Author Topic: Europe trip trouble  (Read 3338 times)

Online Huzo

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Europe trip trouble
« on: October 07, 2022, 10:40:10 AM »
Short and sweet.
Norge refused to start in Millau Camping ground.
The yellow fuse blows when key is on.


Bike cranks, red triangle and SERVICE light on.
Anyone know what fuse this covers ?
Iíll look in the on line manual .

Online Huzo

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2022, 10:50:13 AM »
Ok.
Fuel pump/coils/injectors
Because itís blowing the fuse, I canít even crank it and check for spark, fuel swirl or injector delivery.

Offline PJPR01

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2022, 11:11:07 AM »
Have you tried swapping the 20 with a 30 and see if it does the same thing?  I presume you have some spare fuses?
Paul R
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Offline berniebee

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2022, 11:26:04 AM »
Crap, my sympathies on this happening.

I don't know if this is possible or easy on a Norge or what tools you have, but:  If a visual check for burnt or melted connectors and components (or bare wire touching frame.) doesn't point to a suspect,  I would disconnect all systems associated with that fuse, then turn on the ignition and connect one at a time until a new fuse blows. You might need a few spare fuses to narrow it down.  My guess of what's most likely: fuel pump. Pump motor failure or blockage causing abnormally high current draw. If it's the pump, it might run for a while with a new fuse. Or not.

Long shot: Maybe vent on gas cap not working, causing a vacuum to form in gas tank? Remove it while listening for the whoosh of air. 


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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2022, 11:26:04 AM »

Offline fotoguzzi

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2022, 11:50:08 AM »
Disconnect the battery for a few minutes then try?
MINNEAPOLIS, MN

Online Huzo

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2022, 12:21:18 PM »
Have you tried swapping the 20 with a 30 and see if it does the same thing?  I presume you have some spare fuses?
I would do that, but even if it doesnít blow the 30, it still doesnít point to the issue.

Online Huzo

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2022, 12:22:13 PM »
Crap, my sympathies on this happening.

I don't know if this is possible or easy on a Norge or what tools you have, but:  If a visual check for burnt or melted connectors and components (or bare wire touching frame.) doesn't point to a suspect,  I would disconnect all systems associated with that fuse, then turn on the ignition and connect one at a time until a new fuse blows. You might need a few spare fuses to narrow it down.  My guess of what's most likely: fuel pump. Pump motor failure or blockage causing abnormally high current draw. If it's the pump, it might run for a while with a new fuse. Or not.

Long shot: Maybe vent on gas cap not working, causing a vacuum to form in gas tank? Remove it while listening for the whoosh of air.
That might be a good place to start.
Thereís a bike shop in town, Iíll see if I can get it into there.

Offline bobrebos1

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2022, 12:34:27 PM »
Best of luck to you.  It stinks breaking down!
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Online Huzo

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2022, 01:18:29 PM »
Best of luck to you.  It stinks breaking down!
Yes.
It could have been in a better place, but also could have been a HELL OF A LOT WORSEÖ.!
Still a bugger though.

Offline PJPR01

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2022, 01:27:32 PM »
I would do that, but even if it doesnít blow the 30, it still doesnít point to the issue.

I'm working up to a more complicated solution...was starting with a simple first step to see if that would at least allow you to start the bike, and then possibly ride it to a shop.

Did you buy any chance bring your laptop and Lonelec cables with you to plug in Guzzidiag?
Paul R
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Online Huzo

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2022, 01:32:33 PM »
I'm working up to a more complicated solution...was starting with a simple first step to see if that would at least allow you to start the bike, and then possibly ride it to a shop.

Even if I managed to start it, if it stopped half way to the shop, then Iíd be stuck in the city on a Saturday afternoon.
At the moment Iím in a camping park.

Offline lucian

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2022, 03:21:55 PM »
Try  unplugging the fuel pump elec. connector , if fuse holds when key goes on you've found the short. Sound like a possible fuel pump problem. Maybe just a shorted wire and not a bad pump.  :popcorn:

Online Frenchfrog

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2022, 03:46:26 PM »
Just sent you a PM. I know just the man who would be delighted to help if he's not on the golf course :grin:
You will be in the best hands this side of Bungadore

Online Huzo

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2022, 03:51:31 PM »
Just sent you a PM. I know just the man who would be delighted to help if he's not on the golf course :grin:
You will be in the best hands this side of Bungadore
Iíll call in the morning Chris.

Online Huzo

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2022, 03:57:38 PM »
Try  unplugging the fuel pump elec. connector , if fuse holds when key goes on you've found the short. Sound like a possible fuel pump problem. Maybe just a shorted wire and not a bad pump.  :popcorn:
Berniebee is on the same track Lucian. Thatís the route Iíll go, but thanks to all that have taken an interest.

