V9 engine?

[Jurgen]

Does anyone have any information on the new V9 engine?  Is it a small block or big block?  If it is truly NEW, (someone mentioned that it is not a further development of the small block 750) I wonder if they got away from the Heron head to allow for further development.  Just wondering.  Jurgen

[rocker59]

It's definitely small block based. How many new parts are there? Well those details aren't out yet.

[Kev m]

If we are to believe the reports (and they are from generally very believable people) it's a small block, hemi head, 2V/cylinder motor that bumps hp a conservative 10% but also seems to lower torque a hair.

[Vasco DG]

Where did you get Hemi head from Kev? They're a horrid, dirty, inefficient thing.

Pete

[rocker59]

Where did you get Hemi head from Kev? They're a horrid, dirty, inefficient thing.

Pete

Our friend Dogwalker has reported it.  Says he has friends at the foundry where they're making the castings.

[Vasco DG]

Well that will be interesting if it's the case. It would seem to me though that a pent roof 4V would make more sense but I suppose it might cost more.

Pete

[kirb]

The prototype photos here http://www.motociclismo.it/galleries/image/13458/218351
and the current V7 here: http://uk.motoguzzi.it/mediaObject/motoguzzi-restyling/notizie/01_MotoGuzzi_V7II_Stone/original/01_MotoGuzzi_V7II_Stone.jpg

Are damn close to the same engine details...the heads look different, but everything from the front to back have similar details. Motociclismo mentions that it is completely new, but I'm sure that is market speak...

[rboe]

Completely new means different things to different people. It can be roughly a scaled up V7 with tweaks and be completely new because it uses all new and different parts.

Use the same engine cases and cylinders but a new head (penta for example) with dual exhaust headers ala XR650L and over head cam - completely new as the guts are different and the heads are different.

Slippery slope. I'd prefer a clean sheet design that resembled the 1400 or 1200 engine vs. a rehash of the V7. Peak HP is not as interesting to me as a high peak torque at low rpm. Especially for a bike that looks like the V9 (for a racer version, a more perky-peaky motor would be acceptable).

Completely new = so vague as to be meaningless.

[pauldaytona]

I'd prefer a clean sheet design that resembled the 1400 or 1200 engine vs. a rehash of the V7. Peak HP is not as interesting to me as a high peak torque at low rpm. Especially for a bike that looks like the V9 (for a racer version, a more perky-peaky motor would be acceptable).

Completely new = so vague as to be meaningless.

What you and us prefer is not where Piaggio calculates with. They have a 1977 design, and that makes up most of the production. That makes more money then reinventing something completely new.  And even if a few more would be sold, it will still be low numbers.

[pikipiki]

Where did you get Hemi head from Kev? They're a horrid, dirty, inefficient thing.

Pete

There's very little difference between pent roof and hemi. Pent roof is necessary where there are 4 valves otherwise the valves can't open far without hitting each other and the cam needs to be kind of complicated. With 2 valves hemi is generally preferable although there's no much in it. The angles of the inlet a exhaust tracks effects power/efficiency more.

[rboe]

What you and us prefer is not where Piaggio calculates with. They have a 1977 design, and that makes up most of the production. That makes more money then reinventing something completely new.  And even if a few more would be sold, it will still be low numbers.

Alas; you are quite correct in that. sigh......

[Offcamber1]

Completely new means different things to different people.
Completely new = so vague as to be meaningless.

Actually in Mandello it means, "Yet another great opportunity to thoroughly botch the valve train on a new model."

[jas67]

Actually in Mandello it means, "Yet another great opportunity to thoroughly botch the valve train on a new model."

Lario, flat tappet 1200.... what's next?   Yeah, sadly, you might be right.

[egschade]

Lario, flat tappet 1200.... what's next?   

There are other rumors that Mandello R&D is looking at a revolutionary liquid-cooled, side-valve configuration that resembles the front quarter of a flat head Ford.   

[oldbike54]

There are other rumors that Mandello R&D is looking at a revolutionary liquid-cooled, side-valve configuration that resembles the front quarter of a flat head Ford.   

 

 Wait , you're kidding , right ? 

  Dusty

[Offcamber1]

Lario, flat tappet 1200.... what's next?   Yeah, sadly, you might be right.

You forgot the hydraulic lifter fiasco on the 2003 EV.

[Vasco DG]

And when they finally get it right they stop production!

Bonkers!

Pete

PS, checked the 13,000km Griso I bought for Dave and yes, the DLC is already failing. What I can't understand is why I never saw this problem for seven years? Believe me I was looking for it!

