Author Topic: V7iii First Service Grumblings  (Read 904 times)

Online Githianki

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V7iii First Service Grumblings
« on: May 02, 2021, 05:00:54 PM »
So I'm finally getting around to doing my first service on my V7.  Everything was good, however as I had assumed, they overfilled my final drive, and to my surprise, they underfilled my gearbox at PDI.  Final drive took about 180ml out, but the gearbox only 350ml came out.  I also did it hot, so I know it all came out, I also let it sit for 2 hours after opening all the plugs.  I put the 500ml into the gearbox and will monitor, and adjust the final drive to the correct level.

And we wonder why people do their own wrenching on these bikes.

This is a pretty good dealership, so I'm surprised they missed it. 
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Offline Huzo

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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2021, 05:41:24 PM »
Im the softest bloke around when it comes to forgiving understandable errors, but they need you to tear them a new arse...!

Online Githianki

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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2021, 05:45:37 PM »
Im the softest bloke around when it comes to forgiving understandable errors, but they need you to tear them a new arse...!

I'm with you Huzo,  I've bought 5 bikes total from these guys and they are a good outfit.   But they will be getting a phone call from me first thing when they open Tuesday.
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Offline guzzisteve

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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2021, 05:45:43 PM »
I seen 350 in a bunch, almost like normal from factory. How much can you check in 1hr, that's all we had at PDI. Stick a tie wrap in, see oil, call it good there's no level plug. Supposed to put it on software too. How fast can you go, is what it is. At least nothing went wrong in the time.
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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2021, 05:45:43 PM »

Offline 80CX100

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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2021, 09:07:19 PM »
Unfortunately it's a common issue; when they translated the Service Manual from Italian to English iirc they referred to the rear diff as the "transmission", and to the transmission as the gearbox.

Most shops have the junior guys doing the fluids and if they're not on the ball and don't realize the funky translation to English, the larger amount gets dumped in the diff and the lower amount goes in the gear box (transmission),,, there have been a few posts about owners cooking their transmissions (gear box), shortly after servicing because of the low fluid level.

fwiw

Edit: After reading the op's post again and the amounts that came out of the diff and the transmission, that wasn't what happened here, fwiw.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 06:21:55 AM by 80CX100 »
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Offline Clancy

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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2021, 09:27:58 PM »
When you drained the transmission did you have the fill screw cap open?
On my old V7-II, Michael (from Moto Moda - Pete Roper's business) and I found that if you drained the transmission with the fill cap on a vapour lock can occur stopping all the oil from draining out.
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Offline kingoffleece

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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2021, 10:09:25 PM »
It would be a huge oversight if the "jr" techs were not made 100% aware of the confusing terminology.
I was just at a shop where 5 V7's were unloaded and fluids (gearbox and final drive) are dumped, measured, and corrected as necessary.  That's a pro shop for you.  And yes, the customer pays for PDI, and it's as thorough as can be.  You can debate if it's necessary, it's the factory responsibility, any or all of it.  These guys check it as it's the only way to KNOW.

None of this "well, it's a factory fill, sorry your new bike is screwed, and it's a warrantee claim" stuff.
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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2021, 10:26:44 PM »
Don't feel like the Lone Ranger.   The OWNER of the shop where I purchased my first 1400 was the same guy that serviced it.  When I picked it up, he told me that he wasn't really sure how to check the oil on this bike.   

I had to trailer it home because I couldn't get a ride to the dealer.   So I got home, drained out an extra quart and a half.
Rode the bike around most of the day, and then rechecked the oil level.  It was right at the fill mark.

I brought that quart and a half back to the dealer the next day, just in case they "shorted" someone else. 
His response was "I told you that I wasn't sure how to check the oil on that bike".

Online Githianki

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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2021, 06:34:57 AM »
It would be a huge oversight if the "jr" techs were not made 100% aware of the confusing terminology.
I was just at a shop where 5 V7's were unloaded and fluids (gearbox and final drive) are dumped, measured, and corrected as necessary.  That's a pro shop for you.  And yes, the customer pays for PDI, and it's as thorough as can be.  You can debate if it's necessary, it's the factory responsibility, any or all of it.  These guys check it as it's the only way to KNOW.

None of this "well, it's a factory fill, sorry your new bike is screwed, and it's a warrantee claim" stuff.

I always pop the fill caps so everything flows.
 
Exactly KOF, these guys do that with their bikes as well, which is why I'm surprised that it happened.  Maybe they had an off day.  I'm not out for blood or anything with with the dealer, just want to let them know that it happened, as well as maybe let other folks here that it "might" happen to them too. 
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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2021, 06:48:23 AM »
In your original post you refer to "they". They being the factory incorrectly filled the transmission and rear dif, and the dealer didn't catch it?

As Guzzisteve mentioned, other than sticking something in there looking for a sign of fluid, I would doubt any dealer would actually drain, measure, then refill. Without a level plug or sight glass, it simply isn't going to happen.

