Author Topic: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!  (Read 1997 times)

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #60 on: April 11, 2021, 08:39:07 AM »
Was the model 200 the predecessor of the 220 (which is the one I have)? Think I paid something like $800 quite a few years ago for mine (new). Agree that it's a terrific machine!

Yes, the 200 was the predecessor of the 220. The 220 was $1200 when last available. My brother bought mine (used) while on a road trip in the Carolinas.
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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #61 on: April 11, 2021, 08:51:12 AM »
I like it.  I might try it with hose clamps in the future.

What color zip ties work best?
A ratchet tie down works much more efficiently and much stronger.

oldbike54

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #62 on: April 11, 2021, 08:54:15 AM »
I like it.  I might try it with hose clamps in the future.

What color zip ties work best?

 Hose clamps have sharp edges that might damage a tyre or the rim , and would be slow . A bag of 20 large zip ties doesn't cost much . I have a zip tie gun , it has a ratchet assembly that pulls the ties really right .

 Oh , white works best  :laugh:

 Dusty

oldbike54

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #63 on: April 11, 2021, 08:58:11 AM »
A ratchet tie down works much more efficiently and much stronger.

 Two different concepts Dan , we aren't wrapping the circumference of the tyre with zip ties , they are going around the carcass to expand the inner circumference . I have learned that stretching the tyre this way also helps it seat if yo keep it warm .

 Dusty

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #63 on: April 11, 2021, 08:58:11 AM »

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #64 on: April 11, 2021, 10:38:14 AM »
Two different concepts Dan , we aren't wrapping the circumference of the tyre with zip ties , they are going around the carcass to expand the inner circumference . I have learned that stretching the tyre this way also helps it seat if yo keep it warm .

 Dusty
Ok, got it. Yes, different cause and effect objective👍

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #65 on: April 11, 2021, 11:35:20 AM »
Actually no , read the rest of the thread .

 Dusty

Actually yes! Pressure is what pushes the tire bead outward and over the bead of the rim. If the tire bead is not being pushed over the wheel bead at a given pressure there is not enough pressure to push it over.



It's the ones who've cracked that the light shines through!

oldbike54

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #66 on: April 11, 2021, 11:38:38 AM »
Actually yes! Pressure is what pushes the tire bead outward and over the bead of the rim. If the tire bead is not being pushed over the wheel bead at a given pressure there is not enough pressure to push it over.

 Dude , the tyre was 1/4 inch too small , you are being a bit too cocksure here .

 Dusty
« Last Edit: April 11, 2021, 10:02:48 PM by oldbike54 »

oldbike54

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #67 on: April 11, 2021, 11:59:14 AM »
Dude , the tyre was 1/4 inch too small , you are being a bit to cocksure here .

 Dusty

 let me rephrase that . Would you bet a hundred bucks that putting oh say 200 PSI to the tyre would 100% for certain seat it , then would bet that the structural integrity of the tyre would not be compromised by being permanently stretched over the rim ?

 Dusty

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #68 on: April 11, 2021, 01:54:15 PM »
let me rephrase that . Would you bet a hundred bucks that putting oh say 200 PSI to the tyre would 100% for certain seat it , then would bet that the structural integrity of the tyre would not be compromised by being permanently stretched over the rim ?

 Dusty

I have no idea if 200# or 137.6# or 54.4# is the magic number. But yes I'd wager a bet that more pressure than has been used and did not set the bead will set the bead.

Bring you tire and $100 bill along. I have an air compressor and beer.  I can also prepare dinner if you like. Any food allergies or dislikes?
It's the ones who've cracked that the light shines through!

oldbike54

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #69 on: April 11, 2021, 01:57:50 PM »
I have no idea if 200# or 137.6# or 54.4# is the magic number. But yes I'd wager a bet that more pressure than has been used and did not set the bead will set the bead.

Bring you tire and $100 bill along. I have an air compressor and beer.  I can also prepare dinner if you like. Any food allergies or dislikes?

 You are willing to risk another member's safety to prove a point then ? Think about this for a moment , because that is what I am reading .

 Here's the deal , the OP is ultimately the person who must make the decision . you do you , let him make his choice , fair enough ?

 Dusty

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #70 on: April 11, 2021, 03:05:28 PM »
You are willing to risk another member's safety to prove a point then ? Think about this for a moment , because that is what I am reading .

 Here's the deal , the OP is ultimately the person who must make the decision . you do you , let him make his choice , fair enough ?

 Dusty

Well there's a spin I didn't anticipate. You made the bet I'm willing to follow through. As for safety you or anyone else for that matter safety will not be jeopardized. If you like you can put on a flack jacket, goggles, helmet and stand behind bullet proof glass if you want to bring all that stuff along or even vacate the property while I inflate the tire.

I'm not promoting doing anything unsafe although anytime you are working with pressurized items there is a risk factor. Be that as it may sometime it takes more than 20 or 30 pounds of pressure to "set" a bead. Clip on the chuck, crank up the pressure a bit and stand back.

I got that hundy waiting whenever you are ready.

