Whats the fastest/most powerful Guzzi?

[Idontwantapickle]

I rode my Griso to the coffee shop in the nearby town of Bisbee, AZ. I was outside by my bike sipping an espresso,and a German couple approached and started talking to me about the Griso. The Gent told me that they have a reputation in Germany of being the fastest Guzzi. I told him that I didnt know that, but it was deffinitely the fastest Guzzi I had ever ridden personally, I think its faster than my V 11 sports Ive owned, but not sure. I have never pondered that question before...
  What are the group's opinion on what may be the fastest production Guzzi , in top speed and acceleration?
Rick.

not in the title.

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[LowRyter]

But none go 172 mph.

Moto

 

[moto-uno]

  And of course we all know that weight has nothing to do with top speed  ,(just acceleration, which is kinda fun in itself)  .  Peter

[Huzo]

No no, you're probably right!

Your username suggests you never want to upset anyone and that’s admirable, but what makes you so keen to agree...?...
See, here’s the thing..
Whilst I freely admit Beetle’s 1400 Griso would pull like a fifteen year old boy with a dog eared Penthouse, Mark’s torque monster still has to pull more REVS to go faster than a comparable well tuned Griso side by side and although the ‘14 will out torque the standard mill at it’s peak, that peak occurs at a lower rpm figure than the ‘12, and you can’t just install a taller ratio by changing sprocket/s, or a larger pinion/smaller crown wheel.
Am I in error..?
Come on guys, don’t be scared...(beetles don’t bite, much)

[beetle]

My 1200 was faster. I did have a 9000 RPM rev limit. The 1400 is limited to 8250.

124mph in 4th. 140 in 5th. Too scared to try 6th.

[Huzo]

My 1200 was faster. I did have a 9000 RPM rev limit. The 1400 is limited to 8250.

124mph in 4th. 140 in 5th. Too scared to try 6th.

That would have translated to 154 mph @ 8,250 if you had the torque on tap at those revs.
My point is.
Does the standard Griso power..(torque figure @ 9,000 rpm)x(9,000) = ?
Fall short of the 1400’s numbers
                                              (torque figure @ 8,250 rpm)x(8,250)= ?
If you could get a taller sixth gear ratio into the ‘14, you’d shit it in....

[jacksonracingcomau]

I’m musing about the claims of Beetle and some others here.
My Norge is doing 4,000 rpm at 120 kph. Does the Griso run the same ratio’s ? If it did, then 240 k’s needs 8,000 rpm, I’ve been up to 200 a few times and that’s (not surprisingly) 6,000 rpm.

Mathematically of course that is not just surprising but startling
Eyesight , instrument,  clutch or wheelspin ?

I use 1000rpm /  speed to work gearing out, is a constant, yours varies from 30kmph @4k to 33.3 kmph @6k

Not in the game here though, best I got was a clocked 135mph for Performance Bikes twins test  in 1987
Worse, I was beaten by another Guzzi at 142mph
Both ol pushrod ditch pumps, pre Daytona by quite a while

[Huzo]

Sorry mate I see your point.
That 200 kph is actually 180....(typo.. )It’s 1.5 times the 120 kph figure.
I have seen 200 though a few times on the 2VPC Norge so that must have been 4,000 x 200/120 = 6,600 rpm.
Anyyywaaayyy...
The guts of the point is, that even with the monster torque on tap from Beetle’s 1400 Griso, the rpm would not be available from the bigger mill, so without a re gearing option, the 1400 will be slower.
However, put a trailer load of shagged flat tappets on the back of both bikes and point them at a hill and the ‘14 will stroll away.

[beetle]

I’m musing about the claims of Beetle and some others here.

I didn't claim anything. Really. I was being facetious. The emoticons and "get my coat" comment should have been a dead giveaway.

Now Beetle’s tongue in cheek “claim” that his Griso is the fastest may (or may not) be true, but we are all bound by some inflexible rules.

Yes. Tongue-in-cheek. I really don't give a rat's arse how fast it goes.

It would not matter if you had 120 Newton metres of torque on hand and a calculated peak power of 90 kilowatts, the barrier will be that you will be bound by your engines ability to rev high enough.
I don’t know how much of the 1,400’s  drive train Beetle’s Griso uses, but without the ability to rev higher than a standard one, it’ll fall over it’s own massive internals as the revs rise.
At what rpm does the torque begin to taper off and where in the rev range is the peak power ?
What rpm does your 1400 do at 100 k’s Beetle ?

