09:51:10 AM »
I talked with my local multibrand dealer and he said the Kawasaki was overpriced.

Multi brand dealers have a unique perspective that is likely a result of their market segment.

I remember a conversation with my local multi-brand shortly after the T120, Thruxton R etc. came out.

This place carries all of JAPanInc., Polaris, Sea-Doo/Ski-Doo, Ural, and Triumph (and at the time still had Vic and RE).

Anyway, his customers want the fastest they can get for the cheapest, they just don't GET most of the Triumphs, especially the Thruxton R for the price.

That said if you compare this Kawi to Triumph, Guzzi, Harley, you see it's priced to THAT market.

Kawi - $9799
Old Street Twin (no dual clocks, no cafe features etc.) - $9100
New Street Twin (TBA, bet it's damn close to the Kawi)
Street Cup - $10,500
T100 - $10,400
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Offline jas67

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Re: Kawasaki W800 Coming to the States
« Reply #89 on: November 16, 2018, 09:58:26 AM »
It'd be interesting to find out if there are any cast wheels from other models that will fit the W800.

Even if they could be found, since the new W800 has ABS, there might be some fabrication needing to be done to mount the tone rings, and or modifications to the mountings for the sensors.

While I do think the W800 looks right with wire wheels, I also appreciate having tubeless tires.

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