Author Topic: Oil pressure sensor change solution!  (Read 17718 times)

Offline ITSec

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Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« on: July 14, 2015, 10:42:54 PM »
A number of people have mentioned that dealers are now recommending a new part for replacing the oil pressure sensor - usually, the new one is part number 641541. Our friends at AF1 Racing cross-reference this to earlier part numbers (ex AP9150414) (ex AP0956169) (ex AP8550512) (ex GU31768780).

Note that last one - it's the infamous oil pressure sensor used on many Moto Guzzis, the one with the nail-top head! The replacement, however, uses a spade-style connector, and there's (literally) the rub. On the newer big blocks, the alternator may be very close to the top of the sensor, and use of a standard connector may be a problem.

Old sensor at left, new one on right:


I've come up with a possible solution that allows use of either of these sensors, and that should work in almost any bike. It can be installed with minimal tools or skill; if you can get to the sensor, you can install this changed wiring. I can't change the location of the alternator or the height of the sensor, but this should solve the problem for many of you!

The actual work is to clip the old wiring just behind the boot connector, and remove that frustrating part. The kit includes a fully insulated crimp connector and a small sleeve of adhesive-lined shrink-wrap tubing. Slide the tubing onto the wire that's still left, strip the tip of the wire, crimp on the supplied connector, and then slide the shrink-wrap up into place. When you heat it, it will tighten up - and the adhesive will seal the joint!

Now, select the correct pigtail for the type of sensor you have.
  • The old style sensor uses the slide-on clip instead of the unwieldy boot. Attach the slide-on clip to the sensor, and attach the other end to the connector you just installed.
  • If you have the new sensor, use the pigtail that has the 'flag' connector at the end. Slide the flag over the sensor's spade connector, and again, plug the other end into the connector you just installed.

The supplied pigtails have been assembled using proper crimping tools and adhesive-lined shrink-wrap on all connections, and have been continuity and resistance checked.

Here's the tricky part - how do you get this easy-to-install problem solver?

EASY!

I am offering, while supplies last, postage and handling included within the US and Canada, one of these kits for free (as in beer!) - to anyone who asks, with only one condition: you must have given a donation to the operator of this forum in 2015. I don't care if the donation was big or small, but it must be in the current year.

This is a way for me to contribute back to the Guzzi community and to encourage support for the forum operators, and hopefully to get each of you to consider helping them too.

I will post pictures of the kit wiring as soon as I receive the slide-on connectors (in the next few days), and will have them ready to ship in about a week or so.
ITSecurity
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Offline ITSec

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2015, 12:40:44 PM »
I don't have one at hand, but I'll look into it - if Mike Haven or the gang at AF1 are watching, they may be able to compare the two.

Usually if there is an 'official' replacement of one part with another number, the two are mechanically the same.
ITSecurity
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I am but mad north-northwest!
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Offline mtiberio

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2015, 01:07:02 PM »
from the two pictures above, the one on the right looks like it has a finer thread.

Offline Mark_Z

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2015, 04:37:20 PM »
My new oil pressure sending unit came with another problem. The threaded portion was smaller the old unit and required an adaptor to fit the hole. The adaptor added about 3/4  in height and this meant I couldn't fit it under alternator. If I am ever forced to use this new part, I am going to try and fix up some swagelok fittings and then I can turn the unit sideways without any clearance issues.

Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2015, 04:37:20 PM »

Offline rodekyll

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2015, 05:40:54 PM »
I'm not familiar with the engine layout, so I'm asking to learn .  . .  if the nail head works but the spade head is too long, can't you just bend the spade over?

Offline ITSec

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2015, 12:36:12 AM »
I'm not familiar with the engine layout, so I'm asking to learn .  . .  if the nail head works but the spade head is too long, can't you just bend the spade over?