Anyway, as you said, you're not out for blood. Your dealer cannot control what happens in Italy. They may be able to bring it up to a rep or something but who knows how much traction it will receive by the time word gets back to the folks that fill stuff up at the beginning.

When I did my first service, I guess I didn't concern myself about how much came out, only that something did come out. I refilled with the proper measured amount.

Don't give yourself a headache over it. Just sayin'.

John Henry
« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 07:17:33 AM by Zoom Zoom »
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Online Kev m

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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2021, 07:05:50 AM »
In your original post you refer to "they". They being the factory incorrectly filled the transmission and read dif, and the dealer didn't catch it?

As Guzzisteve mentioned, other than sticking something in there looking for a sign of fluid, I would doubt any dealer would actually drain, measure, then refill.

Except that KOF just said he just helped/witnessed Hamlin do it to five new bikes. Probably from experiences like this.
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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2021, 07:16:47 AM »
Okay, you are correct. I went back and re-read his post.

Thanks

John Henry
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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2021, 07:27:56 AM »
Okay, you are correct. I went back and re-read his post.

Thanks

John Henry

Don't get me wrong, someone like him is an absolute exception to the rule. I bet there are very few others that do that, even some of the "good" ones. It's just not something that should reasonably be necessary.
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Offline Vagrant

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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2021, 07:45:06 AM »
I know the V7III has a nylon screen shoved up the drain hole. I can't remember if the V85 did or not. If so it needs to be pulled to drain properly and be cleaned.
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Online Perazzimx14

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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2021, 08:01:44 AM »
Was it THE 1st service or the 1st time you serviced the bike?

If it was THE 1st service wouldnt the rear drive, transmission and engine oils be factory filled??
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Online Githianki

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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2021, 08:19:39 AM »
Don't get me wrong, someone like him is an absolute exception to the rule. I bet there are very few others that do that, even some of the "good" ones. It's just not something that should reasonably be necessary.

Kev, you're absolutely right.  The fact that he does it to doublecheck the factory is telling.

@Perrazzimx14,  THE 1st service.  Just because it was factory filled, doesn't mean it was filled right.
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Online dave1068

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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2021, 08:31:07 AM »
My bike is further proof that not everything done at the factory is done correctly. Perhaps Luigi worked on both bikes on a friday....

I knew Jim when he worked as a tech at Twisted Throttle before opening up his own shop. Good guy-
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Online Perazzimx14

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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2021, 10:20:31 AM »
Kev, you're absolutely right.  The fact that he does it to doublecheck the factory is telling.

@Perrazzimx14,  THE 1st service.  Just because it was factory filled, doesn't mean it was filled right.

Agreed but hard to complain to the dealer about what the factory did.

It's the ones who've cracked that the light shines through!

Online Kiwi_Roy

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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2021, 11:50:22 AM »
I kept my pre delivery certificate, it just says "Check all types of oil (engine, gearbox, transmission brake etc) so they just check to make sure the factory remembered to put some in, thats all you can expect I reckon
I would have been really nervous if I thought the dealer was changing fluids and was real happy to see less than 2 km on the odometer.
I'm sure the factory would have a fairly good method of squirting just the required amount in in seconds flat.

A tip when you are changing the oils, take the drain plug out first, the oil comes out quite slowly, then take the fill plug out, this keeps the discharge rate to a minimum until you have your hands/tools out of the way.
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Online Perazzimx14

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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2021, 12:05:52 PM »
I kept my pre delivery certificate, it just says "Check all types of oil (engine, gearbox, transmission brake etc) so they just check to make sure the factory remembered to put some in, thats all you can expect I reckon
I would have been really nervous if I thought the dealer was changing fluids and was real happy to see less than 2 km on the odometer.
I'm sure the factory would have a fairly good method of squirting just the required amount in in seconds flat.

A tip when you are changing the oils, take the drain plug out first, the oil comes out quite slowly, then take the fill plug out, this keeps the discharge rate to a minimum until you have your hands/tools out of the way.

ALWAYS take the fill plug out 1st. If you remove the drain plug 1st then strip of otherwise eff up the fill plug trying to remove you cannot refill with oil.

At a bare minimum break the fill plug loose 1st before moving the the drain plug. 
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Online Kiwi_Roy

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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2021, 11:39:52 PM »
ALWAYS take the fill plug out 1st. If you remove the drain plug 1st then strip of otherwise eff up the fill plug trying to remove you cannot refill with oil.

At a bare minimum break the fill plug loose 1st before moving the the drain plug.
That's pretty strange logic  :grin:
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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2021, 04:09:57 AM »
That's pretty strange logic  :grin:
Try it my way once, you won't go back.

So I used to do it drain plug 1st then open the fill plug seems like the natural order of things. Then year ago when changing the differential oils on my Toyota everyone was very explicit on open or at least break the fill plug 1st as its know strip or be corroded in place. If it does strip or you cannot remove it and you already drained the oil out you how do you refill it? I guess roll the vehicle over on its roof?

