Bevel Drive Bolts

[luthier]

OK mate, you just need the RIGHT screwdrivers. I have a very old set of 5 and for this I would be using either the largest or the next down. You have to brutally raise the end of that circlip, yes it  is stiff, but once you get something jammed under it you should then use a second one next to it to work your way round. It has a very wide opening so it shouldn't take more than two leverages before it pops out.
The very small drivers are not robust enough. Alternatively as someone else suggested use an awl as that point should go in and bring one end out a little.
However if this still challenges you then give up right now and send it to someone who knows what the hell they are doing. Because the way you are going you will simply destroy a very expensive bit of gear for what? To salve your ego? Not worth the effort my friend.

[remfanuk]

OK mate, you just need the RIGHT screwdrivers. I have a very old set of 5 and for this I would be using either the largest or the next down. You have to brutally raise the end of that circlip, yes it  is stiff, but once you get something jammed under it you should then use a second one next to it to work your way round. It has a very wide opening so it shouldn't take more than two leverages before it pops out.
The very small drivers are not robust enough. Alternatively as someone else suggested use an awl as that point should go in and bring one end out a little.
However if this still challenges you then give up right now and send it to someone who knows what the hell they are doing. Because the way you are going you will simply destroy a very expensive bit of gear for what? To salve your ego? Not worth the effort my friend.

have you done this procedure?  a large screwdriver cannot fit in the slot that the ring sits in.  this is not my first experience of circlips or similar.  the ring moves around its slot preventing getting underneath it.  something about this very easily removable ring is not right.  i dont know if someone has been in this before and buggered it about but this will simply not move.  there is not enough room to get anything under it, believe me i have extensive tools to be able to do this.

fella, this is not about ego.  i am trying to do things myself and learn...nothing to do with ego.  thanks for your really helpful advice.  i thought this was a respectful forum.

[Chuck in Indiana]

I know your feathers are ruffled, but take a deep breath. I also know you are new here, and don't know one poster from another. You have received advice from some quite knowledgeable people that have done this job before.

[luthier]

Hey Fella , I actually meant the larger ones from the Jewellers set, but hey, go forth and learn , though from what I've read you appear reluctant to do so.  And maybe your ego is not at stake but your bevel box certainly is.

[Wayne Orwig]

Is the bearing race up against the clip trapping it in place? Maybe (heat and) press the bearing race away from the clip for more working room.

[Ncdan]

have you done this procedure?  a large screwdriver cannot fit in the slot that the ring sits in.  this is not my first experience of circlips or similar.  the ring moves around its slot preventing getting underneath it.  something about this very easily removable ring is not right.  i dont know if someone has been in this before and buggered it about but this will simply not move.  there is not enough room to get anything under it, believe me i have extensive tools to be able to do this.

fella, this is not about ego.  i am trying to do things myself and learn...nothing to do with ego.  thanks for your really helpful advice.  i thought this was a respectful forum.

Easy Sir.
You have some very experienced guys here attempting to help you with this endeavor.
I have not seen a foul here. Just give it a chance to get a more clear explanation👍

Dan

[remfanuk]

I know your feathers are ruffled, but take a deep breath. I also know you are new here, and don't know one poster from another. You have received advice from some quite knowledgeable people that have done this job before.

new or otherwise to this forum i have been respectful and appreciated the responses until getting called egotistical or unwilling to learn.  i have tried what people have said on here and nothing has worked.  so yes, frustrated and take exception to stupid comments below...not referring to you Chuck as you have been helpful, as have those that have commented earlier in the thread.

Hey Fella , I actually meant the larger ones from the Jewellers set, but hey, go forth and learn , though from what I've read you appear reluctant to do so.  And maybe your ego is not at stake but your bevel box certainly is.

if you were specific about the jewellers set then i would have responded differently.  and if you have read this thread you will see that i have accepted the wisdom from others and tried to do what has been asked but nothing works.  so in fact i have been the opposite to being reluctant to learn at all.  read the thread and thanks for your comments 

Easy Sir.
You have some very experienced guys here attempting to help you with this endeavor.
I have not seen a foul here. Just give it a chance to get a more clear explanation👍

Dan

.

Thanks Dan, i have appreciated the comments from more learned persons than myself.  i think its clear those who have been helpful and those that have not, and i have responded in kind.

Is the bearing race up against the clip trapping it in place? Maybe (heat and) press the bearing race away from the clip for more working room.

thanks Wayne for some constructive help here.  yes, i think you are correct that the clip appears to be trapped against the race which is why it appears to not be moving which might have been as a result of me applying heat earlier in the process.  if i am unlikely to damage it with more heat i can give it a go. 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Thanks Dan, i have appreciated the comments from more learned persons than myself.  i think its clear those who have been helpful and those that have not, and i have responded in kind.

