Author Topic: Why is Sport Touring dead?  (Read 14492 times)

Offline Lannis

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #60 on: April 16, 2017, 08:55:20 PM »
Who said it is dead?

That's what we keep arguing.   It's not.
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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #61 on: April 17, 2017, 06:24:08 AM »

To me, a sport touring bike is one that takes the best elements of the manufacturer's touring bike, and slims it down, slightly changes the rider's posture to more of a 'lean into it,' perhaps adds better suspension.

The bike isn't designed to make touring more of a sporting proposition.  It's designed for those who like less than a full touring bike, but who like the basic design features of the full bore tourer, without the barn door fairing and windshield, and the higher handlebars.

< snip >

To me, a well-designed sport tourer lets me enjoy the elements surrounding me more so than would a full blown touring bike.  But at the same time, when the elements turn bad (wetter, colder, etc) the sport touring bike provides enough protection to make the ride ok.


And by that definition one could argue (and I often did taking crap for it here) that a Cali was a Sport Touring Cruiser from Guzzi and the Road King was one from Harley.

Not that it matters.

It's all just a matter of degree, kinda the same concept of downsizing one's 🏍️ it changes relative to one's perspective.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 06:29:00 AM by Kev m »
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Online Kev m

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #62 on: April 17, 2017, 06:27:23 AM »
If an Eldo is doing the ton, is it a Sport Tourer? Labels mean nothing to anyone but the uneducated.

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Or perhaps labels are simply a part of language, an easy way to categorize something, but people simply need to understand their significance or lack thereof.
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Offline Northern Bill

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #63 on: April 17, 2017, 07:00:25 AM »
I would be curious to know if touring, in general,  on a motorcycle is fading. I am 65 and I did my last big tour to Inuvik in 2007.  Since then I just haven't had the desire to go on another big trip.  When I was in my late teens all I could think of was touring.  It was excitement to the max.  I wonder if young people see it as exciting these days.  I read an article a few years ago that stated that young people see motorcycling as a sport where fat old people ride big and slow bikes. It went on to state that there was little allure for young people. If there is any truth in this article maybe the number of tourers, per capita, is dropping because it doesn't do anything for a lot of our young people.
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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #63 on: April 17, 2017, 07:00:25 AM »

Offline ohiorider

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #64 on: April 17, 2017, 07:31:49 AM »
Found this quote on Wiki, attributed to Peter Egan.  "The first sport-tourer is said to be the fully faired 1977 BMW R100RS.[1] [2] Journalist Peter Egan defines the sport-tourer as a "café racer that doesn't hurt your wrists and a touring bike that doesn't feel like a tank," and identified the R100RS as the first example he owned.
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kirby1923

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #65 on: April 17, 2017, 07:44:57 AM »
I'm not a big Egan fan but I think he has defined/described the subject pretty well. All my machines fit that, for me at least.

There is not many thing I like better that packing up and seeing what's over the net hill.

:-)
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 07:49:46 AM by kirby1923 »

Offline rocker59

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #66 on: April 17, 2017, 07:51:51 AM »

To me, a sport touring bike is one that takes the best elements of the manufacturer's touring bike, and slims it down, slightly changes the rider's posture to more of a 'lean into it,' perhaps adds better suspension.

The bike isn't designed to make touring more of a sporting proposition.  It's designed for those who like less than a full touring bike, but who like the basic design features of the full bore tourer, without the barn door fairing and windshield, and the higher handlebars.
 

on the other hand...

To me, a sport touring bike is a sportsbike with bags.  The archetype factory sport-touring machine is the Ducati ST2.   They took all the elements of the company's best sportsbikes and slightly changed the rider's position to make the bike more comfortable for long days in the saddle.

The bike is designed to make sporting more of a touring proposition.  It's designed for those who want more long distance comfort than a full sporting bike, and some of the features of a "tourer" without all the unnecessary size and weight.



So, I guess these are examples of the differences in SPORT-touring and sport-TOURING...  LOL!!!

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Offline rocker59

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #67 on: April 17, 2017, 08:06:56 AM »

My introduction to "sport-touring" came in the 1990s with a bunch of Ducati and Triumph riders I was riding with.

