V85 80HP motor to be used in road bike?!?

[Lcarlson]

Until last month, I hadn�t owned a mid-size motorcycle in years, thought I needed more.  But then I rented a mid-size GS for a week-long tour in Northern California. To my surprise, it did EVERYTHING I needed it to do, and did it really well, from dirt roads and construction zones to high speeds on the freeways. It became apparent that I�ve been buying more motorcycle than I needed for quite a while. So, I bought a new one when I got home.




OGC: for the same reason, the V85 looks promising, but I suspect we won�t actually be able to get them for quite a while.

[mjptexas]

Actually I have daily contact with more than one motorcycle rider who is in that age bracket , you don't think I spend all of my time hanging with you old guys do you ? In fact about ten of those guys and a couple of girls are joining me for a small get together in September .

 Dusty

Dusty running amuck with a mixed group of Millennials?  This can't end well. 

[twowings]

Could this be the beginning of a new, hip, trendier Dusty??  Or just the beginning of a trend towards [the installation of] a new hip??

Stay tuned! 

[oldbike54]

Could this be the beginning of a new, hip, trendier Dusty??  Or just the beginning of a trend towards a new hip??

Stay tuned! 

 Not likely , "hip" costs money , cool on the other hand is free .

 Dusty

[LowRyter]

Dusty running amuck with a mixed group of Millennials?  This can't end well. 

.....sounds like the premise of a Cohen Bros movie.   

[Huzo]

.....sounds like the premise of a Cohen Bros movie.   

Jim Carrey and a comedic John Travolta for mine..

[Rough Edge racing]

.....sounds like the premise of a Cohen Bros movie.   

  Hmmm, like when the guy get thrown into the wood chipper?  Or the guy who kills people with air gun?   

[elvisboy77]

Until they get 250 HP out of the 750 cc engine, I ain't buying another Guzzi.  You need to have at LEAST this much horsepower to have decent performance, otherwise the thing is just too dang slow. 
Geez, Guzzi, we need a Hayabusa but twice the horsepower of that.  Why can't you be another Honda/Suzuki/Honda/Yamaha/Harley and make "decent" bikes.  I am shocked that you are still in business.

[Rough Edge racing]

 Well, not 250 HP from a 750 but a bit over 200 HP from an 800 cc two stroke Polaris sled motor....This is at Dynotech where i dyno my race bikes..You think it might be a bit top end peaky ?

       

 

[Matteo]

Funny they picked a beefy test rider, should have a good suspension 

[twowheeladdict]

I always shake my head when the first thing someone posts is that a Guzzi needs Ohlins.  Is there a bike on the market with Ohlins suspension that doesn't cost over 15 grand?  I honestly don't know but I can't remember seeing one.  Ohlins on a Guzzi is like a homely girl getting a set of bolt-ons.  It doesn't magically transform her into a knockout.   

I'd rather see an V85 powered sporty standard with CX or 1000S styling, decent suspension by Marzocchi or Sachs and a price point under or around 12k.  They might as well discontinue the V9 or upgrade the V7 by using the V9 engine in it.

As a previous poster said, the V85 will have roughly 900SS stock horsepower and probably be 30-40lbs heavier.  My 93' 900SS had a 944cc upgrade, flatslides and cored mufflers and I still wasn't overawed by the power but it was certainly adequate.             

V7 Racer.  Add Ohlins to the front for another grand.  At today's market value you will come away under $10k. 

Ohlins are actually around the same price as other comparable suspension components from other companies.  I agree that it doesn't need to be Ohlins, just that by saying Ohlins everyone knows I am saying good suspension without having to go into details. 

[voncrump]

For those Guzzi people that have ridden a few small blocks it’s not hard to imagine a revvy engine like a Lario or a V50 combined with the bottom end pull of the V7 series.
It Could be a game changer for Guzzi.
All they have to do now is style it right and make it reliable.





This bike would get my money.
Cheers, voncrump

[rdbandkab]

Toss that engine in a naked (or semi-naked) standard with room for two, and I'm in.   We'll be ready by the time this thing would come out.

[twowings]

Give me a woman who'll ride naked and I'M IN....

[Warren Rhen]

So this new motor is still a two valve ?

 I ain't believing the power figures until someone does some actual Dyno runs .

 Dusty

That power rating is certainly believable. I mean a 2 valve, air cooled ducati w/sophisticated valve gear is certainly in the 100hp per liter clas w/no stress. Just sayin

[oldbike54]

That power rating is certainly believable. I mean a 2 valve, air cooled ducati w/sophisticated valve gear is certainly in the 100hp per liter clas w/no stress. Just sayin

 OHC and higher RPM .

