Author Topic: Bacon Slicer project  (Read 93781 times)

canuck750

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #180 on: November 27, 2017, 10:31:48 AM »
Are you able to find new bearings in the USA?

I am following with keen interest in the hopes that one day I can fond one of these to tackle.

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #181 on: November 27, 2017, 12:21:31 PM »
The two large bearings on both ends of the transmission primary shaft will be an issue.  If they feel good, leave them alone.  The bearings are 13mm width.  They are no longer produced by anyone in the world.  There is a guy in Germany who takes 15mm wide bearings and does a double side re-grind to bring the width down to 13mm.  http://www.peters-bearing.de/index.php  Very expensive detailed and time consuming work to be accurate.  Other bearings are nominal and available.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #182 on: November 28, 2017, 11:04:37 PM »
Are you able to find new bearings in the USA?

What Patrick says - though didn't know about Peters Bearings.  Can get trans primary bearings from Italy for 90 Euro but they may have originally been modified by Peters.  (or 220E for all but the conrod rollers)  The drive side 13mm bearing seems OK, but the clutch bearing is toast.

Went to an online bearing house and thought I was ordering from the USA, but when the payment went through it was to France!  :rolleyes:  Oh well, back when I was riding bicycles a lot the joke was that it was good luck to have a French part on your bike - something to do about the Tour de France.   :wink:

Most bearings have been standard size, but the front wheel bearings, and the generator drive end bearing (and trans Mainshaft bearings) are not.

Remove crank oilway plug and clean out.

   

1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #183 on: November 28, 2017, 11:13:42 PM »
Carlo suggested cleaning parts with Simple Green and it works great!

           



1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Wildguzzi.com

Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #183 on: November 28, 2017, 11:13:42 PM »

oldbike54

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #184 on: November 28, 2017, 11:18:38 PM »
 What a great thread  :bow: Lovely bike  :thumb:

 Dusty

 

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #185 on: November 28, 2017, 11:54:30 PM »
What a great thread  :bow: Lovely bike  :thumb:

 Dusty

Thank you Dusty.  It's a fun project but I'm too impatient and too cheap!  :tongue:  Recently been shoring up the Italian economy with greenbacks.  Probably should have originally posted in projects, but I was hoping to reach as many bacon slicer owners as possible 'cause I know so little about them. 
1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

canuck750

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #186 on: November 29, 2017, 06:07:39 PM »
Thanks for the updates, please keep them coming!

oldbike54

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #187 on: November 29, 2017, 06:14:39 PM »
Thank you Dusty.  It's a fun project but I'm too impatient and too cheap!  :tongue:  Recently been shoring up the Italian economy with greenbacks.  Probably should have originally posted in projects, but I was hoping to reach as many bacon slicer owners as possible 'cause I know so little about them.

 We can move it later , but right now I agree with your idea .

 Dusty

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #188 on: November 29, 2017, 07:39:09 PM »
We can move it later , but right now I agree with your idea .

 Dusty

true. You kinda have to blow the dust off the completed project area once in a while.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline Rhodan

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #189 on: December 02, 2017, 09:20:44 AM »
I wanted to add a "thank you" for posting it here.  I normally only pop in for a few minutes at a time and this thread is one I always look for.  I've been having a ton of vicarious fun watching it come back to life and the inventive lathe (and other) work it's taken.

I probably wouldn't have seen it in the other section though I should pop in there more often.  I love these threads.

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #190 on: December 04, 2017, 10:35:17 PM »
Thanks for the support and comments!  Glad there is  still interest.  Hopefully it helps people in the future.

1930s technology roller cam followers.  Rollers are worn, bronze shrubbings are 0.010" + oversize.  New from Italy.
 



Drill the pin 1/3 and drive it out with a punch. 

       


Tip: check for burrs on the pin and polish with 1500 wet or dry.  (This one had bad burrs on both pins, especially at the oil holes.)  Insert the roller, bushing and pin. Back the pin on an anvil or vice and strike it with a center punch. Tip: flipping follower over after every strike will help center the pin.




Tip: install the cam followers and check the clearance between the ends of the flared pins and file so that there is at least 0.030" clearance between them.

Cam and rocker axles are supposed to be a tight fit in the cases, but had worn over time.  Insert axle in hole, back up with a maple block and use a punch around the bore to close it up.




Cam axle is badly worn.  Quote for hard chrome and grinding to size is pushing $400.  Haven't found a replacement.  I could (maybe) turn one on the lathe, but I'd have to find the right steel and have it hardened - not sure how to do that yet.  Temporarily rotate the cam axle away from the max wear and shim the end play. 




Fit all the pieces and close the cover to check play.  Much tighter than before.