Sport-Touring was some Marsee soft luggage strapped onto our Ducati Monsters, Ducati Supersports, Triumph Daytonas and Guzzi Sport 1100s.

We rode all over the country like that.  But especially The Ozarks and The Rockies.  Hotels/Motels at night, as we didn't carry camping gear.  Into the 2000s we were making one to two week trips like this.

Several riders in the group transitioned onto the Ducati ST2 and ST4 when they became available.  Some went to the Triumph Sprint.

That was 20-years ago, now, and many of those guys I rode with don't ride much anymore.  None of them transitioned to cruisers.  Their miles just went down and down until they didn't ride at all, anymore.  Some of the guys that still ride did go to things like the BMW-RT and the Guzzi Norge.

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Offline Dofin

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #68 on: April 17, 2017, 08:15:27 AM »
Sport Touring??  Is it the motorcycle or is it the rider?  Sport Touring, Do you need a specific design motorcycle or is it a state of mind?  Sport Touring can it be a 50cc motorcycle or does it have to be bruiser 2.3 liter bike (Triumph)?  I realize this is an esoteric discussion and meant to have us muse on our reasons for riding motorcycles.

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Online Kev m

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #69 on: April 17, 2017, 08:22:21 AM »
Isn't this just the "V7 isn't a touring bike" debate on another category. I.E. it's all just semantics.

Seems to me a sizable number of conflicts in this world come down to just plain misunderstanding of intent/meaning.
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kirby1923

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #70 on: April 17, 2017, 08:23:01 AM »
on the other hand...

To me, a sport touring bike is a sportsbike with bags.  The archetype factory sport-touring machine is the Ducati ST2.   They took all the elements of the company's best sportsbikes and slightly changed the rider's position to make the bike more comfortable for long days in the saddle.

The bike is designed to make sporting more of a touring proposition.  It's designed for those who want more long distance comfort than a full sporting bike, and some of the features of a "tourer" without all the unnecessary size and weight.



So, I guess these are examples of the differences in SPORT-touring and sport-TOURING...  LOL!!!

That's a good point!
The riders I have encountered (most) out touring are on the "sport touring" type so named by the manufacturers and magazines like the one Egan wrote for.
In SoCal the sport types are leathered up repli-racers out for a weekend charge thru the mountains. I don't consider them to be touring.
But then the types I have been riding with on a regular? basis lean toward a real sport/repli-racer with minimum luggage and solo.
I still try and do a trip once a year or so with guys living in Europe that is pretty intense ops and two are in their eighties.
Got to give the marketing guys their due on figuring out how to bring out the Walter Mitty in those inclined.

:-)
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 08:25:33 AM by kirby1923 »

Offline RANDM

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #71 on: April 17, 2017, 08:42:29 AM »
Found this quote on Wiki, attributed to Peter Egan.  "The first sport-tourer is said to be the fully faired 1977 BMW R100RS.[1] [2] Journalist Peter Egan defines the sport-tourer as a "caf� racer that doesn't hurt your wrists and a touring bike that doesn't feel like a tank," and identified the R100RS as the first example he owned.

Not an authority on the subject but I think over here the R90S was
considered the first S/T - didn't that pre-date the R100?


My introduction to "sport-touring" came in the 1990s with a bunch of Ducati and Triumph riders I was riding with.

Sport-Touring was some Marsee soft luggage strapped onto our Ducati Monsters, Ducati Supersports, Triumph Daytonas and Guzzi Sport 1100s.

We rode all over the country like that.  But especially The Ozarks and The Rockies.  Hotels/Motels at night, as we didn't carry camping gear.  Into the 2000s we were making one to two week trips like this.

Several riders in the group transitioned onto the Ducati ST2 and ST4 when they became available.  Some went to the Triumph Sprint.

That was 20-years ago, now, and many of those guys I rode with don't ride much anymore.  None of them transitioned to cruisers.  Their miles just went down and down until they didn't ride at all, anymore.  Some of the guys that still ride did go to things like the BMW-RT and the Guzzi Norge.