It's the ones who've cracked that the light shines through!

oldbike54

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #71 on: April 11, 2021, 03:21:05 PM »
Well there's a spin I didn't anticipate. You made the bet I'm willing to follow through. As for safety you or anyone else for that matter safety will not be jeopardized. If you like you can put on a flack jacket, goggles, helmet and stand behind bullet proof glass if you want to bring all that stuff along or even vacate the property while I inflate the tire.

I'm not promoting doing anything unsafe although anytime you are working with pressurized items there is a risk factor. Be that as it may sometime it takes more than 20 or 30 pounds of pressure to "set" a bead. Clip on the chuck, crank up the pressure a bit and stand back.

I got that hundy waiting whenever you are ready.

 You can do whatever you want with your tires , telling someone else they are somehow stupid for not wanting to do the same is problematic . Capeesh?

 Dusty

Offline Tom

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #72 on: April 11, 2021, 03:23:23 PM »
I've used air pressures up to 90# before.  Most times a bead will be set at lower air pressure.  DEPENDS on the tire maker and how old the tire is.  The race of the people making the tires doesn't make a difference.  It's the company making them. 

In the past I've different results from American, German and Italian. 
From the Deep Deep South out in left field.  There are no stupid questions.  There are however stupid people asking questions.  🤣, this includes me.  😉

oldbike54

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #73 on: April 11, 2021, 03:30:14 PM »
I've used air pressures up to 90# before.  Most times a bead will be set at lower air pressure.  DEPENDS on the tire maker and how old the tire is.  The race of the people making the tires doesn't make a difference.  It's the company making them. 

In the past I've different results from American, German and Italian.

 Agree , and I have used 90 PSI also , but haven't ever had a tyre that measured small and won't insult someone for not wanting to use extreme pressure .

 Dusty

Offline lazlokovacs

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #74 on: April 11, 2021, 04:22:41 PM »
OP glad you got it sorted,

I also had a pirelli once that was an absolute pig to seat.... about 5 years ago IIRC

didnt think to check its country of origin at the time, maybe their quality control is dropping? Anyone else have problems with Pirelli?

Offline SIR REAL ED

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #75 on: April 11, 2021, 07:54:21 PM »
in the interests of returning this thread to the polite world of real world useful information, can we all admit to using a hacksaw or a chainsaw to remove a stubborn tire when we hit the wall?

"Works a treat!" as the Brits like to say!

 Ox acetylene torch?  Now that's a bit extreme!
"There's two kinds of people in the world; those for whom no explanation is necessary, and those for whom no explanation is possible."

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Offline Motormike

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #76 on: April 11, 2021, 08:00:17 PM »
Boy, you guys really ran the line out on this one😄. While it’s only a guess, l think the slightly undersized tire was catching but good on the spoke nipples in the drop center. And no amount of air pressure my compressor could generate would budge it. The Griso rim spokes are sealed with o-rings as most of you know, making for a very rough drop center.  Basically acting like so many fish hooks on the tire bead. I suspect the tire bead would have seated easier on a cast rim. The Avon bead seated “normally” with 60 psi.  That 1/4 inch more room made all the difference.

Offline 80CX100

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #77 on: April 11, 2021, 08:55:05 PM »
in the interests of returning this thread to the polite world of real world useful information, can we all admit to using a hacksaw or a chainsaw to remove a stubborn tire when we hit the wall?

"Works a treat!" as the Brits like to say!

 Ox acetylene torch?  Now that's a bit extreme!

     I brought in the wheels from my old G5 to a local guy who was set up professionally with a top of the line No Mar machine with all the fancy tools; he was very well known and an expert at his trade, all he did was motorcycle tires.

    The tires on the G5 Borrani soft aluminum wheels, looked brand new, still had the little mold nipples on the tread, but the date code was 40 years old. Those tires were so old and stiff, he wasn't budging them a bit.

     He wasn't the cursing type thankfully, but he worked up a powerful sweat, he was totally drenched  :grin: he ended up cutting the tires off using a combination of air grinder cut off wheels and big heavy metal snips  :thewife:  :violent1:

     He retired from the business very shortly after that experience with my old tires, lol :evil:
« Last Edit: April 11, 2021, 08:56:38 PM by 80CX100 »
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oldbike54

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #78 on: April 11, 2021, 08:56:19 PM »
 Sawzall .

 Dusty

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #79 on: April 11, 2021, 09:44:49 PM »
The incident I’m going to tell y’all about is in no way pro or con to anyone’s believes on the subject of air pressure to get a tire to “pop out” or seat.
I worked at a tire shop for several years when I was in high school. I’ll never forget an incident that occurred at the shop one day when a buddy and fellow worker was attempting to get a tire to seat, or pop out, if preferred term, on a Craiger aluminum mag wheel, on a 1967 Ford Mustang fastback. Tommy, the guys name, cautiously kept adding a couple pounds at a time. I’ll never forget the number when the wheel failed. We were all standing back and offering moral support when it happened at 86 LBs. when it blew. Tommy hit the floor like he had been shot and when he stood up it was immediately obvious he was hurt.
Long story short, he suffered permanent damage to his face, left eye and hearing loss in both ears.
I guess I’m trying to tell anyone who is willing to listen this. Any time you have to use over 50-60 pounds of air to seat a tire, start using caution and take every preventing measurement possible. A tire cage preferably and position your hand out of harms way.
Just an olds guys over caution maybe.

