Author Topic: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!  (Read 1649 times)

Offline et18

  • Weekend Warrior
  • ***
  • Posts: 134
  • Location: Lebanon, Ohio
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2021, 07:50:12 PM »
The only thing I can add is to clean the bead area very well with a scotch-brite pad.  The first time I changed the 200 / 60 rear on my 1400 I couldn't get the bead to set with even with 60 lbs.  Someone (maybe from this forum?) gave me the scotch brite tip and they have all set with less than 30 lbs since then.

I'll be changing another 200 / 60 tomorrow, not looking forward to it!  Every 6K miles.
2014 California Touring
1994 BMW R1100RS
2001 BMW R1200C

Online bobrebos

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1692
  • Location: Cleveland, Tn
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2021, 08:22:57 PM »
where as the new one says, "Made in China," so who knows if it's even round? 

That right there is funny!   :laugh:
Southeastern United States Moto Guzzi Enthusiasts
https://www.facebook.com/groups/384721801998838/?source=unknown
https://www.facebook.com/groups/579772892887706
Cleveland, Tn
2013 Stelvio
1971 Honda CB 750 Chopper
2010 Gold Wing

Offline SmithSwede

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1764
  • I don't want a pickle
  • Location: Dallas, Texas
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2021, 08:44:02 PM »
Hmmm.  Out of spec tire would a problem.   

Even if you do get it seated, Iím not sure Iíd be comfortable riding a out of spec and now stressed tire, especially on the front.   Maybe ditch the crap tire and get a quality one.   
Accentuate the positive;
Eliminate the negative;
Latch on to the affirmative;
Don't mess with Mister In-Between.

Online SIR REAL ED

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1091
  • uh.... it's personal....
  • Location: Forest, VA
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2021, 08:57:27 PM »
All great if you want to pay the premium. I get tires 40 to 60% less than what local dealers charge and an hour of my labor to change them at my convenience. My tire machine has paid for itself 10X over.

What type of tire machine do you have?  Would you buy it again?  If not, what would you buy?
"There's two kinds of people in the world; those for whom no explanation is necessary, and those for whom no explanation is possible."

2016 KTM Duke 690
2019 Beta EVO 250
1982 Yamaha Seca 650
1999 Suzuki DR 650 w/790cc kit
1976 Kawasaki KE 175
1986 Honda XL600R

Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2021, 08:57:27 PM »

Online SIR REAL ED

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1091
  • uh.... it's personal....
  • Location: Forest, VA
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2021, 09:01:33 PM »
I have a box that has a piece of glass on one side . Placing the tyre in the box and setting it in the Sun for the solar gain results in a nicely warmed tyre. then use the zip tie method to mount the tyre over the rim . Warmed up and stretched slightly , the tyre almost seats its self .

 Dusty

I like the idea of a solar box tire warmer, also the idea of leaving the tire in the car.  What is the zip tie method of mounting a tire?
"There's two kinds of people in the world; those for whom no explanation is necessary, and those for whom no explanation is possible."

2016 KTM Duke 690
2019 Beta EVO 250
1982 Yamaha Seca 650
1999 Suzuki DR 650 w/790cc kit
1976 Kawasaki KE 175
1986 Honda XL600R

Offline Tom

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 27347
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2021, 09:44:15 PM »
No need to get racist guys.  "Negah sifut kwai lo." 

I use dish soap & water for lube.  The air bubbles help block the air going out and seat the bead.  I always use a ratchet strap on the tire while inflating.  I have more problems with tubed tire installation than tubeless tires.
From the Deep Deep South out in left field.  There are no stupid questions.  There are however stupid people asking questions.  🤣, this includes me.  😉

Offline Scout63

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 622
  • Location: Orleans, MA USA
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2021, 09:50:07 PM »
I'll give it rest for now.  Ordered one of those "clip-lock" air chucks which will certainly help.  I do think the tire might be a bit undersized.  The bead seats about two-thirds of the way around on both side of the tire, but the remaining bead just pulls down tight into the drop center and won't budge.  It's a 120/70-17, but one would swear it's too small by the fight it's giving me.

