Author Topic: My 2021 V7 850 stone Guzzi hates me……  (Read 3051 times)

Offline greer

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Re: My 2021 V7 850 stone Guzzi hates me……
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2022, 05:10:41 AM »
 :angry:

Sarah
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Offline photorich65

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Re: My 2021 V7 850 stone Guzzi hates me……
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2022, 12:30:16 PM »
Wow ! what a frustrating sequence of events.  I'd quickly have fallen out of love with such a problematic bike, kudos for so much patience.

On my Stornello I'd plugged and rerouted so many vent and emission tubes I finally pulled the tank and airbox in an effort to mentally map and reroute potential problem spots.  From memory the main places that could suck air into the engine are an inlet in the top of the "Y" piece that connects the throttle body to the cylinder heads, the head vents on the valve covers that relieve crankcase pressure, and the inlet into the back of the oil pan down by the kickstand. 

Maybe rig up a temp gas feed and clamp these hoses sequentially, hoping to find one that evens out the idle.  Certainly sounds like a vacuum leak - mine did the very same thing when I started it without the airbox.

This is all based on my V7II, the 850 may differ.

Good luck !  I'm still working towards a decent power curve without the flat spot.  Can tell once these things are dialed they're a ton of fun.

Rich 

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Re: My 2021 V7 850 stone Guzzi hates me……
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2022, 04:09:04 PM »
Wow ! what a frustrating sequence of events.  I'd quickly have fallen out of love with such a problematic bike, kudos for so much patience.

On my Stornello I'd plugged and rerouted so many vent and emission tubes I finally pulled the tank and airbox in an effort to mentally map and reroute potential problem spots.  From memory the main places that could suck air into the engine are an inlet in the top of the "Y" piece that connects the throttle body to the cylinder heads, the head vents on the valve covers that relieve crankcase pressure, and the inlet into the back of the oil pan down by the kickstand. 

Maybe rig up a temp gas feed and clamp these hoses sequentially, hoping to find one that evens out the idle.  Certainly sounds like a vacuum leak - mine did the very same thing when I started it without the airbox.

This is all based on my V7II, the 850 may differ.

Good luck !  I'm still working towards a decent power curve without the flat spot.  Can tell once these things are dialed they're a ton of fun.

Rich

You describe why I chose to leave the evap system in place on my Stornello. Have you tried a Beetle map on your Stornello? His map turns that flat spot into a bump in torque/power. First time I took it out with the new map, I pulled the front wheel up for a second. I had gotten use to that flat spot in the 3-3.5K range, and gave it a bit more throttle. When I did this after the re-map, the flat spot all but went away.  I occasionally have a cold start surge issue, but only when the temps are in the 40-50's. 
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Offline Beowulf

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Re: My 2021 V7 850 stone Guzzi hates me……
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2022, 04:46:43 PM »
Good suggestions I’m hoping to get time to diagnose but with work it’s difficult. I too will vouch for the amazing transformation a beetle map produced for my V7 ii.

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Re: My 2021 V7 850 stone Guzzi hates me……
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2022, 04:46:43 PM »

Offline photorich65

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Re: My 2021 V7 850 stone Guzzi hates me……
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2022, 04:53:13 PM »
You describe why I chose to leave the evap system in place on my Stornello. Have you tried a Beetle map on your Stornello? His map turns that flat spot into a bump in torque/power. First time I took it out with the new map, I pulled the front wheel up for a second. I had gotten use to that flat spot in the 3-3.5K range, and gave it a bit more throttle. When I did this after the re-map, the flat spot all but went away.  I occasionally have a cold start surge issue, but only when the temps are in the 40-50's.

I just ordered it this morning !  fingers crossed it's the magic bullet... or at least an enchanted pellet.

