Moto Guzzi's Future

[Kristian]

This thread suffers from fatal thread drift!

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

This thread suffers from fatal thread drift!

As do most conversations.
I kinda like that.

[bad Chad]

Beginer bike and entry-level, do not mean the same thing.

[JJ]

This thread suffers from fatal thread drift!

"THREAD DRIFT!!!" 

Moto Guzzi's target marketing / new product future better include:  women, minorities, millennial's, and young people in general...or they will face extinction issues! 

As nature has proven........."Adaptability is the key to survival..."

[Toecutter]

Beginer bike and entry-level, do not mean the same thing.

My thoughts exactly.

[timonbik]

They can do all the marketing they want to whatever target group may be out there, but buyers, especially first time buyers will not travel 100's of miles to look at a bike. Get some dealers in place and the sales will come.  They don't have to be mega dealers, just a place where people can get parts and service and after purchase support.
Cheers, Tim

[twowings]

This thread suffers from fatal thread drift!

YOU have the ability to delete it entirely...

[Toecutter]

As a relative noob to Wildguzzi... "thread drift" is ridiculous here. I've yet to see a thread stay anywhere near on topic.

[Kristian]

Beginer bike and entry-level, do not mean the same thing.

All major manufacturers' entry-level bikes are excellent beginner's bikes, and vice-versa. The fact that the new V7s are known, excellent, beginner's bikes and MG's entry-level doesn't mean experienced riders can't appreciate it; the opposite is just plain silly.

[oldbike54]

As a relative noob to Wildguzzi... "thread drift" is ridiculous here. I've yet to see a thread stay anywhere near on topic.

 That's not true , and even if it is ( ) these threads about what car to buy are always interesting 

 Dusty

[bad Chad]

I think I understand where you are coming from Kristan.   And the v7 stone, might be a beginer bike for adults with plenty of cash on hand, or a real desire to start on something really exotic and unique.   But your average new rider is not likely going to put down 8-10 thousand dollars for a starter bike, right?

[usedtobefast]

I just bought my first Moto Guzzi about 6 weeks ago.  56 years old, owned over 50 motorcycles, so not the millennial or beginner "target" .

For me, I have known about Moto Guzzis since the late 70's probably.  But I was young and buying a Honda 750F or V65 Sabre or Interceptor ... then on to CBR-RR, and R6/R1.  Had some Ducatis along the way.  And KTMs.  And a couple of BMWs. 

If it wasn't for the V7 line up, I wouldn't have bought an MG.

(not sure if these next statements will get me banned from the forum...  )  Never liked the cruiser style bikes.  Not into the touring or ADV bikes MG made.  Although, pictures of the 1400 California in white seem nice.  In person the bike just seemed too big to me.  The Grizzo models seemed kind of cool, but not to a point for me to buy one ... they seemed to say to heck with the heritage thing (good and bad there).  On the V11, sorry, but that rear end just looks too Suzuki Hayabusa to me ... but have been tempted by these.  The V9 models, hum, kind of cruiser, kind of not, zero interest in these. 

Then the V7 bikes.  Wow.  The Stornello, awesome!  The Racer, gorgeous (and oh, the Ohlins rear shocks!).  The blue Special, wow, classic, beautiful.  The Anniversario, while too much chrome for me, also a fantastic looking bike. 

V7 pricing, very reasonable.  And it feels like a perfect blend of a new old school bike.  Like I'm getting an older, classic Moto Guzzi, but wait, it is brand new!

I ended up with a V7 iii Racer and love it. 

I was wondering if I needed to buy an open face helmet, lace up boots, skinny jeans and roll up the bottom 4 inches, flannel shirt, and grow some sort of unique facial hair.  But I don't live in Portland or Seattle, so I think I'm ok.   

[usedtobefast]

As for Moto Guzzi's future ... I wonder what they want and what Piaggio wants. 

