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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: slowmover on May 11, 2021, 12:38:15 PM

Title: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: slowmover on May 11, 2021, 12:38:15 PM
Changing mine on a 2013 Stone with 17k miles. The filter was in good shape, not squishy and looked like it could last for a while.Got the kit from Guzzitech and like others I got sent the wrong size clamps. 2 Oetiker that were too small and 2 screw type that were too big.Makes you wonder. 🙄
(https://i.ibb.co/0GvKCR8/B941-A1-DC-E648-4-F8-E-8-D49-AF02-F3606808.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0GvKCR8)

nodejs geojson (https://geojsonlint.com/)
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: DaSwami on May 11, 2021, 05:39:06 PM
I would like to find out what you discover in the  Milano.   Any tutorials on how to best examine for the filter?  Or change it out?
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: Kev m on May 12, 2021, 07:33:39 AM
Just for the record, you do understand it is not supposed to be swollen like that, correct???

Having said that, you are fortunate it has held up so well for that long.

When I did the one on the Norge I had, it was less years and I have no idea of the miles but I had taken it places. Anyway, the one I took out looked just like your picture but had the added bonus of being very pliable. Very happy I dealt with it on my terms, rather than being stuck along the side of the road. I intend to find out what is in the tank of my Milano, and if necessary, deal with sooner than later.

Bummer that they didn't have the proper size clamps for you.

edit: BTW, I'm glad you were able to deal with it on your terms.

John Henry

I really wish you guys would stop fear mongering.

8 years and he said it felt strong.

As I've said before when I did mine on the 13 after a number of years a pressure tested it to more than THREE TIMES what the fuel system generates and it held fine.

I still say that generally speaking of they are gonna fail it's early and because of a relative defect in assembly.

I'll let you know in a few more years when we do the one on the III.
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: slowmover on May 12, 2021, 08:09:59 AM
There’s been a lot of discussion on this in the past. Kev even did a pressure test on one some years back.Do a search and you’ll see.I didn’t intend to stir this all up again but I figured I had it out might as well show it.I couldn’t find the Oetiker clamps at any auto parts,hardware, or plumbing supply stores so now I’m waiting a week after ordering online for delivery.
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: Kev m on May 12, 2021, 08:12:11 AM
There’s been a lot of discussion on this in the past. Kev even did a pressure test on one some years back.Do a search and you’ll see.I didn’t intend to stir this all up again but I figured I had it out might as well show it.I couldn’t find the Oetiker clamps at any auto parts,hardware, or plumbing supply stores so now I’m waiting a week after ordering online for delivery.

 :thumb:

I think it's good info.

Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: Zenermaniac on May 12, 2021, 10:04:39 AM
There’s been a lot of discussion on this in the past. Kev even did a pressure test on one some years back.Do a search and you’ll see.I didn’t intend to stir this all up again but I figured I had it out might as well show it.I couldn’t find the Oetiker clamps at any auto parts,hardware, or plumbing supply stores so now I’m waiting a week after ordering online for delivery.

I just did my V9 at less than 2k miles and it was soft and looked like it could blow at any time. I used 3/8” clamps from Lowe’s plumbing section. They seemed like they would be a little too big but clamped down just fine. Getting the assembly out was the biggest challenge. If MG had just made the opening a quarter inch bigger it would be easier.
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: Kev m on May 12, 2021, 10:33:18 AM
I just did my V9 at less than 2k miles and it was soft and looked like it could blow at any time. I used 3/8” clamps from Lowe’s plumbing section. They seemed like they would be a little too big but clamped down just fine. Getting the assembly out was the biggest challenge. If MG had just made the opening a quarter inch bigger it would be easier.

Looks and feel are deceiving.

