Creeping Techno Fluff on New Vehicles

[leafman60]

;-T

There was a thread here a while back where someone pointed out a vehicle commercial where the driver needed backup camera, parking assist, lane departure warning, emergency stopping assist, etc. . . 

I'd like to see someone do a spoof commercial where the announcer (Mike Rowe or Morgan Freeman) throws heat on the viewer by saying "you're really too much of an idiot to be behind the wheel, so save yourself and others - from yourself - with the all new ______ ."

Ditto

[leafman60]

Honestly with the new cars, most of the technology is to the point now where it's not likely to fail, at least not the stuff that has been around for a while. I don't see the need for all the things like remote start, keyless entry and tailgates that close themselves. Those are things I wouldn't buy, but those that I must have are ABS and airbags. When it comes to safety those things pay for themselves.

On motorcycles... K.I.S.S.

Yes, I hope that's true.  My experience with modern GM cars has been great. There are two issues about all the Techno Fluff, reliability and necessity.  Even if these things are reliable and don't cause trouble, I don't desire or want many of them.

The scary thing for me is that, after learning about them and using them simply because they are there, will I begin to depend on them !?

[pyoungbl]

I meet a group for coffee 'most mornings.  We sit outside and it's all too easy to notice folks attempting to parallel park.  Sometimes it takes six or eight attempts to get a car parked and all too often one wheel is up on the curb.  Our city has instituted 'back in' angle parking on a couple streets.  Once again, this appears to be beyond the skill level of many drivers.  Driving, it would appear, has become an incidental part of eating, texting, cell phone use, and general entertainment.  Maybe all the techno-fluff is there to make it possible to do all that non-driving stuff.

Peter Y.

[blackcat]

We sit outside and it's all too easy to notice folks attempting to parallel park.  Sometimes it takes six or eight attempts to get a car parked and all too often one wheel is up on the curb. 
Peter Y.

They need to learn how to "braille park" as per most NYC driver's.

[Penderic]

Then you have the real clowns behind the steering wheel....

[dilligaf]

I meet a group for coffee 'most mornings.  We sit outside and it's all too easy to notice folks attempting to parallel park.  Sometimes it takes six or eight attempts to get a car parked and all too often one wheel is up on the curb.  Our city has instituted 'back in' angle parking on a couple streets.  Once again, this appears to be beyond the skill level of many drivers.  Driving, it would appear, has become an incidental part of eating, texting, cell phone use, and general entertainment.  Maybe all the techno-fluff is there to make it possible to do all that non-driving stuff.

Peter Y.

:( I can't remember the last time I parallel parked.  Not sure but if I ever have to I suspect I will be sort of :-[  .  :BEER:
Matt

[Aaron D.]

Parking has ever been an issue, Ive seen curbed wheels and blown sidewalls since the '60s.

What'as different now is OUR generation is getting stiff necks and can't turn our heads far enough to look over our shoulder while backing up.

In the good old days we used mirrors and our ears. Now we want cameras because we can have them!

Anywho, I still double-clutch my Audi on downshifts...

[dilligaf]

What'as different now is OUR generation is getting stiff necks and can't turn our heads far enough to look over our shoulder while backing up.

So true.  :(  :BEER:
Matt

[Lannis]

There are two issues about all the Techno Fluff, reliability and necessity.  

That word "necessity" ... we generally use it when we get lazy and spoiled.

The '53 Buick my mother used to drive (and I stood on the front seat) had:

No seat belts, no air conditioning, no power steering, no automatic transmission, no power-assist brakes, no airbags, a clutch with about an 18" throw, three-on-the-column, no radio, no cell phone, no bluetooth, no windshield washer, no cameras, no locking ignition, no gas cap release, a banjo steering wheel the size of a barrel head, no power-adjustable mirror, no rear defroster, no night-position rear-view mirror, no adjustable seat.   Tires would last 10,000 miles, an engine that went 100,000 miles without a rebuild was almost unheard of, and changing points and spark plugs was part of a regular tune-up.

She and her whole generation prospered.   I grew up with it, and understood it to be a nice luxury.   So is any of the stuff above a "necessity"?   I suppose it's kind of like defining "Old" or "Rich".   It's all relative .....

Lannis

[Orange Guzzi]

Lots of commercial delivery vehicles and associated labor will be soon replaced by robotic drivers/robot truck systems/+software in order to cut costs.

And govt/big business will be tempted to standardize the road technology to make it safer for the robots and not us.

I see Inter-Vehicle wi-fi data sharing, local weather, traffic info and govt fee logging systems, and dozens of little cameras- built into all future public licensed vehicles! For insurance reasons, cough cough, vehicle data would include gps info, and maybe some intrusive intervention, examples = age restriction throttle control, alcohol pre-driving testing, parking and restricted area warnings and penalties  .....vehicle taught behavior modification!

The robots win!  :(

Humans ride motorcycles? Hah! That would be just too dangerous!

Truck drivers may be replaced, but who is going to replace the idiots at the terminals, loading docks and security gates that drivers have to deal with everyday?

The days of the Pinto are long gone.  The 70's seems like in my life time when the big push for bells and whistles started. 