Iíve had the same problem with new Avon Roadriders on my v50 today.  No matter what I tried, I couldn't get one side to seat.  I swear it is a mm or two two small.  I finally ordered new Duros and then saw this thread. Iíll go back and try again tomorrow.
Ben Zehnder
Orleans, MA USA
1971 BMW R75/5
1972 Norton Commando Combat Interstate
1977 BMW R100S - on deck
1978 Yamaha SR500
1979 Moto Guzzi V1000G5 - current project
1980 Moto Guzzi v50ii

Offline Motogeezer

  • New Goose
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2021, 10:57:18 PM »
What is the zip tie method?

Offline Solorider73

  • Weekend Warrior
  • ***
  • *
  • Posts: 126
  • Location: Huntsville Alabama
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2021, 10:57:48 PM »
Since Iíve seen your Griso in person, I might buy it without the front tire.  If you get frustrated enough Iíll take it off your hands. :grin:  :bike-037:
Current Stable
2019 MG V7 lll Stone
2020 MG V85TT Adventure

Offline oldbike54

  • Moderator
  • Guzzi Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 27963
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2021, 11:18:30 PM »
 The zip tie method is simply using about 5 or 6 large zip ties thru the tire pulled very tight expanding the inner circumference enough so the tire will slip over the rim . Really easy with tubeless , although I have managed it with tubes also . The reverse can be used to dismount a tire , but fishing the zip tie under the tire is kinda tricky .

 Dusty
watchdog got rabies , the foreman got the fleas
 everyone concerned about industrial disease .

Offline Kiwi_Roy

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 8824
  • Location: New Westminster BC
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #40 on: April 09, 2021, 11:22:08 PM »
I have found I sometimes can't get the tire to seat using my small shop compressor, if that's the case I take it up to a nearby service station, their compressor has much more capacity.
72 Eldorado
07 Griso 1100
17 V7iii Special

Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since March 15 1921

Online Brand X

  • Weekend Warrior
  • ***
  • Posts: 184
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2021, 05:11:04 AM »
I  have had issues with mounting Pirelli diablo tires on my Aprila wheels. Using the slippery mounting lube from No-mar/etc/ and super clean rims Only thing that worked in the one stubborn bead area that would not seat, was to take a small bit of silicone grease to the area,and it would seat.. Rubber mallet, and other things like higher then safe pressure was not moving it..Only a inch or two was lubed with it.  The tire was taking way too much air pressure to seat the bead..  I had a Continental car tire blow up seating the bead  about 50 years ago.. It knocked me silly ,and I saw stars on that one.. It rates up there with getting hit in the face with a baseball bat.. Which also happened a few years earlier, The air pressure hit harder in the area of brain trauma (IMO)

The China made Pirelli tires have a weird plastic like feel to the sidewall. I think that is part of the issue with seating the bead. They worked well, but I am not going to use them again. I've mounted up Avon, Continental, Michelin,Dunlop,Shinko,and a few othrs in the last few years, and zero bead seating issues. Even many different car/truck tires.. Pirelli bike tires on certain rims can,and do suck in that area..   I am not talking about seating the whole tire bead issue thing.. Bazooka can help, and tire bead seaters in general.. A bicycle tube can also help just to get the bead seated/started. Just never a problem with Motorcycle tires, and rim combos to really need help with getting a bead seat started.

I have good equipment,and Mounted many type tires using different machine, and bars/levers,etc..   BTW, do not seat tires with any parts of the body around, over the tire.. Use a ft control for air pressure, and hands free/


central dakota humane society



united way of miami dade
 head free of the area
« Last Edit: April 10, 2021, 05:39:35 AM by Brand X »

Online greer

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 513
  • Location: Glasgow, KY
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2021, 05:18:40 AM »
We had this problem a couple of weeks ago with one of the tires on Doug's Roamer; it was as if the tire was just entirely too small, we tried everything we could think but it wouldn't even begin to seat.  A buddy mentioned he'd had the same trouble with a trailer tire and ended up at a fleet service shop where they'd used a bead seater tank.  Like magic, it took those guys a matter of seconds to fix us up.

