Whats the fastest/most powerful Guzzi?

[Huzo]

Well duh .

 Dusty

There’s something that I don’t always pick up on over on my side of the Pacific.
Your humour is different.

[oldbike54]

There’s something that I don’t always pick up on over on my side of the Pacific.
Your humour is different.

 Meh , no one here gets me either .

 Dusty

[wirespokes]

Your humour is different.

Nah - your humor is different.

And it's so finely honed, too!

[rschrum]

147 indicated, 144 GPS, tucked in behind the speed screen. Didn't notice where the tach was but hadn't hit the limiter yet. There was a little more left. Griso. 

[Bobic69]

147 indicated, 144 GPS, tucked in behind the speed screen. Didn't notice where the tach was but hadn't hit the limiter yet. There was a little more left. Griso.

Of course that was on the track, right?

[oldbike54]

Of course that was on the track, right?

 Asked an Ozzie who now lives in Texas why he moved here , "Because you can drive fast here mate" 

 Dusty

[Tony F]

Here is a historic data point for you.

In 1985 I ran a friend's quite new Mark 3 Le Mans in a Bears speed trial. It was timed both ways over a flying quarter. Average speed 130.65 mph. I was 3rd on the day, first place went to another friend on his BMW K100RS at around 135mph. 2nd place was a very highly tuned Triumph with an average speed of about 0.25mph higher than the LM. A good fart would have done it!

I'm pretty sure it was maxxed out, the engine was quiet, there was just the wind noise. I had used my first run to figure out how to launch it and fit myself in behind the screen. And to crib an extra bit of run up at the starting end because that end was a bit shorter.

Tony

[Rough Edge racing]

Nice try Dusty but you fired a little early.
I said...
If the 9,000 rpm bike CAN pull the revs then it WILL be faster because of the mechanical connection to the rear wheel. If it does not have the TORQUE available then the lower revving higher torque ‘14 will win.
Power is TORQUE x RPM and it’s the multiple of the two that gives POWER.
By the time the 1200 hits 8250 rpm side by side with the 1400 the race is still even, but the 1400 has hit it’s rev limit so cannot continue to accelerate, IF the 1200 has enough torque to increase the revs by a bit more then it will slightly pull away..
Power is an often quoted and just as often misunderstood term.
Power is and always was an expression of the RATE of DOING WORK.

I understand the mechanical thing but the engine may have other rpm requirements . My LSR 650 Triumph makes record speed at a calculated 6950 rpm, much lower than the other Triumphs. For my bike, it's the rpm representing the sum of the highest average sum of torque and HP.

[PeteS]

Here is a historic data point for you.

In 1985 I ran a friend's quite new Mark 3 Le Mans in a Bears speed trial. It was timed both ways over a flying quarter. Average speed 130.65 mph. I was 3rd on the day, first place went to another friend on his BMW K100RS at around 135mph. 2nd place was a very highly tuned Triumph with an average speed of about 0.25mph higher than the LM. A good fart would have done it!

I'm pretty sure it was maxxed out, the engine was quiet, there was just the wind noise. I had used my first run to figure out how to launch it and fit myself in behind the screen. And to crib an extra bit of run up at the starting end because that end was a bit shorter.

Tony

At least two period motorcycle magazines back in the '70s measured the top speed of the 850 LeMans at a bit over 130 mph which is what Guzzi claimed. This with a 7200 redline and 7:33 gears. I had mine maxed out but with the Veglia swinging back and forth between 100 and 150 it was only a guess. If the tach was accurate then it did pull 7200 no problem. Later when Manfred Hecht flowed the heads and put in stronger springs it would pull 8000 rpms with ease and I have seen 8300 before backing off. This with 7:33 gears but a close ratio gearbox which has a lower top end. Not sure it would even attain 130 with that gearbox but it did and continues to pull redline even 30 years and many track days after the rebuild.

Pete

[Idontwantapickle]

I took the bevelbox off my V85 down to Geelong on Friday.
I was on my Norge and it was 9 degrees C.
The cold air was just what my Norge wanted and being suitably dressed it was lovely.

A Norge loves a cool day! I might ride mine today even though it's over 80 (27C). I would normally ride the LeMans but it is evidently in cahoots with your new bike as the rear drive is leaking!
Happy Motoring!

[pressureangle]

During the time I was land speed racing at the one mile track ,2013-2015 the fastest stock Japanese big bore sport bikes were  crowding 175 mph. But stock production in LSR means stock exhaust and air boxes the engine internals can be tuned beyond stock. Fastest production 2 cylinder bikes were the last Buell's with the Rotex engines, about 160 mph. At the 1.5 mile track in Maine some of the same bikes were 5 mph faster.
  My naked frame 650 Triumph racer with 55 rwhp , about 65 at the flywheel, ran consistent 133 mph at Maine.
 I believe a non faired stock Guzzi with 75 rwhp should be able to see 145 mph.

This is all very realistic compared to what I've seen. Racing H-D 883 Sportsters, ~62rwhp netted ~130mph. The best of them at ~65rwhp were ~140mph.