The massive outrush of a couple 100cc of oil from the rear drive is nothing a sheet of aluminum foil cannot corral.
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Online Kev m

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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2021, 06:43:44 AM »
That's pretty strange logic  :grin:
Try it my way once, you won't go back.

That's maintenance 101 on old stuff. You never know when you might run into a problem, so why build bad habbits.

And like Peraz, I've never been overcome by the deluge from a drain plug.
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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2021, 07:08:31 AM »
Oh goodie, a drain/fill plug debate. Much more entertaining than a tire or oil debate.

If a fill plug became damaged, or the threads in the housing, you're probably not going anywhere anyway until it is resolved, right?

Just sayin'. :popcorn:

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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2021, 07:24:27 AM »
Oh goodie, a drain/fill plug debate. Much more entertaining than a tire or oil debate.

If a fill plug became damaged, or the threads in the housing, you're probably not going anywhere anyway until it is resolved, right?

Just sayin'. :popcorn:

John Henry

More often than not is the damage is to the head of plug and will strip so its not even removed from the housing. Or its corroded in place and cannot be removed. In either instance that's the problem. The plug is blocking the fill hole you cannot get oil in.


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Online Kev m

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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2021, 07:56:37 AM »
Oh goodie, a drain/fill plug debate. Much more entertaining than a tire or oil debate.

If a fill plug became damaged, or the threads in the housing, you're probably not going anywhere anyway until it is resolved, right?

Just sayin'. :popcorn:

John Henry

Only if you drained it before you were sure you could refill it.

I mean long term it's still something you need to deal with, but if you've drained it, you need to deal with it RIGHT THEN AND THERE, not a few months down the line.
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Online Ncdan

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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2021, 08:17:50 AM »
Don't feel like the Lone Ranger.   The OWNER of the shop where I purchased my first 1400 was the same guy that serviced it.  When I picked it up, he told me that he wasn't really sure how to check the oil on this bike.   

I had to trailer it home because I couldn't get a ride to the dealer.   So I got home, drained out an extra quart and a half.
Rode the bike around most of the day, and then rechecked the oil level.  It was right at the fill mark.

I brought that quart and a half back to the dealer the next day, just in case they "shorted" someone else. 
His response was "I told you that I wasn't sure how to check the oil on that bike".
My question to him would have been I need for you to expect to me what in the H do you mean by I DONT KNOW HOW TO CHECK THE OIL IN A MOTORCYCLE I JUST SOLD YOU
How ignorant and irresponsible can someone be?

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2021, 08:23:08 AM »
Never had any issues w/350cc drain, just enough to not have problems. Hey, and Guzzi saves 150cc oil at a cost to YOU.
No level plug is an issue they should have fixed by now. It would make PDI not an issue at a cost to dealers.
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Online Zoom Zoom

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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2021, 08:35:45 AM »
More often than not is the damage is to the head of plug and will strip so its not even removed from the housing. Or its corroded in place and cannot be removed. In either instance that's the problem. The plug is blocking the fill hole you cannot get oil in.

Only if you drained it before you were sure you could refill it.

I mean long term it's still something you need to deal with, but if you've drained it, you need to deal with it RIGHT THEN AND THERE, not a few months down the line.

I know. I never said I didn't understand the logic.

It does beg the question of why. Why is it corroded or stripped?

1. Because it has been left unattended for a long period of time.
2. It has been over tightened.
Or both.

Carry on gentlemen. :popcorn:

John Henry
« Last Edit: May 04, 2021, 08:43:55 AM by Zoom Zoom »
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Re: V7iii First Service Grumblings
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2021, 08:45:39 AM »
I think it comes down to things like barn finds that haven't been touched in forever, or applications that don't require service as often.

The logic is sound. If you always do it the one way (habit) then you'll never get bit by the exception (above).

If you always do it the other way (that's your habit) then you MIGHT someday get bit.

There's thousands of other things we build habits with - putting the kickstand up right away when you straighten out a bike, using the engine cut button to shut it down, pull on a wrench or ratchet instead of pushing on it, keeping a ratchet steady/straight onto or into a fastener to keep from rounding it, not carrying a screwdriver in your pocket...etc.

You can choose or not to follow these habits and maybe it will never effect you negatively, but that one time you don't pull up the kickstand (and don't have an electronic nanny), need to shut the bike off in an emergency and thumb doesn't automatically find the kill switch, push on a wrench and lose balance or bust knuckles when it brakes free suddenly, round off a fastener, or fall and puncture yourself with a screwdriver.... well then you lost.

So it's cool, I mean do it or don't. I was just explaining the why many are taught that to form a habit.

But I was directly answering your question. YOU CAN BE GOING SOMEWHERE TILL IT IS RESOLVED, as long as you didn't drain it with no way to refill it.
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