Author Topic: 1977 Le Mans running and on the road  (Read 116916 times)

Offline SED

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #390 on: February 21, 2018, 11:43:27 PM »
Get well soon!  And may spring come early for you.  Beautiful work.
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #391 on: February 24, 2018, 11:19:27 AM »
Get well soon!  And may spring come early for you.  Beautiful work.

Thanks Sed, still fighting the bug, bronchitis and now a big dose of antibiotics, slowing me down on my projects!

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #392 on: March 12, 2018, 10:19:26 AM »
My painter finished the paint repair to the gas tank that got chipped transporting the bike to and from the bike show in January, looks great

I removed the exhaust and painted over the easily scratched ceramic coating with a very high heat black low-gloss rattle can, I think the ceramic will work as a great primer and dissipate the heat while the top coat will be more durable to scratches and can be recoated if necessary



Weather is starting to get better, spring may actually be on the way and I will be out of excuses for not firing the bike up ....

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #393 on: March 14, 2018, 10:43:24 PM »
I painted the exhaust with very high temperature paint, reinstalling the exhaust I wrapped the parts with rags to prevent scratches,



The low gloss paint over the ceramic coating looks much better to me






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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #393 on: March 14, 2018, 10:43:24 PM »

Online balvenie

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #394 on: March 15, 2018, 12:29:53 AM »
Looks very Good :grin:
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Offline TRw1

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #395 on: March 15, 2018, 08:56:02 AM »
Yes, very nice look!

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #396 on: March 18, 2018, 05:42:31 PM »
Today was the day the bike was to start .... except it didn't



The kill switch is intermittent, just trouble, spark, then no spark, I think I need to give up on this switch and install a universal start / kill switch.

Carbs float heights and perhaps my test gas bottle is too high in the air with too much head pressure feeding the carbs, but I was not getting fuel past the float needle. Lowered the gas bottle to reduce head pressure and fiddled with the float heights but then the battery was just too weak to crank the engine over so back on the charger.

I need to read up on the electronic ignition and start over with static timing again just to be sure I got that right.

Fiddling .....

Offline swooshdave

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #397 on: March 18, 2018, 07:18:29 PM »
So is that a Harbor Freight (or Canadian equivalent) with an air cylinder? Is that a mod?
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #398 on: March 18, 2018, 08:03:56 PM »
So is that a Harbor Freight (or Canadian equivalent) with an air cylinder? Is that a mod?

Yes its a Harbor Fright / Princess Auto - air over hydraulic bench, I bought it used a couple years ago for $300, pretty happy with it.

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #399 on: March 19, 2018, 12:20:28 PM »
The kill switch is intermittent, just trouble, spark, then no spark, I think I need to give up on this switch and install a universal start / kill switch.

Have you checked with Harper's for the kill/start switch? I bought a NOS signal switch from them a while back, maybe they have that one too.
Charlie

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #400 on: March 19, 2018, 12:51:44 PM »
Have you checked with Harper's for the kill/start switch? I bought a NOS signal switch from them a while back, maybe they have that one too.

Thanks for this

I will check

Jim

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #401 on: May 06, 2018, 10:10:40 PM »
I have had the LeMans carbs returned following an inspection by Wolfgang Haerter, the Laverda and Dellorto guru, other than resetting the floats all was OK.

Installed the carbs, re set the valve gap and hooked up a battery. 1st trial was a no show, I struggled to get the bike to fire, it really wanted to but no ignition. So in frustration I pulled out the Dyna III (it was a used one I had laying around so I can't be certain it was functioning) and installed another distributor with a fresh set of points and condensers.

It fire right up and idled fairly smooth. I balanced the carbs and set the timing. I let it run through about a half gallon of gas. It was quite hard to start when hot, mixture screws out 1 1/24 turns, choke cable have slack, all stock carb setting and jets, plugs are fouled. Fresh pugs and it restated just fine.

I went at it again on Sunday and once again it fired right up but when hot it was hard to re start. I retorqued the heads once more and re set the valve gap, changed out the oil and filter. After a lot of balancing and strobe timing I think I have it as good as I can get it but the plugs are still quite black and the mixture screws are out 1 turn.

I am guessing the idle jets are too big??