Rich

Online Kev m

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Re: My 2021 V7 850 stone Guzzi hates me……
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2022, 03:45:41 AM »
You describe why I chose to leave the evap system in place on my Stornello. Have you tried a Beetle map on your Stornello? His map turns that flat spot into a bump in torque/power. First time I took it out with the new map, I pulled the front wheel up for a second. I had gotten use to that flat spot in the 3-3.5K range, and gave it a bit more throttle. When I did this after the re-map, the flat spot all but went away.  I occasionally have a cold start surge issue, but only when the temps are in the 40-50's.
2 things

* IIRC the vent system plumbing (mostly to from airbox) VARIES on MkI, II, and III models with the Stornello possibly bring different from the rest.

* Though clamping off EVAP vent inlets to the throttle body can be fine, you don't want to clamp off crankcase outlets (like the valve cover vents) unless you want to cause gasket leaks. Crankcase ventilation exists so the pressure pulses caused by piston motion don't blow out gaskets. And the return line to the oil pan is simply to get some of that oil back to the pan from the airbox. It's not got any way to effect idle

As for the idle problem itself sure check for vacuum leaks on the intake tract but that's the only place that can effect it. If you can't find a mechanical problem with the intake or cables, then it's time to think electronic. Look at sensor input and idle air control valve condition/operation.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2022, 07:03:24 AM by Kev m »
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Offline Brand X

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Re: My 2021 V7 850 stone Guzzi hates me……
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2022, 06:07:30 AM »
First time I took it out with the new map, I pulled the front wheel up for a second.

Personally, I would be even more impressed  if it had enough power to pull your hat off your head.. :evil: (any V-7) My map is good, and not changing a thing.. Leaving the emissions alone on this one..Zero benefit over then a bit of weight, and or the looks of it gone..
« Last Edit: January 25, 2022, 06:08:29 AM by Brand X »

Online bad Chad

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Re: My 2021 V7 850 stone Guzzi hates me……
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2022, 06:21:23 AM »
Come on fellas, no map, no matter how good is going to make a Heron head small block pull wheelies, even little ones!   One can pull a wheelie on one if they know the technique, but yo aren’t going to raise the front tire off the ground because you installed a new map.  :grin:
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Offline Brand X

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Re: My 2021 V7 850 stone Guzzi hates me……
« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2022, 06:37:52 AM »
Come on fellas, no map, no matter how good is going to make a Heron head small block pull wheelies, even little ones!   One can pull a wheelie on one if they know the technique, but yo aren’t going to raise the front tire off the ground because you installed a new map.  :grin:

Most big blocks too. No matter what head is on them.  :grin:

Offline Beowulf

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Re: My 2021 V7 850 stone Guzzi hates me……
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2022, 06:56:05 AM »
Quote from: bad Chad link=topic=113801.msg1800625 :evil:#msg1800625 date=1643113283
Come on fellas, no map, no matter how good is going to make a Heron head small block pull wheelies, even little ones!   One can pull a wheelie on one if they know the technique, but yo aren’t going to raise the front tire off the ground because you installed a new map.  :grin:


Don’t say that too loud. My bike is taking enough things personally lately. You might offend it even though it doesn’t have a beetle map currently . :evil:

I was wondering did anyone have their V7 850 need a reflash? None of this occurred till after that it. I know it doesn’t account for everything but I just want to confirm that there is actually a reflash for this bike and the dealer isn’t messing up again.

Offline photorich65

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Re: My 2021 V7 850 stone Guzzi hates me……
« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2022, 09:34:53 AM »
2 things

* IIRC the vent system plumbing (mostly to from airbox) VARIES on MkI, II, and III models with the Stornello possibly bring different from the rest.

* Though clamping off EVAP vent inlets to the throttle body can be fine, you don't want to clamp off crankcase outlets (like the valve cover vents) unless you want to cause gasket leaks. Crankcase ventilation exists so the pressure pulses caused by piston motion don't blow out gaskets. And the return line to the oil pan is simply to get some of that oil back to the pan from the airbox. It's not got any way to effect idle

As for the idle problem itself sure check for vacuum leaks on the intake tract but that's the only place that can effect it. If you can't find a mechanical problem with the intake or cables, then it's time to think electronic. Look at sensor input and idle air control valve condition/operation.