Online Huzo

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2022, 06:54:59 PM »


Did you buy any chance bring your laptop and Lonelec cables with you to plug in Guzzidiag?
Nah mateÖ

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2022, 07:17:32 PM »

 Huzo,  You have the good Karma force working for you.....
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Offline LowRyter

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2022, 09:21:23 PM »
Similar thing with my Greenie, fuel pump. Kept blowing bigger fuses and would go a few miles.  I thought a new filter might fix it, didn't... needed a fuel pump.  I'm not the mechanical person here as you know.  Good luck.
John L 
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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2022, 10:52:40 PM »
Trouble with the fuel pump theory, is that the fuse doesnít blow until you touch the starter..(I think)
The pump is swirling from when you turn the key onÖ(supposedly).
But Iíll check that when I get up. I have to get a collection of 20 A ones first.

Offline auzziguzzi

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2022, 11:53:12 PM »
For what itís worrh, my 2006 red Norge exhibited the same symptoms but intermittently. 

Turned out to be an uninsulated spade terminal feeding one of the four headlight bulbs.  The terminal floated around, occasionally touching the earthed headlight shell thus blowing the main fuse.

The Norge headlight only comes on as the engine starts.  That may explain why the fuse blows as you touch the starter.

If your Norge has the same fault as mine, it will blow the fuse on high beam but not low beam.  Or vice versa. 

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Offline tris

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2022, 11:57:56 PM »
Trouble with the fuel pump theory, is that the fuse doesnít blow until you touch the starter..(I think)
The pump is swirling from when you turn the key onÖ(supposedly).
But Iíll check that when I get up. I have to get a collection of 20 A ones first.

If that's correct,  will it bump start  ie leave the starter alone
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Offline John A

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2022, 12:05:54 AM »
For what itís worrh, my 2006 red Norge exhibited the same symptoms but intermittently. 

Turned out to be an uninsulated spade terminal feeding one of the four headlight bulbs.  The terminal floated around, occasionally touching the earthed headlight shell thus blowing the main fuse.

The Norge headlight only comes on as the engine starts.  That may explain why the fuse blows as you touch the starter.

If your Norge has the same fault as mine, it will blow the fuse on high beam but not low beam.  Or vice versa.








^^^^ this, check for a melted ground on the taililte socket as well.
John
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Online Huzo

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2022, 12:21:46 AM »






^^^^ this, check for a melted ground on the taililte socket as well
The fuse that blows only protects the coils, injectors and fuel pump.

Offline reidy

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2022, 12:22:13 AM »
Huzo

I had a look at the circuit diagram. As you have discovered it appears that fuse supplies power to the fuel pump, injectors and coils (5 plugs).

As it does not blow immediately and only when you touch the starter it is unlikely to be the fuel pump as it normally pressurizes when you first turn on the key. 

The logic I am using is either an injector or coil is drawing two much current. The circuit appears to work by that fuse supplying 12 volts and the ECU providing the earth as required.

Provided you have some spare fuses I would put in a fuse and disconnect the injector and coil plugs. The bike should then crank over but not start and not blow the fuse. If it does the fuel pump is looking likely.

I would then connect the Left or Right injector and Coil plug. The bike should then crank over and hopefully start on one cylinder. If it blows the fuse try the other side. If you can isolate a side then plug in either the injector or coil for the faulty side.

Once you have found the component it is a replace job I would expect.
This is a start

Steve




« Last Edit: October 08, 2022, 12:22:56 AM by reidy »

Online Huzo

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2022, 12:22:53 AM »
Just for informationís sakeÖ






Online Huzo

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2022, 12:25:22 AM »
#27 & #31 point to injector circuit issue.

Is the ďAĒ column for active and the ďOĒ for stored faults ?

Offline reidy

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2022, 12:41:19 AM »
Looking at the fault codes and wire diagram it would appear that the injectors are the last connection on the power wire.
All of the fault codes show you are on the right track.

A quick google search shows the x as no or incorrect signal.

A broken wire either from pin 37 or 28 of the black ecu connector that is now shorted to ground would most likely show up this fault.
 
Now I am going to take a stab here, as far as I can tell the ECU is located under the front of the tank. Have you got a tank bag on the bike?
Have you moved anything near the front of the tank since you pulled into the camp ground?
If you have it may have interfered with the ecu plug/wires. Faults often don't happen without a cause.

Steve   

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2022, 01:53:17 AM »
If that's correct,  will it bump start  ie leave the starter alone
Thatís true Tris, but I canít test that theory because I might end up at the bottom of a hill..!

Online Huzo

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2022, 01:55:33 AM »
Looking at the fault codes and wire diagram it would appear that the injectors are the last connection on the power wire.
All of the fault codes show you are on the right track.

A quick google search shows the x as no or incorrect signal.

A broken wire either from pin 37 or 28 of the black ecu connector that is now shorted to ground would most likely show up this fault.
 
Now I am going to take a stab here, as far as I can tell the ECU is located under the front of the tank. Have you got a tank bag on the bike?
Have you moved anything near the front of the tank since you pulled into the camp ground?
If you have it may have interfered with the ecu plug/wires. Faults often don't happen without a cause.

Steve
The bike was perfect.
I turned it off to answer a question and from then on it did this.

Online Huzo

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Re: Europe trip trouble
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2022, 02:57:02 AM »
Did a couple of things and this happenedÖ https://youtu.be/ijK8IAQgvIc
Iíll elaborate later, thanks to one and all.
Peter.

 


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