Author Topic: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?  (Read 959 times)

Offline mr_pacman

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V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« on: November 14, 2020, 04:48:38 PM »
The previous owner of my 2014 V7 Racer indicated he had broken a bolt in the shift linkage twice in only 1,900km. He suggested I purchase some spare parts but couldn't remember which part it was that was needed.

I then did some online searching and I did find the thread on this website about V7 Stone/Special shift linkage bolts coming loose, but never anything about breaking. Also, the shifter on the Stone and Special models appears to be different than the one on the Racer model.

I found this picture on a different website and some members commented that it happened on their racers, but nobody was able to provide much information as the picture is 5 years old and the members that had commented on it were no longer active on the Reddit MotoGuzzi forum.

Has anyone experienced this issue with the V7 Racer shifter? If so, is it a weakness in the part or is it due to the bolt coming loose and then causing the issue (which would make it somewhat related to the issue of the shifter coming loose as indicated on a thread on this forum)?

Anyone know which part number I should be ordereding for backup parts?


Offline guzzisteve

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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2020, 05:19:28 PM »
Parts Book  === Page 14 group #17 or individual pieces.

https://guzzitek.org/gb/pl_us_uk/750/V7Racer_2012_PL(GB).pdf
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Offline moto-uno

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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2020, 05:45:43 PM »
  Here in Canada we have a business called Princess Auto . Those joints are a dime a dozen and always stocked .
  Many have a hole through the joint which would allow you a metric fastener to slide through . If possible I'd get
a fastener long enough to allow a nut to be used on the opposite side to really secure it . Because they're made
for North America the have inch threads in the connecting ends (1/4" coarse) , buy 2 and some threaded rod and
adjust to your preferred height , and hey it's cheap and is readily available .  Peter

Offline mr_pacman

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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2020, 02:35:20 PM »
Parts Book  === Page 14 group #17 or individual pieces.

https://guzzitek.org/gb/pl_us_uk/750/V7Racer_2012_PL(GB).pdf

Thank you for the link. That looks like part #22 to me (in the #17 group as you indicated).  I've also downloaded the link to that parts catalog as I'm sure it will come in handy in the future.

Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2020, 02:35:20 PM »

Offline mr_pacman

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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2020, 02:36:57 PM »
  Here in Canada we have a business called Princess Auto . Those joints are a dime a dozen and always stocked .
  Many have a hole through the joint which would allow you a metric fastener to slide through . If possible I'd get
a fastener long enough to allow a nut to be used on the opposite side to really secure it . Because they're made
for North America the have inch threads in the connecting ends (1/4" coarse) , buy 2 and some threaded rod and
adjust to your preferred height , and hey it's cheap and is readily available .  Peter

We have a couple of Princess Auto stores here in Calgary. I'll pop over there next weekend and see what they have in stock that might match up with the stock part. I'm not sure if that ball comes out of the socket or if it has to be ordered as a complete part from Moto Guzzi.  Good thing is, with the recent dumping of snow we had, I've got until April 2021 to come up with a solution :)

James

Online Kiwi_Roy

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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2020, 02:48:17 PM »
The ball should not come out of the socket, if it does its broken.
Like the tie rod end on my Ford Granada, it fell out as I was going around a corner, I pushed it back in and tied it there with a piece of rope.
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Offline malik

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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2020, 03:01:22 PM »
I've the Racer rear sets on both my V7's. On the V7C I've broken the stud that threads into the gear lever (as pictured) twice now. The first time it left enough stud to thread what was left in to get me home. The second time, it sheared at the base of the thread. Replaced it with another OEM studded rod end.

The OEM studded rod ends are not the best or most robust examples of their ilk, but they do have the advantage of being serviceable - the wire holder unclips & pulls out, the studded ball can be pulled out of the ball with a little persuasion, and everything can be cleaned. To lubricate, I use white lithium grease. If still notch you once cleaned & lubed, replace the rod end. There are not expensive, even the OEM ones. Some of the aftermarket ones in stainless are somewhat on the pricey side.

