Author Topic: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?  (Read 5223 times)

Offline guzzista

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Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« on: October 28, 2019, 09:49:02 PM »
A nice  2012 Tenni Griso is available locally .  11K miles and apparently no  tappet problems as per local Guzzi dealer as of last service. Is still worth purchasing and then taking the plunge and rollerizing it ? . I have no idea what would that add to overall cost or which kit would it take  and its actual cost or special tools required. Any light shed on the subject would  be greatly  appreciated
« Last Edit: October 28, 2019, 09:50:08 PM by guzzista »
1975 750S Tribute bike, 1994 Cali 1100, 2007 Ducati GT1000, 1983 SP1000, 1973 V7Sport project, 2017 California1400 Touring

Offline usedtobefast

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2019, 10:02:53 PM »
First, I seriously doubt the dealer took things apart and inspected it ... they probably just did a valve adjustment and said it was good. 

Check out AF1, they have the kits.  Could you do the work?  I checked with Pro Italia last year and it was like $2500 for parts and labor to have them do it.  For a while Moto Guzzi would cover the parts and the customer would pay the labor ... but those days might be over.  Pro Italia was the only shop that seemed to really understand the problem and solution. 

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pete roper

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2019, 10:56:57 PM »
Firstly 2012 was the changeover year so there is a possibility, albeit slim, it could be a roller bike so make sure you're sure. :grin:

Secondly at 11,000 miles it is unlikely that the damage will of progressed to the point of it being a risky purchase if. Not the proviso though. If it's a 2012 or late 2011 it will need an 'A' kit which is one of the easiest to install and doesn't require removal of the heads. On a Griso it's a breeze to do but as with any other 8V with the two part sump and spacer it's worth dropping the sump and spacer to replace the upper gasket and clean the sump carefully as they do have a propensity to blowing out gaskets between the spacer and the block unless the newer, thicker, gasket is used.

It'll also require its swingarm and shock linkage bearings greasing but it's not something to shy away from and they are one of the prettiest of the Grisos.

Pete

Online Perazzimx14

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2019, 11:13:39 AM »
What to do........Run!

If you want a Griso there are plenty of factory rollered ones out there for not a lot of money.
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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2019, 11:13:39 AM »

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2019, 12:34:44 PM »
Buy it & fix, there are only so many Tenni's. That would be a keeper for long term enjoyment.
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Offline usedtobefast

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2019, 12:43:16 PM »
Here is the AF1 A Kit link:  https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=71398&sku=1A002060&description=Moto+Guzzi+Bucket+Tappet+Update+Kit+A+%2D+1A002060

Not associated with AF1 or pushing them, just a link in case you have trouble finding it.

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2017 Griso
2016 Stornello
2000 Red Quota
Want a black/green 1000S big valve :)

Offline guzzista

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2019, 08:44:05 PM »
Thanks so much to everyone with the advice and links. I will go check the bike later this week and report  if the Nor Cal Fire situation settles. So far  we are in between power outages and hoping for the best.
1975 750S Tribute bike, 1994 Cali 1100, 2007 Ducati GT1000, 1983 SP1000, 1973 V7Sport project, 2017 California1400 Touring

Online Huzo

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2019, 12:33:18 AM »
Would be nice to get it at the right price and save it from oblivion.
You’ll know it’s yours then..

Offline Yeahoo Whoyah

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2019, 01:50:27 AM »
I’m guessing it’s the one in Morgan Hill.  Reasonable asking price IMO from a motivated seller. If you can get him down another $500 you’ll be in great shape even if you have to pay for parts and labor to convert to roller tappets. If my garage wasn’t full I’d be tempted.  Love the Tenni Green models!
Greg Tillitson
El Dorado Hills Calif.

Offline Brian UK

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2019, 04:10:08 AM »
Don't know if the same rules apply in the US, but here in the UK Guzzi are still honouring the extended warranty on the flat tappets, they provide the parts, you pay the labour or do it yourself.

However there are hoops to jump through like proving a full service history.

I would certainly follow Pete's advice.
Brian.

Online Perazzimx14

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2019, 05:10:37 AM »
Replacing the flatties with rollers is great provided you caught them before they started to fail. So until it was opened up to have a look to see the condition of existing flatties  I'd not pay anything for it. That $800 roller kit could turn into a whole lot more.

