Ducati 750 prices, I don't understand

[gearman]

I don't get it either. Why is a painting with dropped paint worth millions?Maybe I could sell my drop cloth

[Denis]

Well, how many 750 GTs did Ducati make? 50,000? 10,000? 5,000? 2,500? That would have a lot to do with it.

Using the logic of performance is not really applicable to what things are worth. My Eldorado should be worth twice as much as my Indian because it's twice as fast. My Lemans should be worth half again as much because it's even faster and handles better, but the reality is the Lemans is worth the least by far.

[GeneW]

New guy on the forum, but here's my thoughts, for what it is worth.

The last motorcycle I bought was a 1974 Ducati 750GT in 1978. I'm now getting ready to purchase a new 2018 Guzzi V7iii Special for the same reason I bought the Ducati back in 1978. Sometimes you just get a feeling about a cycle being the right one for you. No test ride on the Ducati when I bought it because I knew we were a good match and I would fix whatever needed fixing to make it work. And work it has. It has been a great cycle, never left me stranded and is not hard to maintain (not a desmo model). I live in Wisconsin and it has been down to Atlanta many times to visit family and to Branson to attend a Norton rally (my brother was riding a Norton to the rally). Still not afraid to take it on trips.

The recent prices rather sadden me as I get the feeling that the folks buying them now aren't going to appreciate the cycle, which makes it somewhat difficult for those of us still motoring around on these mounts. If I needed a major repair I doubt that I would have the financial ability to make the repair. Not sure what I would do at that point. Can't explain the price run up. As much as I love the machine I could never bring myself to manage the current prices. It's hard to believe they are being purchased to ride. I am certain they are not being purchased because they generate the same feelings I had when I purchased mine. Today I believe it is mostly speculation. Too bad.

My favorite Ducati experience occurred on a trip from Milwaukee to Minneapolis. I had been riding all day and was driving through downtown Minneapolis at about 4:00 on a Sunday evening. A cycle merging onto the freeway caught my eye and I looked over to acknowledge the rider. He was on a Ducati 750GT! Now what are the chances of that??? I've never seen another 750GT parked or moving any other time in my 40 years of ownership. How could 2 of them be occupying the same traffic lane at the same time?. I think he was more shocked than I was. We rode for a couple miles and then he exited off the freeway. Now, I ask you, would not you keep that motorcycle forever?

I think the V7iii will be just as inspirational for me as the Ducati. Just a feeling but sometimes that is all it takes for me. Love that Italian machinery.

Picture of the old beat up Ducati below. Not much to look at but never get tired of seeing it on the center stand waiting to get ridden.

[geodoc]

Total 750 GT production for 1972 - 75 was 4,133.

Well, how many 750 GTs did Ducati make? 50,000? 10,000? 5,000? 2,500? That would have a lot to do with it.

Using the logic of performance is not really applicable to what things are worth. My Eldorado should be worth twice as much as my Indian because it's twice as fast. My Lemans should be worth half again as much because it's even faster and handles better, but the reality is the Lemans is worth the least by far.

[geodoc]

I bought an early production '73 750 GT basket case and finished it in 2014. It has a wonderful ride feel and is amazingly smooth. The forks have been modified with RaceTech Gold Valves so the original bouncy Marzocchi forks are not so bouncy. It showed about 50 HP on the dyno, so not exactly a rocket, but very nice wide power band and super easy shifting gearbox. Like a lot of bikes from that time, it's got pretty lazy steering by modern standards. Also like many bikes from about than, the front brake hydraulic ratio makes a WAY to stiff brake feel that I remedied with a smaller bore master cylinder.

It's only got 9000 km on it since I finished it so can't attest to it's reliability. I've had a bunch of electrical problems all due to "bad out of the box" components. Once that was all sorted, nothing but routine maintenance.

Best thing about it? It is a truly beautiful unit - austere, yet voluptuous. And there is nothing, nothing that sounds quite like it. IMHO the 750 SS "Green frame" is one of the most beautiful motorcycles ever made.