A spare pair, one LH threaded, & one RH threaded, are convenient to carry with the rest of the spares on long trips. Otherwise, that length of fencing wire you carry in your toolkit (doesn't everyone?) should get you out of trouble temporality.

Also note that the V7's also have these studded rod ends either side of the tie rod further inside, & down from the gear lever on the selector shaft. The tie rod can be hit by a corner of the swingarm if it is dropped suddenly when removing the wheel. I've had one break, and another bend. It pays to take care, as nobody seems to stock them, and generally unobtainable from Guzzi. Might have better luck chasing Weber carburettor linkages. Ideal if you could get hold of some 6mm hex rod (stainless would be pretty) and have a LH & a RH thread cut.
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Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Charlie

Offline mr_pacman

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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2020, 07:48:53 PM »
Something like this?
https://www.mcmaster.com/9512K52
https://www.mcmaster.com/linkages/corrosion-resistant-ball-socket-end-fittings-with-safety-clip-for-gas-springs-9/

Does anyone have the specs of the stock part so we can cross reference with the McMaster product linked?  Might be nice to get a stainless strong product vs using the factory one which seems to be poor quality.

I'll go down to the parts department and see if they have any stock parts available. Previous owner said they were quite inexpensive so if I can figure out what I need, we can use that as a reference to find something stronger.

Offline tris

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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2020, 09:00:36 AM »
2017 V9 Roamer
2005 Breva 1100 (non ABS) "Bruno" - now sold
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Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2020, 09:18:20 AM »
I use these on Loopframe shift linkages: https://www.mcmaster.com/6275K53
Charlie

Online Kiwi_Roy

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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2020, 10:00:47 AM »
Does anyone have the specs of the stock part so we can cross reference with the McMaster product linked?  Might be nice to get a stainless strong product vs using the factory one which seems to be poor quality.

I'll go down to the parts department and see if they have any stock parts available. Previous owner said they were quite inexpensive so if I can figure out what I need, we can use that as a reference to find something stronger.
I'm pretty sure it's M6 x 1, the bolt looks like an M8 thread, I will take a look at mine today. Its 6 x 1 everywhere on both linkages V7III Special
You don't really need Left and Right hand threaded ends its just a matter of dropping one end out and turning it one turn to adjust the length.
As a temporary fix extract the ball and drill right through so you can replace it with a nut and bolt.
Excuse my sketch
« Last Edit: November 17, 2020, 04:04:39 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline mr_pacman

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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2021, 10:37:43 AM »
I'll bump this thread since I started it. Last night I was riding about 15km away from my house in downtown Calgary and shifted from 1st to 2nd and the bike went to neutral. Shifter arm was flopping around and I looked down and my bike looked exactly like the bike in the picture in the first post.   The threaded portion had sheared off and the broken piece was flush so I couldn't remove it.  There was a bit of threaded portion left on the broken arm that I suspect I could have got into the shifter but that broken piece was not coming out.

I got it into 1st gear and nursed it home at 30km/hr which wasn't great.

I did order a few spares of these parts on the suggestion of this thread, but they were at home. Anyhow, I got the new one installed last night but now I'm thinking it might be a good idea to have the left hand joint, right hand joint and then the long screw that has right hand threads on one part and left hand threads on the other part.

Is this only affecting people with Racer models or are the Stones and Specials doing this as well?

This bike has 3,000km on it and the original owner went through 2 of these in 1,900 KM and now I've just broken one in the last 1,000km.  There has to be a better part out there or is this unique to the Racer model shift lever and only happening to a small percentage of V7 owners?

Online jhem68

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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2021, 11:35:35 AM »
Bad Chads' V9 Roamer had the same thing happen to it at the Iowa rally 3 weeks ago. Looked just like your picture in the original post.
I would consider it odd that it would break like that if it was threaded all the way in and had not loosened over time and through use.  Otherwise, wouldn't the remaining threads on the heim joint and in the shift arm plate have damage from being pulled apart?