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2019, 05:18:04 AM »
It could, but at that mileage the chances are slim that it will turn into a disaster. As long as it isn't making a noise like a barn dance for bulldozers from the top end and it's rollerised immediately and the sump removed and cleaned thoroughly it will most likely be fine. The number of failures we've experienced post rollerisation is really very small.

That being said it depends on how much you want a Tenni and how much cheaper it will be than a 2013-on model.

Offline SIR REAL ED

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2019, 06:33:02 AM »
newbie questions here:

- are 2 valve motors preferable to 4 valve motors or vice versa?

- when did roller followers become standard?

- both of these appear to be 4 valve heads to me, what is the visual tip off?

https://cincinnati.craigslist.org/mcd/d/cincinnati-2012-moto-guzzi-griso-w12k/7006987517.html

https://cleveland.craigslist.org/mcy/d/rochester-2016-moto-guzzi-griso-se/7009148230.html

- at what price would each be considered a good buy?

great looking bikes, only downside for me (that I am cognizant of, that might be a clue to my extent of knowledge) would be weight.

thanks in advance for the education.
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pete roper

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2019, 07:17:21 AM »
The change over year from flats to rollers was 2012 in the March, April, May period depending on model. Essentially anything from 2013 on is not affected by the flat tappet fiasco. If you look at a flat tappet year model (2008-2012.) ask if it has been rollerised. Don't accept 'There are no outstanding recalls on this bike' as satisfactory because there never was a recall. Either see proof of rollerisation in documented form or ask to pop a rocker cover and look. If the seller can't or won't do this? Walk away or immediately accept that you'll need to buy the appropriate conversion kit and adjust the price you are willing to pay accordingly.

The earlier G 11's all used the ultimate version of the venerable 2VPC motor that first saw the light of day in 1967.

Pete

Offline Dilliw

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2019, 08:30:45 AM »
newbie questions here:

- are 2 valve motors preferable to 4 valve motors or vice versa?

   Some prefer the 2v motor's power delivery and, compared to the flat tappet models  the reliability of the 2v is certainly better.  I don't see any advantage of the 2v to a rollered 4v however (caveat I have an 4v).

- when did roller followers become standard?

     Mid 2012.

- both of these appear to be 4 valve heads to me, what is the visual tip off?

https://cincinnati.craigslist.org/mcd/d/cincinnati-2012-moto-guzzi-griso-w12k/7006987517.html

https://cleveland.craigslist.org/mcy/d/rochester-2016-moto-guzzi-griso-se/7009148230.html

    Both are 4v heads.  The easy tip off are the model/paint schemes but you can always tell by the valve covers or the color of the CARC.  Just google the pictures and look at those.

- at what price would each be considered a good buy?

     Subjective, but given you can find rollered 8v's (mid 2012 and up) in the $5k to $7k range and that really puts downward pressure on all earlier bikes save the Tenni SE's since there's a soft spot for that model.

great looking bikes, only downside for me (that I am cognizant of, that might be a clue to my extent of knowledge) would be weight.

thanks in advance for the education.
George Westbury
Austin, TX
2003 EVT "The Tank"
2011 Griso SE

L-824 and L-825

Offline Dilliw

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2019, 08:45:09 AM »
A nice  2012 Tenni Griso is available locally .  11K miles and apparently no  tappet problems as per local Guzzi dealer as of last service. Is still worth purchasing and then taking the plunge and rollerizing it ? . I have no idea what would that add to overall cost or which kit would it take  and its actual cost or special tools required. Any light shed on the subject would  be greatly  appreciated
I saved a Tenni SE and I'm glad I did it, but I was looking for a black devil and just couldn't find one as they aren't the most common motorcycle out there.  If you want the green then  you will have to go through the rollers to get there; I've never seen a green one that wasn't a flattie and you won't find many (if any) converted used ones out there.  The conversion cost me $500 and about a month going the dealer route if you can still get the parts supplied by MG.

