Author Topic: V85TT vs Stelvio?  (Read 5613 times)

Offline willowstreetguzziguy

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V85TT vs Stelvio?
« on: August 04, 2019, 08:23:55 PM »
Since the V85TT is the hottest Guzzi going, I'm curious as to how it compares to the discontinued 1200 Stelvio?

What strengths does the V85TT have over the the Stelvio and vice versa in a head to head comparison?

Any thoughts ...
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Offline Knuckle Dragger

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Re: V85TT vs Stelvio?
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2019, 09:04:43 PM »
I'll try....

Advantage Stelvio:
Big-block grunt.
Low rev lugging torque.
Huge cargo capacity.
Tried & proven design.
Parrallelogram, progressive rear suspension linkage.
Massively strong frame/subframe/shaft housing.
Tubeless wheels.
Confidence inspiring high speed stability & general road manners.
Superior weather & wind protection.
A mile-eater par excellence.
Fabulous value as a 2nd. hand purchase.
Trusted long-term ownersip prospect.
Arguably better looking.
More of a 'classic' (as opposed to modern) Guzzi.
Now discontinued (along with all big-block bikes), so long-term parts availability may likely diminish.
2014? & later models have more reliable roller-rocker mods.  An essential aid to longevity, most '13 & earlier models have had theirs done (usually but not always @ the owner's expense).  Essential you check if you're buying 2nd. hand.


Advantage V85TT
Light(er) weight.
Less top-heavy ponderous steering in extreme slow speed manoeuvres.
Excellent fuel economy & range.
Much cheaper when new.
A perhaps more 'modern' take on a contemporary Guzzi.
Cheap(er) to maintain (tyre consumption, parts etc).
Better rough-road performance:  less wallowy.
Superior steering response & 'flickability'.
The ability to actually pick it up without unloading (& possibly requiring assistance) should it fall off the sidestand.
Already an extensive range of OEM & aftermarket accessories available, growing every week.
Will be produced in far greater numbers than the Stelvio, ensuring excellent parts & accessories longevity.
Free-er(??) engine, lightweight internals more willing to rev.
Overall a 'sportier' proposition to ride?
Reasonably comprehensive standard & accessory electronics suite, incl. cruise, telephone & comms interface, onboard navigation etc.
Maybe (due to its instant success & popularity) better resale value retention?

Whether any of these are actual demonstrable and worthwhile merits depends entirely on an individual's personal value judgement.  Beauty, worthiness, usefulness and utility are very much in the eye of the beholder.  One's perception of virtue may very well be another's of vice.  This is just my personal take on the 2 scooters.

I'm honestly not game to overtly criticise either bike, as I consider either to be, if not exactly "state of the art", which no Guzzi ever has been since the Mk1 LeMans, then at least a "superior alternative" to their most obvious respective competitors.  As for which is "better", I really couldn't say.  I think its down to which bike (or another brand/model) will most properly fulfil your own expectations.

For me personally, given that I'm mere days away now from official "old age" &, erm... of slightly corpulent BMI, I think I'd take the latter, lighter weight alternative & just customise the buggery out of it until I'm either satisfied or I just f*%k it up completely.  I'd be giving it a thicker home-made bashplate, lower front 'guard, centre stand, bigger 'screen, heated grips, free-breathing air filter, decat midpipe & probably core the standard exhaust can to allow it to run cooler, free up some hidden neddies & give it a more distinctive bark.  Some bikes are just begging to be modified/customised, whereas some don't like it at all.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 11:11:39 AM by Knuckle Dragger »
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Offline willowstreetguzziguy

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Re: V85TT vs Stelvio?
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2021, 06:28:05 PM »
So I posted this question two years ago.

Since that time, has anybody sold their 1200 Stelvio for a new V85TT?

If so, what are your comparative thoughts on the two bikes now that you’ve had both?
2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport 
1993 BMW K75S Pearl White (sold)
"Going somewhere isn't why you ride, riding is why you go!"    Moto Guzzi... because the only person I have to impress is me.

Offline AH Fan

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Re: V85TT vs Stelvio?
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2021, 06:48:20 PM »
Bought a brand new one to take the place of my older model and will be keeping it until I cant ride anymore.
They are really the ultimate SUV in a proper layout........... JMHO is all.