   
 
1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #191 on: December 05, 2017, 07:33:27 AM »
Quote
but I'd have to find the right steel and have it hardened -

Do you have an ox/acetylene torch?
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #192 on: December 05, 2017, 07:59:51 PM »
Do you have an ox/acetylene torch?
I don't, but I have friends!  :)

Heard stories of case hardening by getting the piece red hot and dropping it in a can of carbon powder or something.  s'pose I could google this.  A local machine shop has an oven for hardening too.

1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Offline Guzzi Gal

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #193 on: December 05, 2017, 09:07:45 PM »
Do you have an ox/acetylene torch?

The best gift my husband ever gave me, other than our children, was one of these! 
:bow: Thanks for enabling my MG obsession! :bow:
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Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #194 on: December 05, 2017, 10:04:51 PM »
Great xmas present idea!   :thumb:
1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Offline Aaron D.

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #195 on: December 06, 2017, 06:16:32 AM »
Best invention ever. Seriously.

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #196 on: December 06, 2017, 07:58:37 AM »
I don't, but I have friends!  :)

Heard stories of case hardening by getting the piece red hot and dropping it in a can of carbon powder or something.  s'pose I could google this.  A local machine shop has an oven for hardening too.

If you have friends with an oven, that will of course be best. If you absolutely have to, you can get some water hardening drill rod, machine it, heat it to carrot color and drop it (vertically) in a bucket of water. It will now be too hard to use, so polish the scale off, and *very carefully* heat with the torch until it is the color of straw. At this point drop it in the water again. It will go from straw to blue very rapidly.. don't let that happen, or it will be too soft.
That is quick and dirty heat treat 101.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #197 on: December 06, 2017, 08:18:47 PM »
If you have friends with an oven, that will of course be best. If you absolutely have to, you can get some water hardening drill rod, machine it, heat it to carrot color and drop it (vertically) in a bucket of water. It will now be too hard to use, so polish the scale off, and *very carefully* heat with the torch until it is the color of straw. At this point drop it in the water again. It will go from straw to blue very rapidly.. don't let that happen, or it will be too soft.
That is quick and dirty heat treat 101.

Thanks Chuck - I would mess that up without a lot of practice!

Lots of goodies just arrived from the old country - including a solid state voltage regulator for the generator.




and a complete set of NEW helical gears for the primary (!)

   
1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #198 on: December 10, 2017, 10:05:00 PM »
While waiting for the last few bearings to arrive...

10mm OD tubing from McMaster-Carr to make a new pushrod (thanks Charlie!). Drill tube out to 8mm, trim so rod-end will seat, find socket to protect end, clamp other end in soft jaws and heat tube with torch, hit socket with hammer.  Roll test for straightness.  Because the wall is thicker than stock it weighs 1.3x the stock tube so will put on the intake valve which has a smaller diameter stem and slightly lighter.





Bought a GUZZI petcock to replace the leaking "sugar cube" type (bad gasket). It is a match for the left petcock.  A little clean up and polishing of the sealing taper.

     
 


Installed the solid stage voltage regulator.  Test on the lathe showed a steady 7.25 volts on an under-charged battery.

      
1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #199 on: December 10, 2017, 11:13:53 PM »
 :thumb:
Charlie

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #200 on: December 23, 2017, 05:50:39 PM »
Just in time for Christmas!


 



« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 06:25:56 PM by SED »
1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #201 on: January 01, 2018, 08:20:14 PM »
Still waiting on transmission bearings so decided to investigate the girder fork. This fork does not have the weird brazing repairs that the original does. 

Brits call these "girder" while the Italians call them "Parallelogramma" forks. Parallelogram better describes how they work.

Seller said "they may require straightening as the lower left side is splayed out . Some forks came that way to allow for different wheel brake dimensions".  He sent pictures that avoided the damage so was not prepared for the noodle it really is...  Why must some people try to manipulate everything to their advantage? :angry: 

   



Left side of the fork had been hit so hard that both tubes were S shaped and the leg was splayed out and pushed back. 

           



Loosen lock nuts on left side.  Unthread spindles from right side links and slide spindles out to the left (upper links were swapped side to side).  Remove recalcitrant damper nut.  Clean all parts.

               


Crash had badly bent left lower link so borrowed the hot persuader.  Parallel to 0.004" - Good enough for the girls we go out with!  :grin:

           


A little work to straighten the links and align the eyes results in square linkages.  New spindles and nuts from Valenti in Italy.
   



To remove bushings, thread the correct size tap into the bushing and drive out from the other side with a long drift.

       



JBNicholson (Modern Motorcycle Mechanics) says you can use "red heat" on girder forks so I used plenty of that, plus spring compressor, hammer on the high spots and wooden wedges on the low spots.  Girder specialist Jake Robbins says it is a lot like blacksmithing.  http://sumpmagazine.com/classicbikespecialists/girder-forks.htm

       



The result is pretty square and the spindles and axle align pretty well, but it doesn't show that the lower left leg is about 1/8" shorter than the right.  I will correct that by modifying the axle eyes.