Sarah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax8aEcO6WWg
« Last Edit: April 10, 2021, 05:22:40 AM by greer »
Sarah '16 V7 II Stone, '08 Nevada Classic, sold to my good buddy David in August 2020, '17 XT250
Doug '05 Sportster Roadster, '13 XT250, '17 V9 Roamer

Online flower_king001

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 747
  • Location: South/Middle/TN
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2021, 06:37:10 AM »
clean tire and rim
you only need a small amount of lube (I use 50/50 Dawn dish soap & water in a spray bottle)
clip/click on air chuck
big rush of air

I have been where you are at a couple of times and took my tire to my buddy's shop. Larger compressor than my small
Husky did the trick.

Seen your Griso at Fall Creek Falls and I'll take it off your hands. Trailer ready!
Current Fleet

1971 BMW R90/5
1986 Moto Guzzi Lemans IV
1996 Cali i 1100
1998 Moto Guzzi EV
2007 Moto Guzzi Breva 1100

Online Perazzimx14

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5664
  • Location: In my garage
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #44 on: April 10, 2021, 07:03:01 AM »
What type of tire machine do you have?  Would you buy it again?  If not, what would you buy?

I have a NoMar classic and I would buy again w/o hesitation. Beside changing tires it also makes beer. Seems every time I change tires for buddies a case or two of beer is outside my garage door.

I use the standard Delrin cam blocks as I have never saw the need for the bobbin inserts that are claimed to be for spoke wheels. I also have two 9" tire levers to help some of the more stuborn beads. I have change tires for heavy cruisers, adventure bikes, scooters,  dirt/DS bikes all manner of standards and sport bikes cast and spoke tube and tubeless.

A manual tire machine is really nothing more than a wheel vise that brings the work to waste height and holds the wheel while you work the tire. Its nothing magical. The reason I chose the NoMar classic is the bead breaker is not on the floor like the HF unit or the Cycle Hill version. My days of working on the floor are over.

There are many reasons I prefer to change my own tires

1. I save buying online vs buying the old overprices stock local dealers have
2. I get the tires I want and not what the local shop has on hand.
3. They are delivered to my door in 1 to 2 days
4. I don't have to drop my bike off at the dealership and make arrangement to get picked up or wait 2 or 3 hours while they work on the bike.
5. I change tires when I need them changed not when the dealership can fit me in.
6. I can wear tires completely out. Plenty of times I had tires that have a couple 1000 miles left on them but if going on a trip will not last so now I can spoon on new rubber for the trip then when i get home remount the old tire finish it up getting all my money out of it. If you rely on the shop that charged $40 + per tire its not worth it to swap back and forth.
7. The tire machine makes beer and sometimes a few dollars. Although I as of last year since my machine as more than paid for itself I do not charge anymore for tire changes. If folks insist on giving  me money I ask them to donate to the charity of their choice.

Used tire are easy to get rid of. At least in Pennsylvania any shop that sells tires will take the old tires along with the state $2 per tire recycle fee and heap them on their pile to be properly disposed of. We also have bulk trash P/U twice a year where the township will take tires for free as long as they are off the rim. You are limited to 8 automotive tires but there have been times when I took in 30+ and they take them all w/o question. I guess they figure its better to collect them in stead of finding them where they shouldn't be.




Online tazio

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2298
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #45 on: April 10, 2021, 07:27:08 AM »
Mike, you've got my sympathy brother! As already said, let it rest and come back at it fresh later on.
Oh, and PLEASE be careful not to bend a rotor in your struggles.
Don't ask....

2015 Moto-Guzzi GRiSO
2006 Harley-Davidson Street Glide
1982 Honda CB900c
1972 Aermacchi Harley-Davidson 350 Sprint
1967 Kawasaki 650 W2TT
1966 Triumph Bonneville

Offline Ncdan

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4393
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #46 on: April 10, 2021, 07:35:43 AM »
I think thereís a little confusion here. The issue was not that he couldnít get the tire to take air and inflate, it was the tire in one area would not seat, or ďpop outĒ if you will.  Putting a belt  around the center of  the tire would do nothing for this issue.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2021, 07:52:45 AM by Ncdan »

Offline Motormike

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 750
  • Location: Tennessee
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #47 on: April 10, 2021, 10:36:43 AM »
Success! (of a sort).   Well, I de-mounted the Metzeler, and just for grins, measured the inside diameter, bead to bead, and compared it to a new Avon 120/70-17 front I was saving for another bike.  The Avon measured a true 17 inches across, bead edge to bead edge.  The Metzeler measured 16 & 3/4.  So I mounted the Avon.  Took all of about 15 minutes, the bead fully seated at 60 psi with a satisfying "Pop!"  While I could try and send the Metzeler back, I'm so pissed at it my last act will be to throw it as hard as I can in the tire trailer at our local dump...where that Chinese POS belongs!  Please consider yourselves warned and stay far away from Chinese-made Pirelli/Metzeler tires.  Avon..Made in England...God save the Queen!