The one I pressure tested to ~120 psi looked swollen.
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on May 12, 2021, 11:26:24 AM
I sourced a replacement filter for my 2017 V7III but when I got it out it was an all metal one so perhaps the factory have taken care of it.
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: subin on May 12, 2021, 03:28:29 PM
My 2019 V7 III Night Pack also has an all metal filter. I found this out by using a similar USB scope Zoom Zoom posted from Amazon.
So, I have an extra never installed Guzzitech all metal filter if anyone wants it for $10 plus shipping. I can probably throw in a couple of Oetiker clamps, if you let me know the size you need.
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: mr_pacman on May 12, 2021, 04:13:29 PM
There’s been a lot of discussion on this in the past. Kev even did a pressure test on one some years back.Do a search and you’ll see.I didn’t intend to stir this all up again but I figured I had it out might as well show it.I couldn’t find the Oetiker clamps at any auto parts,hardware, or plumbing supply stores so now I’m waiting a week after ordering online for delivery.

Do you have the part number of the Oetiker clamps you ordered?  Did you find the correct size screws?

I've got the right filter for my (new to me) 2014 V7.  I'm trying to source the clamps as well. I didn't realize there were screws that I needed to replace.

I have an appointment booked at the mechanic in a few weeks to go over the bike and do a service and would like to try and get this fuel filter done a the same time.

Then, once I have a good baseline for service on it, I'll start doing everything myself but this fuel filter is something I would prefer a pro does.

Thanks
James
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: Cam3512 on May 12, 2021, 04:45:55 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/tJrmJNk/7699-CC32-8364-472-D-B8-BB-AEDBD3202801.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tJrmJNk)


2020 V85 as seen from inside the tank.
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: oldbike54 on May 12, 2021, 06:28:04 PM
I really wish you guys would stop fear mongering.

8 years and he said it felt strong.

As I've said before when I did mine on the 13 after a number of years a pressure tested it to more than THREE TIMES what the fuel system generates and it held fine.

I still say that generally speaking of they are gonna fail it's early and because of a relative defect in assembly.

I'll let you know in a few more years when we do the one on the III.

 Well aren't you special .

 Dusty
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: Kev m on May 12, 2021, 08:24:09 PM
Well aren't you special .

 Dusty

If by that you mean I'm willing to test and report results and not just feelings that it "looked" weak, yup.


I don't recall any other reports of testing.

Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: slowmover on May 12, 2021, 08:46:04 PM
Kev's input has always been greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: Bulldog9 on May 13, 2021, 07:17:27 AM
A metal filter will likely never split or separate. A 1/2 plastic 1/2 Metal designed for diesel fuel has a higher chance of separating or failing. It's pretty obvious that there are likely thousands of Guzzi's running around with the owner being unaware, and have lasted for years. Some have failed immediately, some after years, some seem to never fail.

Though I have heard of several failures, I dont recall people talking about where the filter failed. The assumption was that it split where the plastic and metal were joined, but from my quick exam, I could see the barb deforming and slipping out of the fuel hose.

It's a known failure, even if rare and easily remedied. I changed mine when I took the tank off. 20 minute job and done. I didn't do any fancy pressure tests, but the plastic was soft and I could even pinch the plastic barb and make it deform with my fingers it was so soft. Would it have failed? No idea, but I was glad I changed it and take one possibility away from Murphy........ 

Not sure what the fuss is about. It looks like Guzzi finally exhausted their supply and are now using all metal filters. Notably, this 1/2 and 1/2 filter is still on the market, so the fact Guzzi moved away from it says something.

**Tangentially, when I first got my Norge, it was under warranty. MI swapped out the fuel pump assembly due to an inaccurate fuel level sensor (didn't go below 1/2). Micah told me that he made sure the new unit had the metal filter as there was a problem with the 1/2 plastic.
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: Cam3512 on May 13, 2021, 08:15:56 AM
Hey, isn’t a forum like this the place to get different information and perspectives then make a decision YOU feel is prudent?  When I changed mine in my former ‘14 V7 Special, the plastic half was swollen like all the others posted here (for some stupid reason it’s still on a shelf).   I tried my best to pull the 2 halves apart, and couldn’t.   Having said that, I’m glad I changed it out.  Piece of mind for ME.  And I’m sure Maynard, the new owner, was glad it had an all metal filter as he rode it 2500 miles back to Denver the LONG way. 

