Author Topic: V7III Charging System  (Read 11035 times)

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #120 on: August 09, 2020, 10:53:43 PM »
I'm pleased to say mine is working with the new stator also, I went for a 2 day trip 1100 km to celebrate and the battery Voltage maintained 14.5 - 14.7 for the duration.
It would be down about 12.8 first thing in the morning but soon gained 14+ once running.
It took me over 5 hours to change the stator mainly due to lack of access.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
If anyone else is faced with pulling the timing cover off I highly recommend drilling a hole through the ABS brackets to get access to that top bolt, its not impossible to remove without, just difficult.

You can see in this view that the ABS bracket is right in the way of the top cover bolt so that had to come apart, what a pain that was, 3 bolts to remove and no access, more about that later.

Never again will I have to unbolt all the ABS brackets to gain access to the top timing cover bolt, I drilled this rough hole through both brackets, I,ll spray it tomorrow.
I should have drilled this hole right from the start, it goes through two brackets about 1/2" below the slot, the factory of course would add the ABS after the engine is installed. You have to drill this in-situ because one bracket is part of the frame the other is next to impossible to remove, its behind the Voltage regulator.
Watch you don't drill a hole in the breather hose while drilling it. I have the newspaper in there to deflect any drillings and protect the paint.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 05:05:46 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since March 15 1921

Offline Zoom Zoom

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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #121 on: August 10, 2020, 05:42:45 AM »
Roy, just a little clarity of what I'm looking at in your top picture.

Am I correct that the L shaped bracket is the one you actually need to remove? Looking at the pics, the front bracket appears to be an integral part of the frame. (Welded to it.)

For all I know, there might come a time for me as well...

John Henry

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #122 on: August 10, 2020, 06:30:20 AM »
It appears as though the rear bracket is removable, the two torx bolts hold it to the front bracket and its bolted to the ABS unit with 3 x 8 mm bolts which you can barely get a wrench on
Even with all the bolts out I was unable to move the rear bracket very far, just enough to get a ball end key into the top bolt at an angle.

Yes the front bracket is welded in place.

I really hate drilling holes in anything but in this case I think its an improvement that could have been done at the factory, the hole about 1/2" below the slot and allows a straight shot at the bolt and its hidden by the regulator.
This crude sketch may help explain it.


Hopefully Vagrant will comment as he just went through this as well, he may have found the secret pathway.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 07:20:35 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline jpv7

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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #123 on: August 10, 2020, 07:26:45 AM »
I'm pleased to say mine is working with the new stator also, I went for a 2 day trip 1100 km to celebrate and the battery Voltage maintained 14.5 - 14.7 for the duration.
It would be down about 12.8 first thing in the morning but soon gained 14+ once running.
It took me over 5 hours to change the stator mainly due to lack of access.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
If anyone else is faced with pulling the timing cover off I highly recommend drilling a hole through the ABS brackets to get access to that top bolt, its not impossible to remove without, just difficult.

You can see in this view that the ABS bracket is right in the way of the top cover bolt so that had to come apart, what a pain that was, 3 bolts to remove and no access, more about that later.

Never again will I have to unbolt all the ABS brackets to gain access to the top timing cover bolt, I drilled this rough hole through both brackets, I,ll spray it tomorrow.
I should have drilled this hole right from the start, it goes through two brackets about 1/2" below the slot, the factory of course would add the ABS after the engine is installed.
You have to drill this in-situ because one bracket is part of the frame the other is next to impossible to remove, its behind the Voltage regulator.
Watch you don't drill a hole in the breather hose while drilling it. I have the newspaper in there to deflect any drillings and protect the paint.
Sounds similar to what I faced on the V7ii.  I managed to unbolt the abs module from the bracket (which took most of the time), and then maneuvered the bracket out of the way which was tight also.   

Wildguzzi.com

Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #123 on: August 10, 2020, 07:26:45 AM »

Offline Vagrant

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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #124 on: August 10, 2020, 08:39:05 AM »
Great job, pics and descriptions on this job.
the hole drilling is the way to go otherwise a ball head Allen works if not too tight. PITA!
FYI stock appears to be exactly like my $94. unit. time will tell but I'm switching to Liquid moly oil. Maybe it won't be as susceptible to heat.
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Offline Vagrant

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Offline Zoom Zoom

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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #126 on: August 15, 2020, 07:55:19 AM »
Just out of curiosity, how have you attached that? Looks good BTW. That's how I would do it.... :wink: :grin:

For now, I used (ahem) velcro. I'm not having any trouble with it. Just thinking about something a little cleaner that would not cause permanent damage. Maybe a bead of black silicone or something. (rubbing chin)

John Henry
« Last Edit: August 15, 2020, 08:30:16 AM by Zoom Zoom »

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #127 on: August 15, 2020, 10:45:48 AM »
If you have a small meter just mount it on a piece of sheet metal and pinch it between the handlebar clamp

I see my cheap digital go anywhere between 11 at cranking to 14.8 while running at highway speed.
The LED doesn't photograph well, its showing 12.6 here.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2020, 10:48:19 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline Vagrant

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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #128 on: August 15, 2020, 11:13:09 AM »
A strip of this on each side. I use it for almost everything. Home depot always has it usually in electrical.

