Author Topic: question:alternator rotor bolt (Read 6163 times)

nc43bsa · « **Reply #30 on:** May 28, 2019, 08:32:00 PM »

Just don't do as I have (more times than I'll admit to) and leave the wrench in the alternator bolt when you crank the engine.

Roy gardner · « **Reply #31 on:** June 01, 2019, 03:48:35 PM »

Quote from: wirespokes on May 28, 2019, 12:42:09 PM

That's what I figured. So there's no pressure to get it out - it's not like you can't ride it in the meantime.

It's common knowledge to turn the engine using that bolt, but I never thought it was a good idea. I definitely wouldn't without the spark plugs removed, and by the time you've done that, one side's valves could already be adjusted via rotating the rear wheel.

Possibly the "common knowledge" came from the BMW manuals. My R90S factory propaganda recommended it. However, BMW probably purchased good quality hard bolts, I have experienced some Guzzi alternator bolts made of something about as hard as cheddar cheese.

750S3 · « **Reply #32 on:** July 15, 2019, 04:00:00 PM »

Managed to get the bolt out and replaced it.
It’s all good. Here at Peggy’s Cove, Nova Scoria

nc43bsa · « **Reply #33 on:** July 15, 2019, 04:28:13 PM »

Which removal method ultimately worked?

(for future reference)

Wildguzzi.com · « **Reply #33 on:** July 15, 2019, 04:28:13 PM »

Cdn850T5NT · « **Reply #34 on:** July 15, 2019, 04:33:51 PM »

Quote from: Groover on May 28, 2019, 08:58:24 AM

If all fails, here is a the tool: I think you can get it other places too, but that's what it looks like. https://www.ebay.com/i/382756854837?chn=ps

This is a tool for alternator removal. The Seller indicates that the tool is made of stainless steel (does not specify the grade, type)...

Isn't stainless steel a lot softer than the hardened steel required to pop the rotor off the taper? I would think that this tool is NOT what you want.

My 850T5 came with a Moto Guzzi-supplied tool. I am wondering if the quality (and specifically the hardness) is up to the job? Has anyone used the Guzzi tool?

jwinwi · « **Reply #35 on:** July 15, 2019, 05:51:34 PM »

Quote from: 750S3 on July 15, 2019, 04:00:00 PM

Managed to get the bolt out and replaced it.
It’s all good. Here at Peggy’s Cove, Nova Scoria

One of the best feelings ever. Congratulations!

Cdn850T5NT · « **Reply #36 on:** July 15, 2019, 10:33:05 PM »

Quote from: Cdn850T5NT on July 15, 2019, 04:33:51 PM

This is a tool for alternator removal. The Seller indicates that the tool is made of stainless steel (does not specify the grade, type)...

Isn't stainless steel a lot softer than the hardened steel required to pop the rotor off the taper? I would think that this tool is NOT what you want.

My 850T5 came with a Moto Guzzi-supplied tool. I am wondering if the quality (and specifically the hardness) is up to the job? Has anyone used the Guzzi tool?

Any opinions or thoughts?

Matt Story · « **Reply #37 on:** July 15, 2019, 11:11:15 PM »

Stainless is typically softer than steel alloys. Maybe there are some exotic alloys that aren't. That product looks like a common bolt that has been turned down. That said, I have bought a number of things from the seller BSANUT and have never been disappointed. What I did for my rotor removal tool was find a long 1/4-20 alloy SHCS (grade 8 or better) and chop off the head so the rod is 1/4 x 2" lg. This is a nice clearance diameter to slip it into the crank thread. Then use an M8 bolt threaded into the rotor to push against it - not necessarily the rotor bolt.

Cdn850T5NT · « **Reply #38 on:** July 15, 2019, 11:21:14 PM »

Many thanks; that's helpful. Also, your comment on not necessarily using the alternator bolt (i.e. don't over-use it... use it only for its intended purpose) - that likely has merit :). Again, thanks.

My '85 850T5 only has about 4,500 miles on it. The alternator has never been off the crankshaft taper. I need to liberate it, to set the non-automatic timing chain tensioner (or at least to check it). Plus, I worry about things being in close contact for THAT long of a period of time. Having said this, it has lived in a 70 degree F dry basement all of its life.

Incidentally, apparently you are supposed to bring the removal bolt to some reasonably-high torque value, and then are supposed to rap the nose of the rotor with a rawhide-faced mallet or something that "gives" a 'wee bit (or does not damage the rotor-nose). The percussion is supposed to remove the rotor with a snap. Just trying to apply torque to the centre bolt will not be effective, and risks stripping either the crank female threads, the bolt threads, or the bolt head (like the OP must have done, here).

Matt Story · « **Reply #39 on:** July 15, 2019, 11:25:50 PM »

If you're going into look at the timing chain tensioner, you really should replace it with a Valtek style. They are cheap and work well.

http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=347

nc43bsa · « **Reply #40 on:** July 16, 2019, 12:31:02 AM »

Quote from: Cdn850T5NT on July 15, 2019, 11:21:14 PM

Incidentally, apparently you are supposed to bring the removal bolt to some reasonably-high torque value, and then are supposed to rap the nose of the rotor with a rawhide-faced mallet or something that "gives" a 'wee bit (or does not damage the rotor-nose). The percussion is supposed to remove the rotor with a snap. Just trying to apply torque to the centre bolt will not be effective, and risks stripping either the crank female threads, the bolt threads, or the bolt head (like the OP must have done, here).

I was instructed to rap the BOLT with a hammer after putting it under sufficient torque.