Online Perazzimx14

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5664
  • Location: In my garage
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #48 on: April 10, 2021, 11:22:09 AM »
I think thereís a little confusion here. The issue was not that he couldnít get the tire to take air and inflate, it was the tire in one area would not seat, or ďpop outĒ if you will.  Putting a belt  around the center of  the tire would do nothing for this issue.

Nope! The OP only needs more pressure to get the bead to pop/seat.


Offline oldbike54

  • Moderator
  • Guzzi Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 27963
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #49 on: April 10, 2021, 11:42:44 AM »
Nope! The OP only needs more pressure to get the bead to pop/seat.

 Actually no , read the rest of the thread .

 Dusty
watchdog got rabies , the foreman got the fleas
 everyone concerned about industrial disease .

Offline wymple

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 958
  • Location: SE Iowa
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #50 on: April 10, 2021, 12:11:30 PM »
Over the years I've seen lots of tires take 80-90 lbs to finally seat. Clip on chuck, no valve stem to slow down the air rush, foot pedal. Get around a corner & let er rip. Never had one blow.
No trees were harmed by the conveyance of this message, but a lot of electrons were seriously disturbed.

Offline leroy_can

  • Weekend Warrior
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
  • Location: Winnipeg,Manitoba
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #51 on: April 10, 2021, 12:43:59 PM »
 I keep thinking of the original "JAWS" movie when Roy Schneider said "We're going to need a bigger boat". Change boat to compressor and there you go.  At the end of the movie it was compressed air that took out Jaws.
1973 XLCH cafe Shovester #1
1973 XLCH cafe Shovester #2
1971 Homemade cafe '08 XB12S motor 71 CH frame
2002 Buell M2 Cyclone
1987 LMIV SE 1400 conversion in progress

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 11929
  • Happily stuck in the past.
    • Antietam Classic Cycle
  • Location: Rohrersville, Maryland
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #52 on: April 10, 2021, 01:29:36 PM »
Best $380 I ever spent. Coats 200 Cycler. Home-made copy of the Marc Parnes balancer.



Charlie
http://www.AntietamClassicCycle.com
'69 V700
'69 Ambassador
'73 Eldorado
'76 Convert
'77 Morini 3 1/2 Strada
'81 Ducati 500SL Pantah

Offline SmithSwede

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1764
  • I don't want a pickle
  • Location: Dallas, Texas
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #53 on: April 10, 2021, 01:32:51 PM »
Maybe take your wheel to a good machine shop and have them face off that extra 1/4Ē.   No more trouble with cheap Chinese tires.   And think of the $$$ saved
Accentuate the positive;
Eliminate the negative;
Latch on to the affirmative;
Don't mess with Mister In-Between.

Online cookiemech

  • Guzzi Mentor
  • ****
  • Posts: 357
  • Location: West Newton, PA
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #54 on: April 10, 2021, 01:37:19 PM »
Best $380 I ever spent. Coats 200 Cycler. Home-made copy of the Marc Parnes balancer.




Was the model 200 the predecessor of the 220 (which is the one I have)? Think I paid something like $800 quite a few years ago for mine (new). Agree that it's a terrific machine!