George Westbury
Austin, TX
2003 EVT "The Tank"
2011 Griso SE

L-824 and L-825

Offline Lannis

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2019, 08:55:21 AM »
I saved a Tenni SE and I'm glad I did it, but I was looking for a black devil and just couldn't find one as they aren't the most common motorcycle out there.  If you want the green then  you will have to go through the rollers to get there; I've never seen a green one that wasn't a flattie and you won't find many (if any) converted used ones out there.  The conversion cost me $500 and about a month going the dealer route if you can still get the parts supplied by MG.

My 8V went almost 40,000 miles before conversion; upon disassembly, the tappet surfaces were very discolored but no material missing.   It was close to failing.  If I had ANY unconverted 8V at any mileage, I'd do the conversion NOW.

In my case (a 2009) the dealer had to work hard to get Moto Guzzi to send the appropriate kit on Guzzi's nickel.   Take out the tappets, photograph them, put together a service history (partly the original out-of-business selling dealer, partly my maintenance log, partly their maintenance log) and still got an argument from Guzzi.   If the dealer hadn't been totally on my side or hadn't persisted, they wouldn't have gotten the $1500 kit.   But they did, and after 7.5 hours labor ($800) including a new map download and a centerstand recall, the bike has been great for 14,000 miles.

So I'd probably go for the bike with a price discounted about $2300 from a roller version, and MAYBE you can still get Guzzi to spring for the roller kit and get partially well on the deal.   The seller obviously isn't willing to take that action, take the hassle, argue with Guzzi, and install the kit, so there ought not be any problem with getting the discount if YOU have to do all that .... !

Lannis

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Offline guzziownr

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2019, 10:28:44 AM »
There is a Tenni on Copart right now in Portland: https://www.copart.com/lot/46122009



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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2019, 10:46:04 AM »


Buy the one from Cadre so I quit lusting after it!
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Offline usedtobefast

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2019, 12:41:41 PM »
There is a Tenni on Copart right now in Portland: https://www.copart.com/lot/46122009





Interesting.  They put that huge sticker right on the tank!  How classy!   :grin:

Seems the rear seat has been recovered, that does not look original.  And they did a "tidy tail" and then stuck on a top case, another  :rolleyes:

Wonder what the story is on that one and how it ended up at auction.
2017 V7 iii Racer
2017 Griso
2016 Stornello
2000 Red Quota
Want a black/green 1000S big valve :)

Offline Dilliw

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2019, 12:49:49 PM »
My 8V went almost 40,000 miles before conversion; upon disassembly, the tappet surfaces were very discolored but no material missing.   It was close to failing.  If I had ANY unconverted 8V at any mileage, I'd do the conversion NOW.

In my case (a 2009) the dealer had to work hard to get Moto Guzzi to send the appropriate kit on Guzzi's nickel.   Take out the tappets, photograph them, put together a service history (partly the original out-of-business selling dealer, partly my maintenance log, partly their maintenance log) and still got an argument from Guzzi.   If the dealer hadn't been totally on my side or hadn't persisted, they wouldn't have gotten the $1500 kit.   But they did, and after 7.5 hours labor ($800) including a new map download and a centerstand recall, the bike has been great for 14,000 miles.

So I'd probably go for the bike with a price discounted about $2300 from a roller version, and MAYBE you can still get Guzzi to spring for the roller kit and get partially well on the deal.   The seller obviously isn't willing to take that action, take the hassle, argue with Guzzi, and install the kit, so there ought not be any problem with getting the discount if YOU have to do all that .... !

Lannis

FYI the difference between Lannis' numbers and mine is the kit required.  A Tenni SE will almost certainly require an A or B kit where Lannis' '09 required the C kit with removal of the heads. 

George Westbury
Austin, TX
2003 EVT "The Tank"
2011 Griso SE

L-824 and L-825

Offline larrys

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2019, 01:18:03 PM »
There is a Tenni on Copart right now in Portland: https://www.copart.com/lot/46122009





The sheet says damage on the side and a salvage title. Looks like a right side slide... Doesn't look damaged enough to be a total.  :undecided:
Larry
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Offline kirb

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2019, 02:28:46 PM »
newbie questions here:
- are 2 valve motors preferable to 4 valve motors or vice versa?
great looking bikes, only downside for me (that I am cognizant of, that might be a clue to my extent of knowledge) would be weight.