Same as yours. Pretty sure the gearbox ratios are the same. The Norge did have a slight change in 5th & 6th ratios in later boxes, but it will be within a bee's dick.

I'm not interested in increasing the rev limit. It's all about the torque, and those pistons are 34 grams heavier than the 1200's. The torque curve is pretty flat. Max torque is at 4600 and drops around 20% by 8000.

Regardless, top speed would be the same. Assuming I didn't end up with a rod up the chuff, the extra torque would help.

[Huzo]

Facetious...?
Pffftttt...!
As if.. 

[Murray]

Murray , I've wondered for years if VIN's meant much with Guzzi , are those 131 in sequence . Seem to remember a discussion about this , any thoughts on this .

 I still don't think most folks would consider the MGS as a true production motorbike , it was mostly a Ghezzi and Brian special . I'm still going with the Daytona at 145 MPH as the fastest production Guzzi , although the Griso in its latest form might have been a little quicker to 100 MPH . All guess work in the end , based on what constitutes a production model . I know that 1100 Sport that Rocker owned was capable of almost 140 .

 Come to think of it , the Ex-Chuckie Centauro that Stormtruck has now will carry Truck's 260 LBS at 130 MPH .
 Dusty

I'm not sure with other Guzzi's but with the MGS-01 yes in order normally each different model has its own vin however part of the VIN is the year of production country of origin. Ghezzi Brian called it a limited volume production bike as they considered it to be much more of a production bike than thier specials supposedly there would be up to 150 if they got enough orders but no more. Which is really only half of the total production of the Daytona RS.

My 1100 sport which has the carbs and exhaust although the motor is mostly stock (it got a mild port during rebuild a few years ago) given enough space and you needed plenty of it would get up to around redline in top gear at 230ish kph, typically I wasnt concentrating on the instruments too hard at this point. 190 would come up pretty quickly 210 ish would follow without too much time passing and the last 15-20kph would require lying flat on the tank with the throttle peged for kilometer after kilometer. I'll add we are also taking the speedo at its indication which is most likely not the most scientific process. In annectdotal testing it also seemed to be about the same speed as a stock Daytona 1000 A spec motor.

Fairly certain the griso etc had a bit shorter gearing even with the addional gear in the gearbox. Wouldn't it be nice if Guzzi decided to make intresting bikes again.

[bigbikerrick]

Interesting discussion, Folks! So it looks like the group's collective opinion places the MGS 01 on top, then the Daytona, followed by the 1100 sport,and then the Griso SE. 
Rick.

[beetle]

Wouldn't it be nice if Guzzi decided to make intresting bikes again.

Oh yes. Yes.

[Murray]

Interesting discussion, Folks! So it looks like the group's collective opinion places the MGS 01 on top, then the Daytona, followed by the 1100 sport,and then the Griso SE. 
Rick.

For the sake of accuracy there is actually three versions of the Daytona the 1000 the 1000 Racing (100 only not delivered to the USA) and the Daytona RS, the racing has the C kit motor with the older shape bodywork and the front end of the 1100 sport (6 way adjustable forks 320mm rotors) the RS has the body work of the 1100 sport and the wheels and suspension was shared with the sport 1100i (which setup is a vast improvment of the earlier stuff). There was also an sport 1100i corsa? can't exacty remeber the last 200 sport 1100i's carillo rods and termi cans were the main point of difference were they any faster? probablly not.

Somewhat of a refection of Guzzi's lot is the top three bikes are all based on a long defunct motor that was build as a stopgap in the late 80's to buy a bit of time for the orginal block until they came up with something better.

[mtiberio]

fastest implies top speed, quickest implies acceleration. Power without proper gearing is useless. Aerodynamics makes a big difference on top speed. There were/are partially faired Guzzis going quite fast (Fireman Bob) at Bonneville. 160's, 170's and maybe even one low 180 depending on class (I don't have rule book in front of me). Those were on 2 valve motors.

[Rough Edge racing]

 Around 7 years ago my 84 naked frame Cali 2 cafe  ran 117 mph at the one mile standing start LSR track in Ohio..Timed by digital equipment  not a bouncing speedo needle or non calibrated hand held equipment , lol...
 