And to have a hand nearby to catch the rotor when it pops off.

Cdn850T5NT · « **Reply #41 on:** July 16, 2019, 12:37:05 AM »

Ah, so you're saying it is proud-of-flush with the rotor. Ah ha. Then the notion of using a good quality but expendable bolt - rather than the original allen head bolt - doubly has merit.

In answer re the automatic timing chain tensioner - I would prefer to NOT go there (as I believe it means removing the timing chain + sprockets to gain access and make the swap)??? NP... except for the red loctite.... Ugly. I could be wrong, here. But I would prefer to NOT have to heat the hell out of the sprockets.

Matt Story · « **Reply #42 on:** July 16, 2019, 06:33:31 AM »

I believe the tensioner can be upgraded without removing the chain. Haven't done that. Mine was all apart anyway. Don't know about the red loctite. Someone else here has done it I'm sure and can advise.

canuck750 · « **Reply #43 on:** July 16, 2019, 09:00:20 PM »

This 750 S3 has the upgrade cam chain tensioner installed

You might be able to replace the cam chain and tensioner without removing the motor but I think it would not be worth the restricted space leaving the motor in the frame.

fotoguzzi · « **Reply #44 on:** July 16, 2019, 09:26:17 PM »

Removing the timing chain is easy and if the nuts have red lock tight I doubt it came from the factory that way.

750S3 · « **Reply #45 on:** July 17, 2019, 07:06:08 AM »

Thanks for all the help and tips. Got the bolt out with a combination of Chuck’s method and a torx + impact driver

Cdn850T5NT · « **Reply #46 on:** July 17, 2019, 09:54:24 PM »

Thank you All, for your info re the timing chain and the tensioner. I did not consider the whole matter of whether the timing chest cover would come off (at all) with the engine remaining in the frame

.

The implication of this, is that if a person retains the manually-set timing chain tensioner (and intends to readjust it at interval to account for wear) then it MAY BE that you simply cannot do this with engine-in-frame - and then it REALLY IS compelling to have the automatic tensioner in place, once and for all.

Comments, please, re access to solely adjust the manual chain tensioner, engine-in-frame (please)?

I also attach a couple of photos that would seem to indicate that the timing chain / sprockets have to come off, in order to put the automatic tensioner in place (more significantly - in order to REMOVE the manual one, it seems). Commments?

John A · « **Reply #47 on:** July 17, 2019, 10:15:31 PM »

Stainless steel comes in many different grades and saying stainless is softer than steel is not a correct statement, steel comes in many different grades as well.

Cdn850T5NT · « **Reply #48 on:** July 17, 2019, 10:42:26 PM »

Sorry, I was thinking specifically austenitic stainless steels. like type 304, 304L, 316, 316L Sorry, not the correct ASTM (/ AISI?) names. And this of course, then, is only a small bit of the range of stainless steels.

Right you are...

Cdn850T5NT · « **Reply #49 on:** July 18, 2019, 07:19:56 PM »

Hey, just to re-ask the question: for a T5, and SPII, a Lemans IV or V, a Strada, an SPIII, or a MilleGT - all the same (or very close to the same Tonti frame, square-barrel big-block) - can a person take the timing chest cover off while the engine is still in the frame? I am seeking to adjust the manually-adjustable timing chain (slack-side ?? I think) tensioner.

nc43bsa · « **Reply #50 on:** July 18, 2019, 07:38:57 PM »

I installed the Valtek in my MilleGT in the frame.

I supported the engine with a few blocks of wood and removed the long bolt.

Cdn850T5NT · « **Reply #51 on:** July 19, 2019, 09:48:53 AM »

Hey nc43bsa and/or Others - did any of you find Loctite on any of the sprockets? And I should confirm: you do need to remove chain/sprockets to install the Valtek, correct?Thks, All, BTW.

TOMB · « **Reply #52 on:** July 19, 2019, 10:22:48 AM »

Cdn850T5NT

Tensioner installed with engine in the frame.

If you insist on removing the tensioner in one piece then you may need to remove the sprockets.

If your going to replace the chain then cut the chain off , remove the tensioner .

Replace the chain with one with a master link. Problem solved.

This was done on my convert 30,000 miles ago .NO ISSUES .

Im sure that others have done it this way .

TOMB

Cdn850T5NT · « **Reply #53 on:** July 19, 2019, 11:57:26 AM »

Now that's a good thought; I had not considered that.

Thx

Tom H · « **Reply #54 on:** July 19, 2019, 12:23:22 PM »

When I changed the tensioner in my EVT, I was a bit nervous about pulling all the gears and not getting every thing back right. I read up on how to do it by searching this board and asking.

One thing I did seemed to make things a bit easier. I turned the crank until the timing marks were lined up like they should be. Then I took a black marker and put a mark on a tooth of each gear as well as a corresponding mark on the chain. Doing this made it so that I did not have to guess how many links between the gears when I put it back together. If your replacing the chain as well, it may still work if you transfer the marks to the new chain.

You "CAN" change the tensioner without pulling the gears. After reading up on how to do it, I felt it was easier/safer to just pull the gears.

One last tip, drain the oil before you pull the front cover.

Good luck,
Tom

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #55 on:** July 19, 2019, 02:26:43 PM »

Quote from: 750S3 on July 17, 2019, 07:06:08 AM

Thanks for all the help and tips. Got the bolt out with a combination of Chuck’s method and a torx + impact driver

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Author Topic: question:alternator rotor bolt (Read 6163 times)

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jwinwi

canuck750