Author Topic: 1970 Ambassador Restoration (Read 12501 times)

KJDub · « **Reply #30 on:** July 06, 2019, 12:12:10 AM »

Hi all, finally set aside some time to work on my Ambo. Removed both wheels, found I couldn't turn any of the bearings with a finger stuffed in them. Were they rotating on the axles? No obvious signs of wear on the axles. Not sure how to remove the bearings, there are sleeves in the inner races. How do I get those out? I've done this on other bikes but the sleeves get in the way. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
Removed the forks and replaced the steering stem bearings. Originals felt notchy, found corrosion upon inspection. One fork slider felt a bit loose, other felt ok. Will clean and replace oil, potential rebuild saved for the future.
Removed heads and inspected cylinders. Looked good, cross hatching apparent, slight golden brown tint, appear to be nikasil as claimed by PO. Will replace gaskets and reassemble, checking for magnetism as final precaution prior to.
Dropped oil pan, poked around in sludge, didn't find any obvious flakes of chrome. Did find a piece of steel (magnetic, stuck to screwdriver) About .020" wide by a few thou thick x 1/2" long. Not worried, have found much worse in other bikes (a gear tooth in a Ducati single sump, rode the piss out of it with any problem, now next in the rebuild queue when I get the cylinder back from boring for the 10:1 piston).
Love this bike, did all of the above with my buddy and co-owner Rees in about 8 hrs. Our goal is to get the bike back on the road in good mechanical condition but retaining the patina due its age.
Best to all!
Ken W

pehayes · « **Reply #31 on:** July 06, 2019, 12:21:54 AM »

See here for wheel bearing and fork reconstruction issues.

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe.html

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Antietam Classic Cycle · « **Reply #32 on:** July 06, 2019, 08:47:02 AM »

Quote from: KJDub on July 06, 2019, 12:12:10 AM

Hi all, finally set aside some time to work on my Ambo. Removed both wheels, found I couldn't turn any of the bearings with a finger stuffed in them. Were they rotating on the axles? No obvious signs of wear on the axles. Not sure how to remove the bearings, there are sleeves in the inner races. How do I get those out? I've done this on other bikes but the sleeves get in the way. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

If it has fresh seals, you might not be able to turn them with your finger. But, it's a good idea to clean and repack the wheel bearings on any Loop you don't know the maintenance history of. Once the seal is removed, the (tapered roller) bearing race with "sleeves" will come right out. No need to remove the "sleeves" unless you're replacing the bearing. The seals can be removed with a paint can opener, best to have new seals on hand though. Do keep track of the shims.

KJDub · « **Reply #33 on:** July 06, 2019, 01:03:24 PM »

Hi Charlie, thanks for the advice! Are the seals a standard item available at bearing supply houses? I looked on the MG Cycle website and didn't find any listed.
Best, Ken

Wildguzzi.com · « **Reply #33 on:** July 06, 2019, 01:03:24 PM »

Antietam Classic Cycle · « **Reply #34 on:** July 06, 2019, 02:35:50 PM »

Quote from: KJDub on July 06, 2019, 01:03:24 PM

Hi Charlie, thanks for the advice! Are the seals a standard item available at bearing supply houses? I looked on the MG Cycle website and didn't find any listed.
Best, Ken

Odd size, likely special order from any bearing supply retailer. I buy mine from MG Cycle:
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=79&products_id=1358

KJDub · « **Reply #35 on:** July 07, 2019, 11:08:22 PM »

Thanks Charlie. Somehow I overlooked that item when searching the MG Cycle website.
Are the shims located in the center, between the two sleeves?
Thanks again, Ken

Antietam Classic Cycle · « **Reply #36 on:** July 08, 2019, 08:51:09 AM »

Quote from: KJDub on July 07, 2019, 11:08:22 PM

Thanks Charlie. Somehow I overlooked that item when searching the MG Cycle website.
Are the shims located in the center, between the two sleeves?
Thanks again, Ken

There will be a central spacer tube and one or more shims. The shims are usually at only one end of the tube and tend to stick on the inner side of the bearing.