Restoring it:

http://forum.bevelheaven.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=4543&sid=40662d475d7d0f37e7b2de976580fe48

[cliffrod]

New guy on the forum, but here's my thoughts, for what it is worth.

The recent prices rather sadden me as I get the feeling that the folks buying them now aren't going to appreciate the cycle, which makes it somewhat difficult for those of us still motoring around on these mounts. If I needed a major repair I doubt that I would have the financial ability to make the repair. Not sure what I would do at that point. Can't explain the price run up. As much as I love the machine I could never bring myself to manage the current prices.

One of the old friends from our shop brought his decades-long owned and great looking, recently well-freshened 750GT to our rally in July 2017- gorgeous bike.  He was hit by a car barely 10 minutes after leaving, sending him to the hospital for weeks & long home recovery.  Meanwhile, insurance totaled the bike.  It's repairable as a rider, but it won't be the same kind of low$$ fix as was possible in the past.  Regardless, having a patched-up Roundcase is not acceptable in the marketplace anymore.  It's been sitting at the shop ever since, partly for the very reasons stated above.   

[Tusayan]

GeneW, yours is a great looking GT  modified in a functional way and used for what it was designed.  I love it.  Godfrey D, who I've noted as posting here a couple of times in the past was well known for riding his similar 750GT lots of miles before moving onto Guzzis. Godfrey started Euromoto which was the predecessor of all the US based Italian bike forums and still operates sporadically.

Whatever happened to the '74 750SS that had a zillion miles on it and was ridden every year to Laguna Seca where it could be found parked unceremoniously in a dirt parking area? That was another great one.

Re bevel Ducati repairs... Compared with many modern Ducatis (for example my ST4) and a lot of other modern bikes bevel Ducs are simple to work on.  Some things are tricky, for example setting up the bevel gears on a round case engine (they fixed that on the square cases for 1976) but other things like top end service are super simple: no water jacket, no head gaskets, comes right apart.  If people are charging big bucks for service it's because owners will pay big bucks and because parts are often made in small quantities.  They're really not hard to work on - I even split the crank and replaced the rods and bearings on one of mine years ago.

[oldbike54]

 Mike Hailwood and Paul Smart never raced Moto Guzzi race bikes .

 Dusty

[Murray]

Its simple really its the association with a brand that has won multiple world championships in living memory, its associated with a brand that sells no compromise sports bikes. If Porsche never really did anything past the 550 spider and went back to a niche tractor manufacture that hung on to existence from year to year you'd probably struggle to give one away.

[reidy]

I think part of the price rise has a lot of parallels with the Dutch tulip bulb boom in the early 1600's and a lot of other similar stock market booms through history. I have no doubt the Ducati was a very nice ride in its day and to my eyes it still have a style about it. Since the prices are going up how can you go wrong buying one. You have a nice iconic bike and in a couple of years you can sell it for a nice profit. The trick is to sell it the week before the market turns, it is as easy as that.

Many years ago I read something along these lines about old popular classic motorcycles with a reputation for being a nice ride. If you ever have the chance to ride one you have to say it is a great ride, because if you don't you obviously don't know what you are talking about. If you purchase one you have to spread the legend of how great a bike they are. If you don't the value may fall when you try and sell it or yours is a bad example and not worth any money. If you criticize it after you sell it you must of just had a bad example that you didn't know how to maintain. If you have not ridden one or owned one your opinion is worthless.

I think a lot in the above paragraph is true and years of one-upmanship and exaggeration have created legends out of average to good bikes. Some of these legends were created by journalists of bike magazines of the day, and if you did not see it like the popular journalist you obviously did not have the riding skill to appreciate a fine motorcycle.   

I am off to go and buy as many CX 500's as I can get. They are a great bike, like a Guzzi but better than any Guzzi ever produced. I hear prices are booming so I should be able to double my money by next year. If anyone has a bad thing to say don't listen they don't know what they are talking about.