If I was running things  , I would see what is the realistic capacity of my factory ... how many bikes could I make a year.  Compare that to how many I am making and selling.  I would not want to grow to the point of needing a new facility or invest in expensive expansion. 

The investment needed to make a bike faster/lighter/better than a Ducati/Aprilia/Japanese sport bike just seems like a crazy plan.  Would need a TON of money and even if you did it, if you equaled a Ducati supersport, would that potential buyer get the MG?  Or still go with a Ducati?  (I think Ducati)

I would keep the V7 line as low priced as possible.  Focus on the Stone and models very close to that. 

I would take the racer/special/scrambler style to the V9 lineup.  Figure out how to get about 4.5" of rear wheel travel vs. ~3.5" of rear wheel travel!  There would be higher price point than the V7's, and be a bit more upscale.  Maybe have a speciale model, like a basic V9 Racer ("normal" rear shocks and forks) and a Seciale V9 Racer model (Ohlins rear, higher spec'ed forks, maybe twin rotor front, etc). 

I'd have a 1200cc line of classics, again higher price point.  LeMans replica!  A CX100 "basic" model.  Maybe an SP1000 replica ... or make an SP kit you could buy and put on a CX. 

So the old guys could take their pick ... V7, V9, or V12.
New riders could afford and be tempted by the basic V7.

Old guys would buy every V12 we could make. 

Seems like this could get it to where you are selling everything you could make in a year.

[ramarren]

Please define:
  Beginner bike
  Entry level bike
I'm not sure what you mean by each of these terms.

By the standards of the day when I leaned to ride, a 750cc machine with 50hp was considered a very large and powerful bike for beginners to handle. Didn't stop me but I found I liked a Honda 400 four more, for a while anyway.

[Matteo]

I love the 750�s . The Ippogrifo originally drew me to Guzzi and I was disappointed when it fell through the cracks. I almost bought a Monster 750 but decided to get a Jackal and trim it to suit my tastes. Glad I did, while it�s a little heavier than I wanted it has everything I need and is a joy to ride and travel with.
I was really set on a Stornello but will hold off to see what the V85 offers. Older I get the more I enjoy the lighter bikes.
Anyone interested in a low mile Norge?

[Bulldog9]

IMO, Piaggio is making a conscious decision to turn their sport/sport touring and advanced tech towards Aprilia, and will focus Guzzi on the classic retro direction. Triumph is a perfect example of where this COULD go, but the V7 and 9 are VERY underwhelming on every level in my opinion. I really like the California, but it is a huge full size touring oriented bike. Guzzi needs to do what Triumph has, virtually reinvent and improve their entire line. It seems to me Piaggio ownership has dulled and muted both Aprilia and Guzzi..... not a good thing in the increasingly competitive and shrinking motorcycle market.

I would have loved to see an evolution of the CARC structure, and taken to the next level. The Gris Formula was right on for a sport standard, and can be so much more. I love my 4V GRiSO and 8V Norge, and they will likely be the last bikes I will buy unless the wife gives the OK to eventually move from the Norge to a Full Dressed California.

[kingoffleece]

I've never thought I needed "more" from my V7.  If it had that it would be something else.
Having a bike with "just enough" completely transforms the riding experience-at least for me.  Funny thing is that everywhere except an endless straight the V7 seems to pace with almost all the bigger bikes.  But I'm sure it's in least in part where the rider lives and the amount of twists and turns.

[Kristian]

IMO, Piaggio is making a conscious decision to turn their sport/sport touring and advanced tech towards Aprilia, and will focus Guzzi on the classic retro direction. Triumph is a perfect example of where this COULD go, but the V7 and 9 are VERY underwhelming on every level in my opinion. I really like the California, but it is a huge full size touring oriented bike. Guzzi needs to do what Triumph has, virtually reinvent and improve their entire line. It seems to me Piaggio ownership has dulled and muted both Aprilia and Guzzi..... not a good thing in the increasingly competitive and shrinking motorcycle market.