[mwrenn]

Looking at the photos, I don't see where a timing chain could be for an OHV set up.  I would bet that they are making the 850 cc mark with an 84 mm bore and a little more stroke than a 750 engine.
I think that a hemi head would be physically much larger than the one in the picture as well.
So, just a guess here, I bet that engine is a bored and stroked 750cc engine, with a heron head and bigger valves. 
I really hope it is, would love to get my hands on V9, change a few things on the body, and bolt some 4V heads on it.  A nice light 850, with say 70 to 75 RWHP...that would awesome...

[Chuck in Indiana]

Looking at the photos, I don't see where a timing chain could be for an OHV set up.  I would bet that they are making the 850 cc mark with an 84 mm bore and a little more stroke than a 750 engine.
I think that a hemi head would be physically much larger than the one in the picture as well.
So, just a guess here, I bet that engine is a bored and stroked 750cc engine, with a heron head and bigger valves. 
I really hope it is, would love to get my hands on V9, change a few things on the body, and bolt some 4V heads on it.  A nice light 850, with say 70 to 75 RWHP...that would awesome...

Yer an animal, Mike.. 

[oldbike54]

Yer an animal, Mike.. 

 Enid Oklahoma , the world center SB speed 

  Dusty

[pauldaytona]

OK the official text:

New 850 twin-cylinder Moto Guzzi engine

The V9 Roamer and the V9 Bobber have a new power unit, as usual built at the Moto Guzzi plant in Mandello del Largo. This is of course a 90° transverse V-twin air and oil cooled engine, a set-up used in all current Moto Guzzi engines, albeit with different engine capacities and performance, which provides excellent riding dynamics and a unique sound. It was developed with the explicit aim of maximising torque and elasticity, key aspects for ensuring riding pleasure and on road fun. Starting from the bottom of the engine, the new aluminium crankcase stiffened at the key points, has a new oil pan and an inertia calibrated crankshaft for liveliness and the correct engine braking. Inside the lubrication system is designed to dispose of the greater heat capacity and reduce power absorption to the benefit of both performance and fuel consumption. The ventilation system reduces power loss due to pumping within the crank chambers and a new low flow oil pump that absorbs less power. The oil pump suction pipe is new as is the bypass valve. There are new piston cooling oil jets with check valve and flow management. The alternator cover is also new and now includes the blow-by gas output.
In the upper part of the engine, the thermodynamics are completely new. Aluminium heads, pistons and cylinders are designed to make the most of the engine's characteristics. Its cubic capacity is provided by bore and stroke values of 84x77 mm. Distribution is controlled by a pushrod system and there are two valves per cylinder set at an incline in the head (and no longer parallel, as on the V7 II engine). The fuel supply uses a one-piece Marelli electronic injection system. The electronic engine control unit is new. Of note is the presence in the entrance heads of the auxiliary air system, which, combined with the three-way catalytic converter, the double oxygen sensor and the total redesign of the engine, bring the twin 850 Moto Guzzi into compliance with EU4 standards. The unit is capable of 62 Nm of torque at just 3,000 revs/min, with a maximum power of 55 HP at 6,250 r/min, figures that show Moto Guzzi's commitment to achieving high levels of torque even at low rpms. This engine boasts surprising a character and responsiveness, which contribute to a really exciting riding experience. A version with the power limited to 35 kW is available, in line with the restrictions of an A2 licence and ideal for new Guzzi riders, who can also enjoy a record low total weight and the general ease of riding of both V9s.
AAnother innovative aspect of the 850 Moto Guzzi engine is the 179 mm diameter single dry plate clutch, providing a perfect transmission of torque and power with no jerkiness or hesitation. This increases robustness and reliability over time and decreases the load on the handlebar lever, for better controllability and riding comfort. The six-speed gearbox is new, precise and with a soft clutch, which benefits from unprecedented ratios that make the most of the torque and engine power. The final transmission is carried out by a new double-jointed drive shaft offset by the increased size and the new bevel gear, which provides solid and reliable management of the powerful torque supplied by the twin engine. The cast aluminium swingarm has been designed and sized to support engine performance, as well as to accommodate the new 150 mm tyre.