[blu guzz]

Yamaha R6. 

[TN Mark]

Around 7 years ago my 84 naked frame Cali 2 cafe  ran 117 mph at the one mile standing start LSR track in Ohio..Timed by digital equipment  not a bouncing speedo needle or non calibrated hand held equipment , lol...
 

No better way to bring reality into a theoretical specifications race than with cold hard facts and legitimate results.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[Old Jock]

For the sake of accuracy there is actually three versions of the Daytona the 1000 the 1000 Racing (100 only not delivered to the USA) and the Daytona RS, the racing has the C kit motor with the older shape bodywork and the front end of the 1100 sport (6 way adjustable forks 320mm rotors) the RS has the body work of the 1100 sport and the wheels and suspension was shared with the sport 1100i (which setup is a vast improvment of the earlier stuff). There was also an sport 1100i corsa? can't exacty remeber the last 200 sport 1100i's carillo rods and termi cans were the main point of difference were they any faster? probablly not.

Somewhat of a refection of Guzzi's lot is the top three bikes are all based on a long defunct motor that was build as a stopgap in the late 80's to buy a bit of time for the orginal block until they came up with something better.

Murray where does the Dr John fit in, I think it was B kitted?



I also thought, but feel free to correct me, all the Non US/Singapore/Switzerland Daytona RS's were full C Kitted, the  US/Singapore/Switzerland Daytona RS had the same cams and spec as the Centauros.

[Murray]

Murray where does the Dr John fit in, I think it was B kitted?



I also thought, but feel free to correct me, all the Non US/Singapore/Switzerland Daytona RS's were full C Kitted, the  US/Singapore/Switzerland Daytona RS had the same cams and spec as the Centauros.

NFI never played with a Dr John version, re the RS thats what I understood too, thought the detune also affected the pistons however probably @ Pauls Daytona whould be in a far better place to answer we didn't get them here in Oz.

[bad Chad]

Around 7 years ago my 84 naked frame Cali 2 cafe  ran 117 mph at the one mile standing start LSR track in Ohio..Timed by digital equipment  not a bouncing speedo needle or non calibrated hand held equipment , lol...
 
[/quote

That’s believable.  But no California that ever came from the factory with the ability to hit 143mph!  Dual plug Breva motor or not, they don’t get out of the 120s.

[pressureangle]

A quick bit of research on the internet found the 1100 Sport at 143 mph and the Daytona at 145 mph.  The Norge and the Griso in the 135 mph range.

Mike

I'll say for nothing that my near-stock LeMans IV was notably faster, but not quicker, than my '97 1100 Sport-i in similar trim. I found that strange, although I have to admit that I've not spent any time tuning the top end fueling on the 1100.

[Rough Edge racing]

During the time I was land speed racing at the one mile track ,2013-2015 the fastest stock Japanese big bore sport bikes were  crowding 175 mph. But stock production in LSR means stock exhaust and air boxes the engine internals can be tuned beyond stock. Fastest production 2 cylinder bikes were the last Buell's with the Rotex engines, about 160 mph. At the 1.5 mile track in Maine some of the same bikes were 5 mph faster.
  My naked frame 650 Triumph racer with 55 rwhp , about 65 at the flywheel, ran consistent 133 mph at Maine.
 I believe a non faired stock Guzzi with 75 rwhp should be able to see 145 mph.

[pauldaytona]

has the body work of the 1100 sport and the wheels and suspension was shared with the sport 1100i (which setup is a vast improvment of the earlier stuff).

the daytona rs had a more expensive rear shock over the 1100 sporti/centauro. The rs has an aluminium housing the cheaper ones steel.


 The MGS01 was build 136 times. Murray you were co owner of an mgs01, still are?

Some parts on the MGS01 hint on a plan to build much more(road version), like the gastank, the mold for such a thing can't be paid from so little pieces. It is also te cheapest spare part. The MGS01 was not expensive for what you got.

I think the fastest tuned Guzzi is the Guzzila from Dynotec.

My Daytona does 240kmh in sixth gear at 9000rpm but with longer gearing it would be faster. No need for that the wind blows strong enough at 240. It reaches the 240 quick. Max power at 8000

[Idontwantapickle]

Your username suggests you never want to upset anyone and that’s admirable, but what makes you so keen to agree...?...