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Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #129 on: September 16, 2020, 04:49:07 AM »
I thought it's time I updated this thread. I ordered 6 Amber and 6 Green Voltmeters similar to this button from Amazon https://www.ebay.ca/itm/223807697366
These are not regular Voltmeters in that they won't read right from zero, they need a minimum of about 6 Volts to power up the electronics.
The meters are depicted On-line with a nice curved surface lens but in fact came nothing like that, just a bare display with no attempt at sealing, I sprayed mine with a conformal coating spray, this turned out to be non waterproof, next time I washed the bike water entered and the display went up-scale by about 2 Volts. On drying out the display came back to normal so I mixed up a 2 part epoxy and poured it in. it is now something like as depicted.
-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-  (this stops the internet jamming an advert in here)
With the new stator in place it displays around 14.5 Volts. and will be 12.6 in the morning. After cranking it shows around 10.5 Volts for a few seconds quickly rising above 13 then settles back at 14.5 when above 2000 revs.
-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-
Next I thought better check out the new stator with load.
I normally run an LED head light and two driving lights 10 Watts each, no problem for the new stator.
The system is unable to sustain 14 Volts with my Girbing heated vest and gloves at 100%, Gloves alone don't have a problem, while running the heated heated vest I need to restrict that to about 50%, I can live with that.
-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-
To say the least I'm really pleased with the $3 investment wired across the City Light (Park Light), instead coming out to a flat battery after a toasty ride I will make sure I give the system a chance to recover before I shut her down.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 05:04:16 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline Vagrant

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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #130 on: September 16, 2020, 06:35:11 AM »
I'll join the bandwagon too. My Bosch meter listed above bounced around a lot. They replaced it with a new unit and it read a bit lower than the 14.4 I remembered then eventually dropped to a max of 13. when i put a digital meter on I was relieved to find no stator problem just a poorly adjusted meter. when you look in through the light hole in the back there is a tiny screw to adjust the meter so I did. I haven't had time to ride it yet but will to the rally in Suches this weekend. It could be it doesn't like the vibration on the bike and will go out of calibration again.
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Offline sign216

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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #131 on: September 16, 2020, 09:21:55 AM »

Voltmeter that fit into the dash of my '09  V7.



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Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #132 on: September 16, 2020, 10:08:11 AM »
Voltmeter that fit into the dash of my '09  V7.

Thats a neat installation  :thumb:

Here's mine, normally I would just make a small plate and pinch it between the handlebar clamp but I wanted to fit my tank bag for a trip so I extended it as far as I could go.
It's just wired with a small pair of wires to the City Light. It's actually indicating 12.8 but didn't photograph because of reflection.

« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 09:05:27 PM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline sign216

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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #133 on: September 16, 2020, 02:47:37 PM »
Thats a neat installation  :thumb:

Thanks.  I got it off Ebay, and the fit is close, but it works, at least for the V71.  I think it was originally designed for a moped or electric vehicle. 
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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #134 on: September 16, 2020, 03:28:09 PM »
KR -- that's a great mount for the Givi Easy Lock tank bag.  I gave my 4L bag along with the Norge because I thought its contents would walk away in an urban environment.  But I miss it.  So I assume you made the mount -- correct?  And your doughnut and napkin holder is on top of the Givi tank bag -- correct?

PS what big horns you have.  No wonder you have charging problems. :laugh:

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #135 on: September 16, 2020, 09:25:27 PM »
Yes, I carved the bracket out of 1/8' Aluminium with a coping saw.
I use some longer bolts in the handlebar clamps with 1/2" tube Spacers about 10 mm long.
The bag clears the tank by about half an inch.
In the early days of - here it was impossible to get a cup of coffee, everything but the drive thru was closed so I made the cup holder
I took the napkin holder off, I had another plate with 4 strong magnets to hold my change (all Canadian coins ar ferrous) this would hold napkins and maps etc
I use Tap these days, more convenient.
Its still quicker most times to use the drive thru, then you can pick a nice spot to enjoy your coffee and not have to worry about social distancing.