When I got home from Iowa and checked my Sato rear set shift joint it too was out about a turn and one half. Sato recommends using a thread locker which I failed to do. 

So perhaps checking this for tightness and applying a mild thread lock of one brand or another would give a more positive result.

Any other thoughts?



John

Offline mr_pacman

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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2021, 12:03:29 PM »
Bad Chads' V9 Roamer had the same thing happen to it at the Iowa rally 3 weeks ago. Looked just like your picture in the original post.
I would consider it odd that it would break like that if it was threaded all the way in and had not loosened over time and through use.  Otherwise, wouldn't the remaining threads on the heim joint and in the shift arm plate have damage from being pulled apart?

When I got home from Iowa and checked my Sato rear set shift joint it too was out about a turn and one half. Sato recommends using a thread locker which I failed to do. 

So perhaps checking this for tightness and applying a mild thread lock of one brand or another would give a more positive result.

Any other thoughts?



John

There is a nut on the threaded post of the Heim joint that snugs up against the plate, which I suspect it to stop the threaded post (that goes into the shifter plate) from backing out. When I first got the part, I assumed that nut would go on the outside of the shifter plate as that would lock the threaded post in place. However, every single picture I've found online of a V7 racer shifter setup has the bolt on the inside of the plate.

I don't think the threaded post is being pulled apart under tension but is shearing off due to parallel force from the up and down shifts.

I'm not sure I understand how the threaded post being loose could cause this to happen, but I'm also not very knowledgeable when it comes to mechanical or engineering.  Would the threaded bolt backing out of the shifter plate cause more stress on that part vs it being snugged up? I just had the bolt set to be flush with the outside of the plate (like the pictures show below) but the bolt is long enough to protrude through the hole on the shifter plate.  If you look at the picture of the broken bolt that I posted, there are still some threads there.

With the way mine broke last night, the threaded part that sheared off was still in the hole in the shifter plate and was totally flush. There was nothing to grab onto to pull it out. I figured I was going to have to drill it out carefully or perhaps try one of those reverse bolt extractor kits. However, I was fortunate that it must have vibrated out by the time I got home.  If I had threadlocker in there, I don't know if I would have been able to get it out at all.

Here are some pictures of other V7 shifter setups that show the threaded post in the hold with, what I assume, is the bolt on the other side snugging  it up against the inside of the plate.






Offline RinkRat II

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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2021, 01:09:14 PM »

    A couple of things I've noticed in your pics. First pic shows wear on the socket of the joint from not having the sockets in line with each other. Because the two posts are in a straight line with each other, the sockets need to be as parallel as possible. ( think laying them on a flat surface) In your second set of pics, I see the sockets used have a safety retainer to hold the post from popping out. When installing the linkage these sockets need to be removed before tightening the posts .  Then the length adjustment can be made to have the sockets free of any pre load from the shift arm or the pedal. These joints only really have a mm or so flexibility, especially when they are this short in length. May be a leading cause of multiple  failures.  My $.02

      Paul B :boozing:
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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2021, 01:48:59 PM »
Jhem68 and cohort Jim B, saved my bacon at Iowa!  I literally, after riding hundreds of miles to the rally, pulled into the camp site, went to put it in N, and the bolt snapped right there!   John and Jim ran a pony express operation with John calling Jim in Milwaukee, getting him to drive to Johns house in South Central WI, find the hem joint and then drive across the state to the IA rally!   I was in town at lunch, and when we got back to the rally, John had fixed my bike for me!   Hollywood couldn't have written a better script!