If you are in a wreck, be sure to retrieve the hard drive before the attorneys for the plaintiff does. 

[drums4money]

I guess that ultimately the improvements that yield true relability/performance improvements are inedpendent from the info-tainment & quasi-safety farkles that are increasingly becoming standard rather than options.  Seems to me that many who could go without the cost of the option may prefer that route.  Its easy to increase the OTD vehicle price when the options are fewer & the "Standard Ammenity" list is a mile long.  I rekon the manufacturers arent dumb. They've figured out how to force me to buy crap i dont want.

[leafman60]

  Driving, it would appear, has become an incidental part of eating, texting, cell phone use, and general entertainment.  Maybe all the techno-fluff is there to make it possible to do all that non-driving stuff.

Peter Y.

Ditto!

[Mike Crenshaw]

I can't attest to the validity of this report but it seems timely to this discussion. https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/gm-ford-others-want-working-own-car-illegal-160000229.html
 The upshot is that major auto manufacturers are moving to having owners agree to license the technology rather than actually own the vehicle.  The purpose is to discourage owners from performing their own maintenance and also absolving the manufacturers from any liability as a result of an owners modifications.  

Hopefully I've purchased my last pickup truck.  And of late, I'm having more fun working on and riding my old airheads.

[Howard R]

This is really pretty easy to understand, I figured it out a long time ago.  The sum total allotment of intelligence remains constant while the population continues to increase.  They are selling vehicles to people who have truly become too stupid to drive, so the car now has to do it for them.  One of my favorites, always good for a laugh, is the "blind spot" camera.  If you know how to adjust the mirrors, you DON'T HAVE a freaking blind spot!

/RANT

Howard

[Arizona Wayne]

This is really pretty easy to understand, I figured it out a long time ago.  The sum total allotment of intelligence remains constant while the population continues to increase.  They are selling vehicles to people who have truly become too stupid to drive, so the car now has to do it for them.  One of my favorites, always good for a laugh, is the "blind spot" camera.  If you know how to adjust the mirrors, you DON'T HAVE a freaking blind spot!

/RANT

Howard

WRONG.........oh I'm supposed to adjust my mirrors every time I want to see around every possible part of my vehicle?   Are you fricken' CRAZY?    There's always blind spots between your eyes and mirrors, especially if you are driving a van with few windows.   Even on my Rav4 with good mirrors there's a blind spot between the rear of it and my left side if I want to get in the left lane.  If I don't turn my head and momentarily look out to the left I will come over on a vehicle of comparable size and they will let me know!  ???  And while I'm looking in their direction if the vehicle right in front of me hit's it's brakes unexpectedly by me I will probably rearend them.  ~;

[Lannis]

This is really pretty easy to understand, I figured it out a long time ago.  The sum total allotment of intelligence remains constant while the population continues to increase.  They are selling vehicles to people who have truly become too stupid to drive, so the car now has to do it for them.  One of my favorites, always good for a laugh, is the "blind spot" camera.  If you know how to adjust the mirrors, you DON'T HAVE a freaking blind spot!

/RANT

Howard

I'll tell a little secret here ... "Backup Cameras" are really good things, and I've bought a cheap one to hang off of my Festiva.

The reason I'm particularly sensitive to it is because I'm always backing out of places where little kids are running around, including toddlers.   

And I personally know two guys, responsible, loving fathers, who accidentally backed over their own children and killed them.    They left the house to go somewhere, and a child (playing a game of hide-and-seek, I suppose) ran out of the yard or the house unbeknownst to anyone and hid behind the car.   There was no way to see them unless you got out and walked around past where you had JUST walked ... UNLESS you had a low-mounted backup camera ....

Might not apply to someone who isn't around kids much, but they can be anywhere in a parking lot in public.

Lannis

[screamday]

I'll tell a little secret here ... "Backup Cameras" are really good things, and I've bought a cheap one to hang off of my Festiva.

The reason I'm particularly sensitive to it is because I'm always backing out of places where little kids are running around, including toddlers.   

And I personally know two guys, responsible, loving fathers, who accidentally backed over their own children and killed them.    They left the house to go somewhere, and a child (playing a game of hide-and-seek, I suppose) ran out of the yard or the house unbeknownst to anyone and hid behind the car.   There was no way to see them unless you got out and walked around past where you had JUST walked ... UNLESS you had a low-mounted backup camera ....

Might not apply to someone who isn't around kids much, but they can be anywhere in a parking lot in public.

Lannis

I like the back-up camera on my pick-up. Because I put a camper shell on the bed it's hard to see what's behind by simply looking over your shoulder or checking your mirrors. It also comes in really handy when hooking up a trailer. I don't mind the technology much. I mostly ignore it and just drive the way I usually do......like everyone out on the roads is out to kill me.

[Paradiso]

I typically scoff at some of what I call Techno Fluff on new motorcycles, particularly my former brand of choice, BMW.

I've just been reading the owner's handbook for a F800s.  There is page after about reading codes on the display but, as far as I could see, it didn't properly cover an oil and filter change.  To some degree it's a corporate decision to make as much income over the lifetime of a bike as possible.  Make people dependent on dealerships and it's a guaranteed source of income.  I've always seen service indicators and 'nag' lights that BMW use in cars and bikes in the same way.