Given that the spade is part of a plate that goes through the insulator to the actual pressure sensing component, any hard manipulation of the spade could lead to leakage along that plate through the insulator. Some of these new units have already been reported as having issues of seepage on those seams, so I'd avoid it if possible.
ITSecurity
2012 Griso 8v SE - Tenni Green
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I am but mad north-northwest!
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Offline ITSec

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2015, 10:29:17 PM »
Here is a photo detailing what's in my free kit (with a donation to the forum) - two leads, and the required parts to change from the old boot to the selectable lead style that will work with either sensor type.



I found that installing this got rid of an intermittent connection problem with the boot connector, so whether you use the old or new connector, and even if you use an L-swage to fit it, this kit will make your life easier!
ITSecurity
2012 Griso 8v SE - Tenni Green
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2008 Norge GT - Silver

I am but mad north-northwest!
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Offline erice

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2015, 05:32:33 PM »
Looks great, and very timely for me.

My SERVICE message came on once last year on my Griso 1100.  This year so far already it's about 5-6 times, but clears if I restart (usually).  Becoming a pain, so this should make it go away for good.

Thanks
Eric
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Offline EvanM

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2015, 11:55:42 PM »
The threads are completely different.
I went to replace mine, as it was causing some problems this winter, and ordered a new one from Harper's. The old one is the one on the left (which my B1100 has), and the one with the supposed right part number was the one on the right. No way to make it work, unless you can make a thread adapter. Old is a metric thread (10x1.75?? if I remember correctly), and the new one seems to be either NPT (pipe thread) or a BSPT thread.
2007 Breva 1100


Moto

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2015, 08:42:21 AM »
A number of people have mentioned that dealers are now recommending a new part for replacing the oil pressure sensor - usually, the new one is part number 641541....

Old sensor at left, new one on right:


I've come up with a possible solution that allows use of either of these sensors, and that should work in almost any bike.

I believe I can help.

The one at the left is a modern big-block switch for a Griso 1100 or Breva 1100 (and probably others, maybe including early 1200's?). I just measured the thread of my spare with a thread gauge and caliper. It is metric M12x1.5, as found on the METRIC THREAD -- EXTENDED THREAD SIZE RANGE (ISO) page at the comprehensive Maryland Metrics thread reference page, https://mdmetric.com/thddata.htm#idx.

The one at the right is for small blocks. Per mgcycle.com: "PART NUMBER: 32768710. Oil pressure switch for Breva 750, V7 Classic, V7 Cafe, V7 Racer, Nevada 750 IE Classic. Previously sold under number 641541." As several previous posters pointed out, the thread is different. This can be seen more clearly in MG Cycle's photo:



So if a company is recommending the one on the right for your big block, a mistake has been made somewhere. Perhaps they looked up the Breva 750 instead of 1100. Perhaps Moto Guzzi made the mistake on their dealer website.

Though I bought the one on the left for my Griso 1100 from MG Cycle in May, 2014, it is no longer listed. But there is a different version, "PART NUMBER: 978854. Oil pressure switch Griso 1200 8V, Stelvio, 1200 Sport 8V," which appears to have the same coarser thread as the Griso 1100's, judging from their picture:



Note the different connector on the top, compared to the nail-head connector on the 1100 model. I guess this is a modification to the basic 1100 switch that was made to cure the loose connection problems the nail-head causes. I don't know what that new connector is, but I expect that it would work on the 1100 if the wire-side part of the connector were substituted for the nail-top's mate.

I expect Moto Guzzi figured the new 1200 switch would substitute for the old 1100 one as a replacement part, but dropped the ball somewhere along the line in explaining this, or figuring out what new connector the old 1100 wiring would need to employ.

I suggest someone try the MG Cycle 1200 switch on their 1100, and report back. Calling Rick or Gordon might help clarify the difference between it and the old switch. MG Cycle is out of stock on the new 1200 switch, but dealers like Harpers or Moto International, etc., might have one in stock. If they also have a metric thread gauge and caliper they could see if has 1.5mm pitch and a outside diameter of about 11.8mm (the spec is 11.73 to 11.97mm). I have my spare, so this is not something I'm going to pursue right now.