I haven't seen any not helpful comments.

    Is the bearing race up against the clip trapping it in place? Maybe (heat and) press the bearing race away from the clip for more working room.


thanks Wayne for some constructive help here.  yes, i think you are correct that the clip appears to be trapped against the race which is why it appears to not be moving which might have been as a result of me applying heat earlier in the process.  if i am unlikely to damage it with more heat i can give it a go.

Lucky Phil has already mentioned that in page 1. Now, heat from a heat gun, not an acetylene torch.. 

[sib]

Use TWO screwdrivers or picks, one to slide behind one end of the clip and the other to hold the other end of the clip to prevent it from rotating away from the first screwdriver.  I've used this approach many times over the past 80 years and it usually works.

In fact, if you use two picks or screwdrivers and push them against both ends of the clip simultaneously, there's a good chance you can push the clip out the "back" end of the shaft .

Good luck

[remfanuk]

thanks for all the help guys.  i am totally frustrated with this issue and have perhaps taken some comments on board in a way they were probably not intended.  my apologies.

i will have another crack at it but feel that the ring is buggered which is why it won't come out.  cutting the bearing race would be quite drastic as they're 60 quid a go and second hand bevel drives are expensive.  i can see me reassembling it and just painting the backing plate.

thanks.

[Wayne Orwig]

Heat the bearing race a LOT using hot air. (flame is TOO much)
Tap the bearing race away from the clip a tiny bit, being slow and careful. (and lots of heat on the race)
Once you have a tiny gap there, using tiny screw drives or ice pick type tools, use your three hands to spread the gap and slip it off.

Just avoid too much caffeine so you don't go overboard.

[Ncdan]

thanks for all the help guys.  i am totally frustrated with this issue and have perhaps taken some comments on board in a way they were probably not intended.  my apologies.

i will have another crack at it but feel that the ring is buggered which is why it won't come out.  cutting the bearing race would be quite drastic as they're 60 quid a go and second hand bevel drives are expensive.  i can see me reassembling it and just painting the backing plate.

thanks.

Well spoken Nigel and I feel sure you will work it out👍

Dan

[remfanuk]

Heat the bearing race a LOT using hot air. (flame is TOO much)
Tap the bearing race away from the clip a tiny bit, being slow and careful. (and lots of heat on the race)
Once you have a tiny gap there, using tiny screw drives or ice pick type tools, use your three hands to spread the gap and slip it off.

Just avoid too much caffeine so you don't go overboard.

I will try this in the morning, thank you.  i fear that my application of heat (flame) resulted in the ring becoming immovable now.  doh.

[Chuck in Indiana]

thanks for all the help guys.  i am totally frustrated with this issue and have perhaps taken some comments on board in a way they were probably not intended.  my apologies.

Attaboy. As far as I can see, nobody meant any harm.. only trying to help. I've said here before that "education is *expensive*." I (we) were afraid that you were going to get an expensive education if you tried to cut that bearing race and boogered up the rear drive. It's bad enough already with sharp pieces of hardened metal and carborundum that will have to be *totally* cleaned out.

I will try this in the morning, thank you.  i fear that my application of heat (flame) resulted in the ring becoming immovable now.  doh.

Unless you caused a color change on the bearing surface  probably not. It might be instructive to look at it with a 10 power glass and see if the end is mushroomed, or the race is actually against it and keeping it from moving.

[remfanuk]

how would you go about ensuring all the tiny bits of the washer are hoovered up?  i was thinking dragging a very small magnet all over it, followed by some literal hoovering up.  dont want any of this to get into the main bearing. 

dont have a magnifying glass but will take some macros if my phone will do it and have a good luck.  every chance i mushroomed it.  the bearing race didnt change colour so that should be okay for some heat gun heat tomorrow.  will report back.

[Chuck in Indiana]

how would you go about ensuring all the tiny bits of the washer are hoovered up?  i was thinking dragging a very small magnet all over it, followed by some literal hoovering up.  dont want any of this to get into the main bearing. 

dont have a magnifying glass but will take some macros if my phone will do it and have a good luck.  every chance i mushroomed it.  the bearing race didnt change colour so that should be okay for some heat gun heat tomorrow.  will report back.

After making sure there were no burrs left after grinding, I would completely disassemble it, clean it as best I could, then clean it in a parts washer with clean fluid in it, and blow everything off with compressed air.
You are right. You don't want *any* of this to get into the main bearing.
When my last pup, Austin, was working on the KLR from Hell  I told him, "Austin, you are probably the best natural mechanic I've ever known. Still, you don't know what you don't know yet." Precision fits and tolerances are not for the casual mechanic. There is more than meets the untrained eye. Again, I mean absolutely no offense. Rear drives are difficult.