Markcarovilli · « **Reply #37 on:** July 08, 2019, 08:55:55 AM »

Charlie

wondering,,,,,just had mine apart and didn't find any shims. I remember thinking it odd, but it seems to spin fine. Should this be the case and where can do you buy shims?

thanks,

Mark

Antietam Classic Cycle · « **Reply #38 on:** July 08, 2019, 09:53:47 AM »

Quote from: Markcarovilli on July 08, 2019, 08:55:55 AM

Charlie

wondering,,,,,just had mine apart and didn't find any shims. I remember thinking it odd, but it seems to spin fine. Should this be the case and where can do you buy shims?

thanks,

Mark

The shims were probably stuck to one or the other of the bearings. They'll stay put even through cleaning and repacking of the bearing. I need to use a magnet and/or pick to get them loose most of the time.

Best practice to check shimming is clean everything, don't grease the bearings (just light oil), no seals, assemble on an axle with the nut tightened down. Very slight play is okay, tight is not.

I buy "generic" shims from McMaster-Carr.
http://thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_wheel_bearing_shims.html

Markcarovilli · « **Reply #39 on:** July 08, 2019, 10:08:12 AM »

Charlie

thanks for that - next time I have the wheel off I'll double check

Mark

KJDub · « **Reply #40 on:** July 31, 2019, 07:55:04 PM »

Removed the seals from the wheel bearings and found that the bearings did rotate freely without them. There was just a film of grease on the bearings, it looked like they had never been repacked. Wiped the grease from the outer races, found small pits in three of them and a small chip of metal in one! So time for new bearings, ordered them from MG Cycles. My blind bearing puller doesn't have a big enough collet for these bearings. How have others removed the outer races from the hubs?
Thanks for your suggestions!
Best, Ken

Antietam Classic Cycle · « **Reply #41 on:** July 31, 2019, 08:12:07 PM »

Quote from: KJDub on July 31, 2019, 07:55:04 PM

How have others removed the outer races from the hubs?

I just (carefully) drive them out from behind with a long brass drift and hammer.

KJDub · « **Reply #42 on:** August 21, 2019, 06:14:53 PM »

Turns out that the Motion Pro steering race remover works perfectly on the wheel bearing races! My partner on the project bought one for replacing the steering bearings, so we doubled the utility of that tool!

Ken

KJDub · « **Reply #43 on:** August 21, 2019, 06:31:25 PM »

Hmmm, I see that McMaster Carr sells shims in packs of 25! Anybody have any shims they want to sell? I'm making a spacer to allow me to torque things up before checking clearance, off to use my friend's lathe. After that I should have some idea what thicknesses I may need.

Ken

Antietam Classic Cycle · « **Reply #44 on:** August 21, 2019, 08:24:22 PM »

Quote from: KJDub on August 21, 2019, 06:31:25 PM

Hmmm, I see that McMaster Carr sells shims in packs of 25! Anybody have any shims they want to sell? I'm making a spacer to allow me to torque things up before checking clearance, off to use my friend's lathe. After that I should have some idea what thicknesses I may need.

Ken

I may have some, depending on what thickness you need.

KJDub · « **Reply #45 on:** August 22, 2019, 02:33:00 PM »

Made the spacer last night, assembled each wheel/axle/bearing, torqued it up and measured end float with a dial gage. Rear had .004"-.005", front had .003"-.004". Each assembly had only one shim, rear was .130" thick, front was .150" thick. The end float seems a bit high, reading on this old tractor suggests .002". Looks like I have to get some shorter shims in a selection of thicknesses to get to where they should be. Any comments or suggestions?
Thanks!
Ken

Antietam Classic Cycle · « **Reply #46 on:** August 22, 2019, 03:32:41 PM »

Quote from: KJDub on August 22, 2019, 02:33:00 PM

Made the spacer last night, assembled each wheel/axle/bearing, torqued it up and measured end float with a dial gage. Rear had .004"-.005", front had .003"-.004". Each assembly had only one shim, rear was .130" thick, front was .150" thick. The end float seems a bit high, reading on this old tractor suggests .002". Looks like I have to get some shorter shims in a selection of thicknesses to get to where they should be. Any comments or suggestions?
Thanks!
Ken

Use emery paper to reduce the thickness of the shims or length of the spacer?