Good luck, and thanks for offering your suggested fix.

Moto

« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 09:06:38 AM by Moto »

Offline ITSec

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2015, 03:03:39 PM »
Thanks for the additional info, Moto!

Looking closely at the photo of 978854, it appears the connector is a spade within a shroud, and the shroud appears to have been sealed over the top of an assembly rather like the new small-block unit. The irregular line of what appears to be a glue or sealant leads me to this.

I'm going to try and find a dealer with the 978854 in hand, and see if I can get them to give us some confirmed information on this. If Piaggio has been telling dealers the incorrect number for big block sensor replacement, this is something we need to get corrected. In either case, an adapter will be needed for any bikes that have the older wiring; I will make any required adjustments to my kit once we have the details, and will send out an additional pigtail if needed I suspect the flag connector I've got will work with 978854.

UPDATE: Having checked with Moto International, they confirm that the cross-listing is to the 641541 part number (had them check for my 2008 Norge). It appears Piaggio has an issue here. I have contacted them and they are checking into it. I'll post all updates in this thread.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 03:30:57 PM by ITSec »
ITSecurity
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I am but mad north-northwest!
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Moto

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2015, 06:04:01 PM »
It appears Piaggio has an issue here. I have contacted them and they are checking into it. I'll post all updates in this thread.

Way to go! I'll eagerly await your result.

Offline BAT 11

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2015, 01:13:17 AM »
New member here BAT11,   Comment on the factory oil pressure sensor and threaded adaptor. Mine blew out, covered lower motor and rear tyre with engine oil. Had to get transported to workshop for replacement.  It was a 2011 Norge with old type nail shape connection.  Guzzi dealer obtained the factory upgraded one with adaptor,  has spade connection. The new sensor has a fine thread. Sensor was $21, adaptor $17.   I bought another as a spare to keep in the toolkit.   That I was the only issue to appear on my Norge. Runs smoothly, average 4.5 litres per 100kms.   Here in OZ.  Hope this was of some interest to Norge owners.  Cheers Ian

Offline ITSec

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2015, 07:02:41 PM »
Looks great, and very timely for me.

My SERVICE message came on once last year on my Griso 1100.  This year so far already it's about 5-6 times, but clears if I restart (usually).  Becoming a pain, so this should make it go away for good.

Thanks
Eric

Your kit went out in the mail today - depending on Harper's border guards, you should have it middle to end of next week.

And as my friend Tommy used to say "Vote early, vote often - and vote New Democrat!"  :grin:
ITSecurity
2012 Griso 8v SE - Tenni Green
2013 Stelvio NTX - Copper
2008 Norge GT - Silver

I am but mad north-northwest!
When the wind is southerly, I can tell a hawk from a handsaw...

andyc740

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2016, 09:54:48 AM »
Bump.  Long-time lurker here.  I've been having the oil can blues for several months on my Breva 1100.  After reading the thread, decided I needed to give the rubber boot on the top of the sensor a friendly squeeze and didn't see the oil can for several months, but now it's back.  And the sensor is seeping oil.

AF1 is selling a sensor with the M12x1.5 thread, http://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=76807(NP-OP6065).



However Napa Auto Parts also sells the same switch for several dollars cheaper., but doesn't stock it.  http://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/ECHOP6065_0167730766  Guess I'll buy one from Napa and let my mechanic figure out how to install it.

Offline ITSec

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2016, 01:54:07 PM »
Thanks for the heads-up and for the part numbers at both AF1 and Napa. Hard to say without measuring, but that sensor appears to be a bit shorter on top - which may reduce the clearance problem some have mentioned.