Ciao

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Re: V85TT vs Stelvio?
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2021, 06:48:20 PM »

Offline rudyr

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Re: V85TT vs Stelvio?
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2021, 10:10:33 PM »
Well I dropped my v85 again, but this time I was in really bad situation I had to yield Turing to Walmart parking lot,  water was running in street about 2”” could keep footing down it came.  Another right turn signal lens and bang head( with my helmet on).  I was loaded couldn’t left it, throw the load in grass but loaded saddle bags still couldn’t Left it,  not tall enough to lift it over top dead center. I’m thinking If I had a short rope around engine guard for a lower lifting point than the Handel bar.  Another point it’s rained out Sat. Spingfield mile.  Got to start home Sun..Rudy

Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: V85TT vs Stelvio?
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2021, 08:01:45 AM »
Well, I put over 50,000 miles on a Stelvio, and have now had my V85 for about 7,000 miles.

1) The most obvious thing is, I could ride across country on the V85 and back, on one set of tires. With the Stelvio, I could make a rear tire disappear in one day trip. My Stelvio, the earlier model, had a rim size that complicated getting good adventure tires.
2) The V85 is gutless below 4000 RPM. Now I know a lot of morons will be thinking 'it is a Guzzi, keep it revved up'. No, it doesn't work like that. You don't keep it wound up for hours on end on a gravel road in the mountains. Hell, Vagrant has a driveway climb that almost means slipping the clutch and burning it up, just to get to the street. If the motor can't be made to have some grunt, the least they could have done, for an adventure style bike, is make first gear more useful in low speed stuff.
3) I hope that the V85 engineer that thought that putting a blinking green cruise control light beside the blinking green turn signal light was a good idea, is out of work.
4) The V85 has a very light clutch, that works very well. Amazing.
5) The V85 has a throttle spring that requires you to use the cruise control, like it or not.
6) The Stelvio was a heavy tall beast. I dropped it in mud a couple of times, and I needed help to get it back up. I have not dropped the V85 in mud yet, but it feels much lighter.
7) The Stelvio sucked gas seldom getting over 40MPG, and my early model had the tiny tank. The V85 can sip gas, over 60MPG occasionally (rarely, but possible), and has a bit over 6 gallons. But at 'hyper legal' highway speeds and a larger windshield, the V85 can get low 40MPG. Still with 6 gallons, it is great.
8) I don't care that much for the techno whizbang dash on the V85 and the oil change icon that normal humans aren't allowed to reset.
9) The V85 seat feels surprisingly tall when getting on and off the bike. Yet my legs are not really stretched out that far. And I have scuff marks on the sides of my boots, because the pegs aren't that high off the ground. Basically, the ergonomics could be a bit better, but there aren't bad enough for me to do anything.
10) That odd single sided shock on the rear of the V85 works very well. The progressive wound spring works well. I have not touched the settings on the front or the back. They just work for me.
11) The V85 uses tire sizes that give you a lot of options.
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Online Huzo

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Re: V85TT vs Stelvio?
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2021, 08:19:59 AM »
What the hell were you doing that saw a tyre off in a day and I’ll presume that was no more than 1000 km ?
The throttle pull is an easy fix.
Lowering the bike 15-20 mm is readily achievable.
The blinking green light is only blinking when the CC is not engaged.
It makes more kW/ litre than your Stelvio, so it’s not gutless.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 08:22:34 AM by Huzo »

Online Huzo

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Re: V85TT vs Stelvio?
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2021, 08:31:32 AM »
I'd be giving it a thicker home-made bashplate, lower front 'guard, centre stand, bigger 'screen, heated grips, free-breathing air filter, decat midpipe & probably core the standard exhaust can to allow it to run cooler, free up some hidden neddies & give it a more distinctive bark.  Some bikes are just begging to be modified/customised, whereas some don't like it at all.
Jeez KD, that all sounds like a lot of messing around...
Keep ‘em standard I say, Guzzi know what they’re doing... :rolleyes:


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Re: V85TT vs Stelvio?
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2021, 12:00:52 PM »
I Had a 2014 Stevio, bought last year, and about 5000 miles before it came down with a difficult to fix electrical issue. Traded for a V85 and agree with the two previous lengthy posts. Throttle pull seems excessive but I have not noticed it riding after several hours, not to say longer rides may not change my opinion.

