Author Topic: racing green?  (Read 866 times)

Offline remfanuk

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racing green?
« on: August 03, 2022, 05:57:45 AM »
anyone ever found a good match for the 50's MG racing green?  thanks.

Offline cliffrod

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Re: racing green?
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2022, 07:08:52 AM »
Green Zinc Chromate aircraft primer was the original green “paint” used.  More info for your consideration-  https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=115808.0
« Last Edit: August 03, 2022, 07:13:10 AM by cliffrod »
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1981 Lemans CX100
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExX3YmQel_Q
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Offline remfanuk

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Re: racing green?
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2022, 09:15:49 AM »
thanks for the link...looks to be an interesting topic!  i am looking for something that is closest to the v8 racer which in most photos is green, rather than the quite lime green of the Legnano variety.  i am going to cerakote the frame the closest to what i can find to the racer green.

Offline egschade

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Re: racing green?
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2022, 10:43:41 AM »
I used the TouchUpDirect Tenni Green for my 2012 Griso SE and it was a good match: https://touchupdirect.com/shop/touch-up-paint/moto-guzzi-tenni-green/#pf-product=aerosol&pf-kit=na



The elder Eric in NJ

2020 V85TT Adventure
1985 LeMans 1000
1984 V65 SP

Past Guzzis:
V7 III
V50
Griso 1200SE Tenni
Breva 1100
EV Touring

Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

Re: racing green?
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2022, 10:43:41 AM »

Offline remfanuk

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Re: racing green?
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2022, 11:33:10 AM »
nice bike...and colour!  looks to be a bit darker than the racing v8, but otherwise i like it.

Offline 5154guzzi

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Re: racing green?
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2022, 02:22:59 PM »









Had this custom mixed for land speed bike about 15 years ago,  PPG.  Later found a Cessna airplane color that was pretty darn close after adding flattening agent.  Will look for the code later today if I still have any.

Offline yackee

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Re: racing green?
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2022, 05:13:02 PM »
Could you "paint" a bike with aircraft primer and expect the finish to last? I'm thinking it might get a nice patina with time?

Offline Murray

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Re: racing green?
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2022, 06:59:15 PM »
Could you "paint" a bike with aircraft primer and expect the finish to last? I'm thinking it might get a nice patina with time?

It would depend on the material underneath it and different materials will age at different rates, a lot of primers have moisture absorbing properties to allow the seal coat to stick. Port etch attacks the material under it to remove the natural oxidizing of aluminium to allow adhesion. Worth keeping in mind when these finishes were used on race vehicles especially factory efforts, the idea of the vehicle lasting more than a couple of meets without needing some kind of body work was a bit off with the fairies.

Offline Turin

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Re: racing green?
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2022, 01:01:13 AM »
depending on the photo, there seems to be 3 different greens on the V8. I like going down to the paint shop and looking at paint swatches in the sunlight.



1997 Daytona RS
1987 LeMans SE Dave's Cycle Racer
1984 LeMans III
19?? Sidlow Guzzi
1974 850-T Sport
1969 A-series Ambassador
1996 Triumph Daytona 1200
1991 Ducati 907ie ( Paso )
1982 Alfa Romeo GTV6 Balocco SE 3.0

Offline remfanuk

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Re: racing green?
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2022, 02:28:59 AM »
the photo with bike number 9 is the one that is most like what i have seen...not seen the others before.  i will order some more cerakote swatches to get an idea i think.  thanks guys.

Offline Dharma Bum

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Re: racing green?
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2022, 10:59:37 AM »
Matte Italian Olive, available at Lowes.


Offline Tusayan

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Re: racing green?
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2022, 03:21:53 PM »
I have a set of aircraft wings hanging on the wall that were zinc chromated in 1946.  They still look pretty good, this is not primer like the gray rattle can stuff that you buy at the auto parts store, it is made to last and not necessarily to be top coated.

Modern restorations and recreations of 1950s Guzzi GP bikes are not being painted in the color they wore in period.  Zinc chromate is very difficult to source in Europe nowadays because its hazardous to breathe the dust if its sanded. When looking at original 1950s color photos, the color looks like this.





There are three factory Guzzi race bikes in this photo of the start line of the 1957 Belgian Grand Prix 350 class.





The second of the three V8 photos posted above looks pretty close and not coincidentally it’s the only one that appears to have an old paint job that may have been done in the 50s.  I believe the Sammy Miller bike is a replica that didn’t exist very long ago.  The color used on the original circa-1971 V7 Sports had enough yellow to be fairly close, what Piaggio has done with the Tenni bikes etc is nowhere near. 
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 03:59:03 PM by Tusayan »

Offline cliffrod

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Re: racing green?
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2022, 04:15:49 PM »
Maybe this is relevant regarding the different colors.  A quick google of “zinc chromate primer” produces a rattle can of the more dangerous zinc chromate in the lighter yellow/green color that seems familiar to some old guzzi pics-





Also shown in that search is a comparable rattle can of less dangerous zinc phosphate primer in the darker green color that also appears in some guzzi pics of the same or similar bikes-





Product descriptions of both state they are designed for use on aluminum.     More description & comparison of the two products is here
https://www.ippmagazine.com/types-of-coating/zich-rich-primers/