My bolt broke just the same as the OP post pic.   You could see that the bolt had a crack in it first, because there was rust in the center of the broken bolt shaft, but none on the outer diam.   As said earlier, the only way the bolt could break the way it did, in the pic, and in my case, is for the bolt to have either never been fully tightend up to the plate, or it backed out a few millimeters  and then broke. 
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Offline guzzisteve

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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2021, 02:33:01 PM »
What I would do is make sure it all moves like BUTTER . The shaft in frame that pivots the whole thing has been an issue ever since I can remember. It's bushings, bay better stuff out there.  I would think that will take the stress off.
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Offline WHY

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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2021, 02:33:58 PM »
Happen to my 2011 Racer twice during the first 3 years of ownership. after it snapped the second time I just make a habit of tighten it once a year and never happen again in the past 7 years or so. I still carry a spare with me in the tool pouch which cost me around $10 back then at a Guzzi dealership. (don't forget there should be a spacer also, you most likely drop and lost that when the bolt snapped)
2011 V7 Racer

Online jhem68

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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2021, 02:51:21 PM »
Looking at the spare parts info on This Old Tractor,  a 2013 Racer model has a spacer (part # 886668) between the heim jont and the shift plate, but not a nut.  Hmm

I think this relates to the post by RinkRatII.

And I agree that it is shear, but I would suspect that is because all the forces are bearing on the inside diameter of the threads and not having the face of the spacer or flange tight against the shift plate which would limit the tendency to apply the forces to the weakest part of the fitting.

Otherwise why is it not shearing on the other joint? The flange is tight against the arm and not allowing flex at the threads is my guess.

I know that when I took my fitting off my stock Milano shift plate to transfer to Chads Roamer, It was tight threads all the way out and had a light grey coating on the threads, I just assumed it was an application of a mild thread lock of some sort. It did not break loose and then turn out by hand.

But of course I could be wrong! Just my thoughts.

John

Offline mr_pacman

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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2021, 02:56:36 PM »
Happen to my 2011 Racer twice during the first 3 years of ownership. after it snapped the second time I just make a habit of tighten it once a year and never happen again in the past 7 years or so. I still carry a spare with me in the tool pouch which cost me around $10 back then at a Guzzi dealership. (don't forget there should be a spacer also, you most likely drop and lost that when the bolt snapped)

By spacer, is that the threaded bolt that goes on the inside of the shifter plate?  Number 16 in the below image?  if so, that was still attached on my broken part of the bolt and the new replacement heim joint came with one as well.  If there is something else that I'm missing, could you please post a picture of yours if possible?

So keeping that bolt tight is what you do each year or you tighten up other things as well on the shift linkage?



Offline mr_pacman

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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2021, 02:59:35 PM »
Looking at the spare parts info on This Old Tractor,  a 2013 Racer model has a spacer (part # 886668) between the heim jont and the shift plate, but not a nut.  Hmm

I think this relates to the post by RinkRatII.

And I agree that it is shear, but I would suspect that is because all the forces are bearing on the inside diameter of the threads and not having the face of the spacer or flange tight against the shift plate which would limit the tendency to apply the forces to the weakest part of the fitting.

Otherwise why is it not shearing on the other joint? The flange is tight against the arm and not allowing flex at the threads is my guess.

I know that when I took my fitting off my stock Milano shift plate to transfer to Chads Roamer, It was tight threads all the way out and had a light grey coating on the threads, I just assumed it was an application of a mild thread lock of some sort. It did not break loose and then turn out by hand.

But of course I could be wrong! Just my thoughts.

John

So this is interesting as @WHY also indicated there is a spacer. I posted a diagram of the exploded parts and I can't tell if part # 16 is the threaded nut that came with my heim joint or if there is another spacer as well as the threaded nut.  If it's the later, then perhaps that could be causing the issue.

From the picture, I can't see a bolt on the heim joint in the picture so it's difficult to tell.

Thinking about it, perhaps the threaded nut is there to put tension on this "spacer" as I can't think of why the nut is there in the first place.

This is what the part looks like that I got from the dealer. It's got a threaded nut on it:

http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=805

« Last Edit: July 29, 2021, 03:07:22 PM by mr_pacman »

Offline WHY

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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2021, 04:50:16 PM »
#16 in your diagram is the spacer I was referring to. it is not threaded and just slide on the "bolted ball joint" (#22) to make sure you wont over tighten and bending the gear lever (#1) toward the bike's frame. I just make sure #19,#21 and #22 are not loose and its been fine for some years


The circuited part is not the spacer.  use a pliers or small wrench to tighten it toward part #15 with the #16 spacer sandwich between it.