Chassis architecture: the quality of the Moto Guzzi tradition

Carlo Guzzi was probably the first person to grasp the importance of a frame able to exploit the full potential of the engine and a suspension unit that responds perfectly to the imperfections in the road surface. Indeed, the Norge GT of 1928 was the first motorcycle with a "spring frame", equipped with front and rear suspension, bringing enormous advantages in terms of safety and riding pleasure. The Moto Guzzi tradition is replete with models recognised for their excellent ride qualities. In terms of custom motorcycles, we should really mention the California, which in 1970, under the name V7 Police, was bought by the LAPD (Los Angeles Police Department) after a series of tough tests.

On the back of this tradition, Moto Guzzi now builds motorcycles like the V7 II and the fleet of the big 1400s, which are real benchmarks in terms of handling in their respective segments. The V9 is the latest jewel from Moto Guzzi for riding pleasure and effectiveness. The new steel twin tube cradle frame creates optimal weight distribution on the front and rear of the engine, thereby providing the rideability and dynamic balance typical of all motorcycles built at Mandello del Lario. The designers paid special attention to the front, which has gussets in the steering head and new slope and trail abilities, making for a superb ride with the perfect combination of handling and stability, as well as precision and feeling.  In addition the entire structure benefited from care and finishing of the details, including welding and painting. The suspension is also new, using traditional long-travel (130 mm) inverted forks and a new pair of spring preload adjustable shock absorbers connected to the frame, which provide a gradual and controlled response at all times. The braking system is dedicated to the V9: the forecarriage has a new pump and Brembo opposed four-piston callipers against a 320 mm steel disc. At the rear a pump with integrated tank activates a 260 mm disc and a two-piston floating calliper.

Moto Guzzi Media Platform connects the V9 to the world

An optional multimedia platform is available for Moto Guzzi V9 Roamer and V9 Bobber riders. MG-MP is an innovative multimedia system that allows you to connect the bike to your smartphone and consequently to the web. With this application, downloadable free from the App Store and Google Play, your smartphone (iPhone or Android) becomes an actual sophisticated on board multifunctional computer and the link between the vehicle and the Internet.
The wireless connection allows you to simultaneously view a set of vehicle information on a smartphone screen, so you can constantly have an eye on the travel parameters. The “Eco Ride” feature helps to limit fuel consumption and to maintain eco-compatible riding conduct, providing a brief assessment of the results obtained during the trip.
You can record trip data and review them on your computer or directly on your smartphone, analysing the distance covered together with the vehicle's operating parameters. The system also allows you to easily locate your vehicle when you park in a strange place, automatically saving the position where it was switched off. MG-MP includes the “Grip Warning” function which replicates the indications on traction control operation for maximum visibility and provides information in real time on your riding performance with relation to the road surface conditions. A dedicated indicator light warns in the event of excessive use of available grip. Thanks to the synergistic use of gyroscopes and the information coming from the vehicle, the smartphone becomes a sophisticated instrument to measure the lean angle in turns thanks to algorithms developed specifically for the new Moto Guzzi. The limit thresholds can be set both for lean angle as well as vehicle and engine speed. When these limits are exceeded the relative indicator lights will come on or the virtual dashboard will flash.

Versions and colours

The Moto Guzzi V9 Roamer is available in two different colour variants, both with a glossy finish: Giallo Solare with black inserts; Bianco Classico with red.

The Moto Guzzi V9 Bobber is available in two colours, both with a completely matt finish: Nero Massiccio with yellow inserts and Grigio Sport with red inserts.

Moto Guzzi V9 Roamer: technical specifications
(V9 Bobber data in brackets)


ENGINE   
Type   90° V-twin, 4-stroke, 2-valves per cylinder
Cooling   air and oil
Engine capacity   853 cm³
Bore and stroke   84 x 77 mm
Compression ratio   10.5: 1
   
Maximum power   40,44 kW (55 HP) at 6,250 rpm
Torque   62 Nm at 3,000 rpm
Fuel system    Marelli MIU single-body electronic injection, integrated management of traction control on 2 levels
Starter   electric
Exhaust system   stainless steel, 2-in-2 type, three-way catalytic converter with double lambda probe
Emissions compliance   Euro 4
   
TRANSMISSION   
Gearbox   6 speeds with final overdrive
Gear ratio values   1st 16/39 = 1: 2,437
   2nd 18/32 = 1: 1,778
   3rd 21/28 = 1: 1,333
   4th 24/26 = 1: 1,083
   5th 25/24 = 1: 0,96
   6th 28/24 = 1: 0,857
   
Primary drive   with helical teeth, ratio 21/25 = 1: 1.190)
Final drive   double universal joint and double bevel gear units (8/33 ratio = 1: 4,125)
Clutch   Ø 170 mm single disc with integrated flexible couplings
 
