1989 Mille inquiry

[tobydmv]

Hey guys, I just sold my 2002 lemans and looking to get back on a guzz.  What do you know about a '89 Mille?  Its the wire wheeled model.  I've talked to the owner and he said its a poor shifting bike with a decent oil leak at the sump.  Great huh?  I'm a bit worried this could mean clutch problems and possibly a leak in the gearbox section.  Of course it could just be the sump gasket needs replacing and the clutch cable is loose.  Any former owners have an opinion?  Any recalls or known issues like shift return springs breaking?  I'm looking for a nice comfortable short range touring bike w carbs.  I dont know if the mille has a heavier flywheel, diff size wheels, and what all else.  The 2002 Lemans was an amazing bike but the FI gave me fits.  I enjoy working on bikes so i'm not worried about doing a little work.

Thanks,
Toby

[Chuck in Indiana]

It's a small valve big block with small carbs. Big steel fuel tank. Decent brakes and suspension. It'll make you a good scooter.

[JoeW]

Has the previous owner driven another Guzzi? If he hasn't, it could be a normal shifting 5 speed. The shift springs can break on any 4 or 5 speed, if it were broken it would barley shift. Leaking sump gasket, maybe, what ever it is, you're rolling the dice. Make an offer on the worse possible issue, rear main seal, clutch and hub, reseal trans, replace shift spring and shim the shift drum. 6 to 8 hours labor 400.00 to 500.00 in parts.

[Triple Jim]

I can't tell where you are, since you don't have a location in your profile, but is this the red one in NC?  If so, a friend of mine recently looked at it.  It looked like a great deal, except the clutch slipped and it leaked oil from that area.  I suggested the possibility that the rear main seal could be leaking oil onto the clutch.  Not the end of the world by any means, but my friend wasn't ready to start his Guzzi experience with a largish job like that.  Someone willing to do the work will end up with a great Guzzi at a decent price.

I have an '89 Mille, and even though I get temped to try to get a LeMans or other "desireable" Guzzi once in a while, I'd hate to lose the 250-300 miles before reserve and great low end torque that I enjoy now.  On a long trip last year I actually went about 315 miles without getting to reserve.  I was between gas stations out in the country and kept thinking I was going to get stranded, but I pulled up to the pump before having to turn the valve.

The Mille has two 18" wheels, by the way, and standard tires are 110/90-18 and 120/90-18.

[tobydmv]

I can't tell where you are, since you don't have a location in your profile, but is this the red one in NC?  If so, a friend of mine recently looked at it.  It looked like a great deal, except the clutch slipped and it leaked oil from that area.  I suggested the possibility that the rear main seal could be leaking oil onto the clutch.  Not the end of the world by any means, but my friend wasn't ready to start his Guzzi experience with a largish job like that.  Someone willing to do the work will end up with a great Guzzi at a decent price.

I have an '89 Mille, and even though I get temped to try to get a LeMans or other "desireable" Guzzi once in a while, I'd hate to lose the 250-300 miles before reserve and great low end torque that I enjoy now.  On a long trip last year I actually went about 315 miles without getting to reserve.  I was between gas stations out in the country and kept thinking I was going to get stranded, but I pulled up to the pump before having to turn the valve.

Yes it is the very same and that is what I was afraid of.  I have never been inside the lower end of a guzzi.  Anybody have an idea about how much work that is?

[Triple Jim]

We're not talking about the lower end, but rather removing the transmission and working on the clutch and rear main seal if I'm right about that being the problem.  My friend did not mention poor shifting, and has never ridden a Guzzi before, so I doubt if there's anything wrong with the transmission.  I wasn't there for the test ride though, so if you're interested, keep what I'm saying in the back of your head, but go inspect it for yourself before assuming anything.

JoeW said above that it's 6-8 hours of work and a few hundred bucks.  For that, you'd have a new clutch and rear main seal.  Depending on the serial  number of the engine, you could have the 2mm deep clutch splines too, so it would be worth getting the parts to change to the newer 4mm deep type at the same time.  My Mille has the 2mm version, but has been trouble free so far.

[fotoguzzi]

sniff that oil leak, if it's gear lube your clutch push rod seals went kaput.. and that would be more likely to contaminate the clutch plates.. you can do the o-ring fix insitu with the swing arm off. flush the bell housing with mineral spirits a few times and be good to go.. that would be a fairly easy fix. how many miles?