Steve 

[gearman]

I think part of the price rise has a lot of parallels with the Dutch tulip bulb boom in the early 1600's and a lot of other similar stock market booms through history. I have no doubt the Ducati was a very nice ride in its day and to my eyes it still have a style about it. Since the prices are going up how can you go wrong buying one. You have a nice iconic bike and in a couple of years you can sell it for a nice profit. The trick is to sell it the week before the market turns, it is as easy as that.

Many years ago I read something along these lines about old popular classic motorcycles with a reputation for being a nice ride. If you ever have the chance to ride one you have to say it is a great ride, because if you don't you obviously don't know what you are talking about. If you purchase one you have to spread the legend of how great a bike they are. If you don't the value may fall when you try and sell it or yours is a bad example and not worth any money. If you criticize it after you sell it you must of just had a bad example that you didn't know how to maintain. If you have not ridden one or owned one your opinion is worthless.

I think a lot in the above paragraph is true and years of one-upmanship and exaggeration have created legends out of average to good bikes. Some of these legends were created by journalists of bike magazines of the day, and if you did not see it like the popular journalist you obviously did not have the riding skill to appreciate a fine motorcycle.   

I am off to go and buy as many CX 500's as I can get. They are a great bike, like a Guzzi but better than any Guzzi ever produced. I hear prices are booming so I should be able to double my money by next year. If anyone has a bad thing to say don't listen they don't know what they are talking about.

Steve Thats right. I think we should all agree right now that we will only say good things about Guzzis.Puff them like crazy so we can all get our money back. Agreed????  Yea!

[weevee]

And then there's the 'reflected glory' effect.  Many who aspire to own the flagship classic can't find the necessary funds, so they buy something with the same DNA that sits a little lower down on the ladder.  This, in turn, leads to a decrease in the availability - and thus an increase in the perceived value - of the lesser model.

To illustrate: Here in the UK, the Honda VFR400R is now seen as a 'classic' and (..despite the glut of them available) its value has soared in recent years because many who buy the bike see it as an acceptable substitute (same DNA) for one they'd really prefer but can't stretch to afford: Honda's flagship classic, the RC30. 

Such is the 'legend' of the bigger bike, that those 400s painted originally in a similar red/white/blue colour-scheme realise twice the price of absolutely identical 400s painted in any other livery.

[Aaron D.]

Mike Hailwood and Paul Smart never raced Moto Guzzi race bikes .

 Dusty

Funny-Hailwood was supposed to but backed out for some reason according to Lino Tonti.

[Rough Edge racing]

GeneW, yours is a great looking GT  modified in a functional way and used for what it was designed.  I love it.  Godfrey D, who I've noted as posting here a couple of times in the past was well known for riding his similar 750GT lots of miles before moving onto Guzzis. Godfrey started Euromoto which was the predecessor of all the US based Italian bike forums and still operates sporadically.

Whatever happened to the '74 750SS that had a zillion miles on it and was ridden every year to Laguna Seca where it could be found parked unceremoniously in a dirt parking area? That was another great one.

Re bevel Ducati repairs... Compared with many modern Ducatis (for example my ST4) and a lot of other modern bikes bevel Ducs are simple to work on.  Some things are tricky, for example setting up the bevel gears on a round case engine (they fixed that on the square cases for 1976) but other things like top end service are super simple: no water jacket, no head gaskets, comes right apart.  If people are charging big bucks for service it's because owners will pay big bucks and because parts are often made in small quantities.  They're really not hard to work on - I even split the crank and replaced the rods and bearings on one of mine years ago.