CHASSIS   
Chassis   ALS steel twin tube cradle frame
Wheelbase   1480 mm   
Trail   125.1 mm (116.1 mm)
Headstock angle   26.4°
Steering angle   38°
Front suspension   traditional fork, Ø 40 mm
Front wheel travel   130 mm
Rear suspension   swingarm with double shock absorber with adjustable spring preload.
Rear wheel travel   97 mm
Front brake   stainless steel floating disc, Ø 320 mm Brembo opposed four-piston callipers
Rear brake   stainless steel floating disc, Ø 260 mm Brembo opposed two-piston callipers
Wheels   Aluminium alloy
Front wheel rim   2.50” x 19” (3,50” x 16”)
Rear wheel rim   4.00” x 16”
Front tyre   100/90 R 19” (130/90 R 16”)
Rear tyre   150/80 R 16”
   
ELECTRICAL SYSTEM   
System voltage   12 V
Battery   12V - 18 Ah
   
DIMENSIONS   
Length   2134 mm (2124 mm)
Width     722,4 mm (892,3 mm)
Height    1110 mm
Saddle height   775 mm (770 mm)
Kerb weight     ± 200 Kg
Fuel tank capacity   15 litres
Reserve   4 litres

[leafman60]

Very unimpressive power numbers.

Very disappointing.

Why would they go through the time and expense of designing an upgraded motor that puts out about the same power of the 750 motor?

The 900 version of the new Triumph will leave the Guzzi behind in the dust.

[oldbike54]

 Paul , do the angled valves indicate this is a hemi head or still a Heron head engine ?

  Dusty

[leafman60]

Paul , do the angled valves indicate this is a hemi head or still a Heron head engine ?

  Dusty

The copy says the valves are not parallel so that means valves at an angle which would mean some sort of hemispherical head instead of the flat-topped heron heads.

Who cares?  Whatever changes they've made seem to have produced little gain over the 750 motor.

Maybe something else is in the works.

[pauldaytona]

as Leafman says, but to know for shure we have to wait a little, they come in the shops in the Netherlands "early" 2016. Never trust it as marketing starts with technical details were they have no clue about

[oldbike54]

The copy says the valves are not parallel so that means valves at an angle which would mean some sort of hemispherical head instead of the flat-topped heron heads.

Who cares?  Whatever changes they've made seem to have produced little gain over the 750 motor.

Maybe something else is in the works.

 Hmm , doesn't your beloved HD keep building larger engines every year with very little real performance gains ? 5 HP is a 10 % gain , the aftermarket makes a fortune every year selling products that do less . Besides , these bikes aren't sold as performance bikes , if you want that , go buy a Yamaha .


  Dusty
 

[Kev m]

Very unimpressive power numbers.

Very disappointing.

Why would they go through the time and expense of designing an upgraded motor that puts out about the same power of the 750 motor?

The 900 version of the new Triumph will leave the Guzzi behind in the dust.

Could be, as people have been speculating, it was as much for emissions as for power.

And, as Jay pointed out, we both find the small 1-2 hp gain the 1TB offered over the 2TB smallblock to be a not insignificant difference. This appears to be "even more of that" - meaning more than double that.

Maybe it means nothing to the 100 hp crowd, but it might mean something to the rest of us. Time will tell.

[Dogwalker]

And, as Jay pointed out, we both find the small 1-2 hp gain the 1TB offered over the 2TB smallblock to be a not insignificant difference. This appears to be "even more of that" - meaning more than double that.

If those 55 HP means 50 at the rear wheel, we have a gain near to the 20% over the V7 II, that's surely sensible.
Still disappointing (from a 850 hemi head, I estimated 58 at the rear), but that could mean that there is room for improvement with more sporty models.

[Kev m]

If those 55 HP means 50 at the rear wheel, we have a gain near to the 20% over the V7 II, that's surely sensible.
Still disappointing (from a 850 hemi head, I estimated 58 at the rear), but that could mean that there is room for improvement with more sporty models.

How could 55 crank = 50 wheel
When V7 50 crank = 40 wheel

???

[jas67]

How could 55 crank = 50 wheel
When V7 50 crank = 40 wheel

???

Only through some miraculously low-loss drive train.

The real answer is, with shaft drive, that ain't happening.  55 crank is likely 44 wheel.

Refer back to previous comments regarding increased emissions controls, real world usable torque etc.

If the V7 line continues, it will have this motor in it by 2017.