Back in the '70's our sport touring was a Plastic bag with a sleeping bag,
spare T-shirt, sox & jocks, and a few tools. We slept under bridges or off
the side of the road beside a fire.

Buggered if I could b do that now.  :rolleyes:

Maurie.

Offline Dofin

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #72 on: April 17, 2017, 08:53:43 AM »
Maybe we should question the marketing guys ideas about what a sport touring motorcycle is?  Don't trust anyone over 30 and down with the establishment!!!   :drool:

this is lots of fun!  I like reading about the good ol' bad days of strapping a pillow case full of our things on the back of a rust bucket and hope we make it where we were going and maybe having to hitchhike our way back home, if we were luck we limped home with a rear feeling of accomplishment!!! 

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Offline RANDM

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #73 on: April 17, 2017, 09:19:31 AM »
Well then : )
As someone mentioned Tiddlers my very first "trip" was to Bathurst from
Sydney on a Honda Benley 125 Twin when I was 17 ................... ........
Would that be considered Sporting?

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Offline Sheepdog

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #74 on: April 17, 2017, 09:49:39 AM »
My first was a 510 mile sojourn on a '74 Yamaha RD200E. Perfect for those 55 mph national speed limit days...and at 309 lbs (full of gas), it was quite sporting.
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Offline rocker59

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #75 on: April 17, 2017, 09:52:14 AM »
My first was a 510 mile sojourn on a '74 Yamaha RD200E. Perfect for those 55 mph national speed limit days...and at 309 lbs (full of gas), it was quite sporting.
No interstate, right?

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Offline rocker59

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #76 on: April 17, 2017, 09:52:55 AM »
Well then : )
As someone mentioned Tiddlers my very first "trip" was to Bathurst from
Sydney on a Honda Benley 125 Twin when I was 17 ................... ........
Would that be considered Sporting?

Maurie.
Don't know the road. Curvy or straight?

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Offline Sheepdog

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #77 on: April 17, 2017, 10:04:25 AM »
No interstate, right?

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A short section of I-10 so I could get through Baton Rouge. That was a pretty cool bike; it would easily hit 85mph and cruised nicely at 62. I just had to keep the revs above 4000 so it would keep the plugs from fouling.
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Offline ScepticalScotty

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #78 on: April 17, 2017, 12:11:38 PM »
Wayne from Arizona is on my wavelength, curves have be an integral part of the trip, more that sightseeing or a rally it a race. The, Alps, Pyrenees, Rockies all good destinations.
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Offline RANDM

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #79 on: April 17, 2017, 04:54:05 PM »
Don't know the road. Curvy or straight?

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Offline Lannis

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #80 on: April 17, 2017, 05:27:13 PM »
No interstate, right?

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I didn't hesitate to ride my 1971 Yamaha CS-3 200cc twin on Interstate 81 in that time period to go see my girl.  55 mph limit and cars were running 65 .... on the 20 miles from Troutville to Blacksburg, VA, I'd follow at a discreet distance behind a law abiding truck and just ride.

On back roads, it was quick as anyone.   We're just spoiled today; if all we had was what we had in the early 70s, that's what we'd ride ....

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Offline rocker59

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #81 on: April 17, 2017, 05:28:28 PM »
Interstate is just touring. You can do that on any old bike...

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Offline Darren Williams

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #82 on: April 17, 2017, 07:02:44 PM »
My first "big" street bike was a 1981 KZ550 with a luggage rack on back and a National Cycle Plexifairing windshield for the winter and a small sport screen for summer (don't remember the brand).  My Uncle had a CB750 four and we would ride over into the Ozarks for weekends regularly. I carried a yellow Dry Rider suit and other clothes and stuff in a big green army surplus duffle bag strapped to the luggage rack and back part of the seat.  I was sport touring, dang it!  Those trips were to get from straight flat roads to twisty hilly roads and be able to lean the bike over.

I also road my bikes all over the several state area to visit family, friends and go to softball tournaments in the warmer months. Those trips were less sport and more touring or really just traveling.