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

sniff that oil leak, if it's gear lube your clutch push rod seals went kaput.. and that would be more likely to contaminate the clutch plates.. you can do the o-ring fix insitu with the swing arm off. flush the bell housing with mineral spirits a few times and be good to go.. that would be a fairly easy fix. how many miles?

Agreed. Hard for an engine rear main seal leak to contaminate the clutch, oil usually just leaks out the weep hole, sometimes after being flung out by the flywheel.   

[bmc5733946]

My now standard Mille reply:

The Mille's Achilles heels are it's horrible seat and overly stiff throttle, Rich Maund can build a much better seat and has done so for me, the throttle can be overcome with a throttle lock (Vanda cruise on mine) and or lighter throttle springs (check Guzziology).  My Mille will cruise all day at more than the posted speed on any road in the U.S.A.  Things that may need attention include timing chain tensioner, mufflers that tended to rust through prematurely (late model Cali mufflers are a direct replacement), suspension system, brakes need braided hoses to give their best.  I love mine and will not sell it.

Brian

[redrider]

My 89 is on youtube. 89milleGT channel. Good, solid fun. Be wary of the rocker oil feed hoses at the banjo fitting. Mine broke and the replacement was swaged braid on a smooth hose end. The second replacement has a barbed end with no problems. New main rear seal is just time, no difficulties. I re-shimmed the shift drum and the difference is phenomenally better feel and precision. Ported and polished, ridden on Sundays. It was also my daily ride for over two years and a few trips as well.

[Triple Jim]

This Mille in question is reported to have new mufflers.

[charlie b]

It's the T5's big brother :)

I would count on rear main and clutch.  Mine had a small leak when I got it so rear main was replaced but clutch has been fine (PO had already replaced it).  While you have it open you can see what needs replacing and sealing.  As a minimum replace the clutch pushrod seals, rear main, gaskets for oil returns, and smear the rear cam plug (?) with JB Weld.

If you really want it nice, then when it is opened up do the tranny.  Clean, shim it up, and put in new seals.

Yes, it has the 'heavy' flywheel.

The PO on mine replaced the front and rear suspension (FAC's, Wirth Progressives and rear shocks), cam chain tensioner, and installed steel brake lines.  I've replaced mufflers, left and right switchgear (which also means new maste cylinder and clutch lever) and it has a Thomaselli throttle on it now.  Rich Maund did a seat for me, which has been changed to a solo seat.  I do have a throttle lock on it.  I've also redone some of the wiring to suit my custom dash and lighting.

They do eat up the miles.  I put the top half of an SPIII fairing on mine and love it.  Will be putting another 1500 miles on it next weekend.

[Triple Jim]

I put the lightest of the three available carb slide springs in mine, and have never had a sticking problem.  The throttle is fine on multi-hundred mile rides now.

[grebmrof]

To the original poster, drop me a PM, I have an '89 Mille...  BTW, I think the stock seat is very comfortable - shifts typically clunky sometimes and the throttle is a bit stiff (carb springs).

[redrider90]

We're not talking about the lower end, but rather removing the transmission and working on the clutch and rear main seal if I'm right about that being the problem.  My friend did not mention poor shifting, and has never ridden a Guzzi before, so I doubt if there's anything wrong with the transmission.  I wasn't there for the test ride though, so if you're interested, keep what I'm saying in the back of your head, but go inspect it for yourself before assuming anything.

JoeW said above that it's 6-8 hours of work and a few hundred bucks.  For that, you'd have a new clutch and rear main seal.  Depending on the serial  number of the engine, you could have the 2mm deep clutch splines too, so it would be worth getting the parts to change to the newer 4mm deep type at the same time.  My Mille has the 2mm version, but has been trouble free so far.

Jim,
Didn't he mention a slipping clutch. Could  one man's slipping clutch could be another man's poor shifting?

[Triple Jim]

Jim,
Didn't he mention a slipping clutch. Could  one man's slipping clutch could be another man's poor shifting?

I suppose anything is possible.  My friend definitely knows what a slipping clutch feels like though.  That would mean the seller thinks a slipping clutch is poor shifting.  Revving interpreted as not getting out of the previous gear?  In any case, a test ride will answer that question.

[nc43bsa]

I can't tell where you are, since you don't have a location in your profile, but is this the red one in NC?

Was it at EuroBike in Raleigh last week?  The red & black one?