I should've made it clear the clamping of hoses a brief endeavor, only to determine what affects the idle. 
« Last Edit: January 25, 2022, 09:39:51 AM by photorich65 »

Online Kev m

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Re: My 2021 V7 850 stone Guzzi hates me……
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2022, 09:53:40 AM »
I should've made it clear the clamping of hoses a brief endeavor, only to determine what affects the idle.

No, I picked that up, but I still don't think it's worth it. Breather really shouldn't effect idle. Not like that.

Nor oil drainback.

Gotta be something else.

My money is on the IACV mechanically or electrically (if no other mechanical cause is found).

EDIT - You should look at the wiring diagram to see if there is any commonality between the neutral circuit, IACV circuit or other circuits that might have been touched during diagnostics or service. Like even a common ground or sub-harness connector or the like.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2022, 11:18:48 AM by Kev m »
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Offline Sye

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Re: My 2021 V7 850 stone Guzzi hates me……
« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2022, 11:14:58 AM »
Just because the throttle cable closes at the grip doesn't mean it is at the throttle bodies. Check by hand that they close fully and if not find the cause. Start with simple stuff first as that's what it usually is.

Good luck🤞

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Re: My 2021 V7 850 stone Guzzi hates me……
« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2022, 01:06:34 PM »
Just because the throttle cable closes at the grip doesn't mean it is at the throttle bodies. Check by hand that they close fully and if not find the cause. Start with simple stuff first as that's what it usually is.

Good luck🤞
Disconnect the throttle cable from the quadrant.
At that point you’ll be able to check that the quadrant is snapping shut and the cable is free.
Take off the air inlet tract and visible see if the butterfly is closing.

Online Kev m

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Re: My 2021 V7 850 stone Guzzi hates me……
« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2022, 04:28:09 PM »

Don’t say that too loud. My bike is taking enough things personally lately. You might offend it even though it doesn’t have a beetle map currently . :evil:

I was wondering did anyone have their V7 850 need a reflash? None of this occurred till after that it. I know it doesn’t account for everything but I just want to confirm that there is actually a reflash for this bike and the dealer isn’t messing up again.

A little bird told me to make sure you check your airbox. If the shop overfilled it with oil then:

"If it's pumped a load into the airbox it may well of fouled the air pressure sensor in the MUIG-3. When that happens all sorts of weird idling problems can occur."

Which makes a lot of sense.

Easy enough to check as well.

Kev
« Last Edit: January 25, 2022, 04:28:53 PM by Kev m »
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Online Bulldog9

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Re: My 2021 V7 850 stone Guzzi hates me……
« Reply #45 on: January 25, 2022, 06:48:20 PM »
Come on fellas, no map, no matter how good is going to make a Heron head small block pull wheelies, even little ones!   One can pull a wheelie on one if they know the technique, but yo aren’t going to raise the front tire off the ground because you installed a new map.  :grin:

Your bad Chad.... Well wrong at least. It happened....... "There I was................" lol

Seriously though, it did, but believe what you want.  More important point is that the Beetle Map on the Stornello turned the 'flat spot' at 3000 +/- into a very nice bump of power.
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Online bad Chad

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Re: My 2021 V7 850 stone Guzzi hates me……
« Reply #46 on: January 25, 2022, 07:50:46 PM »
If you say so.  I suppose some sort of perfect storm came together and made it possible.

More likely you experienced full or close to full fork extension, which is impressive in of itself.
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Offline Beowulf

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Re: My 2021 V7 850 stone Guzzi hates me……
« Reply #47 on: January 25, 2022, 09:09:05 PM »
So I’m going to check out the suggestions when I get a breather from work this weekend. Been quite a week. Just an update AF1 contacted me again offering another helpful suggestion and is checking into getting the bike up to Austin. At any rate I’m done with dealer here, they seem nice but I’m not very confident in their abilities.