Tom H · « **Reply #47 on:** August 22, 2019, 04:06:26 PM »

If you let me or Charlie know the length of shim you need in MM instead of inches, I probably have enough to send you. I have to find them and see what I have. Or just buy 1 bag of each metric shims, like .2 and .3mm. You can combine them to make odd or even lengths.

You would need to replace your stock thick shims with a set of shims that make the correct length.

Tom

KJDub · « **Reply #48 on:** August 22, 2019, 05:33:19 PM »

Quote from: Antietam Classic Cycle on August 22, 2019, 03:32:41 PM

Use emery paper to reduce the thickness of the shims or length of the spacer?

Charlie,
I had my doubts about this method, having tried it on Ducati single opening valve shims many yrs ago. Those things are hard, you could sand for a long time to take a thou off! But nothing ventured nothing gained. So I mounted a hose clamp on a 20mm impact socket, extending just far enough to capture the shim. Got out my handy-dandy stone rolling plate and laid down a sheet of 220 sandpaper. It took minutes of clockwise and counter clockwise motion gripping the socket and pressing down lightly to take off a thou or two. Ok, I'm dead nuts on with .002-.003" end float. Clearly the shims are not hardened, no need. Thanks for the idea!

Tom, appreciate the offer of shims, doesn't look like I will need them.

You guys are great!

Best, Ken

KJDub · « **Reply #49 on:** August 23, 2019, 08:15:48 PM »

Being a belt and suspenders man, I also ordered shims from McMaster Carr. No big deal, only $20. So now I will shortly have 10 1mm shims and 25 0.1mm shims. Anybody need them, contact me and I will forward them at no charge.
Best, Ken

KJDub · « **Reply #50 on:** August 22, 2020, 10:27:35 PM »

Hi All, Long hiatus now making progress again. New wheel bearings installed, new steering stem bearings installed. Heads pulled to confirm nikasil (yes), oil pan pulled to poke thru sludge for chrome bits (no). Forks disassembled for new seals and bushings, waiting for paint on sliders to cure before reassembly. Brakes disassembled, cleaned, lubed, reassembled, next step is arcing shoes to match deglazed drums. Fasteners being derusted using oxalic acid, this process has been working fairly well.
Question: how is the crank arm on the rear brake pivot shaft removed? This is the shaft that the foot lever is mounted on. Need to remove it, derust it, polish up the shaft where it pivots in the frame and lube things up. I have removed the clamp bolt but have been unable to get the arm to move on the shaft. Is there a key? Splines? Just a tight press fit?
Thanks for your help!
Ken

Antietam Classic Cycle · « **Reply #51 on:** August 23, 2020, 08:07:55 AM »

Quote from: KJDub on August 22, 2020, 10:27:35 PM

Question: how is the crank arm on the rear brake pivot shaft removed? This is the shaft that the foot lever is mounted on. Need to remove it, derust it, polish up the shaft where it pivots in the frame and lube things up. I have removed the clamp bolt but have been unable to get the arm to move on the shaft. Is there a key? Splines? Just a tight press fit?

Did you remove the circlip on the left outer end of the shaft? Once the pinch bolt is removed from the bellcrank, I use a small hammer to drive it off of the splines, while pulling the shaft out to the right.

KJDub · « **Reply #52 on:** August 23, 2020, 01:13:37 PM »

Thanks Charlie, I'll give that a shot today.
KJ

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Author Topic: 1970 Ambassador Restoration (Read 12501 times)

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