Then again, I was left stranded and repairing the pump inside my ‘09 Calvin’s (first new bike) tank along Rt. 95 en route to the Maryland rally.  This was 3 years after Jason Speaker “supposedly” changed out the hoses pre-delivery for the proper fully submersible lines.   They had turned to mush, and I had to do it correctly in my garage when I got home.  And this was long after breaking down TWICE heading to the WNY rally the same day I bought the bike.  That was a pinched and worn stator wire incorrectly routed by the factory under the crash bar bracket.  I probably spent a total of 10 hours on the side of the road with that bike.  I still miss it, and AFAIK it’s still going strong with the current owner Tony.

Piece of mind…
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: Kev m on May 13, 2021, 08:55:22 AM


Well Kev, by your own admission, you tested ONE filter. Good for you, that surely provides more valid info than the people who have experienced failure. Oh wait, one filter three times.

Fear mongering???

After Carl Allison, and others, actually had a failure, I decided to deal with mine, as did you on your B1100. I did mine just before leaving for Birmingham, Al.

You act as if you're offended that you spent 20 bucks and some time in your garage. As I have said many times, would you prefer to deal with it in your garage or along the road. I can tell you that along the road is a PITA!

You might remember my friend Jan. She had an accident with the Nevada demo bike at the National in New Cumberland, the same year your tent flooded. She bought that bike, and a few years later, 120 miles from home on a Sunday morning, we were leaving the New York rally. Just as we were into the edge of Westfield, her bike died. I was fortunate to find Dan Speaker had not left the rally site yet. He had come in his truck with demo bikes. We got Jan's bike loaded up and unloaded gear off mine so we could get home 2 up. Then, a few days later, we ran down to Steubenville from NE Ohio to retrieve her bike and our camping gear. That is about 90 miles one way. Way more screwing around than I or she wanted.

As I recall from when this was a more hot topic, someone looked up the specs of the filters in question and discovered they were not meant for immersion. Fuel additives, combined with ethanol may exacerbate the decay of the plastic, IDK. Fuel blends vary by region around the country, so neither you nor I can make a definitive call on who may be more or less affected by these variances.


Now, you can argue it is a non issue because, well, you tested ONE filter, albeit three times, or be aware of the possibility of a failure. You know full well people have had issues, and yes, the vast majority have not.   

If I were to see you getting on your bike and noticed cord showing, would you prefer I make you aware of it or would you prefer to ride away in ignorant bliss? Anyone would appreciate being made aware of that.

So, if you're a member of this board and someday you are in the minority who become stranded along the road because of this, just who do you think that person will be upset with? John for advocating spending a few bucks and doing some work in the comfort of your garage, or Kev who says it doesn't happen?


I'm simply promoting awareness. What anybody decides to do, or not do, is their own business.

John Henry

I think you are missing the point of my theory.

I'm not saying they can't fail.

I'm suggesting most won't and those that will should fail earlier not later.

Some, like yourself, seem to suggest failure is a fait au complet and your evidence is that some have failed and some are spongy.

I'm not the least bit offended by your stance. But I obviously disagree that everyone must be made to feel that they must replace this filter or they will eventually be stranded. There's a lot of Guzzi riders or potential riders who don't have the skill or inclination to do the job. And, at least in the first year or two it's under warranty. And, as we've seen, perhaps the issue is finally over with an OEM part change.

All I'm saying is let's be fair and balanced in presenting the evidence.

