Moto Guzzi's Future

[Beerman]

In theory it made so much seeming sense.  MG was retro before mustaches and dress boots on motorcycles became fashionable; thus, them focusing on what they have always done well (cruisers and retro) would, on paper, seem the right move, or at least a financially smart one.  But motorcycle sales are declining overall and conversely, there has been a kind of explosion in the retro field.  No longer is it just someone choosing between a V7 and/or a Bonnie.  There are not 1, but 2 XSR versions now, a host of Duc Scramblers, too many 9T versions to count, a new Kawi �retro�.  Now I doubt there are many folks out there choosing directly between a 9T and a V7 but what I�m saying is that overall, I dunno if this is a niche field anymore.  It�s not.  The competition is more fierce than it has ever been. 

This reminds me of the beer market. Overall, sales are in decline - US, UK, wherever. However, there is a part of the market in growth - hipster, cool, authentic - in beer terms, craft. Even in craft beer, there is oversupply: too many niche brewers chasing the ball. Who wins out in the long run?

I don't know, but I do know...the V7 is a great bike.

Beerman

[Beerman]

And, while I'm on beer (NGC alert) I've just come back from a 'fact finding mission' to the US. Accepting that the best beer is brewed here in the UK, I found some amazing 'craft' beers...Shipyard (Portland, Maine) and Founders (Grand Rapids) stood out for me.

Sorry for straying off pitch, but as I point out above there are similarities between the beer market and the motorcycle market (which may have gone unnoticed....)

Beerman

[LowRyter]

Indeed; Kev m, here's my extended hand--'tis really a buncha nonsense. I'll buy you a dram tonight, though, given our distance, I'll have to drink it myself. What's your preference?

And, as noted, I'll report back on the V7 I'm riding tomorrow.

I'll take Kev's dram, Macallan 12 year old is good enough.   

But if you want to splurge, I won't stop ya.   


carry on. fisticuff per marquis of queensbury.  no weapons pleaz.

Colossal Head, turn it up. 

[LowRyter]

I was just talking to Don, he was in Italy at the Piaggio deal:

He has no idea what is in the V85.  Might be a flux capacitor.  I think they might want to take us back to 1921?

The 1100 is being redesigned because it won't make Euro emissions.  Who thinks a 50 that about a 50 year old engine.  shocking. 

The guy that HAD the scooter store in town was yacking with Don.  The former scooter guy said that there is a market for scooters.  Don says he'll sell Vespas because he works on a lot of scooters now.

[Kristian]

And, while I'm on beer (NGC alert) I've just come back from a 'fact finding mission' to the US. Accepting that the best beer is brewed here in the UK, I found some amazing 'craft' beers...Shipyard (Portland, Maine) and Founders (Grand Rapids) stood out for me.

Beerman

Point of order: The American microbrew explosion over the last 20 years has completely changed brewing with all sorts of innovation, like non-traditional flavors in beers, using bourbon barrels for aging, etc., with Americans dominant in world brewing competitions for years now.

Funny little fact, that. In my smallish Seattle neighborhood, Ballard, we have 15 microbreweries alone; but check the stats for US cities generally! It's really quite mad.
http://www.washingtonbeerblog.com/seattle-has-the-most-breweries-of-any-city-in-the-usa/

[pete roper]

The V7 Sport was near or at the top of the pile of fast bikes when it came out in 1971, and had significantly more power than a current V7, with 70-72 BHP. There was very little faster or sportier than a V7 Sport in 1971, and they also had a very healthy racing history. A V7 Sport would definitely see off any modern V7 in both acceleration and top speed with a real 125 MPH on offer. The current V7's design brief has nothing in common with the V7 Sport; a faint echo is all. Current V7s are nice bikes, but, are MG's entry-level vs. the V7 Sport, which was MG's top-of-the-line in '71-'74.

Oh my aching sides! 70-72HP from a V7S? In what universe!? 

On what makes a bike 'Good'? Just because something is popular doesn't automatically make it good any more than something being unpopular makes things 'Bad'.

[desmo900]

MG has obviously been run very carefully by smart Piaggio managers and bean counters over the last 13 years, as careful, inexpensive development and niche targeting has created a popular bike for beginners (and hipsters), the V7 series, and the Cali series for cruiser folk. V7s are very good looking retro bikes, but, they are beginner's bikes, as created by MG. Me, no way my 6'1"+ self will own one of these tiny 50-HP machines. A fella needs passing power!

Nor am I into 750+ LB. cruisers, I have zero use for them. But, again, the Calis and offspring are beautifully designed, engineered, and built bikes; just not for me.

The Griso was truly inspired and certainly competitive with others, as are the current V7s and Cali ranges, proving MG certainly knows how to build bikes competitive in today's market.