The 2 valve bikes are 1100cc (8V are 1200). In the US anything before 2009 should be a 1100 2 valve bike. Most were 2007 due to over production around that time. You could buy a NOS 2007 bike well into 2009 IIRC... Not sure there are many 2008 Grisos
2009 and on should be 8V bikes with 2013 and on being rollered. Easy to tell from the valve cover.

Things about a Griso that you need to be aware of:
Exhausts are often modified or changed without changing the map. This is an easy and cheap fix with Guzzi diag.
Suspension is great- when adjusted properly. I found a LOT of the new Griso had the compression damp screw turned to 'rattle your teeth' stiff. Not a great way to win test riders over. Lowering the forks in the tree helps with handling as well. Listed in one of the manuals (station service?)
Footpegs are high for most, but a pair from Knight Design pegs will help lower them 1" at least.
Seat blows for long trips (for many). You have been warned, seems OK sitting on it. Then you ride it...
At least the fuel range sucks so you can get off the horrible seat...135 miles before you start walking, IIRC...exactly 135.

It's a great bike, rock solid, looks great, loved mine when I had it. Gets lots of attention, more so than most any bike I had to date. I might own one again...Always wanted a Teni.


pete roper

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2019, 10:00:13 PM »
Kirb? My GRiSO Pinko I bought in, (From memory?) Tennessee was a red 2008 1200 so there were some out there in 2008.

I'd really like to buy the Copart bike. I could bring it over here as 'Spares' if I pulled the motor out and shipped it separately and could build it back up to original just for shit and giggles. I do like the Tenni's.

How, especially after the 'Hydro tappet' fiasco the factory could so spectacularly screw up the 8V simply to save a few dollars really is beyond me but history dictates that is exactly what they did. Amazing. I still think the Griso, especially in 8V format is right up there with the V7 Sport and 850 Le Mans in terms of its styling and appeal.why they didn't sell by the boatload is just beyond me?

Pete

Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2019, 12:01:49 AM »
Amazing. I still think the Griso, especially in 8V format is right up there with the V7 Sport and 850 Le Mans in terms of its styling and appeal.why they didn't sell by the boatload is just beyond me?

Pete


Taste, Pete
Like the centy, quota and more recently v9
Not everyone shares the love of odd, v7 sport and le mans positively mainstream by comparison, but pretty.
Usable too, for ever

Griso issues  obviously didn’t help for poseurs, fuel range cut out the users, rollers don’t get you much further

But any aussies that want one, NOS still available here, think they pay you to get rid of em.

Looks like v85 might finally turn the tide, TT still selling well, v85 Le Mans might even put them in the black
Avoiding ugly makes sense, hope they’ve learnt.
Watch out for Eicma

pete roper

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2019, 12:37:22 AM »
Nah. The fact you are hidebound by your conservatism means that you have little. Anything outside the box leaves you cold.

That's fine.

Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2019, 12:54:15 AM »
Nah. The fact you are hidebound by your conservatism means that you have little. Anything outside the box leaves you cold.

That's fine.
Exact opposite is true,
But the buying public are in discussion not me
Sales figures tell the story

pete roper

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2019, 01:17:22 AM »
That being the case stories of the V85 being the great white hope are proving to be dishonest at best. It’s not selling any better or worse than Guzzi’s of years gone by.

Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2019, 02:09:46 AM »
That being the case stories of the V85 being the great white hope are proving to be dishonest at best. It’s not selling any better or worse than Guzzi’s of years gone by.
Apparently it’s the red ones they can’t make enough of
Great red hope ?

But do you know sales figures for us and euro summer?
Please tell
Aus sales season starting now, published marchish
% change over ytd is guzzi’s challenge

pete roper

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Re: Considering a Flat Tappet Griso, what to do?
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2019, 03:53:35 AM »
Always is with any business. I wish them to sell squillions. I just can't see why anyone would when they can buy a VStrom.

My next purchase is probably going to be one of the new CT 125 Honda's that are 'rumoured' for next year. They'd be a hoot in the state forests of NSW and I'd guess a great 'Round Australia' steed. Speed isn't what I need any more. My GRiSO has more than enough and is elegant and simple as were most of the Big Block series. The smallblocks have always been built down to a price 'Company Carriers'. They're a lot better than they used to be but until they improve the top end they will remain off my interest spectrum.

You think differently. That's fine.

 

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