Swollen just isn't really evidence that it will fail.
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: Vagrant on May 13, 2021, 09:04:19 AM
 :thewife: :violent1: :bike-037:

I changed mine out and my tubes sit on the shelf.
I ride alone and there is enough crap to go wrong as it is. If a few things can be eliminated in the comfort of your own garage, why not.
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: kingoffleece on May 13, 2021, 09:07:30 AM
I switched mine on a 2015 V7.  The Mehle part number, when cross referenced specified that the OEM filter was not rated for ethanol.  In fact, it was only specked for diesel fuel.  Changed to an all metal rated for use.  As above, preventive procedure to eliminate a potential issue.
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: oldbike54 on May 13, 2021, 09:15:30 AM
 Just replace the damn thing and be done with it . I don't mind answering the calls so much after these things fail on the road , but will refer the next incident to Kev  :evil:

 Dusty
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: Kev m on May 13, 2021, 10:08:17 AM
Just replace the damn thing and be done with it . I don't mind answering the calls so much after these things fail on the road , but will refer the next incident to Kev  :evil:

 Dusty

I'll take Eastern PA, NJ, and maybe DE.   :thumb:


And in a couple of years I'll report on what I find in Jenn's V7III.

Fair dinkum?
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: Roebling3 on May 14, 2021, 10:59:13 AM
Learning there were some failures of the combination plastic and metal fuel filters I planned on changing the fuel filter in my V7 IIIR at the first service, At 429 miles, due to an abs problem. The plastic portion was irregularly swollen. I was told all big blocks use metal  fuel filters. IIRC it was $1.78 more, over the counter, at my local automotive spares shop.
 
I am rather consistent regarding preventive maintenance having logged 8.37 million mi. at retirement. (7 years ago, not including mc miles)

Two years ago I had the rather highly esteemed Caruso kit installed in the Daytona, (replacing oil pump and entire timing gear set), rather than risk destroying the engine. Bad things will always happen. Too often it's more than an inconvenience.   R3~
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: oldbike54 on May 14, 2021, 11:30:36 AM
I'll take Eastern PA, NJ, and maybe DE.   :thumb:


And in a couple of years I'll report on what I find in Jenn's V7III.

Fair dinkum?

 Nope , you must cover everywhere WG reaches .

 Oh , that's not ho to use the Ozzie term , sorry  :evil:

 Still in ?

 Dusty
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: guzzi771 on May 14, 2021, 01:13:34 PM
My 2017 V7III half plastic filter failed at less than 900 miles . Lucky it was in my garage if it was on the side of the road I would not be a MG owner today . AF1 fixed it under warranty so when I got my 2018 V7III Carbon Shine first thing I did was change out the half plastic filter that looked like it was about to pop open with a metal one from af1





Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: Kev m on May 14, 2021, 04:35:04 PM
Nope , you must cover everywhere WG reaches .

 Oh , that's not ho to use the Ozzie term , sorry  :evil:

 Still in ?

 Dusty

Oh well, you have my final offer.

Question. If it's still important how many of the stellar by reputation dealers do it for each new bike?

Hamlin's?

Cadre?

Anyone?

Can you find one?!?
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: oldbike54 on May 14, 2021, 04:53:24 PM
Oh well, you have my final offer.

Question. If it's still important how many of the stellar by reputation dealers do it for each new bike?

Hamlin's?

Cadre?

Anyone?

Can you find one?!?

 How many of them are saying on here not to do it ?  You fail again  :evil:

 Look bubba , just admit it , several folks have had a problem with this , it is much easier to deal with at home than stranded on the road . It's OK to simply say "I might be wrong" , no one will think less of you . That's all anyone is saying , it's a good idea to take the precaution . Call it maintenance, whatever .

 Dusty
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: Kev m on May 14, 2021, 04:58:18 PM
How many of them are saying on here not to do it ?  You fail again  :evil:

 Look bubba , just admit it , several folks have had a problem with this , it is much easier to deal with at home than stranded on the road . It's OK to simply say "I might be wrong" , no one will think less of you . That's all anyone is saying , it's a good idea to take the precaution . Call it maintenance, whatever .

 Dusty

Ha what a joke.

So you can't come up with a single dealer that is proactively changing these filters but I fail?

I've never said that it hasn't happened to people.

I've never said that it can't happen.

I've never said that someone can't decide to change it out for piece of mind.

The only thing I've done is question how big the risk is.