Here are some poor videos I took today, I apologize for the quality.

https://youtu.be/Nx1ELCo7kQ0

https://youtu.be/Gn8fN5kEejM

Offline Groover

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #402 on: May 07, 2018, 07:44:56 AM »
I have had the LeMans carbs returned following an inspection by Wolfgang Haerter, the Laverda and Dellorto guru, other than resetting the floats all was OK.

Installed the carbs, re set the valve gap and hooked up a battery. 1st trial was a no show, I struggled to get the bike to fire, it really wanted to but no ignition. So in frustration I pulled out the Dyna III (it was a used one I had laying around so I can't be certain it was functioning) and installed another distributor with a fresh set of points and condensers.

It fire right up and idled fairly smooth. I balanced the carbs and set the timing. I let it run through about a half gallon of gas. It was quite hard to start when hot, mixture screws out 1 1/24 turns, choke cable have slack, all stock carb setting and jets, plugs are fouled. Fresh pugs and it restated just fine.

I went at it again on Sunday and once again it fired right up but when hot it was hard to re start. I retorqued the heads once more and re set the valve gap, changed out the oil and filter. After a lot of balancing and strobe timing I think I have it as good as I can get it but the plugs are still quite black and the mixture screws are out 1 turn.

I am guessing the idle jets are too big??

Here are some poor videos I took today, I apologize for the quality.

https://youtu.be/Nx1ELCo7kQ0

https://youtu.be/Gn8fN5kEejM

It's alive! I thought the hard to start when hot is typically because it may be running hot and the fuel vaporizes from the intake path. I know you are seeing it rich after checking the plugs, so that doesn't match. Will it start quicker when hot if you activate the choke(s). Also, valve gaps may be too tight? Be sure they are set at the correct TDC interval.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 07:46:47 AM by Groover »
1981 Moto Guzzi V1000G5
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE, a
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE, b
1980 Piaggio Vespa P200E
1980 Piaggio Vespa P125X
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1980 Vespa SI Moped
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #403 on: May 07, 2018, 09:32:50 AM »
It's alive! I thought the hard to start when hot is typically because it may be running hot and the fuel vaporizes from the intake path. I know you are seeing it rich after checking the plugs, so that doesn't match. Will it start quicker when hot if you activate the choke(s). Also, valve gaps may be too tight? Be sure they are set at the correct TDC interval.

It will start when hot with a quick use of the choke, valves are set at TDC compression. Its running real nice, no hesitation on throttle, carb balance sticks tracking evenly throughout throttle range. Problem is sooty plugs even with mixture screws turned out only 1 turn from full stop.

Offline Rick4003

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #404 on: May 07, 2018, 10:47:56 AM »
Hi Jim, great to hear that you have gotten it up and running. How is the weather now? Are you able to do some test rides on it?

I'm going to give myself a lambda analysis system for my birthday here on Sunday. It takes a lot of the guess work out of the carb tuning. You will have to weld some bungs in the exhaust or use it with an bracket for the end of the exhaust pipe. Could be a solution to fine tuning your carbs. I know you can read the plugs the old way, smell the exhaust, check the pipe for soot and probably many other tricks to tell if it is rich or lean. In my mind a lambda probe is going to take out much of the guess work and speed up the process. And you can also read the mix all way way up the rev/throttle range under load.

I'm planning to stick some tape on my throttle handle and mark out all the positions from zero to full throttle in 1/8 steps. It should give some idea on which circuit of the carbs that is in operation at that moment.

I think I'll go with the AFR500v2 as it has gotten some good reviews and has scored well in tests. C5 ignition also uses and recommends that model.

Oh and your Lemans looks great! Hope you'll make some riding videos of it [emoji4]
Hope you get the mix figured out!

-Ulrik

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Offline Groover

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #405 on: May 07, 2018, 10:52:35 AM »
Sounds like it's pretty close to me, I wouldn't be too concerned with the plugs like that. Plug chops are done at high engine speed, so they'll always be a little wet I think when running in the garage setting. Though, I could be very wrong on that!

Anyway, just to get by for now, I would shut down the bike pulling the choke right before turning off the key/switch, that way it should start up right away even if shut down hot as it would leave a rich path.