 Dusty

[jas67]

Funny they picked a beefy test rider, should have a good suspension 

Realistic testing right there.   

[rtbickel]

Funny they picked a beefy test rider, should have a good suspension 

Well, if it will haul that portly Italian, it should work just fine for me

[Rough Edge racing]

OHC and higher RPM .

 Dusty

  My 96 900  Monster  2 valve air cooled is rated by Ducati at 73 rear wheel HP at 7000 rpm...I've also seen a 82  crankshaft HP rating at 7100 rpm.The 96 still has the bigger valve and cam V2 heads..With an accurate tachometer the engine pulls hard past 8000 rpm and in lower gears near 9000 rpm before the power seems to fade...This is a stock but tuned carburetor engine..
  From what I read on Ducati websites, the engine can make about 100 hp with some modification but like most two valvers, it becomes very lumpy with a narrow power band.

[Kev m]

I said I wasn't going to wade into this but screw it....

* I assume (and I hope most agree) the "claimed" 80 hp figure is crank.

* Motorcycle.com got 48 rwhp on a V7 III and didn't someone here just post a dyno run of a V7 III with a reflash just north of 50 hp.

* MCN put Jenn's Duc (696) at 68 rwhp, Cycleworld has 66 rwhp, all vs an original clamied 79 at the crank (@ 9000 rpm), looks like Ducati later revised that figure to 74 hp @ crank when they got called out on their testing method and re-rated about a decade's worth of bike specs.

Looks like the Hemi head can breath a little better and has some room to work with, also looks like a 700cc 2V, aircooled Duc can get close to that claimed hp.... and the current EU IV or V or whatever 797 is rated 73 crank hp @ 8250.

So although I don't really care if the new 2V, air-cooled, 850cc Guzzi model actually make 80 hp or 70 hp at the crank, I bet it's going to have a kick over the current 750 for those who want it, and will likely be a blast.

Yeah, maybe Guzzi is playing a little hard and fast with the facts, like the guys on Top Gear have joked about with Italian manufacturers before. OK, whatever... I'm good, move on, nothing to worry about here.



Based on all that real world data I'm going to throw out a rwhp guess of 68 rwhp when one finally gets dyno'd (Huzo, block and copy that for reference).


IF that becomes a reality, that would represent a ~70% increase in power over the V7C and the Stone/Special/Racer V7 I and II.

If that becomes a reality, that would represent a ~42% increase in power over the V7 III.

Those all sound like pretty good numbers and a reasonable prediction.

Of course they're all SWAGs, but time will tell and I'll be interested to see how good a SWAG it was.

[Vagrant]

For those Guzzi people that have ridden a few small blocks it�s not hard to imagine a revvy engine like a Lario or a V50 combined with the bottom end pull of the V7 series.
It Could be a game changer for Guzzi.
All they have to do now is style it right and make it reliable.





If that was on a show room floor I would. buy regardless
Of price!


This bike would get my money.

[bigbikerrick]

I would love to see Guzzi build a modern LeMans with that engine. Of course ,it would have to have good quality suspension, and comfortable sport touring ergos. I think the mid sized market is what is selling these days, and a beautiful bike like the V7 racer will always sell....We know Guzzi knows how to build beautiful bikes, and people buy motorcycles based on  looks/emotion.....It could be the best handling, powerful, machine, but if it does not look beautiful ,it wont sell.
Many of the mid sized bikes these days, although great bikes, they look like insects. Italian stuff has always been about design, and beauty. Guzzi needs to use that Italian flair, or panache' to their advantage.
Rick.

[Huzo]

Duly noted along with the others Kev.

[TimmyTheHog]

I said I wasn't going to wade into this but screw it....

* I assume (and I hope most agree) the "claimed" 80 hp figure is crank.

* Motorcycle.com got 48 rwhp on a V7 III and didn't someone here just post a dyno run of a V7 III with a reflash just north of 50 hp.

* MCN put Jenn's Duc (696) at 68 rwhp, Cycleworld has 66 rwhp, all vs an original clamied 79 at the crank (@ 9000 rpm), looks like Ducati later revised that figure to 74 hp @ crank when they got called out on their testing method and re-rated about a decade's worth of bike specs.

Looks like the Hemi head can breath a little better and has some room to work with, also looks like a 700cc 2V, aircooled Duc can get close to that claimed hp.... and the current EU IV or V or whatever 797 is rated 73 crank hp @ 8250.

So although I don't really care if the new 2V, air-cooled, 850cc Guzzi model actually make 80 hp or 70 hp at the crank, I bet it's going to have a kick over the current 750 for those who want it, and will likely be a blast.