Loud horns save lives I put a pair of the cheap Fiaams on all my bikes.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 09:30:03 PM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline moto-uno

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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #136 on: September 16, 2020, 11:50:42 PM »
  Roy , I'm curious about your charging system output .You mention that with your LED headlight and heated grips and vest that
your system can't make full voltage . I use a standard H4 headlight bulb and 2 heated vests ( for my better half) and my  Le Mans 2
with the old 280 Watt Bosch system comes to 14v when up to 4000rpm . Is that V7 system not rated for 280 watts also ? Curiosity
is getting to me .   Peter
« Last Edit: October 10, 2020, 11:01:07 AM by moto-uno »

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #137 on: September 17, 2020, 02:20:57 AM »
Peter,
        I'm sure I have read the alternator capacity somewhere, there are hundreds of sites listing the V7 specs but none of them list the alternator capacity.
I downloaded the official brochure, it doesn't mention the alternator, just shows a bunch of hipsters riding V7s
The original headlight was 55/60 Watt, i'm sure I am close to that with the LED headlight and two driving lights.
One of these days I might actually do some measurements but for now I can report just what I found running my heated gear. 50% on the Vest or it drops Voltage, no doubt I will do further testing as the weather turns cold.
I did measure the AC short circuit capacity, that was quite a bit lower than called for called for in the workshop manual, typically 13 instead of 20-25 at 4,000 but i have no faith in the manual, I have to assume that my new stator was good. It's certainly working much better than it did with the old one I'm guessing I have about 100 Watts of extra capacity for heated gear. I can run it on maximum it just might not start again if I shut down.
Doesn't your Lemans run a wound rotor alternator, you said 280 Watts, that should be plenty.
Your 1400 has a fairly large car type alternator with a belt drive, i'm guessing it spins faster than engine speed and has a large capacity.
Roy
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 03:29:10 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline Zoom Zoom

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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #138 on: September 17, 2020, 07:16:08 AM »
IIRC, all the modern models with the external alternator are 550 watts. 1400, Stelvio, Norge, etc.

Yeah, I too saw it somewhere on the SB's but I don't recall off hand.

John Henry

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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #139 on: September 17, 2020, 07:26:01 AM »
Voltmeter that fit into the dash of my '09  V7.





Ther, that's what I was looking for but never found. All now are digital. do you still have the link for it.
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Offline Zoom Zoom

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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #140 on: September 17, 2020, 08:13:54 AM »
Found it. V7III is 268 watts.

John Henry

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #141 on: September 17, 2020, 12:37:41 PM »
Found it. V7III is 268 watts.

John Henry
That sounds about right, I measured the short circuit current at 13 Amps. For 3 phase 13 x 1.732 = 22.5 Amps x 12V = 270 Watts.
Later on looking through the owners manual on page 230 it says 268 Watts.
The workshop manual showed a picture of the test snd said 20 - 25 which is totally wrong, I think they meant 20 - 25 after the regulator.
When I get time I will measure the normal consumption.
                  Key On          Motor running        Comment
Fuse A         530 mA           2.4 A                 Brake On
Fuse B        0                4.85A/5.3A             Low/High beam  With normal H4 bulb
Fuse C       180/80 mA  7.6A*/192 mA         *While cranking
Fuse D       560/480 mA   440 mA
Fuse E       550 mA           470 mA
Fuse F      5.7/1.1 A*          -3A**                 *While Priming/After Priming from this I assume Pump and coils draw 4.6 Amps, ** -3 is charging current going other way
So the total current with the motor running is ~8.8 Amps or ~128 Watts, this doesn't allow for intermittent load like brake light or direction indicators
I revised this load based on fuse F with the pump running to 12.63 Amps or 151 Watts or 14.5 Amps sitting at a light with the head-light on Hi beam and the brake on or 174 Watts

This wasn't a very scientific evaluation, I really need to unplug the Alternator to get a better reading of fuse F, that's a job that requires the tank off.
Heating Load
Girbing Gloves (pair) 26 Watt (2.2A) @ 100%
Girbing Jacket Liner  77 Watt (6.4A) @ 100%
That all adds up to 248 Watts or 277 Watts sitting at a light with the headlight on Hi beam and the brake On

Notes:
I based the Wattage on 12 Volts, perhaps I should have used 14
With my LED headlight and 2 driving lights I save about 1.5 Amps, I used a standard H4 in the calculations.
I haven't really factored in Ignition and injectors, these aren't firing during priming but when running the back flow from alternator interferes with the reading.
The Lambda Probe heaters haven't been measured, I assume these are off when the engine is up to temperature.
By disconnecting the Alternator you would be able to measure the total current directly across fuse F
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2013_V7_Series.gif
Note Alternator/Regulator Items 23/24 are 3 phase not single phase as shown.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2020, 05:04:47 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since March 15 1921

Offline moto-uno

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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #142 on: September 17, 2020, 01:49:10 PM »
 I guess the other thing I'm not too sure of , is how much current does you heated vest draw ? As mentioned above I never had any
problems running both vests (and I'm not sure if I was running the heated grips at the same time) and no problem starting . My vests
are made in B.C by Black Jack . Maybe more efficient ? Ain't electricity great :) .   Peter

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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #143 on: September 17, 2020, 04:45:55 PM »
Ther, that's what I was looking for but never found. All now are digital. do you still have the link for it.