Come on guys, don’t be scared...(beetles don’t bite, much)

Huzo

My username is an ancient Welsh word that means "he who avoids brined cucumber". Especially if juxtaposed to motorcycling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfdwzwgirDQ

As to being agreeable, I'm pretty easy to get along with. But I have no need to comment that on that bike other than I think it's probably true. And Beetle gave me 50 bucks to say so. 

But as far as Beetle's tire shredder Griso goes I'd bet that it would show the tail light to just about any Guzzi with a reg plate. That much torque in that package is gonna get up and go! 80% of the torque peak at 8000 rpm? The only limitation is the human holding the bars. Not to say that it is the highest top speed, but the trip there will be AWESOME!

Hunter

P.S. Is it too cold to ride there yet?

P.P.S. I actually do like pickles.

[Huzo]

Huzo

My username is an ancient Welsh word that means "he who avoids brined cucumber". Especially if juxtaposed to motorcycling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfdwzwgirDQ

As to being agreeable, I'm pretty easy to get along with. But I have no need to comment that on that bike other than I think it's probably true. And Beetle gave me 50 bucks to say so. 

But as far as Beetle's tire shredder Griso goes I'd bet that it would show the tail light to just about any Guzzi with a reg plate. That much torque in that package is gonna get up and go! 80% of the torque peak at 8000 rpm? The only limitation is the human holding the bars. Not to say that it is the highest top speed, but the trip there will be AWESOME!

Hunter

P.S. Is it too cold to ride there yet?

P.P.S. I actually do like pickles.

Yep, never said otherwise..
But when the question is addressing which Guzzi is FASTER..?
It does not matter if you have twice the torque, if you can only rev to 8,250 and the bike next to you can rev to 9,000, then the 9,000 rpm bike will turn the rear wheel faster...
Beetle has conceded as much. He was being facetious and I made the mistake of not realising it.
Facetiousness just didn’t sound like him....

[oldbike54]

Yep, never said otherwise..
But when the question is addressing which Guzzi is FASTER..?
It does not matter if you have twice the torque, if you can only rev to 8,250 and the bike next to you can rev to 9,000, then the 9,000 rpm bike will turn the rear wheel faster...
Beetle has conceded as much. He was being facetious and I made the mistake of not realising it.
Facetiousness just didn’t sound like him....

 So my friend's CB 360 that revs to 9,200 RPM's is faster than my Bassa ? Who knew .

 Dusty

[Huzo]

So my friend's CB 360 that revs to 9,200 RPM's is faster than my Bassa ? Who knew .

 Dusty

Nice try Dusty but you fired a little early.
I said...
If the 9,000 rpm bike CAN pull the revs then it WILL be faster because of the mechanical connection to the rear wheel. If it does not have the TORQUE available then the lower revving higher torque ‘14 will win.
Power is TORQUE x RPM and it’s the multiple of the two that gives POWER.
By the time the 1200 hits 8250 rpm side by side with the 1400 the race is still even, but the 1400 has hit it’s rev limit so cannot continue to accelerate, IF the 1200 has enough torque to increase the revs by a bit more then it will slightly pull away..
Power is an often quoted and just as often misunderstood term.
Power is and always was an expression of the RATE of DOING WORK.

[oldbike54]

Nice try Dusty but you fired a little early.
I said...
If the 9,000 rpm bike CAN pull the revs then it WILL be faster because of the mechanical connection to the rear wheel. If it does not have the TORQUE available then the lower revving higher torque ‘14 will win.
Power is TORQUE x RPM and it’s the multiple of the two that gives POWER.
By the time the 1200 hits 8250 rpm side by side with the 1400 the race is still even, but the 1400 has hit it’s rev limit so cannot continue to accelerate, IF the 1200 has enough torque to increase the revs by a bit more then it will slightly pull away..
Power is an often quoted and just as often misunderstood term.
Power is and always was an expression of the RATE of DOING WORK.

 Well duh .

 Dusty

[Huzo]

Huzo

My username is an ancient Welsh word that means "he who avoids brined cucumber". Especially if juxtaposed to motorcycling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfdwzwgirDQ
P.S. Is it too cold to ride there yet?
P.P.S. I actually do like pickles.

I took the bevelbox off my V85 down to Geelong on Friday.
I was on my Norge and it was 9 degrees C.
The cold air was just what my Norge wanted and being suitably dressed it was lovely.