To listen to some replies you would think it's inevitable.

I'm saying there seems to be not insignificant evidence that you might never have a problem.

That's it

Just a different point of view on the risk assessment.

I can't believe how a few can't stand to hear that different point of view.

I'm simply challenging that narrative.

Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: kingoffleece on May 14, 2021, 06:19:55 PM
Death and taxes, that's it................. ................
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: mr_pacman on May 18, 2021, 06:32:27 PM
https://www.amazon.com/Oetiker-16700011-Stepless-Clamp-Closed/dp/B0100V1P3O
I didn’t get them yet so I don’t know if they’re ok. You don’t need any other clamps with screws.

How many of these clamps do we need?  Is 4 the right number from pictures I've seen online?

Just to confirm, the parts required for this job are the metal fuel filter and the clamps?  Any other parts I'm missing?

Thanks
James
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: Cam3512 on May 18, 2021, 08:20:52 PM
How many of these clamps do we need?  Is 4 the right number from pictures I've seen online?

Just to confirm, the parts required for this job are the metal fuel filter and the clamps?  Any other parts I'm missing?

Thanks
James

Another zip tie to hold it all together when you wrestle it back into the tank.  Remember, the filter is directional.


(https://i.ibb.co/frzTRYm/79-D1-D3-EF-1458-4-A80-988-C-78-DCCFA83-A5-A.jpg) (https://ibb.co/frzTRYm)

(https://i.ibb.co/HqctZKC/60-ECFFDC-F80-B-42-C2-A15-E-1-A33-ACE88-A97.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HqctZKC)


Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: slowmover on May 18, 2021, 10:34:51 PM
Only 2 clamps. If they’re Oetiker the size is 11.3
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: mr_pacman on May 18, 2021, 10:36:44 PM
Only 2 clamps. If they’re oetiker the size is 11.3

Is it 11.3mm closed and 13.8mm open or 11.3mm open and 9.7mm closed?  I'm seeing two Oeticker clamps that are showing an 11.3 mm size depending on if it's the open position or closed position.
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: DaSwami on May 19, 2021, 05:59:01 AM
We have an excellent tutorial on how to do the valve adjustment on the V7III here, what about one to do the fuel filter change?

Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: slowmover on May 19, 2021, 09:06:51 AM
11.3 open 9.7 closed. There’s a tool to close them up but I used a pair of nippers. You probably could use side cutters with caution.
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: mr_pacman on May 19, 2021, 10:10:08 AM
11.3 open 9.7 closed. There’s a tool to close them up but I used a pair of nippers. You probably could use side cutters with caution.

Oh, that changes everything.  I'm having a heck of a time finding 11.3 CLOSED locally. 

If it's the 11.3 open and 9.7 closed, they are available locally for 60 cents each.

I was just going to ask if these ones would work as they are 11.1 closed, but sounds like these would have been way too big:

https://shop.wurth.ca/fittings-hoses-tubing/hose-clamps-pipe-clamps-assortments/hose-clamps/fuel-line-clips/CLAMP-1EAR-A2-B8.2-D13.8-(11.1-13.1)/541.138/


On edit, the ones you posted in your amazon link that you ordered are 11.3 closed and 13.8mm open.  Did you receive these yet and did they work or did you get the wrong ones?

Thanks
James
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: slowmover on May 19, 2021, 11:57:29 AM
Yes  I did get them and they were too big as they closed to 11.3. I had to re-order and wait another 5 days.I’ll delete that post.
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: mr_pacman on May 19, 2021, 12:23:54 PM
Yes  I did get them and they were too big as they closed to 11.3. I had to re-order and wait another 5 days.I’ll delete that post.

Perfect. The 11.3 Open (9.6 closed) Oeticker clamps are available locally for 60 cents each vs the 11.3 CLOSED that required me to buy in lots of 200 for $140 bucks.

Thanks again for the help.