[John A]

Chuck said it well . The only thing I’d add is when you are done cleaning it, go over it with a clean cloth with a dust product like Endust sprayed lightly on the cloth and q tips for the crevices. I’d say use lint free cloth but it ain’t a gearcase on a turbine so just wipe every surface and you’ll be fine

[remfanuk]

the ring ends are deformed so not likely to come free without major surgery i should imagine.  so to avoid costly complex processes to remove the ring i am going to thoroughly clean and put back together and paint the backing plate as that was what this was all about originally.

[1down5up]

It may just be the chamfer on the race but it looks like you have room to mode the race down a few thou which will then help give you the room to release the ring.

A bit of light heat with a torch and the right sized socket.....

[John A]

I don’t know your location but if you are near west central WI you are welcome to bring it by here.

[Wayne Orwig]

In this photo, it very clearly shows that the bearing race has the clip TRAPPED in place. If the bearing race can be heated and pressed AWAY from the clip, the clip will likely almost fall off.


In this photo, is the large washer under the bearing race loose a bit? If so, you need to heat and press the race toward the large washer (away from the clip).

[remfanuk]

Thanks for the responses...i think it was mentioned earlier about the race possibly being able to move but i didn't understand it until now.  yes, the washer below the race and the one below that washer all move freely by quite a lot really.  i will have a go at that tomorrow now i understand what has been said to me...might even work! 

[remfanuk]

to those who recommended this course of action, and i didn't understand what was being said, i thank you.  indeed, the ring was trapped...not sure how as i hadn't given it any force downwards.  either way it's out now so i can then look at stripping the rest of it.  there is a small nick on the edge of the race...any reason that won't be okay?

thanks.

[Wayne Orwig]

Finally.

I would GENTLY rub a whetstone ONLY ON THE VERY EDGE of that to make sure there is not high spot on the nick. The low spot on the edge should not matter.

[Pescatore]

...indeed, the ring was trapped...not sure how as i hadn't given it any force downwards.  either way it's out now so i can then look at stripping the rest of it.

I was silently cheering you on.
So how did you get the ring out exactly?  Is reassembly the same?
Do you have to replace the ring?

[Wayne Orwig]

In this photo, are there scratches in the metal spindle above the bearing race?

If so, that may be a very very bad thing. I think the oil seal down in the housing rides on that.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

In this photo, are there scratches in the metal spindle above the bearing race?

If so, that may be a very very bad thing. I think the oil seal down in the housing rides on that.

One of the design "features" I dislike the most about the small-block rear drive. Any scratches need to be polished out before reassembly, or it'll be a leaker.

[remfanuk]

Finally.

I was silently cheering you on.
So how did you get the ring out exactly?  Is reassembly the same?
Do you have to replace the ring?

I followed Wayne's instructions and it was so easy!  no wonder i couldn't fathom why i couldn't get it out, but heat gun, impact driver on the race and a gentle tap and it almost fell out!  this is my best win this year.  i did use the small bladed screwdriver to hold one end of the ring still whilst really gently using a pick on the other end...it was like the ring saw it coming and just jumped out.  so happy.  yes, i presume reassembly is the reverse.  absolutely replacing the ring.

I would GENTLY rub a whetstone ONLY ON THE VERY EDGE of that to make sure there is not high spot on the nick. The low spot on the edge should not matter.

i shall do this, thanks.

there are scratches in the spindle...i haven't been out to the garage to have a look so not sure what kind of problem that might cause.  again, a very fine wet and dry gentle rub around that exposed part of the spindle might help?  any way of checking in advance with a test to see if leakage is a certainty?

cheers.

[lucky phil]

I followed Wayne's instructions and it was so easy!  no wonder i couldn't fathom why i couldn't get it out, but heat gun, impact driver on the race and a gentle tap and it almost fell out!  this is my best win this year.  i did use the small bladed screwdriver to hold one end of the ring still whilst really gently using a pick on the other end...it was like the ring saw it coming and just jumped out.  so happy.  yes, i presume reassembly is the reverse.  absolutely replacing the ring.

I would GENTLY rub a whetstone ONLY ON THE VERY EDGE of that to make sure there is not high spot on the nick. The low spot on the edge should not matter.


i shall do this, thanks.

there are scratches in the spindle...i haven't been out to the garage to have a look so not sure what kind of problem that might cause.  again, a very fine wet and dry gentle rub around that exposed part of the spindle might help?  any way of checking in advance with a test to see if leakage is a certainty?

cheers.

Sigh. https://www.skf.com/au/products/industrial-seals/power-transmission-seals/wear-sleeves/skf-speedi-sleeve

Phil

[remfanuk]

Sigh. https://www.skf.com/au/products/industrial-seals/power-transmission-seals/wear-sleeves/skf-speedi-sleeve

Phil

hmmm...not sure that sort of thing is necessary.