[Triple Jim]

Was it at EuroBike in Raleigh last week?  The red & black one?

Yes, that's the one, as I understand it.  The red Mille with the red frame as stock, with non-stock black additions.

[Vagrant]

great bike and the seller thinks it's a piece of junk. buy it cheap, change the oil & filter & pan gasket. flush the bell housing twice and ride it. if it does slip in 1000 miles then a simple O ring job most likely will fix it. only weakness is the forks are too small for really fast tight corners IMHO.
unbelievable fuel mileage.

[Triple Jim]

only weakness is the forks are too small for really fast tight corners IMHO.

Mine has had a fork brace since I bought it, and I'm sure the fork springs have been changed.  The handling is really good, especially in tight corners.

[daiglesbagels]

Here is a link to a video of the bike from a cold start and after its been idling a few minutes. The bike was purchased from NC Steve about a year and a half ago.

Walk around / Cold Start - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoEgflk_6cI

Idling for 3 mins - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZTO_vBjCY8

[fotoguzzi]

that Mille looks pretty nice, what's the asking price?  course it won't be a V11.. just sayin.

[Triple Jim]

That start and idle is the same as my Mille, and probably similar to other Guzzis of that era.  I start with the enricher on and ride gently up the road about a mile, slowly releasing the lever as I go.  By then it'll idle OK, although still on the slow side until I go another couple miles.

[tobydmv]

Heres a bit more info,

"little bit of oil weeping out of the flywheel inspection hole...Looks like gear oil"

Seller is a really nice guy who is being honest.

asking price is $2800

[redrider90]

great bike and the seller thinks it's a piece of junk. buy it cheap, change the oil & filter & pan gasket. flush the bell housing twice and ride it. if it does slip in 1000 miles then a simple O ring job most likely will fix it. only weakness is the forks are too small for really fast tight corners IMHO.
unbelievable fuel mileage.

Progressive wirths with bitubos made all the world of difference on mine. Although I never added a fork brace i am sure that would be icing in the cake. But don't get fooled by that talk of the weak front end. All those 80 and early 90's Tonti's have weak front forks. The Mille is a virtual clone of the 850 T-5 (except for the 16" tires of that era.). Guzzi moved to 18 tires on the Milles and did not upgrade the forks until they built the 1000S and the Strada.  As for T-3s what were was holding up there front ends.  It's and east and economical fix. This a new Norge thread right now on the weak handling of the early Norge.

[Two Checks]

Oil leaking out the flywheel inspection hole?
That's one hell of a leak!

The forks are a bit different on the inside from earlier models, they have two springs per leg of differnt rates.
If I stab the brakes onthe SPII they will bottom.
Cold start and idle improves with bigger jets. They are pretty lean.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Oil leaking out the flywheel inspection hole?
That's one hell of a leak!

The forks are a bit different on the inside from earlier models, they have two springs per leg of differnt rates.
If I stab the brakes onthe SPII they will bottom.
Cold start and idle improves with bigger jets. They are pretty lean.

If the transmission is over filled, it'll leak enough to foul the clutch. That's *probably* not it if he's a Guzzi Guy, but it wouldn't hurt to check.

[Two Checks]

But to leak out the inspection holeit would have to fill the bellhousing to the level ofthe hole!   

[redrider90]

Oil leaking out the flywheel inspection hole?
That's one hell of a leak!

The forks are a bit different on the inside from earlier models, they have two springs per leg of differnt rates.
If I stab the brakes onthe SPII they will bottom.
Cold start and idle improves with bigger jets. They are pretty lean.

According to Stien Denise there is a series Mille GT 1 and a series Mille GT 2 which use different springs. Both overlap in 1990 which is strange. I guess when the changed from GT 1 to GT 2 . My 90 had the dual springs but the replacement are single springs. What is weird MG shows the  this spring  Part Number: 300082315 with length of 448 mm but the 30082317 with a 445 mm length and neither one is listed for the Mille on MG site  but on Stein Deinse lists the 300832315 as a Mille series 1 on Stein Denise 448 mm.    Stein Deinse lists the 30082317 as Mille series 2 as 445 mm. . So the newer model is 3 mm shorter?

[Triple Jim]

But to leak out the inspection holeit would have to fill the bellhousing to the level ofthe hole!   

Unless it's being slung around by the clutch, and the plug doesn't fit snugly, or it's leaking out the gasket, etc..