If you could please update this thread once you get them and confirm the part number (I'm guessing its going to be 16700007) and that they work that will be great.
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: DaSwami on May 19, 2021, 09:09:35 PM
Another question, which filter is recommended to replace the half plastic one?  I am going to order two
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: guzzi771 on May 19, 2021, 09:27:34 PM
Another question, which filter is recommended to replace the half plastic one?  I am going to order two
                                             MAHLE KL145  af1 racing got them
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: DaSwami on May 19, 2021, 09:43:49 PM
Thank you sir!  Love AF :weiner:1!
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: slowmover on May 20, 2021, 09:45:11 AM
You’ve got to do a search on here as there’s been a lot discussion over the years. There is much helpful info on the process and even a video or two.
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: mr_pacman on May 26, 2021, 11:31:58 AM
Got the clamps today. They say " 11.3 OET" imprinted on the side. Part 16700007. (9.6 closed, 11.3 open).

Doing the filter on Friday so I'll report back to confirm they are , hopefully,  the correct ones.
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: bad Chad on May 28, 2021, 05:21:13 PM
I pulled mine out of the v9 today.  6000 miles, didn't look good.

(https://i.ibb.co/svZxX0j/IMG-6703.jpg) (https://ibb.co/svZxX0j)


When new the kl 150 filter is not orange, and certainly is ot bulbus!
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: Kev m on May 28, 2021, 06:15:04 PM
I pulled mine out of the v9 today.  6000 miles, didn't look good.

(https://i.ibb.co/svZxX0j/IMG-6703.jpg) (https://ibb.co/svZxX0j)


When new the kl 150 filter is not orange, and certainly is ot bulbus!
So how hard was it to pull apart?
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: bad Chad on May 28, 2021, 06:30:01 PM
I didn't try to pull it apart.  I gave it a tug, and it didn't feel like it was about to come off.  It is fairly soft, although I have no idea how stiff the plastic is when new, but my guess is it has softend.   I suppose it might stay as is for many years, but it certainly has deformed over the course of one years use.
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: Kev m on May 28, 2021, 06:41:32 PM
I didn't try to pull it apart.  I gave it a tug, and it didn't feel like it was about to come off.  It is fairly soft, although I have no idea how stiff the plastic is when new, but my guess is it has softend.   I suppose it might stay as is for many years, but it certainly has deformed over the course of one years use.

No argument.

Just pointing out that swelling alone means nothing.

And this is another example where we have no proof it would have failed.

The one I tested to 120+ psi looked like that.

I'm perfectly willing to be proved wrong. But we just don't have the data.

So I get why people might choose to be on the safe side since there are some failures.

But I'm here to support the ones who decide it's not a forgone conclusion.
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: bad Chad on May 28, 2021, 07:31:07 PM

I disagree with some of your conclusions.   Your contention that,  "swelling alone means nothing", is almost certainly false.  Swelling to this degree clearly indicates a problem, how often that problem erupts in failure becomes the question.   For what it's worth, Todd has said on his forum at GTM, and I'm paraphrasing, "All metal/plastic filters WILL fail sooner or later"   

We don't have proof this filter would fail, but we do have evidence to show that the likely hood of failure has increased with the bulbus nature of the softened plastic case.   When it comes down to it, we never have PROOF of failure, until actual failure.   If this were a tire, that displayed similar attributes, would you trust it?

But, you understand why riders, "Might choose to be on the safe side since there are some failures."
I imagine the riders who "decide it's not a forgone conclusion", will find comfort knowing you're there for them!  :wink:

Remember NASA's Space Shuttle, it worked most of the time too.  There was no proof it would fail, I mean look at the dozens upon dozens of successful missions...   Overly dramatic, yes, but I feel my position has more merit then yours.

Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: Kev m on May 28, 2021, 07:55:22 PM
I disagree with some of your conclusions.   Your contention that,  "swelling alone means nothing", is almost certainly false.  Swelling to this degree clearly indicates a problem, how often that problem erupts in failure becomes the question.   For what it's worth, Todd has said on his forum at GTM, and I'm paraphrasing, "All metal/plastic filters WILL fail sooner or later"   

We don't have proof this filter would fail, but we do have evidence to show that the likely hood of failure has increased with the bulbus nature of the softened plastic case.   When it comes down to it, we never have PROOF of failure, until actual failure.   If this were a tire, that displayed similar attributes, would you trust it?