Now my wife and I sport tour on our FJR and CB500X.  Travel to Texas Hill Country for MotoGP and 3 sisters, Colorado for the Rocky Mountains and to the BRP just to ride the roads. We also go to the Ozarks a half dozen times a year for long weekends to see the sights and ride the roads.  We wouldn't do it on bikes that can't lean though corner or carry our luggage. They have to sport tourers.
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #83 on: April 17, 2017, 07:18:57 PM »
Interstate is just touring. You can do that on any old bike...

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This. Sport touring, as compared to sport Touring is different. Running down the interstate? You can do that on any sled.  :evil: I'd rather be in the car..
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Offline Lannis

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #84 on: April 17, 2017, 07:36:19 PM »
This. Sport touring, as compared to sport Touring is different. Running down the interstate? You can do that on any sled.  :evil: I'd rather be in the car..

So if part of your ride to where you are going on your Ducati ST3 happens to have an Interstate designation, the Ducati is no longer a "Sport Tourer", you aren't "sport touring", and you might as well be in a car?

I think this thread has gone a bit silly. It certainly started pear-shaped.

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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #85 on: April 17, 2017, 07:39:11 PM »
So if part of your ride to where you are going on your Ducati ST3 happens to have an Interstate designation, the Ducati is no longer a "Sport Tourer", you aren't "sport touring", and you might as well be in a car?

I think this thread has gone a bit silly. It certainly started pear-shaped.

Lannis

I had an ST2, and avoided the interstates like the plague. Of course, you're right, it is a bit silly. BTW, looked in the mirror lately, pear boy?
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Offline Darren Williams

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #86 on: April 17, 2017, 07:46:29 PM »
I'm not opposed to burning up a couple hundred interstate miles to get to the twisties quicker. Don't want to waste half a day going and half a day coming back on a short 3 day weekend!
The best part of riding a motorcycle is to tilt the horizon and to lift the front coming out of a corner and to drift the back end powering thru loose dirt and to catch a little air topping a hill and... yeah it's all good!

Offline Testarossa

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #87 on: April 17, 2017, 08:18:42 PM »
Who coined the term "sport touring," and when?  Was it originally a marketing category?

I've always bought bikes that could corner, and then toured on them. I didn't consider the 850T a sport bike, but it cornered and I always kept up with my friends who rode "sport" bikes --- sometimes led the way. And I put bags on it and rode multi-day trips. Same with the CB500-4. Same now with the Mille and the F650.

At one point I put a tail box on the T to accomodate Gail, and I hated the way it looked -- like a dressed-out touring rig, rolling along with its fat ass in the air and the center of gravity far away from where it oughta be.  Not a recipe for predictable handling.  We two-up now with a simple back pad for Gail, and she's quite happy.

For my purposes a sport touring bike is anything that can lean over on a twisty mountain road AND can be equipped for an overnight adventure, either solo or two-up. Doesn't have to come that way from the factory. In short, any well-engineered standard can do the job.

The next question should be who buys standards, and who builds them, and why?
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Offline Denis

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #88 on: April 18, 2017, 09:51:56 AM »
Two pics of my favorite sport tourer, the SP II.
The first photo was taken in 1990, the year I bought it (it sat on the showroom floor new from 1987 until Jan, '90, when I bought it).
The second photo was taken in 2014. It hasn't changed a whole lot. The summer lower fairings were the result of a couple of mishaps with a car and a van in a parking lot. They are the originals cut down but I did get factory painted replacements which are safely tucked away.






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Offline WitchCityGuzzi

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Re: Why is Sport Touring dead?
« Reply #89 on: April 18, 2017, 09:52:48 AM »
I think the ST bikes are dying off because the ADV bikes do almost everything an ST bike can do on the road and a bit more comfortably, and then also ride pretty well off road. Something that an ST doesn't do well at all.

95% or more of the worlds roads are unpaved. That's a lot of territory that is more easily explored with an ADV styled bikes. ADV bikes are the fastest growing segment/class of bike and I'd be willing to bet, that for a lot of people that is the reason. The versatility to ride a wide variety of terrain in relative comfort. There's some amazing tracks out there that aren't really rideable on an ST bike.

It's a tough package to beat, which is why for the life of me, I can't understand Guzzi not having a replacement or next generation for the Stelvio.
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