1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1981 Lemans CX100
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExX3YmQel_Q
http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio YuoTube Channel-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifz

Offline Turin

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Re: racing green?
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2022, 05:12:03 PM »
I went down the Zinc Chromate rabbit hole a few years ago looking for the right color to paint a set of wheels ( Gold ). The color is inconsistent as it was used as protection from oxidation, not to look pretty.
On a work trip to Indianapolis, I had a chance to go the the brickyard and see the speedway museum. Lots of zinc chromate coating on wheels of race cars! Too bad none of the colors matched, sometimes on the same car.  here are some pics from my trip.
 








post images



« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 05:15:14 PM by Turin »
1997 Daytona RS
1987 LeMans SE Dave's Cycle Racer
1984 LeMans III
19?? Sidlow Guzzi
1974 850-T Sport
1969 A-series Ambassador
1996 Triumph Daytona 1200
1991 Ducati 907ie ( Paso )
1982 Alfa Romeo GTV6 Balocco SE 3.0

Offline Tusayan

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Re: racing green?
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2022, 06:16:44 PM »
@cliffrod, Yes, zinc phosphate rattle cans have replaced zinc chromate rattle cans almost entirely for painting odds and ends in the field.  And yes, its a darker green.  Epoxy primer has likewise replaced zinc chromate in aircraft production.

The situation with old magnesium racing wheels is equally interesting but in general has nothing to do with the greeny gold zinc chromate paint that was used on racing Guzzi fairings in the 50s - because the mag wheels were not painted from the factory.  They were finished with a dichromate chemical conversion coating, typically Dow 7, which is a different thing (not paint) and a different color.   Both this and zinc chromate primer were 1940s aircraft tech.  Dow 7 is a so-called 'in process' coating, and isn't durable.  However, if the airframe manufacturer wanted to paint magnesium wheels in some particular color after receiving them, Dow 7 was a good base on which to do it and you can't leave cast magnesium completely naked.  Racing people buying mag wheels probably liked the gold color, often didn't bother with paint and since unlike zinc chromate paint it wasn't designed to last, it faded quickly.

Here's what Dow 7 looks like when its new on a magnesium race wheel.



The fact that cool cast mag wheels were gold when introduced for race cars and motorcycles in the 60s and 70s is because the real race versions were magnesium, and the magnesium had Dow 7 chemical conversion coating…. They weren’t originally gold for styling reasons, it was just luck.  That the gold chemical conversion coating matched most any body paint color also didn’t hurt aftermarket sales.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 06:47:06 PM by Tusayan »

Offline Turin

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Re: racing green?
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2022, 09:02:05 PM »
Dow 7, thank you! I couldn't remember the name. more pics.








1997 Daytona RS
1987 LeMans SE Dave's Cycle Racer
1984 LeMans III
19?? Sidlow Guzzi
1974 850-T Sport
1969 A-series Ambassador
1996 Triumph Daytona 1200
1991 Ducati 907ie ( Paso )
1982 Alfa Romeo GTV6 Balocco SE 3.0

Offline Tusayan

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Re: racing green?
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2022, 11:01:38 PM »
Another period photo, from the Italian GP, two Guzzi factory GP bikes shown





This one appears to be the start of same race, if you look closely there are three factory Guzzis shown including the one shown more clearly in the photo above.  Numbers 1, 3 and 41.  All showing the same fairing color, which is also the same as the Belgian Gran Prix and Isle of Man photos in the earlier post.





« Last Edit: August 06, 2022, 07:27:53 PM by Tusayan »

Offline remfanuk

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Re: racing green?
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2022, 04:36:52 AM »
wow...lots of interesting facts there, thank you.  also of interest is what you guys have said about the gold finish on mag wheels.  the idea of my bike in terms of aesthetics is to go for a green frame and swingarm in an olive/khaki colour and now i am liking the idea of gold wheels and the links there with racing.  to get matches in cerakote i shall order some swatches...if anyone has any opinions on which cerakote colours are best fit for the green and the gold, please let me know.

https://www.cerakote.com/shop/cerakote-coating

Offline Turin

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Re: racing green?
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2022, 09:50:41 PM »
I powder coated my wheels. Cerakote doesn't seem to have that many options. I went with prismatic powders.





1997 Daytona RS
1987 LeMans SE Dave's Cycle Racer
1984 LeMans III
19?? Sidlow Guzzi
1974 850-T Sport
1969 A-series Ambassador
1996 Triumph Daytona 1200
1991 Ducati 907ie ( Paso )
1982 Alfa Romeo GTV6 Balocco SE 3.0

Online bmc5733946

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Re: racing green?
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2022, 06:14:25 AM »
I also went with prismatic colors.











Brian
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2004 BREVA 750     
1975  Convert

Offline remfanuk

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Re: racing green?
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2022, 11:12:14 AM »
gold wheels all day long  :grin:  i have got some cerakote swatches and will let you know what i decide.

Offline remfanuk

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Re: racing green?
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2022, 12:55:51 PM »
the one with the white dot is the closest in real life.



cerakote call it zombie green
« Last Edit: August 15, 2022, 12:56:42 PM by remfanuk »


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