Author Topic: Marelli 15M ECU - Understanding the correlation between the different parameters  (Read 18417 times)

Offline pauldaytona

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The scale values are not to be changed. just give in round figures What is the error you get? Do get latest XDF from our download site
Paul

Daytona 1225, Stelvio 1151





Download Guzzidiag here: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

Offline scra99tch

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Whats the old Quota V2.28 XDF entail?
1974 Eldorado
2007 California Vintage

Offline pauldaytona

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Whats the old Quota V2.28 XDF entail?

 All 15m maps from guzzi have their parameters on the same addresses, only there is a Quota map that has partly different addresses, so for that one is a separate xdf.

 What is you map ID?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2014, 04:02:19 PM by pauldaytona »
Paul

Daytona 1225, Stelvio 1151





Download Guzzidiag here: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

Offline scra99tch

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M_15M_61600.428.04_ 3D02GQ0I__GUZZI_QUO TA_1100__MY01°.bin

I loaded the Old Quota XDF and the numbers were everywhere.  I checked with the regular XDF and it checked out.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2014, 04:11:09 PM by scra99tch »
1974 Eldorado
2007 California Vintage

Wildguzzi.com


Offline Meinolf

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Hi,

I am currently trying to modify my engine Temp Trim but it will not let me save the values I entered.  Does this have something to do with them being a Linked Scale?

I didn't have any problems saving the changes of the values in the (air temperature and air pressure) trim tables. But, lacking factual knowledge which values would be better than the existing ones in the engine temperature trim table, I haven't touched those.

And why does it say "nicht korreckt" on my Scale Engine Temp (8bit) table?

I haven't seen this error message (nicht korrekt = not correct) during any of my changes to maps and tables, but I would follow Paul's advice not to change the scale. That's an area which is not fully understood yet.

Cheers
Meinolf

Offline scra99tch

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Reason I am puzzled about the Engine Temp Trim values are the differences in the 4 maps I have for a V11, California S, V11 Sport, Quota  1100ES.  The biggest differences are Below 20 degrees Celsius, and then they all seem to level out and stay on the positive Y axis for Trim Except the two Quota maps I have which lean them selves out the hotter they get. 
1974 Eldorado
2007 California Vintage

Offline Skeeve

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... I started wondering why a 230kg, 80PS, 1liter V11-engine consumes more fuel than a 1400kg, 80PS, 1liter car during a comparable driving situation. The bike having the advantage of better aerodynamics also.

Bikes have atrocious aerodynamics. Unless the engine you're comparing to is in a pickup truck, you can almost guarantee that the bike has no advantage aerodynamically-speaking...

Thanks for the interesting posts/thread!

Offline Meinolf

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Hi Skeeve,

beg to differ.

Cw, on the average motorcycle, certainly is worse. But the cross section area is much smaller. Resulting in lower wind resistance.

http://www.kfz-tech.de/Engl/Formelsammlung/Luftwiderstand.htm

Cheers
Meinolf

Offline Skeeve

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Sorry, was taking the "aerodynamics" to reference Cd, which on even fully-faired bikes is typically higher than all but the worst cars. But yes, the cross-section is much lower, which is part of why bikes still manage to get decent fuel mileage despite their horrible aeros. :)

A good example of this is the chin fairing found on a lot of the full-faired bikes from the 80s & 90s: almost every one will experience a decrease in drag by removing it!  ;D


Punch

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What you were doing is very interesting.
An injector is not like a resistor as it has a coil with inductance.
The time from pulse start to fully open will vary with voltage.

Many years ago I was using Cliff Jefferies MyECU = My15M
In the file for that ECU there was line that adjusted injector duration with respect to battery voltage.
I have deleted all the files about hat ECU, but maybe I have a very old backup CD somewhere.

I expect if you still have the test bed, you will see the duration change with supply voltage.

Did you ever discover how the acceleration enrichment map worked?
I am going to log the 15M in my Duc 900SSie for analysis to remap so I want to discover what the conditions are for it to be used.

I know it is a map of TP vs RPM, but there must be something that looks at the rate of change of RPM over time and/or rate of change of TP and RPM over time.

Richard

Hi,

as to the first question, not really. I am measuring injection signal duration with a scope at whatever settings the MAP and sensors have, but have found discrepancies between the times shown by GuzziDiag and the measured ones. I need to validate this on the motorcycle itself. The actual injectors may well have different times than the load resistors I am using on the testbed.

And yes, the idea is to use the testbed to fill in the blank areas in the understanding of how everything interacts. And be sure of one thing, everything is interacting :-)

Cheers
Meinolf

Offline Meinolf

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Hi Richard,

I expect if you still have the test bed, you will see the duration change with supply voltage.

Did you ever discover how the acceleration enrichment map worked? I know it is a map of TP vs RPM, but there must be something that looks at the rate of change of RPM over time and/or rate of change of TP and RPM over time.

I stumbled across this old thread and realized that I haven't answered your questions. My apologies for that.

The deep dive into the workings of the 15M is continuing, but most of the findings are presented and discussed in the German Guzzi forum in either of these http://www.guzzi-forum.de/Forum/index.php?board=19.0 or http://www.guzzi-forum.de/Forum/index.php?board=76.0. Registration is required!

Google translates sufficiently good enough into English to get the drift of the discussions.

Topics explored and discussed include:
- Ignition and fuel trim tables for engine and air temperature and barometric pressure
- CO setting and trim
- Duty cycle of injectors and their utilization in the V11
- Acceleration table
- Air/engine temperature sensors and their influence
- Air filter snorkels, influence on air flow and
- Idle setting and synchronization
- Self-adaption of TPS settings in idle and WOT
- Sharing the map(s) based on above investigations
- ....

Recently I spent a lot of time investigating the acceleration map. While at first glance the function seemed simple, values from the acceleration map being added to the base and offset map when opening the throttle, further measurements showed that this doesn't seem to be true. Modifying the values and measuring the effects leads me to believe that the acceleration map values act more like factors, influencing both acceleration and deceleration injection values. However, this is very much work in progress. I will report more if there's any interest, and I am happy to share what I learn (or believe I learned). Several members here are testing my BINs, mostly with good results.

Cheers
Meinolf

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