All your mechanic will need to do is convert the wire from a slide-on clip connector (for older nail-head style) to a right-angle female connector that matches the spade size. This may require a slight extension of the wiring since the orientation of the spade may affect the length needed. One advantage of the older style connector was that the nail head could always be accessed from any orientation.
ITSecurity
2012 Griso 8v SE - Tenni Green
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I am but mad north-northwest!
When the wind is southerly, I can tell a hawk from a handsaw...

Online Huzo

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2016, 07:28:38 PM »
Back a couple of years my Norge started throwing up the dreaded large red triangle warning while riding, I found I could make it go away by pulling in the clutch then turning off the ignition key, let the motor stop and re start by letting out the clutch out, worked every time although a PITA. I assumed (correctly) that it was the oil pressure switch. I too, got the wrong one sent, ( mine is an '07 Norge with the coarse thread), they dug around and found the correct one and told me not to bother sending back the unusable one. The issue with mine was the slide on clip lost it's spring tension and contact was intermittent. I fitted the replacement and tie wrapped the lead to the body of the switch. Does anyone think it's possible to get a flexible hose made from a hydraulics supplier and mount the switch remotely ?

Online Huzo

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2016, 02:39:13 AM »
Hi BAT 11 (Ian), how's your Norge going generally, I always take a heightened interest when I see someone from Oz. Where are you from, I'm 100 k Northwest of Melbourne near Ballarat. Also what highway speed do you have to stick to so as to get 4.5 L/100k ?

Offline ITSec

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2016, 02:56:05 PM »
Does anyone think it's possible to get a flexible hose made from a hydraulics supplier and mount the switch remotely ?

Well, the theory is good, but the practice might be questionable. Since the pressure is fairly low (0.2 to 0.6 BAR, 3 to 8 or so psi), the length of hose might introduce a lowering of the pressure, particularly at lower rpms, leading to misread results. Also, you'd have to run a ground wire to the sensor. All in all, I think it's better to replace the sensor, and re-wire the connector. Since doing so, some 40,000 miles now, I haven't had to touch it again.
ITSecurity
2012 Griso 8v SE - Tenni Green
2013 Stelvio NTX - Copper
2008 Norge GT - Silver

I am but mad north-northwest!
When the wind is southerly, I can tell a hawk from a handsaw...

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2016, 08:48:54 PM »
Yeah ok, going to be hard to argue with that logic

Offline ITSec

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2016, 02:10:17 PM »
Here is a photo detailing what's in my free kit (with a donation to the forum) - two leads, and the required parts to change from the old boot to the selectable lead style that will work with either sensor type.



I found that installing this got rid of an intermittent connection problem with the boot connector, so whether you use the old or new connector, and even if you use an L-swage to fit it, this kit will make your life easier!

Just renewing the thread to announce availability of another batch of these kits. If you have requested a kit and have not received it, please PM me or post here. Nine more full kits will be ready to ship by the middle of next week.

Also, if you do NOT need the old-style connector, let me know. I can get your kit on its way faster and save myself a few bucks by supplying only the new spade connector wire; I have plenty of supplies to make lots of these.

If you have the old style sensor and want to simply replace the connector (the factory boot one is prone to problems), you can order these yourself from sources on eBay or from Summit Racing. Search for 'PICO 5665 PT connector', or for 'GM single wire coolant temperature sensor connector'. Cost with shipping is in the $8 - $12 range for one-offs.

Remember, the only thing you need to do to get one of these kits is ask - and make a contribution to Wildguzzi!
ITSecurity
2012 Griso 8v SE - Tenni Green
2013 Stelvio NTX - Copper
2008 Norge GT - Silver

I am but mad north-northwest!
When the wind is southerly, I can tell a hawk from a handsaw...

Offline rodekyll

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2016, 02:19:57 PM »
This is a lot of work to improve the sender to a device we call an "idiot" light.  For the same effort you could install a real gauge.     :popcorn:

Offline ITSec

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2016, 02:29:37 PM »
This is a lot of work to improve the sender to a device we call an "idiot" light.  For the same effort you could install a real gauge.     :popcorn:

True. But then you'd have to figure out how to re-program the ECM to ignore the fact it is no longer receiving the information it expects.