« Last Edit: July 29, 2021, 05:12:48 PM by WHY »
2011 V7 Racer

Offline mr_pacman

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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2021, 05:09:34 PM »
#16 in your diagram is the spacer I was referring to. it is not threaded and just slide on the "bolted ball joint" (#22) to make sure you wont over tighten and bending the gear lever (#1) toward the bike's frame. I just make sure #19,#21 and #22 are not loose and its been fine for some years


The circuited part is not the spacer. so slide the spacer in first and use a plier or wrench to tighten it toward part #15.





Perfect, so that nut tightens against the spacer?  Now it all makes sense as to why this one probably had multiple failures.

I'll order a few of each part so just I have them as spares. I've got one on there for now without the spacer which should last me until the end of the riding season.

Thanks again for all of the help.
James

Offline RinkRat II

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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2021, 05:40:37 PM »


           
Quote
Perfect, so that nut tightens against the spacer?
      NO.   That nut which is #5 in your drawing only goes on the transmission side of the linkage as the arm is not threaded. The end your working on gets the stud, spacer and threads into the arm #1.  Hope this helps.

       Paul B :boozing:
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Offline mr_pacman

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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2021, 05:47:20 PM »

                  NO.   That nut which is #5 in your drawing only goes on the transmission side of the linkage as the arm is not threaded. The end your working on gets the stud, spacer and threads into the arm #1.  Hope this helps.

       Paul B :boozing:

So what stops the spacer from moving around if it's not threaded?

Offline RinkRat II

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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2021, 05:57:01 PM »

      When you tighten the stud it will be captured between the shoulder of the stud and the lever. The spacer should not be a very loose fit on the stud and allows the threads to not bottom out on the lever

      Paul B
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Offline Muzz

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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2021, 08:12:51 PM »
I think the similar part on my Breva is actually longer.  I noticed it had bent twice, and there vare two reasons.
(1) The pushrod is not at 90 degrees to the two levers that actuate the gear change.
(2) The rod is too small and the heim joints are flimsy.

My solution. (Sorry can't show photos because on the Breva it is a bit awkward to see.  I purchased two quality Heim joints; these had a longer shank.  I took careful measurements  of where the gearchange lever should be and carefully turned down some 12mm bright steel and threaded the ends so that by the time the the joints were screwed on there was basically no turned thread left showing.  Lets face it, once you have set the height of the gearchange lever to where you want it you will never need to adjust it again.

My Warrant of Fitness guy picked up that there was a bit of lateral movement where the gearchange shaft goes through the frame.  I turned up a bush out of low friction plastic and put it on the wheel side of the frame to make the pushrod as vertical as possible.

The setup has been absolutely trouble free, and with the lateral play removed and the pushrod moved to a more vertical position, the gearbox changes are much sweeter.
Muzz. Cristchurch, New Zealand
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Offline mr_pacman

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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2021, 08:01:09 PM »
Does anyone know where to get part #20 (Shift linkage rod) on the diagram?  It's a post that threaded right handed on one side and left hand threads on the other side. Guzzi dealership can only order the entire group of parts and it's a 4 month wait.

I did google searching but not really sure what the part is called that I'm looking for.


Offline Muzz

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Re: V7 Racer broken shifter bolt linkage?
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2021, 04:21:49 AM »
Pacman, I would make my own.  Simply replace the LH thread end with a normal Heim joint.  Let's face it, it only needs to be set up once and then it's fine for the life of the bike while you own it.

As I said, I made mine from 1/2" bright steel rod with basically no thread left showing.  It was the threaded part that was weak and kept bending.
Muzz. Cristchurch, New Zealand
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Ya wake up in the morning and it's there

 

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