Offline SIR REAL ED

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #80 on: April 11, 2021, 10:09:19 PM »
The incident I’m going to tell y’all about is in no way pro or con to anyone’s believes on the subject of air pressure to get a tire to “pop out” or seat.
I worked at a tire shop for several years when I was in high school. I’ll never forget an incident that occurred at the shop one day when a buddy and fellow worker was attempting to get a tire to seat, or pop out, if preferred term, on a Craiger aluminum mag wheel, on a 1967 Ford Mustang fastback. Tommy, the guys name, cautiously kept adding a couple pounds at a time. I’ll never forget the number when the wheel failed. We were all standing back and offering moral support when it happened at 86 LBs. when it blew. Tommy hit the floor like he had been shot and when he stood up it was immediately obvious he was hurt.
Long story short, he suffered permanent damage to his face, left eye and hearing loss in both ears.
I guess I’m trying to tell anyone who is willing to listen this. Any time you have to use over 50-60 pounds of air to seat a tire, start using caution and take every preventing measurement possible. A tire cage preferably and position your hand out of harms way.
Just an olds guys over caution maybe.

Amen.  and the tire does not have to leave the rim to be dangerous.  I have a friend who almost got killed when the bottom of the ATV tire he was changing popped out sending the tire and wheel upwards like a rocket.  After almost decapitating him, the tire/wheel assembly bounced off the ceiling of his garage.

We used to sometimes wrap chains around the split rim/tire in case the locking ring came off.  The chain trick would not have helped my friend.  The chain merely would have been part of the tire/wheel projectile.
"There's two kinds of people in the world; those for whom no explanation is necessary, and those for whom no explanation is possible."

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #81 on: April 11, 2021, 10:23:46 PM »
Amen.  and the tire does not have to leave the rim to be dangerous.  I have a friend who almost got killed when the bottom of the ATV tire he was changing popped out sending the tire and wheel upwards like a rocket.  After almost decapitating him, the tire/wheel assembly bounced off the ceiling of his garage.

We used to sometimes wrap chains around the split rim/tire in case the locking ring came off.  The chain trick would not have helped my friend.  The chain merely would have been part of the tire/wheel projectile.
Yes sir Sir Ed. The tire cage became a government mandate in tire shops due to several deaths due to that D@€£ split rim decapitating more than one worker!

Online Rich A

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #82 on: April 11, 2021, 10:25:25 PM »
Words you really don't want to hear in many contexts: "Crap, that never happened before!"

Rich A

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #83 on: April 11, 2021, 10:33:22 PM »
The shop that mounted a run flat car tire on my rear wheel said: ‘it fought us a bit’. The sidewalls of a run flat car tire are a bit stout.

Offline kballowe

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #84 on: April 12, 2021, 08:13:46 AM »
HA !  We've had some of those "stubborn" tires.  The ones that give me the most trouble are the tubeless MT90 (130/90 x 16)  frickin' four-ply bias sidewall.  Being that skinny, ya'd think they would be happy.  They're not.  Dang beads won't seat !

The first thing to do is get a tire, and then go and get the $9.99 galactic standard hair dryer at WalMart.  Alternatively, you can use your wife's hair dryer - at your own risk.




You're gonna need a temperature thingy.
These cheap meat thermometers aren't all that accurate, but it's fun to watch the temperature go up up up - just the same.




Then make a custom tire oven out of a couple of cardboard box.
Add a some small blocks to get the tire up off of the workbench and to get some airflow.
Cut a hole in the top and insert the hair dryer. 

Bake at 130/140 for half an hour, or until wife wants to know "what's burning"




In the summer, we just lay them on the asphalt driveway and then turn them a couple of times.



« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 08:16:55 AM by kballowe »

Offline Tom

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #85 on: April 12, 2021, 12:51:00 PM »
I like it.   :thumb:  Ditto on the narrow bias ply tires.   Had similar problems with seating the beads on shitty American tires (Firestone & Goodyear).  Must have been the formula for those tires.  They must have been using the same ingredients as their car tires.  I had a bad German Continental tire and a number of lousy Italian Pirellis too. 

A lot soapy water, ratchet tie down and a dead blow plastic hammer always helps with sufficient air pressure.  I usually leave them in the sun too.  We're about 190 miles southeast of Honolulu.  The lowest air temp at the house is 72F almost always.
From the Deep Deep South out in left field.  There are no stupid questions.  There are however stupid people asking questions.  🤣, this includes me.  😉

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From the Deep Deep South out in left field.  There are no stupid questions.  There are however stupid people asking questions.  🤣, this includes me.  😉

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #87 on: April 12, 2021, 06:57:20 PM »

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Re: Beaten by a F***ing Tire!
« Reply #88 on: April 12, 2021, 07:02:43 PM »
Must be true it's on the internet.   :grin: :grin: :grin:  🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

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