If I could find an oil pressure gauge/temp gauge combo and deal with the ECM issue, I'd definitely invest the effort!
ITSecurity
2012 Griso 8v SE - Tenni Green
2013 Stelvio NTX - Copper
2008 Norge GT - Silver

I am but mad north-northwest!
When the wind is southerly, I can tell a hawk from a handsaw...

Offline rodekyll

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2016, 02:55:21 PM »
You're making it an either/or thing.  There's no reason not to have it both ways -- the stuff to keep the ecu happy and the quantitative feedback for your personal edification.

Offline maquette

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2016, 06:03:28 PM »

Remember, the only thing you need to do to get one of these kits is ask - and make a contribution to Wildguzzi!

Tony,

I installed mine on my SP today, . . . so easy a caveman could do it. Thank you very much.

Tom
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Offline BAT 11

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2016, 07:21:49 PM »
Hi all, Norge 8v.  I have replaced my original sensor at 11k due to oil blowout. Changed to factory upgraded one with new adaptor. No problems since,checked at 20k.  Due to regularity the guzzi sensors fails may it be possible long term to fit a steel braided extension oil hose from the sensor position between the V to an easily observed location to check for weepage. The left side in front of the starter looks doable. Any thoughts.

Offline ITSec

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2016, 09:39:36 PM »
Tony,

I installed mine on my SP today, . . . so easy a caveman could do it. Thank you very much.

Tom

No problem - glad to offer this help to the community, and support to the forum!
ITSecurity
2012 Griso 8v SE - Tenni Green
2013 Stelvio NTX - Copper
2008 Norge GT - Silver

I am but mad north-northwest!
When the wind is southerly, I can tell a hawk from a handsaw...

Offline ITSec

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2016, 09:42:16 PM »
Hi all, Norge 8v.  I have replaced my original sensor at 11k due to oil blowout. Changed to factory upgraded one with new adaptor. No problems since,checked at 20k.  Due to regularity the guzzi sensors fails may it be possible long term to fit a steel braided extension oil hose from the sensor position between the V to an easily observed location to check for weepage. The left side in front of the starter looks doable. Any thoughts.

The concept is workable, as long as the pressure as seen by the sensor doesn't fall because of the hose. However, the real wrinkle is that the electrical circuit relies on ground through the block. If the extension is steel braided and the fittings provide an adequate ground through the hose braid, then it might work. Otherwise, no signal no workee...
ITSecurity
2012 Griso 8v SE - Tenni Green
2013 Stelvio NTX - Copper
2008 Norge GT - Silver

I am but mad north-northwest!
When the wind is southerly, I can tell a hawk from a handsaw...

Offline Phang

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2016, 03:55:48 AM »
No problem - glad to offer this help to the community, and support to the forum!

I had the same thought and wanted to do it the next time when I lift the tank for other works.

It should allow us to change the oil pressure switch as easy/frequent as we change the spark plug :smiley:

2009 Griso 8V SE Tenni (Green)
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Offline lucky phil

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Re: Oil pressure sensor change solution!
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2016, 06:03:01 PM »
I had the same thought and wanted to do it the next time when I lift the tank for other works.

It should allow us to change the oil pressure switch as easy/frequent as we change the spark plug :smiley:


Yep, you could actually lengthen the hose and mount it next to the instruments so you could monitor it as you rode. Then you could also run a separate ground wire to the block just to be sure it had the proper grounding.
Maybe you could have a small lipstick camera focused on it as well so you can see if it leaks or anything while the bike is parked and your at work or whatever.
Seems doable.

Ciao 
« Last Edit: July 23, 2016, 07:19:58 PM by lucky phil »
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