 Yes,I pulled the cylinders on the 750 I had...I think the engine needed to be dropped down for the rear head removal? I don't remember.The GT's had valve springs with easy adjustments..The "modern" 2 valve belt drive Ducati has no head gaskets and is not bad to work on.
 The 750's had feeble electrical systems , small alternator.. I bought a new 860 rotor and stator, hand machined to side cover for the larger stator and a bit off milling on the rotor to fit it on the 750 crank...What a difference, power for an H4 headlight without the battery going flat all the time.
  The acceleration of my 750 GT was about the same as my friend's 750  Honda. But as someone mentioned here, about 110 mph top end ..
 I would let guys ride it and they always were impressed with the stability and confidence at high speeds..And what Cook Neilson called "hydraulic power", smooth, never felt strained...
   My wife and I were on the Ducati years ago, I was running fast down a two lane road and entered a curve and suddenly the road was littered with crushed stone. The bike violently slid sideways, then gripped, we were almost thrown the bike...The Ducati never wiggled and continued on like nothing happened..It was not my skill as a rider and I believe on any other bike it may have been a nasty spill...

[chuck peterson]

I'll just put these right here......








how to delete quora account

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I am off to go and buy as many CX 500's as I can get. They are a great bike, like a Guzzi but better than any Guzzi ever produced.

 

[jas67]

So I really should grab this then?

1974 GT 750 for $6k?

https://worcester.craigslist.org/mcy/d/superbike-1974-gt/6742612186.html

$6k for that -- definitely not real.  It's a scam.

[blackcat]

I'll just put these right here......








how to delete quora account

About 20years ago I was in the notoriously suspect Ghost Motorcycles on Long Island,NY and he had one in the window for a price of $20K, but that price is from memory. I do remember thinking that was a crazy amount of money.

[analog kid]

I am off to go and buy as many CX 500's as I can get. They are a great bike, like a Guzzi but better than any Guzzi ever produced.

Steve

Yeah, pull the other one. 
I owned 3 GL500s, successor to the CX. Sold the last of them this past June. I still own, and will continue to own Guzzis - they are simply better. Though I'll give the Hondas advantage in control lightness and feel.

I hear prices are booming so I should be able to double my money by next year. If anyone has a bad thing to say don't listen they don't know what they are talking about.

Good luck with that. The only people after the Honda Twisted Twins are morons who own a recip saw, black spray bomb, a roll of pipe wrap and think of themselves as "customizers". The supply of cheap Honda fours had dried up, so they're looking for something else they can destroy into a rolling abortion known as the "cafe racer".
And those guys are cheap...

[redrider90]

  I bought a 73  Ducati 750 GT in 1978.. I rode it daily in good weather for several years and then sold it...It was very reliable and quite the piece compared other bikes of era...Then around 1985 I bought another one...I was real busy with work/divorce/girlfriends so didn't ride it much and sold it after a few years...I don't remember any real problems....My 96 900 Monster is a much better bike but just not 750 bevel drive...
   Reliability is a relative term.. For riders who don't work on their stuff or don't have good tools or the willingness/ability to do repairs, then any repair is a pain in ass..
   
   
     

Reliability reminds of the adjusting the valves on the Ducati. As easy the the Guzzi is to adjust that is how hard it was to adjust the valves on the Ducati. I had a good supply of various thicknesses of "Winkler Caps" but even then I always lacked a few sizes. I often found myself sanding down by hand on a good size piece of old very flat countertop those Winkler caps to get the valves within spec. Round and round I would go making circles on emery cloth to remove a thousandth or 2 to get the cap and valve just right.

[Cam3512]

Try restoring one, when you know nothing about them.  I found an original 1-owner ‘67 Scrambler 250 single a few years back for very short money.  I set out to bring it back to its original racing glory.  I joined 5 different Duc forums and asked a LOT of questions.  It would be DAYS before the same one or two guys would eventually  help me out.  I ask a question here, and I’m inundated with responses in minutes.  Just very different crowds. I’ll take a Guzzi any day.  I will say the early Duc engines are visually a beautiful work of art. 

[jas67]

Try restoring one, when you know nothing about them.  I found an original 1-owner ‘67 Scrambler 250 single a few years back for very short money.  I set out to bring it back to its original racing glory.  I joined 5 different Duc forums and asked a LOT of questions.  It would be DAYS before the same one or two guys would eventually  help me out.  I ask a question here, and I’m inundated with responses in minutes.  Just very different crowds. I’ll take a Guzzi any day.