Agree 100%, though I quite like V7s. But, just look at what Triumph has done with the Thruxton R; a stunner in every way. Guzzi could easily do the same; a water-cooled Le Mans 1200 with styling borrowing heavily from the 850 Le Mans, but fully modernized like the Trumpet. I'd pay anything for that.

[Muzz]

All major manufacturers' entry-level bikes are excellent beginner's bikes, and vice-versa. The fact that the new V7s are known, excellent, beginner's bikes and MG's entry-level doesn't mean experienced riders can't appreciate it; the opposite is just plain silly.

When I first joined WG in 2004 the site at the time had a split in to a big block and a small block section. Big block owners used to diss small block owners big time. Over a period of time, starting with the introduction of the 750 Breva, guys started buying small blocks for their better halves to ride. They started borrowing them for a quick scoot down to the shops etc, and found that they are a very nice bike to ride and although not what you would call powerful, they are an absolute hoot in the tight twisties.

As a beginners bike, with no power band to speak of they are very easy to learn to ride. Once experience  is gained they are still a most enjoyable ride, entry level or not.

[Devildog]

The V7 is a great bike for crowded urban riding, for most of Europe they are probably an ideal bike, and the low horsepower keeps insurance affordable. I've always thought that Guzzi focuses on their European market first, but I could be wrong.

[Unkept]

Some news...
https://www.dueruote.it/notizie/attualita/vespa-elettrica-e-ibrida-l-arrivo-a-ottobre

Moto Guzzi, the 2018 news
Finally, as far as the bikes are concerned, Colaninno explained that the new Moto Guzzi V85 will be ready for September and two more versions of the V7 family will arrive by the end of the year. The group is also working on a new Moto Guzzi 1100.

Also noticed on Facebook dealers got to go to Italy and talk to Piaggio people in a meeting.





So the article talked about an 1100, and the dealer mentioned a new engine in a racer and "one other model."

Heard rumor hear of a new Griso. Maybe the new Griso will have an 1100 version of the V85 "80 hp" engine coming?

[gerryp]

I've never thought I needed "more" from my V7.  If it had that it would be something else.
Having a bike with "just enough" completely transforms the riding experience-at least for me.  Funny thing is that everywhere except an endless straight the V7 seems to pace with almost all the bigger bikes.  But I'm sure it's in least in part where the rider lives and the amount of twists and turns.

 :1:

So far my V7 is the most fun bike I've owned ( Honda Nighthawk, Kawi 750 ZR7S, Triumph 955i Sprint ST, Triumph 1050 ABS Sprint ST). I have absolutely no regrets about going Guzzi V7.

Gerry

[Yeahoo Whoyah]

https://www.dueruote.it/notizie/attualita/vespa-elettrica-e-ibrida-l-arrivo-a-ottobre

Interesting that the Vespa Elettrica and the hybrid model (electric and thermal) will be presented to the market in October.  Just a few weeks after Harley-Davidson finally confirmed that it plans on bringing its first electric motorcycle to market next year.  Just a few days ago H-D announced an investment in Alta Motors to accelerate its electrification effort. Alta Motors, formerly known as BRD Motorcycles, is a small electric motorcycle startup based in Silicon Valley and backed financially by Tesla co-founders Marc Tarpenning and Martin Eberhard.  For me, electric bikes are not something I'd buy at this time, however, if they bring new riders into the motorcycle community that would be a good thing. 

[kingoffleece]

Gerry, we think alike.  And our bikes have been Hamlinized.  WE know how great they run, don't we.

[gerryp]

Gerry, we think alike.  And our bikes have been Hamlinized.  WE know how great they run, don't we.

Yes, Yes we do.   

[fossil]

Can it be that some of the people who constantly mourn the weak power output of the V7 have never ridden one?

[LowRyter]

assume that new 1100 would be the sport model we want?

I know a guy that went there last week, I'll see what he can tell me about it.