But, you understand why riders, "Might choose to be on the safe side since there are some failures."
I imagine the riders who "decide it's not a forgone conclusion", will find comfort knowing you're there for them!  :wink:

Remember NASA's Space Shuttle, it worked most of the time too.  There was no proof it would fail, I mean look at the dozens upon dozens of successful missions...   Overly dramatic, yes, but I feel my position has more merit then yours.

And you're making assumptions. You're assuming swelling means it must eventually fail and that's not scientifically sound.

We don't know that from the facts. It's a huge assumption that some deformation must equal enough to fail. Kinda like all those plastic fuel tanks that swelled but how many ever leaked?

Every person who pulls one and says "it looks swollen" isn't providing any evidence that failure was imminent.

I know it's popular to make assumptions when supposedly connecting the dots, but that's not how science works.

If more people tried to pull those filters apart, or pressure tested them, then we'd be closer to knowing.

I guess if we took a whole bunch and soaked them in fuel (E10 and not) and tested them all we'd be closer.

I don't have a problem being wrong in the end.

But until there's more evidence in not willing to call it fact.

Those who agree are free to do as they want.

Those who disagree are free to pull the tanks and replace them.

It's all good. I'm just a voice pointing out it's not settled and why.

All good.

Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: slowmover on May 28, 2021, 08:38:43 PM
I got the intuitive impression that yeah it deformed and changed color but it would have lasted a long time and I probably could have let it be.
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: mr_pacman on May 29, 2021, 11:27:08 AM
Here is my filter from last night's fuel filter swap.

BIke is a 2014 with 2,100 KM's on it (1,304 miles).

I was expecting the plastic to be more orange in color based on other pictures I've seen online.  The plastic appears to be a bit swollen and was a bit "squishy" but I'm not sure how these were when they were new so I'm not sure if is normal or not.   I tried to pull the plastic apart from the metal portion but couldn't with my hands.

I had no way to pressure test it.

I can also confirm that for the Oetiker clamps, the correct Oetiker part number is 16700007 which is 11.3 OPEN and 9.6 CLOSED.  The clamps say 11.3 on the side of them.

Now if I can only figure out how much engine oil I'm supposed to use. Manual indicates 2L. I put in 1.7 and it's at the "full mark" on the dipstick (not screwed in, just dipped) with the engine oil cold and sitting upright on a wheel chock. I'm tempted to put more in, but might run it and see what happens. I've read stories that going over can get the airbox full of oil.


(https://i.ibb.co/WybRKcG/mahle.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WybRKcG)
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: slowmover on May 29, 2021, 11:56:42 AM
How does a 2014 only have 1300 miles on it?
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: mr_pacman on May 29, 2021, 12:00:35 PM
How does a 2014 only have 1300 miles on it?

Don't blame me, I just bought the bike last November from the original owner who had 5 other bikes, 4 kids and a business he was running. I wanted a stone or special, but this racer popped up locally, great price, low mileage so bought it as I wasn't sure when a nice stone or special would pop up for sale for a similar price.

I've already put 150km on it the past few weeks since the snow melted.
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: bad Chad on May 29, 2021, 03:10:51 PM
Kev said, "And you're making assumptions. You're assuming swelling means it must eventually fail and that's not scientifically sound."

I never made any such assumptions.    I specifically said, there is no proof of imminent failure, until such a failure happens.  I did say the fact that most filters swell indicates a problem.   I do not assume all filters will eventually fail, however I wouldn't be surprised to learn that that is indeed the case.

I'm not a fan boy of Todds, but I strongly suspect his claim that they are ticking time bombs is correct.   I hope you don't get around to changing the filter on your v7III, that way you will be able to give us some actuall evidence of failure, if and when it happens to you.
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: Cam3512 on May 29, 2021, 03:22:02 PM
Here is my filter from last night's fuel filter swap.