[Arizona Wayne]

I have nothing against adding a backup gizmo like a rear camera to your rig if you find it necessary, but buy a new rig with a bunch of other stuff you don't need to get the installed RVM?   :D

Our current car/truck came with elect. windows,  but let me tell you a true story that happened to me in the `50s when my father fell asleep @ the wheel in a Cadillac and we ended up upside down in mud with a full tank of gas...........none of the elect. windows would open!   Luckily some Mexican workers were nearby and opened a door for us from outside so we could get out.   :bow

[ibis1]

I truly "feel for" the folks I know who can't go it alone on vehicles. I would rather "roll my own" and am fortunate to have a wife who not only tolerates it but in fact encourages it. My newest acquisition is for her and in fact pleaded for by her. It'll be an MG with almost no motive nor electrical components left from England.

Her Land Rover Discovery is being supplanted by a beautiful, resurrected 1973 Scout. She loves the look but really appreciates the simplicity over the "Soccer-momed" Land Rover.

I view more and more of my friends and family as being essentially addicted for life to car payments as the vehicles seldom last significantly beyond the payment schedule anymore. Each year brings more complexity, whether foisted upon the consumer through the manufacturers by nanny-government or demanded by the soccer-moms and soccer-mom-men of the U.S.

I wouldn't be building the Scout for Sarah if I could get her a TDi Defender but alas, the nanies won't let them in and when they do, the "Real Housewives" will demand they be reduced to rolling techno-pillows dependent upon umbilicals to keep running.

*-*End Rant*-*

Todd.

Land Rover will have some diesels for 2016 and the Defender is coming back as well, although I'm not sure when. If you don't mind the paperwork, you can bring a "New" diesel Defender into this country. They use early vin plates and totally rebuild the vehicle from the ground up with new components. They are very nice vehicles.  :BEER:

[Arizona Wayne]

Land Rover will have some diesels for 2016 and the Defender is coming back as well, although I'm not sure when. If you don't mind the paperwork, you can bring a "New" diesel Defender into this country. They use early vin plates and totally rebuild the vehicle from the ground up with new components. They are very nice vehicles.  :BEER:

Unless you do a lot of towing, what's the point of going diesel over gasoline when gas is quite a bit cheaper now in price per gallon?  ???

[ibis1]

Unless you do a lot of towing, what's the point of going diesel over gasoline when gas is quite a bit cheaper now in price per gallon?  ???

cruzziguzzi said he would like a diesel Defender. I did not ask why. Some people just prefer diesels over gas.  :BEER:

[Lannis]

Land Rover will have some diesels for 2016 and the Defender is coming back as well, although I'm not sure when. If you don't mind the paperwork, you can bring a "New" diesel Defender into this country.

If the USDOT identifies it based on the VIN as more than 25 years old, there really isn't any paperwork - just one form for the DOT and one for the EPA certifying that it's old and exempt.   Better be sure it's a good ID and good VIN for the vehicle attached to them and not something flagged as "gray market", or it will get scrapped at the customs impound ... they're onto most of the tricks folks try to use to get nice European cars into the USA.

If it's < 25 years old, no amount of paperwork is going to get it in!

Good idea if it works .....

Lannis

[Howard R]

WRONG.........oh I'm supposed to adjust my mirrors every time I want to see around every possible part of my vehicle?   Are you fricken' CRAZY?    There's always blind spots between your eyes and mirrors, especially if you are driving a van with few windows.   Even on my Rav4 with good mirrors there's a blind spot between the rear of it and my left side if I want to get in the left lane.  If I don't turn my head and momentarily look out to the left I will come over on a vehicle of comparable size and they will let me know!  ???  And while I'm looking in their direction if the vehicle right in front of me hit's it's brakes unexpectedly by me I will probably rearend them.  ~;

I'm talking about adjusting the side mirrors.  If it's done right, you can, for instance when passing a car on the highway (in the lane to your right) see the front fender through the window and the back fender in the mirror, simultaneously.  Then, just before the car passes out of the side mirror it appears in the inside mirror.  Same can be done with the left mirror.  My dad taught me this when I was learning to drive, and I have applied it successfully to a 1956 Ford, a 2014 Subaru, and everything in between, including a couple of panel vans with no side windows.  Start by moving the mirrors "out" a lot more than most people have them.  You might be able to find a car in a parking lot that you can get in the "right" position to help set the mirrors.  You likely won't be able to see your own fenders, so what.  If you need to see your own car to back up in close quarters just lean you head over until you see what you need.  Get the mirrors set and get used to using them before you really "need" them and it will become second nature.  I NEVER change lanes, car or bike, without a quick head check.  If half a second gets you into trouble with a car in front of you, you were following WAY too close to begin with.   P:)

I can see a use for a rear view camera, as others have mentioned.  I know someone who has a pickup with a slide-in camper with one of those cameras and the view screen attached to the (now useless) inside mirror.  They sometimes tow a large cargo trailer with the same rig, and simply move the camera to the back of the trailer.