So hopefully Af1 finds a way to transport it and if not I’ll bring up in a week or so if I can’t find it in the next couple of days. I will update with further developments.

Online sdcr

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Re: My 2021 V7 850 stone Guzzi hates me……
« Reply #48 on: January 26, 2022, 06:03:05 AM »

Not trying to hijack your thread, and I do have empathy regarding this situation. But, your experience is a reminder of the frustrating situation, that buyers of new MG bikes face. Either a complete lack of vibrant, dedicated dealers nearby, except for a basic retail store, that may try to be helpful, but usually don’t instill confidence. I’m in the Philly metro area,  and there are just two Moto Guzzi dealers that I would consider a purchase from, with the closest in Connecticut, about 2 hundred miles north.

 Anyway, back to your situation, and I do hope that between the good folks here, and AF1, you can get that resolved. The 850 V7 is a sweet machine.

So I’m going to check out the suggestions when I get a breather from work this weekend. Been quite a week. Just an update AF1 contacted me again offering another helpful suggestion and is checking into getting the bike up to Austin. At any rate I’m done with dealer here, they seem nice but I’m not very confident in their abilities.

So hopefully Af1 finds a way to transport it and if not I’ll bring up in a week or so if I can’t find it in the next couple of days. I will update with further developments.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2022, 06:04:32 AM by sdcr »
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Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: My 2021 V7 850 stone Guzzi hates me……
« Reply #49 on: January 26, 2022, 08:45:37 AM »
If the cables are intact and you roll back the throttle how can the bike over-rev?
Has it ever backfired?
My V7III backfired one day and blew the throttle body apart, this wasn't obvious.
When I finally got it to start it would rev up (air leaking in) then idle for a while (as throttle body sucked together)
It was only a year into its warrantee so I dropped it off at the dealership, they discovered the air leak,
I assume they fixed it in 5 minutes with a screwdriver.
I felt like a fool lol.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2022, 08:50:49 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline Beowulf

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Re: My 2021 V7 850 stone Guzzi hates me……
« Reply #50 on: January 28, 2022, 11:58:11 AM »
I pulled the tank off completely from the Guzzi. Can someone explain this to me?


 

I’m checking everything I can. I’d just like to say Af1 is coming to pick the bike up tomorrow it looks like. I’m impressed just want to say the customer service is outstanding.

The houston dealer it seems left this with one of the breather hoses to the tank detached. It seems other things are missing screws but I can’t verify yet.


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Offline greer

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Re: My 2021 V7 850 stone Guzzi hates me……
« Reply #51 on: January 29, 2022, 06:47:12 AM »
Hope AF1 comes thru today, if their service dept is anything like their online retail shop you're in the best of hands. 

Sarah
Sarah '21 V7 Special, '17 XT250, '17 V9 Roamer sold August 2021, '16 V7 II Stone sold September 2021, '08 Nevada Classic sold August 2020 
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Offline Beowulf

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Re: My 2021 V7 850 stone Guzzi hates me……
« Reply #52 on: January 29, 2022, 08:03:59 PM »
Met Af1 delivery driver in Houston today. They picked up the bike and promptly emailed when the delivery driver got to Austin with it. If your gonna buy a Guzzi or have it worked on go to MPH or have Af1 work on it if your in the Houston area.

Will update as I find out more. Big thank you to DaveDel as he facilitated a trailer and a lot of his time to help me out today to get the bike to Houston. I can already tell with Af1 being so prompt to communicate this Gonna be much better.

Offline cookiemech

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Re: My 2021 V7 850 stone Guzzi hates me……
« Reply #53 on: January 30, 2022, 05:55:25 AM »
I only know AF1 Racing by purchasing (LOTS of) Ural parts from them. Their customer service is outstanding and they communicate very well. The ONE time (out of many) there was a minor problem with an order, they went out of their way to expedite the shipping of the replacement part.

If this attitude is found throughout their organization, you are in good hands.

 

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