Static Timing

[Bob_Fla]

On the mounting plate of 1984 850T distributor, how can you rotate the plate?
The left plate is held by two screws but the right (base) cannot be rotated because of the screws that hold the mount for the wires.
Instructions say to rotate the plate but it can only go so far. Not enough to line up with the static mark.
Can anyone tell me what i'm doing wrong?
Thanks

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

On the mounting plate of 1984 850T distributor, how can you rotate the plate?
The left plate is held by two screws but the right (base) cannot be rotated because of the screws that hold the mount for the wires.
Instructions say to rotate the plate but it can only go so far. Not enough to line up with the static mark.
Can anyone tell me what i'm doing wrong?
Thanks

You set right cylinder timing by rotating the "distributor".

[guzzisteve]

2 bolts at bottom.

[bigbikerrick]

Some of my most frustrating moments with Guzzis, have been getting the timing right on a dual point tonti Guzzi. I eventually have always ended up installing a Dyna III ignition. Its nice to be able to set the timing perfectly, and then forget about it.  With the points, I never really could tell if any running issues were caused by carburetion, or ignition.
Rick.

[n3303j]

Some of my most frustrating problems were the result of electronic ignitions going intermittent.

I see the occasional Dyna issue crop up on this site. Device sometimes leaves rider looking for a trailer.

Never had points / coil /condenser be anything but reliable. First set of points on my T3 passed the 50K mile mark before I changed them out of guilt.

(Just converted my Ural to points after expensive lessons from PowerArc.) The confidence this simple system provides....

[guzzisteve]

Some of my most frustrating moments with Guzzis, have been getting the timing right on a dual point tonti Guzzi. I eventually have always ended up installing a Dyna III ignition. Its nice to be able to set the timing perfectly, and then forget about it.  With the points, I never really could tell if any running issues were caused by carburetion, or ignition.
Rick.

Last time I timed my Cal2 was around 89-90 well over 100Kmi, every time I check it it's fine.

[ital4me]

A Dyna left me stranded once. Dropped a cylinder. Nothing you can do about that on a ride. Points can be fiddled with on the road. I usually carry a spare set along with a points file and spare plug. When solid state components fail, nothing you can do.

[Bob_Fla]

Rotate the distributor (Two bolts) to set the right cylinder. - I was ready to do that from my auto timing days, but unless I overlooked it, instructions just talk about rotating plates. I don't remember reading anything anywhere about rotating the distributor. 
Thanks.
 

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Some of my most frustrating problems were the result of electronic ignitions going intermittent.

I see the occasional Dyna issue crop up on this site. Device sometimes leaves rider looking for a trailer.

Never had points / coil /condenser be anything but reliable. First set of points on my T3 passed the 50K mile mark before I changed them out of guilt.

(Just converted my Ural to points after expensive lessons from PowerArc.) The confidence this simple system provides....

Original points and condensers in my '76 Convert, now at 51k miles. Set them in '17 when I got it on the road, 33k miles ago. I check them each Spring - still where I set the gap, timing hasn't moved. A little dab of Bosch Distributor Grease and they're good to go.

My '90 Cal III has what looks like it's original points as well, at 45k miles. Neither bike required any modification to the points plate or "fudging" of the gaps to set the timing for both cylinders.

Seen my share of dead Dynas, never again.

[n3303j]

The actual procedure often proceeds as follows.
Set gaps.
Rotate distributor to set RH cylinder timing.
Move point plate to set LH cylinder.
When plate does not move sufficiently elongate slots with a file.
When LH timing is still off "tweak" point gap to get correct LH timing.

Then you are set until rubbing blocks wear.

From then on I set timing with a light on a running engine by slightly loosening the point securing screw and using a screwdriver in the slot for moving the points base. Then snugging up the point anchor screws.

This way there are no feeler gages fighting with bumps on the points and the timing is correct for each cylinder. Sort of like setting adjustable points with a "dwell tach".

[bigbikerrick]

Thats aninteresting way of setting the timing, Ron.  I have never tried it that way.
Rick.

[n3303j]

Works like a charm. Safe and easy as the advance is hidden behind the mounting plates unlike vintage Ural and BMW. Too bad they don't make adjustable points for Moto Guzzi like they did on early Chevrolet.  I remember the door in the side of the distributor for access to the adjusting screw for setting dwell (gap)

You do need an auxiliary fuel supply though as this adjustment is done with the tank removed.

[Bob_Fla]

Thanks for the method Ron. With your information and education from my mistakes and trials, I might get it to work. Thanks everyone.

[chuck peterson]

The actual procedure often proceeds as follows.
Set gaps.
Rotate distributor to set RH cylinder timing.
Move point plate to set LH cylinder.
When plate does not move sufficiently elongate slots with a file.
When LH timing is still off "tweak" point gap to get correct LH timing.