BIke is a 2014 with 2,100 KM's on it (1,304 miles).

I was expecting the plastic to be more orange in color based on other pictures I've seen online.  The plastic appears to be a bit swollen and was a bit "squishy" but I'm not sure how these were when they were new so I'm not sure if is normal or not.   I tried to pull the plastic apart from the metal portion but couldn't with my hands.

I had no way to pressure test it.

I can also confirm that for the Oetiker clamps, the correct Oetiker part number is 16700007 which is 11.3 OPEN and 9.6 CLOSED.  The clamps say 11.3 on the side of them.

Now if I can only figure out how much engine oil I'm supposed to use. Manual indicates 2L. I put in 1.7 and it's at the "full mark" on the dipstick (not screwed in, just dipped) with the engine oil cold and sitting upright on a wheel chock. I'm tempted to put more in, but might run it and see what happens. I've read stories that going over can get the airbox full of oil.


(https://i.ibb.co/WybRKcG/mahle.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WybRKcG)


I wouldn’t add any more than 1.7 l of oil, it will just end up in the air box.  Even with my 1 liter sump extender, no more than 2.5 liters ever went in. 
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: Kev m on May 29, 2021, 03:51:36 PM
Kev said, "And you're making assumptions. You're assuming swelling means it must eventually fail and that's not scientifically sound."

I never made any such assumptions.    I specifically said, there is no proof of imminent failure, until such a failure happens.  I did say the fact that most filters swell indicates a problem.   I do not assume all filters will eventually fail, however I wouldn't be surprised to learn that that is indeed the case.

I'm not a fan boy of Todds, but I strongly suspect his claim that they are ticking time bombs is correct.   I hope you don't get around to changing the filter on your v7III, that way you will be able to give us some actuall evidence of failure, if and when it happens to you.

Not trying to give you grief for grief's sake but you're talking out both sides of your face right now.

You say that you do not assume all filters will eventually fail in one sentence, but you just as quickly say the swelling indicates a problem? What possible problem could there be other than failure?!?

Then you say that you strongly suspect all filters are ticking bombs? Well for what bomb do they represent if you don't assume they will all eventually fail?

Anyway, I'll get back to you in a few more years.
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: bad Chad on May 29, 2021, 06:56:21 PM
I know this will not end this for you.   Yes, I do claim,  I don't know if all filters will fail.   I suspect they will, but I don't know they will.

Swelling CLEARLY does indicate a issue/problem, whether that issue will turn into failure is unknown.    The problem we are referring too, has a correlation with failure, if you won't recognize this, then there is nothing more I can do to help you see the forest among the trees.
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: Zenermaniac on May 30, 2021, 04:25:23 PM
Mine was very yellow, very swollen and very soft. I wasn’t worth it to me to leave it in even though there don’t appear to be many outright failures. The slight possibility that it may fail and leave me stranded somewhere isn’t worth trusting a statistic. By the way if anyone can’t find the metric clamps I used 3/8” clamps from the plumbing section of Lowe’s. They look a little big but crimped down just fine.
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on May 30, 2021, 08:05:51 PM
Since only a small percentage of Guzzi owners post on wild Guzzi and an even smaller percentage do their own maintenance I doubt we will ever know how many fail.
Kevin did a reasonable test, pressurized his to over 4 x normal working pressure and it didn't fail.
At the same time a lot of owners don't subject their Guzzis to Ethanol.
I decided to err on the safe side and change mine only to find my bike manufactured in 2017 has an all metal filter so I have a spare I will make available to anyone in the Vancouver area if you have a failure.
Title: Re: V7 Fuel filter change
Post by: bad Chad on May 30, 2021, 09:40:19 PM
There seems there is no evidence ethanol plays any part in all of this, perhaps it does, but we have no meaningful evidence for such.  We do have reports that the stock filter was not designed to be used with gasoline.