The motoscrubs forum, that seems to be the main one for the Ducati singles has very little traffic, like, days, sometimes weeks go by without any posts.   So, yeah, when you ask a question, you may never get an answer.

It's definitely much easier to get advice on Guzzis, that's for sure.

I will say the early Duc engines are visually a beautiful work of art.

Definitely!

[reidy]

Analog kid, can you please stop putting the mighty cx500 down. It is obvious that you can't appreciate a true classic. I am working hard here to let the world know the true story on how good they are. I am also trying to let the world know how bad Guzzi's are, especially the 1971 Ambassador. These are quite expensive in Australia and if I can get people to see how poor a motorcycle these are the price will drop to realistic affordable levels. Out of the goodness of my heart I would sell a mighty cx500 even one of the cx500 customs to someone that will really appreciate it whilst simultaneously helping someone out by buying one of these ugly unreliable dog of a motorcycle called an Ambassador. 

I think it is appropriate to add the smiley face here    before someone sends a hit squad around.
If you feel I have harshly misjudged the Ambassador I would be happy to take one as a long term loan for say 5 to 10 years to evaluate it and provide honest feedback.

Steve

[Huzo]

To earn the title "plastic maggot" you have had to attain a high level of cred....

[chuck peterson]

I am off to go and buy as many CX 500's as I can get. They are a great bike, like a Guzzi but better than any Guzzi ever produced. I hear prices are booming so I should be able to double my money by next year. If anyone has a bad thing to say don't listen they don't know what they are talking about.

Steve
[/quote]

Well okay, here ya go..

https://newlondon.craigslist.org/mcy/d/1980-honda-cx-500-custom/6726887890.html

[chuck peterson]

Or a cafe tracker bobber tracked cafed boober?....seen quite a few lately.....

https://vermont.craigslist.org/mcy/d/82-honda-cx500-cafe-racer/6747220863.html

[chuck peterson]

https://westernmass.craigslist.org/mcy/d/1982-honda-gl500-silverwing/6733920880.html

Plain vanilla stock 1982, $1250.

I'll stop now..

[Rough Edge racing]

 The 650 versions of the Honda are starting to be seen in 650cc pushrod class land speed racing..So far ,overall, they cannot match the speed of of our clattering 1930's technology Triumphs..
 I looked at them before I build the 81 Honda 750 cafe racer two years ago...Interesting but like the Virago and Shadow, the shaft drive limits design by the home builder..

[Toecutter]

The 650 versions of the Honda are starting to be seen in 650cc pushrod class land speed racing..So far ,overall, they cannot match the speed of of our clattering 1930's technology Triumphs..
 I looked at them before I build the 81 Honda 750 cafe racer two years ago...Interesting but like the Virago and Shadow, the shaft drive limits design by the home builder..

The lack of space in the frame is what limits customization on the early Shadows. I swear those things were assembled by Keebler Elves.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Analog kid, can you please stop putting the mighty cx500 down. It is obvious that you can't appreciate a true classic. I am working hard here to let the world know the true story on how good they are. I am also trying to let the world know how bad Guzzi's are, especially the 1971 Ambassador. These are quite expensive in Australia and if I can get people to see how poor a motorcycle these are the price will drop to realistic affordable levels. Out of the goodness of my heart I would sell a mighty cx500 even one of the cx500 customs to someone that will really appreciate it whilst simultaneously helping someone out by buying one of these ugly unreliable dog of a motorcycle called an Ambassador. 

I think it is appropriate to add the smiley face here    before someone sends a hit squad around.
If you feel I have harshly misjudged the Ambassador I would be happy to take one as a long term loan for say 5 to 10 years to evaluate it and provide honest feedback.

Steve

Yeah, those Ambassadors are crap. Mine has only gone 110,700 miles - original clutch and u-joint, transmission and bottom-end of the engine have never been apart, rear drive only resealed, top-end rebuilt at 54k (flaky chrome issue). Even those "crap" Dellortos continue to function properly.