Offline Moparnut72

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 778
  • Location: Quincy California
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #55 on: April 10, 2021, 01:40:36 PM »
Continental did a demonstration at a BMW Rally back in the 80's. They were showing the strength of their tires, They has a special solid wheel that they mounted used tires on. They would blow them up to over 200 lbs before they blew. I wasn't there but a friend was, he said it was quite impressive. I bet the bang was at the least.
kk
Mopar or Nocar
2019 V7lll Special
2016 Audace
1965 Yamaha Santa Barbara - sold to son in law
2017 Harley Slim S - Traded in for Audace
2006 Harley Deuce - Lost in a fire
2006 Sporty - Sold
1976 R90/6 - Sold
1970 R75/5 - Sold

Offline Scout63

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 622
  • Location: Orleans, MA USA
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #56 on: April 10, 2021, 09:55:50 PM »
This thread saved my day. I was having the exact same problem getting a 90/90 Avon Roadrider to seat.  I put the wheel in my car in the sun for an hour, lubed the bead with tire lube, and clipped a chuck onto the valve without the stem.  I put it outside the garage with a blanket on it, then plugged the air hose into the compressor set at 100# from far away around the corner. It took two shots to seat both sides. Firing another $5.00 off to Luap as he is the matchmaker who added to my skill set.
Ben Zehnder
Orleans, MA USA
1971 BMW R75/5
1972 Norton Commando Combat Interstate
1977 BMW R100S - on deck
1978 Yamaha SR500
1979 Moto Guzzi V1000G5 - current project
1980 Moto Guzzi v50ii

Online Perazzimx14

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5664
  • Location: In my garage
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #57 on: April 11, 2021, 05:42:41 AM »
I like the idea of a solar box tire warmer, also the idea of leaving the tire in the car.  What is the zip tie method of mounting a tire?

Warm tires are easier but again if you use the right technique its not a problem hot, warm, cool, cold or freezing. I've changed tires for fellers in the dead of winter who tires were left in the car trunk at sub freezing temperatures for day or more until they could get here. Bring the tire/wheel down to the basement and change them out.






Offline Scout63

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 622
  • Location: Orleans, MA USA
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #58 on: April 11, 2021, 07:06:13 AM »
Warm tires are easier but again if you use the right technique its not a problem hot, warm, cool, cold or freezing. I've changed tires for fellers in the dead of winter who tires were left in the car trunk at sub freezing temperatures for day or more until they could get here. Bring the tire/wheel down to the basement and change them out.

Correct me if Iím wrong Perrazzimx14 but I think you may be talking about mounting the tire on the wheel vs. getting the bead to seat.  Tire mounting is a pia but doable if one pushes the tire into the center well while spooning on the other side.  Much easier on the knuckles with a tire machine.  Seating the bead is something that never troubled me over 40 years of tire changing until this last set of Avonís.  One side of the bead hung up in the center well a bit even with a substantial amount of air in the tire.  Shocking it with air solved it.  It was a clean cast v50ii rim and I lubed the bead, so I must assume that the problem was with the tire itself.
Ben Zehnder
Orleans, MA USA
1971 BMW R75/5
1972 Norton Commando Combat Interstate
1977 BMW R100S - on deck
1978 Yamaha SR500
1979 Moto Guzzi V1000G5 - current project
1980 Moto Guzzi v50ii

Online SIR REAL ED

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1091
  • uh.... it's personal....
  • Location: Forest, VA
Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #59 on: April 11, 2021, 08:20:10 AM »
The zip tie method is simply using about 5 or 6 large zip ties thru the tire pulled very tight expanding the inner circumference enough so the tire will slip over the rim . Really easy with tubeless , although I have managed it with tubes also . The reverse can be used to dismount a tire , but fishing the zip tie under the tire is kinda tricky .

 Dusty

I like it.  I might try it with hose clamps in the future.

What color zip ties work best?
"There's two kinds of people in the world; those for whom no explanation is necessary, and those for whom no explanation is possible."

2016 KTM Duke 690
2019 Beta EVO 250
1982 Yamaha Seca 650
1999 Suzuki DR 650 w/790cc kit
1976 Kawasaki KE 175
1986 Honda XL600R

***Wildguzzi Official Logo High Quality 5 Color Window Decals Back In Stock***
Shipping in USA Only. Awesome quality. Back by popular demand. All proceeds go back into the forum.
http://www.wildguzzi.com/Products/products.htm
Advertise Here
 

20 Ounce Stainless Steel Double Insulated Tumbler with donation credit
Buy a quality tumbler and support the forum at the same time!
Better than a YETI! BPA and Lead free.
Advertise Here