The spindle bushings are an odd size 11mm x 14mm x 40mm and 13mm x 16mm x 40mm and the thrust washers are only 1mm thick so still looking for these parts.  Forks require 8 bushings and 6 thrust washers. May have to buy common sizes and practice with the lathe more.  :laugh:
1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #202 on: January 01, 2018, 09:59:49 PM »
Attaboy.  :smiley: Nobody said it was going to be easy.. now fire up that lathe.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #203 on: January 21, 2018, 06:43:53 PM »
While waiting for parts used Honda Randy's torch to pull the bendy 7mm studs.  Would've broken without a lot of heat!
Faced the flange gasket surface then drilled and tapped for 8mm studs. 

 


The sealing surface of the head and gasket were carboned up so probably blown. Lapped the head into the barrel with valve grinding paste.

 


Somebody had welded up the valve seats probably 40 years ago.

New parts arrived Saturday morning - including valve guides.




Patrick Hayes points out that the intake guide has a hole so that intake suction can pull oil mist to the rockerbox and guide.
 The new guide was not drilled so marked it and drilled (bolt is to protect the far side of the guide when the bit breaks through).  Then marked to align guide with hole in head.

   



Heat in oven to 300F  :thewife:  and drive out old guides - fortunately I had a drift that fit well.  Put new guides in freezer   :thewife:    Reheat the head   :thewife:   line up the marks and drive 'er home.  Realized later I could have drilled the oil passage after installing , but lined up OK.

   


Unfortunately the exhaust guide is for another engine or made too small.  :sad:  Will take to machine shop if time on Monday.
1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #204 on: January 21, 2018, 06:49:47 PM »
Thanks again. Most people don't have a clue about the work involved when they look at an old machine peacefully putting along.   :smiley:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #205 on: January 21, 2018, 08:10:09 PM »
Saturday's package also included transmission bearings so Sunday is crankcase day.  Yay!

Didn't want to screw this up so cleaned the crankcases again (they'd been sitting out for a couple months) then got all the parts and tools and pictures ready.  Even wrote myself some instructions.




Guzzi used felt oil seals.  If the felt spins with the bearing or shaft the felt wears the aluminum casting. I used a center punch to raise some burrs in their seats and then glued the felt to the case with super glue (after testing that it would survive the heat).  If you are doing this for real there only 2 felt seals that need to be installed at this time - one under each transmission bearing. The right side trans bearing has a stepped steel spacer between the seal and the bearing - the flat side goes against the bearing.

There is no reference I can find in the GTV manual about heating the crankcase before driving in the bearings.  The bearings are staked into the case after installation so maybe not needed? 
Either way - I'm using heat.   :thewife:    At least the oven is Italian!  (Jill is a bit of a motorhead so I had permission :cool:)

 


The transmission bearings are special '30s Italian weird size - custom made or modified.  I left the bearings in their plastic wrappers until ready, but better would be to take them out and make sure they run smooth.  The clutch side bearing was tight and dirty right out of the package!  It was also tight in the case (this was also the most worn bearing when pulled apart) - the right side trans bearing just fell in (and out) of the hot case.  Not sure how determine fit before installation except maybe test install the old bearings?  If I ever do this again with this engine I'll know what to look for - live and learn.  :rolleyes:

Both transmission special weird transmission bearings seemed tight with very little internal clearance. I hope they are not too tight to last.

Given the variability and expense and of the weird trans bearings it makes sense to clean them, test fit and possibly polish a tight fitting case before fitting - there is no way to drive the bearing out without denting the races and balls.

The clutch (left trans) bearing was tight and noisy, but washing repeatedly with solvent and light oil as made it roll smoothly and quietly.

Heat of the oven caused oil to migrate out of the porous sand-cast case. 




Bearings in!






1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #206 on: January 22, 2018, 08:51:40 PM »
Thanks again. Most people don't have a clue about the work involved when they look at an old machine peacefully putting along.   :smiley:

Thanks Chuck,
It must be exponentially more work when that old machine is an AIRPLANE!   :thumb:
1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #207 on: January 23, 2018, 08:42:11 AM »
Not really. Airplanes by design are simple machines.  :smiley:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline lti_57

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #208 on: January 23, 2018, 02:20:52 PM »
I hope Si and I can make it back over for Vashon
Love to see this in person again after all the work you have put into it
nice job
2007 Guzzi Griso
1992 BMW K75

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #209 on: January 23, 2018, 10:00:24 PM »
Not really. Airplanes by design are simple machines.  :smiley:

one of my old motorcycles with propeller and wings??? Yikes!!!

You are WAAY too modest Chuck.   :grin:
1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

 

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