Then you are set until rubbing blocks wear.

From then on I set timing with a light on a running engine by slightly loosening the point securing screw and using a screwdriver in the slot for moving the points base. Then snugging up the point anchor screws.

This way there are no feeler gages fighting with bumps on the points and the timing is correct for each cylinder. Sort of like setting adjustable points with a "dwell tach".

Now that’s an idea I wish I could try out on a Convert…

[n3303j]

Why wouldn't that procedure work on a Convert. Isn't the ignition the same as the 850 T3?

[chuck peterson]

Why wouldn't that procedure work on a Convert. Isn't the ignition the same as the 850 T3?

It might…but I don’t have a vert anymore…
 

[Bob_Fla]

it all makes sense now. Ill be trying to static time tomorrow. Spent most of the day cleaning. Also extending notches and elongating holes just in case.
Hope this does the trick and it starts.

[n3303j]

If it doesn't start the problem lies elsewhere. The silly thing will start and run (although poorly) on one cylinder. All the fiddling is just to get the timing more close to correct.

OTOH It's easy enough to have the points firing the incorrect cylinder. Wouldn't be the first time someone mixed up D & S along the way.

Engine is a just fine tractor that wants to run given gas, air, spark and compression in reasonably correct amounts and times.

[Bob_Fla]

Multiple tries. Many checks and the bike still dose not start.

I replaced my coils a while ago. I only tried to start the bike and the coils are Very HOT. Is that normal.

Stumped, need a break.

[Frenchfrog]

There's a problem Houston ! maybe the wires are inversed ?

[n3303j]

Very hot is not normal unless you forget to turn the ignition off and the points are closed. Then the coils may overheat (and possibly be damaged).
 Are you absolutely sure that your moveable point arm is totally isolated from ground when the point is open? Shorted capacitor or missing insulating component on the moveable contact could ground you out and leave the coils always powered up.

Pull the wires from the points off the coils. Set an ohmmeter (or a light bulb and battery) between this wire (one at a time) and frame ground. Turn the engine over (starter or hand crank). The meter should go from 0 to infinity (or light should flash on and off as the associated set of points opens and  closes. If this doesn't happen it explains why you have a "no start" condition.

[Bob_Fla]

The Tractor Runs !    The Carb adjustments were off.
Fine tuning timing next with timing light now that its running.

Using the timing light, i should be looking for advanced marks at how many RPMs

[n3303j]

The Tractor Runs !    The Carb adjustments were off.
Fine tuning timing next with timing light now that its running.

Using the timing light, i should be looking for advanced marks at how many RPMs

From the Guzzi 850T manual:
(This Old Tractor)
mark .. AF ... (fixed advance at 1500 r.p.m. ± 100
mark .. AT ... (full advance) (fixed and automatic) at 4500 r.p.m. ± 100

[Bob_Fla]

Not able to get the timing light adjustment. If I static set to the marks it runs fine. I keep making it worse when I try to adjust with the light. Must have pulled the plugs a dozen times.
So im calling it good for now, putting it all back together to see how it works on the road.
Learned a lot. Still have more to go.
Next task is to get the carbs right.
I have replaced my original carbs because of slide wear.
They are PHF 30s. Time to check out the Dellorto Manual.

Slow - but progress.

[Bob_Fla]

My distributor does not have a pad for oil on point blocks. Is this normal?

[n3303j]

My distributor does not have a pad for oil on point blocks. Is this normal?

My T3 doesn't have the "points cam" oiler either. I add "points grease" at the leading edge of the points rubbing block.

There is a felt pad on the top of the advance unit that supplies oil to the points cam. This should be present and attended to as needed.

[Bob_Fla]

Is this were the felt pad should be?

[n3303j]

Yup!

[moto]

it will be important to get the full advance timing correct, of course. By the way, the stock distributor does not produce a full 31° of advance, even though that is what the spec is in the manuals. It only produces about 26°. this was what I measured back in 2024, and agrees with Dave Richardson's account. if you can't get your timing light to work you could set the static timing at 7° BTDC to account for this.
I read somewhere that the points plate is really a piece of Fiat equipment. This might count for the often observed fact that the range of adjustment is insufficient on the Guzzi, but I don't know.

[n3303j]

it will be important to get the full advance timing correct, of course. By the way, the stock distributor does not produce a full 31° of advance, even though that is what the spec is in the manuals. [SNIP]

On my T3 when I set the timing with a light I set it at idle to the idle marks on the flywheel. When I run the engine up to 5K RPM the full advance marks show up in the inspection window. Marks are good as I checked them with a degree wheel. Is my distributor different than stock?