Yeah, maybe Guzzi is playing a little hard and fast with the facts, like the guys on Top Gear have joked about with Italian manufacturers before. OK, whatever... I'm good, move on, nothing to worry about here.



Based on all that real world data I'm going to throw out a rwhp guess of 68 rwhp when one finally gets dyno'd (Huzo, block and copy that for reference).


IF that becomes a reality, that would represent a ~70% increase in power over the V7C and the Stone/Special/Racer V7 I and II.

If that becomes a reality, that would represent a ~42% increase in power over the V7 III.

Those all sound like pretty good numbers and a reasonable prediction.

Of course they're all SWAGs, but time will tell and I'll be interested to see how good a SWAG it was.

I like data therefore I like to read this :P

but honestly tho, anything more out of that 2V engine will already be an upgrade of something that already works decently well in this normal world...

Granted, it aint a super bike. but if you want one, go get a superbike...of course one could wish Guzzi get back to making one...that will be a different thread for another time.

Honestly, if it is comfy, it pulls like a train (relatively), satisfy my 2wheels obsession and NOT adding too much of electronic mumble jumbles...why not?

Look can be subjective, and I won't go into that...again :P

until Guzzi comes out with more "official data", all current data are just speculation numbers.

Funny they picked a beefy test rider, should have a good suspension 

Let just say I have high hope for a better suspension with this test ride LOL...

[M0T0Geezer]

80 hp would make a credible touring machine.  What a fantastic "precision size" Norge it would make. I think Moto Guzzi "Seal" would be the best name for this new 'Beemer Buster.

'Geezer

[Dogwalker]

80ps (not imperial hp, even if there is little difference) form a 850cc, two valves, air cooled, long stroke engine (so 0.94ps/l specific power) is a very high figure.
That specific power is higher than any current production Ducati two valves engine, despite those having shorter stroke (so lower average piston speed), larger bore (so bigger valves) and OHC, and it's not like Ducati doesn't try to extract any hp it can from its engines.
It's the same of the BMW R NineT, that has bigger displacement, but shorter stroke than the V85, 4V and DOHC.
That said, Moto Guzzi had not "played a little hard and fast" wit power specs with the new engines they introduced in the last 10 years. The 930 of the Bellagio, the 1200 4V, the V9 and V7III all had measured RWHP compatible with claimed crank specs, and even a bit "conservative" (less than 10% loss).
So I expect a claimed 80ps V85 to have about 72ps at the rear wheel.

BTW, the claimed power at the crank for the Ducati Scrambler 800 pre Euro-IV was 75ps, reduced to 73ps with the Euro-IV.

[Rough Edge racing]

 I don't know if the current two valve Ducati heads are better than the 90's heads...But...the intake ports are not the best design for maximum output..better designs have higher intake port floors with more velocity..But, in my opinion,...what matters is available power during sporting street riding..Ducati two valve and Guzzi don't seem to have a problem here...

[jas67]

... in my opinion,...what matters is available power during sporting street riding..Ducati two valve and Guzzi don't seem to have a problem here...

 

As the owner of a two-valve Ducati, and several Guzzis, I agree.

The V7III definitely delivers power for street riding nicely.   The more a ride it, the more I like it.
I just got back from a ride on the Monster 796.    Except when riding aggressively, when accelerating on the street, I usually shift by 6,500 RPM anyways, which is the top of the power band on the V7III.      HP at 6,500 is around 55 HP (RW), depending who's dyno chart you look at.   Torque is in the low 50's.    So, ridden like this, the engine performance is only a small bit more than the V7-III.   I'd argue that the 80 HP V85 motor is going to have to be similar in it's power output to the two valve Duc, meaning in real world street riding, unless "ridden in anger", it's actually going to have similar performance to the current hemi-head smallblock.

[Socalrob]

Well I as many here am too old to wait till year 3. If it could be at least as good as a V7-3 and deliver 65 & 65 to the rear wheel still have a low seat height I'll gamble and buy the first one I find.
Don't forget they built the Aprillia shiver with about the same power.

Looks to me that this bike has potential to be exceptional.  The limited suspension travel and ground clearance of the bash plate I previously noted will result in an acceptable seat height.  With dual sports like my KTM 690, which stock has 10 inches of travel and decent ground clearance, by default is just really tall.  At age 60 this year I finally caved in and cut 2 inches off the suspension. 

The same 690 is listed at 67hp.  Let me say, if the Guzzi has 70hp it will be silly fun to ride.

The one option I am hoping for is cruise control.