If you want to mess with it more, then I would lower needle #2 a notch to reduce your low/mid fuel, and open/unscrew #58 another half turn, making 1.5 turns out to richen your idle path. Maybe that will help. Of course, wait for someone else to jump in here, but that's what I would try as a starting point from this point before going too deep into atomizers and such.









« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 11:01:12 AM by Groover »
1981 Moto Guzzi V1000G5
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE, a
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE, b
1980 Piaggio Vespa P200E
1980 Piaggio Vespa P125X
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1980 Vespa SI Moped
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #406 on: May 07, 2018, 05:49:26 PM »
Hi Jim, great to hear that you have gotten it up and running. How is the weather now? Are you able to do some test rides on it?

-Ulrik

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Summer has finally arrived, going to get the Le Mans out on the road this week, its not registered so I have to sneak around the block ain the evenings!

Sounds like you are on the right tool for tuning, please keep me posted.

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #407 on: May 07, 2018, 05:52:19 PM »
Sounds like it's pretty close to me, I wouldn't be too concerned with the plugs like that. Plug chops are done at high engine speed, so they'll always be a little wet I think when running in the garage setting. Though, I could be very wrong on that!

Anyway, just to get by for now, I would shut down the bike pulling the choke right before turning off the key/switch, that way it should start up right away even if shut down hot as it would leave a rich path.

If you want to mess with it more, then I would lower needle #2 a notch to reduce your low/mid fuel, and open/unscrew #58 another half turn, making 1.5 turns out to richen your idle path. Maybe that will help. Of course, wait for someone else to jump in here, but that's what I would try as a starting point from this point before going too deep into atomizers and such.











I spoke with Wolfgang Haerter today, he tells me the same carbs on the Laverda 750 acted similar and were typically hard to start hot without a dab of choke. He suggested dropping the idle jet down to a 58 or 56 and give it a try, jets are on order. I like your idea about shutting down with the choke on, will try that as well. I may try dropping the needle if these first steps don't sort it out.

Thanks

Jim

Offline Rick4003

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #408 on: May 07, 2018, 09:20:11 PM »


Summer has finally arrived, going to get the Le Mans out on the road this week, its not registered so I have to sneak around the block ain the evenings!

Sounds like you are on the right tool for tuning, please keep me posted.

Sounds good, how much do you need to go through to register it up there? Would be more fun to take it out on some proper rides [emoji4]

I will order the afr500 this week and hopefully I can get some time in dk to work on the bike next month or so. I will keep my build thread updated.

- Ulrik

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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #409 on: May 07, 2018, 10:29:34 PM »
I found a pair of 57 idle jets in my Dellorto stash, swapped out the 60's

I installed the gas tank seat and side covers, poured a gallon of gas in he tank and hit the road for the 1st time with a plate off another of my bikes. I road around the neighbourhood for about 20 minutes, got it up to 3rd and hit the brakes hard a couple times, it sure stops better than my V7 Sport.

I pulled back into the shop and pulled the plugs, much better. I think it was a bit too lean and maybe the timing just off a bit on full advance, seemed to lug a bit on full throttle, re set the timing with the strobe and went for another spin. Better, opened up the mixture screws a wee bit, plugs look pretty good. Went over the bike fasteners tightening everything again.

Only thing that went amiss was the fairing came loose and began to rattle, got that fixed.

I think its about a close I will get it without a dyno run.


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Re: 1977 Le Mans running and on the road
« Reply #410 on: May 08, 2018, 04:03:47 AM »
Well done Jim :grin: :thumb:
Oz
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Offline Groover

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Re: 1977 Le Mans running and on the road
« Reply #411 on: May 08, 2018, 08:12:54 AM »
Sounds like you have completed a successful restoration!  :bow:
1981 Moto Guzzi V1000G5
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE, a
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE, b
1980 Piaggio Vespa P200E
1980 Piaggio Vespa P125X
1980 Vespa Grande Moped
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Offline Psychopasta

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Re: 1977 Le Mans running and on the road
« Reply #412 on: May 08, 2018, 09:18:07 PM »
Congratulations Jim! This has been a real pleasure to follow  :bow:

- Mark
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Honda Goldwing 2019
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans running and on the road
« Reply #413 on: May 10, 2018, 10:03:16 AM »
Congratulations Jim! This has been a real pleasure to follow  :bow:

- Mark

Thanks Mark

I have been riding around the neighbourhood at night as I continue to fine tune it. Sorting out the usual little niggles, no leaks from the engine or transmission or final drive, it is much more responsive than my V7 Sport and the brakes are much better than the 4LS on the Sport. The clip on riding position gets some getting used to but its actually not too aggressive a riding position. I got it up to 4th gear on a long stretch of road in the light commercial district roads around my shop, great fun! I now realize why these are so popular.