First gear on the V85 is too tall. Better fueling may help this, but it is still significantly too tall for more technical stuff.

The new small bike has much better suspension compliance and chassis balance,IMO, by far, compared to the Stelvio.

The V85 is sleepy a low revs whereas the Stevio could be ridden in 6th gear at 30 mph.

The V85 may have much less vulnerable and less maintenance intensive rear suspension. This was a problem on the Stelvio’s swingarm bearings that were not sealed robustly.

Overall the V85 is much superior except for the motor…..and the seat.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 12:02:57 PM by Amstaff »

Offline blu guzz

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Re: V85TT vs Stelvio?
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2021, 12:13:38 PM »
i just returned from a rally where there were 5 other v85s.  all had done what i did, which was a Y-pipe and center stand.  the Y-pipe really helps the low speed driveability.  you get good poke from about 2,500 and up in 3rd gear.  it delivers fuel much better. at all speeds.  not faster, but acts like it has a better map.
Blue Guzz

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Re: V85TT vs Stelvio?
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2021, 01:10:30 PM »
blu-guz,

This is interesting. I’m probably not the only one that is getting tied up in knots whether de-cat, or other exhaust mods, can provide benefits without remapping. Knowledge base on remapping seems not mature yet.

Sounds like an aftermarket slip-on muffler wasn't installed also or you’d have mentioned.

Offline blu guzz

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Re: V85TT vs Stelvio?
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2021, 01:50:45 PM »
correct, it is just a tad louder without the cat, but not a problem, not really wanting a new can too.  as someone that grew up during the environmental awakening, it bothers me a little to get rid of the cat and i will say that at a stoplight or idling, it does stink.  so many years of cats and you forget how noxious the fumes are.  i have an electric car to make up for it a little.
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Online Trialsman

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Re: V85TT vs Stelvio?
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2021, 02:09:56 PM »
I had a Stelvio and am now on my second V85.  The V85 has decent power but it is more like a Japanese engine as you get it above 3,500rpm.  The Stelvio has much more grunt and an excess of power.  I just came back from the Top of the Rockies rally in Colorado, and the V85 did a fine job on the interstate with enough power, comfort, and stability for prolonged days. The Stelvio just will do it better but at a hit in gas mileage.  My son is now selling his Stelvio with 5,200 miles on it in favor of the V85.

The biggest reason I turned the Stelvio over to my son was that it was just too tall for me.  The high center of gravity made it scary if I got off center.  I never dropped it and on dirt roads and light trails it preformed very well.  I thought the Stelvio's suspension was very good.  I am 5-10" by the way and the V85 feels much lighter.  I, also was at the rally this weekend in Ohio and I learned something ( beside putting faces to names on the site).  On the way out of the campsite it was heavy gravel on an uphill.  Having to go almost to a crawl, I found the lower limit of the engine in first gear.  It quit and I toppled.  I jumped off and there were just a couple of scuffs.  The other guys there came over and helped me right the bike and we were on our way back home. 

The take aways from that;

                     The V85 FEELS very light and is a good deal lighter than the Stelvio.  It IS NOT however a light bike and there would be no way I could lift it
                          myself, so I will always carry my DirtNapper.  It was a grunt with four of us lifting.

                     The first gear on the V85 is not nearly low enough for  off road technical so keep your finger on the clutch.

                     After being on its side it will need to have a key cycle to start again.

                     For the first seconds after the fall, there will be excess fuel and it will not accelerate cleanly.  It will clear within the first couple gear shifts.

                     The guys at the rally were a great group of guys. 

By the way, Huzo's throttle spring fix is a very welcome addition to the ease of use for the V85.  I think some of the "stumble" some notice is due more to the stiff OEM throttle spring and the hard slippery hand grips. Uneven surfaces cause your wrist to have a momentary loss of grip and the stiff throttle forces the hard grip to slip in your hand resulting in a loss of power feel.  It is much better now with less spring and softer grips and there has been no sensation of stumble in 5,000 mi.
.   
« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 05:48:27 PM by Trialsman »
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Offline willowstreetguzziguy

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Re: V85TT vs Stelvio?
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2021, 02:52:11 PM »
Sounds like from the majority of the posts that if you can handle the extra weight of the Stelvio and the added seat height that the Stelvio is a really good medium and long distance touring bike and 2-up riding for long legged riders.