[JohninVT]

Can it be that some of the people who constantly mourn the weak power output of the V7 have never ridden one?

I've ridden several and while I know many, many WG members tour two up on V7's, I wouldn't.  Since I do a lot of riding with a passenger I would not buy a V7 if it was my only motorcycle.  I'm seriously considering buying a blue Special this summer though to go along with my Touring, however. 

I'm not doom and gloom about Guzzi.  The V7 is a unique bike in the market.  It's a little jewel of a motorcycle that appeals to hipsters, new riders, experienced riders, older riders and women.  I've seen every conceivable type of motorcyclist(except serious sport riders) on them and they're used for every type of riding.  They mechanically simple and robust yet they have a full suite of modern electronics and ABS.  Guzzi should make them forever.

The Cali 1400 is a high tech cruiser that handles well, is a flat out bargain second hand and looks great.  I enjoy mine a lot. 

The V85 seems destined to become a high end V-Strom 650.  Guzzi has to make sure there are no mechanical foibles with the V85 but it could end up becoming what the BMW R80GS SHOULD have evolved into rather than the bloated, behemoth R1200GS.  I can't see how they can possibly meet the HP claims or wet weight that are being thrown around so all the die hard Guzzisti are going to bitch.  It could still be great and I'll be happy if I'm wrong.  I'd buy one if it was close to what's being claimed. 

I think Guzzi missed the mark with the V9.  It seemed aimed at the Sportster crowd.  It has odd sized tires and IMHO, the tank is just too damned ugly(que every V9 owner on the board telling me I'm off the mark).  If they'd made the thing decent looking it just would have stolen sales from the V7 so I understand Guzzi's approach in making it different in an attempt to increase sales but it's a miss.  I'd guess a dozen V7's are sold for every V9.   

Guzzi will never build a modern sportbike.  Those that clamor for one simply do not understand the capabilities of modern bikes.  What Guzzi could do is build a large displacement sporty motorcycle with standard-ish ergos that appeals to older(middle-aged) riders.  It would need enough performance and style to differentiate itself from the V7 in a major way.  It shouldn't be a bike that would steal sales from the V7.  Sure, a new Le Mans would be great but the Griso 1200, in many ways, was the spiritual successor to the 1000S.  I think it's going to be spoken of in the same terms as the 1000S in 10-15 years.  The Yamaha XSR900 and Kawasaki Z900RS are both big hits.  Guzzi has always embraced their past while building unique, gentlemen expresses.  A 1000S type machine is about the only bike missing in their lineup.  Like the CARC bikes, it could be used as a platform for a sport tourer and sport-standard. 

With that addition the Guzzi lineup would be as broad as it's been in 50 years.  I think Guzzi is headed in exactly the direction it should be and poised for success in the coming decade.  Guzzi has to define success differently than other manufacturers since it will never be a mainstream brand but nevertheless, the future looks bright.         

[Toecutter]

The V7 is a great bike for crowded urban riding, for most of Europe they are probably an ideal bike, and the low horsepower keeps insurance affordable.

Well, speaking as a rider in the great, empty highway expanses of western Canada, I gotta say, it does that pretty damn well, too. Both my wife and I ride V7s... they'll eat up long days and hundreds of kms in comfort and class.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Some news...
https://www.dueruote.it/notizie/attualita/vespa-elettrica-e-ibrida-l-arrivo-a-ottobre

Moto Guzzi, the 2018 news
Finally, as far as the bikes are concerned, Colaninno explained that the new Moto Guzzi V85 will be ready for September and two more versions of the V7 family will arrive by the end of the year. The group is also working on a new Moto Guzzi 1100.

Also noticed on Facebook dealers got to go to Italy and talk to Piaggio people in a meeting.





So the article talked about an 1100, and the dealer mentioned a new engine in a racer and "one other model."

Heard rumor hear of a new Griso. Maybe the new Griso will have an 1100 version of the V85 "80 hp" engine coming?

The V85 is a "two valve motor??"