Vagrant,
That purchase was years ago, but the operative search term was "edgewise."  And voltmeter, etc.  I got mine for short money.
The term Edgewise gets you the analog, long voltmeters like that one.   Right now I don't see any on Ebay in the correct volt range, (or price), but if you keep looking one will popup.  Also try moped/scooter parts stores, as I think this was orig. an elec. scooter part.
Joe


P.S.  A search found it:    https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-12-Volt-DC-Voltmeter-Edgewise-Panel-Meter-0-15V-Modutec-Made-USA-147-/352556934708

P.P.S.  The voltmeter actually reads 0.5 v low.  The seller said that's the way it is, and I've learned to live w it.
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Offline Zoom Zoom

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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #144 on: September 18, 2020, 08:19:36 AM »
I guess the other thing I'm not too sure of , is how much current does you heated vest draw ? As mentioned above I never had any
problems running both vests (and I'm not sure if I was running the heated grips at the same time) and no problem starting . My vests
are made in B.C by Black Jack . Maybe more efficient ? Ain't electricity great :) .   Peter

I don't recall what my vest or gloves draw any more, but the heated gear makers publish how many watts their gear uses. Check out the manufacturers site for numbers or maybe just google it. Shouldn't be to hard to locate.

John Henry


Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #145 on: September 18, 2020, 09:27:36 AM »
I don't recall what my vest or gloves draw any more, but the heated gear makers publish how many watts their gear uses. Check out the manufacturers site for numbers or maybe just google it. Shouldn't be to hard to locate.

John Henry
Girbing Gloves (pair) 26 Watt (2.2A) @ 100%
Girbing Jacket Liner  77 Watt (6.4A) @ 100%
The current doesn't change as, you turn the controller down it spends more time Off
Similar to the simmerstat on your cooking range.
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Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since March 15 1921

Offline Vagrant

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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #146 on: September 18, 2020, 09:40:25 AM »
But, the real story is the 2017+ is a suck ass mediocre system and a major step backward from the 2015 V7.
I bet it's off one of there scooters.
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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #147 on: October 10, 2020, 07:56:49 AM »
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TZCB7JV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07T4H4FR3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1









so here are my final fixes. I hope!
a blind person can see this digital voltmeter.
Bill H supplied me with the # for this made for cycles LED headlight. when you remove the stock bulb there is a black ring in there held in by two tiny screws. remove them and it and the bulb fit perfectly. I also have an LED taillight.
all necessary if you want to run stuff! I always have a radar detector and a Garmin car GPS running. cruising along at 4000 RPM at 14.4 volts the bike drops 1 volt when the Oxford grips are on 60%. Using a heat troller and a Gerbing jacket liner at 50% it drops 1 more volt leaving you at 12.5 or so. turning off the radar detector and the Garmin makes no difference.
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Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: V7III Charging System
« Reply #148 on: October 10, 2020, 09:24:52 AM »
I have been testing with my heated gear running.
The alternator will hold the battery at 13.5 Volts with the gear on 100% as long as you are riding.
Stop at a light though with your foot on the brake and it will soon be hovering at around 12, it takes a long time to recover from there.
Running at 50% it is fine, you can do that all day.
I really think if you are going to run heated gear on your V7 you should have a Voltmeter otherwise you might find your battery flat next time you try to start.
I powered my heated gear controller from fuse A so it's turned off with the key, leaving it on with the engine not running would run the battery down in no-time.
My Voltmeter, the bracket is held by a rubber covered bolt jammed into the large hex of the steering stem.
The bluetooth heated gear controls pinched between the bar clamps.

Bluetooth heatroller glued to the airbox under the LH side cover.

The Bluetooth link has a delay, you can see a low Voltage on the Voltmeter and turn the knob down, it might take 30 seconds before the Voltage comes back up. The handlebar unit has a small LED you can see pulse to update the heat setting 0 thru A on the heatroller
« Last Edit: October 12, 2020, 05:31:02 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
72 Eldorado
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76 Convert
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