And the lighter V85TT is easier to handle & maneuver and may be better suited to off road travels than the Stelvio if you don’t let it bog down in lower gears.

The Stelvio just has more low end grunt if you need it and the V85TT is less weight to handle if that’s important to you. Both are comfortable.

Does that sum up the comparison of the two bikes?
« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 02:53:36 PM by willowstreetguzziguy »
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1993 BMW K75S Pearl White (sold)
"Going somewhere isn't why you ride, riding is why you go!"    Moto Guzzi... because the only person I have to impress is me.

Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: V85TT vs Stelvio?
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2021, 07:59:24 PM »
What the hell were you doing that saw a tyre off in a day and I’ll presume that was no more than 1000 km ?
The throttle pull is an easy fix.
Lowering the bike 15-20 mm is readily achievable.
The blinking green light is only blinking when the CC is not engaged.
It makes more kW/ litre than your Stelvio, so it’s not gutless.

1) Riding two up with loaded luggage, blasting back and forth across the Cherohalla Skyway and Deals Gap. I also destroyed a Stelvio tire on a round trip across Georgia on highway 16. When I pulled off the highway the tire was just balls of chewing gum.
2) Not sure I would rate grinding / cutting those security screws off as 'easy', but it is doable. The point is that there was no reason for it to be like that in the first place.
3) My boots are already dragging in the corners, so lowering the bike is not in my plan. My comment was to imply that there is something a bit off with the ergonomics, as in, such a tall bike yet I feel a bit cramped. I don't mind a tall bike.
4) Yep, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink. In green, right beside the blinking green turn signal indicator.
5) No I don't have the charts, do you? I suspect you are wrong below 4000 RPM like I stated. Either way, it can hardly pull a hill pulling out of a residence onto a street. Sure, once it is wound up it works well and is fun. But taking off on a hill, it is gutless at low RPM. As an adventure bike it needs some torque at lower speed. We can't just change a sprocket, so the transmission should have been geared for a bit more torque at low speeds.

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Offline blu guzz

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Re: V85TT vs Stelvio?
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2021, 09:16:48 PM »
so that was your, trialsman.  now i know.  that driveway is a test for anyone and any bike.  my first experience on it was on a loaded up 1400 California.  glad you weren't hurt.
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Re: V85TT vs Stelvio?
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2021, 06:08:40 AM »
Well no, I don’t have the charts, that’s correct.
But I got my abacus out and came to the conclusion that 75 horse from 850 CC’s is more than 100 horse from 1200 CC’s.
And it’s lighter....

Offline guzziart

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Re: V85TT vs Stelvio?
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2021, 07:09:56 AM »
...Trialsman said  "I, also was at the rally this weekend in Ohio and I learned something ( beside putting faces to names on the site).  On the way out of the campsite it was heavy gravel on an uphill.  Having to go almost to a crawl, I found the lower limit of the engine in first gear.  It quit and I toppled.  I jumped off and there were just a couple of scuffs.  The other guys there came over and helped me right the bike and we were on our way back home. "

Hey Trialsman....same here!  I did a day trip to the rally on Friday.  After an enjoyable several hours of shooting the breeze, I hopped back on the '72 Eldo, headed up the drive, stopped to look both ways, throttled up, eased out the clutch, it stalled & I fell.  At first I thought I was stupid to not let the bike warm up for a half minute or so or, I goofed with my clutch/throttle modulation.  Well, like I said, I was stupid to not let the bike warm up for a bit because had I did, I would have realized that the fuel petcocks were closed. 

Anyway, great rally, nice seeing my Guzzi friends & putting a face to the screen name.  As always, Thanks Blakes & Leroy!

Also, I hope to get a V85TT one of these days before I'm too old.

Art

« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 07:11:50 AM by guzziart »
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Online Trialsman

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Re: V85TT vs Stelvio?
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2021, 09:09:35 AM »
Some people like to make a grand entrance.   We like the grand exit I guess.  Looked to be a great group and look forward to spending the entire weekend next year.  Thanks Pat, for giving me the heads up on the event.
2010 FE570 Husaberg
2019 Alta Redshift EXR
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2021 Moto Guzzi V85TT Centenario
2024 Stelvio V100

 

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