Offline Bucky

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Re: 1977 Le Mans running and on the road
« Reply #414 on: May 11, 2018, 08:02:46 AM »
 :bow:

Congrats on the final product! Impressive.

Your detailed build threads are so enjoyable to read, and very informative for this Geezer Noob.
Thanks so much for putting the effort in posting these threads. You have no idea how valuable they are to noobs like me. Again, thanks for taking the time to document this build. I learned a lot.
1973 Eldorado

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans running and on the road
« Reply #415 on: May 11, 2018, 06:16:56 PM »
Thanks Bucky!

I was having a heck of a time getting the LH cylinder to time properly. Greg Field wrote a great article on modifying the Tonti dual point distributor points plate.

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_tonti_distributor_dual_points_plate_modification_so_you_can_time_both_cylinders_properly.html

Once I carried out the mod I could get the LH points adjusted to open at static timing mark kike they should. Amazing amount of very useful information on Greg's wonderful site.

A leak out of the front caliper was a bit of a mystery, one of the new Brembo piston seals was leaking, the system is filled with DOT3, this is what the flat O ring looked like when I removed it, only one of them in the pair of front calipers is doing this, strange!!

I fitted another rebuilt caliper, re-bled the system and its all good to go (er. stop).

Snag list is getting shorter, stubborn tach not working, may need to pull it apart.

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans running and on the road
« Reply #416 on: May 12, 2018, 01:11:02 PM »
Final snag resolved, I had bent the steel tube at the end of the tach drive cable thinking all was fine as the cable did move and rotate. After removing the cable I find it is sheared off at the instrument, cable was binding. Off came the fairing and headlight shell, after a couple 'adjustments' with a section of pipe and hammer the headlight bucket is now formed to accept the unbent tach cable.



And the tach does what it should



I started the bike this morning after modifying the points plate and setting the timing, starter on the first stab of the starter button, choke off in a minute and then it settled into a smooth idle, thank you Mr. Field!!

Here is video of the bike restarting after running up to temperature for 15 minutes, one stab of the starter button and it lights, no choke!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbgucEyB9yg&feature=youtu.be
« Last Edit: May 12, 2018, 10:28:33 PM by canuck750 »

Offline TRw1

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Re: 1977 Le Mans running and on the road
« Reply #417 on: May 12, 2018, 07:24:52 PM »
Jim - great job getting the bike done and in top shape.  It's been a long process.  Thanks for documenting so thoroughly as you went along.

Offline Rick4003

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Re: 1977 Le Mans running and on the road
« Reply #418 on: May 12, 2018, 09:14:06 PM »
Looks great on the video Jim!

Now your indicators flash a bit fast? Too low bulb wattage? Wrong flasher relay? It usually happens when people put on new indicators with smaller bulbs than original.

Can't praise your build and your build threads enough. I think everybody is learning a bunch from them! It is like how to build a LM1, V7 sport, V7S3 and so on. They are great.! Thank you for taking the time to post it all.

-Ulrik

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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans running and on the road
« Reply #419 on: May 13, 2018, 12:47:29 PM »
Ok I can really claim this build is done!


































The Le Mans is pointing in the direction it will soon be leaving me, yes I am selling it on to a new home where it will be loved and ridden, I have too many bikes and I must choose which ones to keep, the V7 Sport won out in the decision. The new custodian, who I  will not identify, is an enthusiast and will no doubt love it. This bike must be ridden and I can't give her the seat time it deserves.

Now its on to getting some damage repaired on my Laverda, some workers carrying out renovations in my shop knocked her over and broke the front brake master cylinder, fractured the carb manifold and broke a horn, and who knows what else.



 

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