MG was not a budget brand, nor is it now; comments to that effect are in error. MG is, in fact, a premium brand, as the quality of the current bikes evidence; Piaggio would bristly strongly at MG being thought of as a budget maker of weird bikes for oddballs, as model ranges over the last ten years prove. The build quality of Guzzis over the last many years has been terrific, better than most, especially the likes of BMW. And, original Eldos, Ambassadors, V7s, Le Manses, were not cheap budget bikes, and did several important things better than most other brands; and some worse.

Thus, it will take little for the a revamped mill for a new Griso--hopefully watercooled--to become the basis for a proper Le Mans. The only reason it hasn't happened yet is that Piaggio--again--is running MG carefully, with en eye on the bottom line.

Finally, the only reason CARC MGs (Griso, Stelvio) have been subject to discounts over the last years is their age and general uncompetitiveness; Piaggio/MG left them on the counter too long.

So I have to differ with the view that the V7 is a beginner bike only. I’ve been riding over 20 years and have had a multitude of bikes in that time. Currently, I have a V11 Le Mans Tenni, a Stelvio and a V7II - and you know which bike is my go to? The V7. It’s an easy bike to ride, can tour, does everything well and has fantastic range. Is it blistering fast? No. I’m 50 years old, weight 225 and 6’2”. It’s almost perfect in my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[OldMojo]

Thread drift aside, when speaking of Moto Guzzi's future, I'm surprised no one has mentioned this:



http://www.piaggiogroup.com/en/archive/press/piaggio-group-continues-international-development-distribution-network

While I understand that this "boutique" concept is the bane of many on this board, it's well established that Guzzis tend to languish in the typical multi-brand Powersports Superstore, and the Guzzi-only shop is all but unviable.

Like it or not, a large factor in the motorcycle market is image, and for as long as I've been a Guzzi owner (15 yrs) Guzzi has had an image problem. Namely, that people have never heard of them. Everyone knows the drill - Yes, it's a V-twin mounted sideways - No, it's not Chinese  - No, they've been around since 1921 - No, there aren't any dealers around here.

The Italian-bred motorcycle experience is a concept that has value, but has been poorly expressed by Guzzi, at least in the US.

Sprinkle a few more of these Motoplex flagships around the country and trade on the combined name recognition of the stablemates. Establish Guzzi as an aspirational yet attainable brand. Claim some mindshare and that will get traffic flowing into the local shops beyond their orbit.

[Beerman]

Point of order: The American microbrew explosion over the last 20 years has completely changed brewing with all sorts of innovation, like non-traditional flavors in beers, using bourbon barrels for aging, etc., with Americans dominant in world brewing competitions for years now.

Point of order: I didn't say that the Americans didn't win brewing competitions. I just said that the best beer is brewed here in the UK. I'm always willing to go on further fact finding missions which support my hypothesis.

As it happens, there are indeed some wonderful beers in the US - and at strengths that you would never find here in the UK ('loopy juice', we'd call it). I have been to Seattle, and I agree, the craft beer scene is fantastic. How many of them make money is another question.

Cheers,

Beerman

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Oh my aching sides! 70-72HP from a V7S? In what universe!? 

On what makes a bike 'Good'? Just because something is popular doesn't automatically make it good any more than something being unpopular makes things 'Bad'.

The V7 Sport's supposed "70-72 hp" was "brochure horsepower", actual was more like 50 bhp.

[Devildog]

Are these Motoplex stores factory owned and run or franchises? I can see them being successful High Street shops in European cities.

[Kristian]

Point of order: I didn't say that the Americans didn't win brewing competitions. I just said that the best beer is brewed here in the UK. I'm always willing to go on further fact finding missions which support my hypothesis.

As it happens, there are indeed some wonderful beers in the US - and at strengths that you would never find here in the UK ('loopy juice', we'd call it). I have been to Seattle, and I agree, the craft beer scene is fantastic. How many of them make money is another question.

Cheers,

Beerman

Haha, well, I'm a German and Belgian beer feller myself; many American brewmasters tend to hop their beers too much, though we have an excellent British-style beer brewery here in Seattle, MachineHouse Brewing: http://www.machinehousebrewery.com

We had a 13% bourbon barrel-aged Tripel-style brew a few weeks ago. Deadly.

[OldMojo]

Are these Motoplex stores factory owned and run or franchises? I can see them being successful High Street shops in European cities.

Best as I can tell, it's a bit of both. I get the impression that stores in newly-launched (or re-launched) markets are company owned, with subsequent stores being franchises.

[Kev m]

On the beer tangent, what i find troublesome in the American micro-revolution is the tendency for everyone to try and make everything over the top.

What is too often lost is the subtle and delicate balance of malt and hops that I think truly define an outstanding beer.

But like anything it's about tastes.

On the corporate stores, they can be a blessing or a curse and the devil's in the details. But as always I remain optimistic that some would be good for the brand.