[oldbike54]

n you have the V8 powered Curtiss LSR motorbike that ran 136 with an engine rated at 40 HP AT 1,800 RPM's . Go Huzo , what kind of gearing was he running to go that fast at such a low engine speed ?

 Dusty

[John A]

https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/mandello-meteor/

This one is fast,  nice bike

[80CX100]

https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/mandello-meteor/

This one is fast,  nice bike

That was an excellent read,

tks for sharing

Kelly

[Moparnut72]

I enjoyed it too.
kk

[John A]

Some of my parts went 182 mph, makes me smile...

[Huzo]

n you have the V8 powered Curtiss LSR motorbike that ran 136 with an engine rated at 40 HP AT 1,800 RPM's . Go Huzo , what kind of gearing was he running to go that fast at such a low engine speed ?

 Dusty

Thanks for the invitation Dusty, I accept.
I’d need to know the diameter of the driving wheel would I not..?
One will need to calculate the RPM of the rear wheel @ that speed and see how many times it goes into 1,800.
It won’t be a hell of a long way short of 1:1
But feel free to break out your abacii and have a crack...

[Rough Edge racing]

The Curtiss bike was only 40 hp but it was 270 cubic inches. Crude as it was,it must have a bit of torque...
  We can argue if it's HP or torque that moves the bike....Example, On a Superflow dyno,my 650 Triumph racer makes 55 rwhp between 7000-7150 rpm. Peak torque is 46 ft lbs at 5100 rpm. At 6900-7000 rpm the engine still has 40 ft lbs of torque...Best speed as mentioned is when geared not to exceed 6900 rpm...Dyno power read outs may differ a bit than track or road performance but it's a valid example...
 

[Huzo]

The Curtiss bike was only 40 hp but it was 270 cubic inches. Crude as it was,it must have a bit of torque...
  We can argue if it's HP or torque that moves the bike....Example, On a Superflow dyno,my 650 Triumph racer makes 55 rwhp between 7000-7150 rpm. Peak torque is 46 ft lbs at 5100 rpm. At 6900-7000 rpm the engine still has 40 ft lbs of torque...Best speed as mentioned is when geared not to exceed 6900 rpm...Dyno power read outs may differ a bit than track or road performance but it's a valid example...
 

Torque turns the wheel.
Power is a numerical figure assigned to the rate at which the work was done to move the mass...(how many times..)

[PeteS]

Imagine how much faster his 40hp could have taken him if his bike looked like this.





Instead of this.





Pete

[12SCraig]

I took the bevelbox off my V85 down to Geelong on Friday.
I was on my Norge and it was 9 degrees C.
The cold air was just what my Norge wanted and being suitably dressed it was lovely.

Friday was a cold and bleak day.
Referring to Geelong as Bleak is kind of  being kind (their football team is a another mater entirely).
( i am entitled to slag the place, since i worked there or lived nearby for 37 years )
I presume you were taking the Bevelbox to PS the Guzzi dealer in these parts, how did things transpire?

[Rough Edge racing]

Torque turns the wheel.
Power is a numerical figure assigned to the rate at which the work was done to move the mass...(how many times..)

Yes, so torque is the only real number. Back to the example, the Curtiss bike and my bike ran about the same speed, but Curtiss was on a hard packed sand that should have a bit more drag. Both are naked frame but mine is lower, more narrow and with low clip ones ,the rider on mine is less exposed to airflow. Assuming the Curtiss bike speed was timed accurately, the quoted engine  rpm accurate, his engine might have made 60 ft lbs  torque at the rpm required for 136 mph.

[Huzo]

I presume you were taking the Bevelbox to PS the Guzzi dealer in these parts, how did things transpire?

They’ve got a couple more days then I’ll tell them to get rooted.
Will probably do it myself.

[Huzo]

n you have the V8 powered Curtiss LSR motorbike that ran 136 with an engine rated at 40 HP AT 1,800 RPM's . Go Huzo , what kind of gearing was he running to go that fast at such a low engine speed ?

 Dusty

I know from recent work, that the rear wheel of Barry’s R1100S is doing about 1000 rpm at 100 kph.
136 mph is 218 kph, so at that revs a wheel of same size is doing about 2,000 rpm.
If the engine is @ 1,800 rpm
and the wheel is @ 2,000 rpm
Then the ratio is about 1:1
That’s without doing any measurements..

[Huzo]

The Curtiss bike was only 40 hp but it was 270 cubic inches. Crude as it was,it must have a bit of torque...
  We can argue if it's HP or torque that moves the bike....Example, On a Superflow dyno,my 650 Triumph racer makes 55 rwhp between 7000-7150 rpm. Peak torque is 46 ft lbs at 5100 rpm. At 6900-7000 rpm the engine still has 40 ft lbs of torque...Best speed as mentioned is when geared not to exceed 6900 rpm...Dyno power read outs may differ a bit than track or road performance but it's a valid example...
 

Power= torque x rpm
So.       40     = torque x 1800
Therefore
Torque = 40/1800 x 3300 = 73 foot pounds or 99 Nm...That’s my guess

[oldbike54]

 The aircraft V8 in the Curtiss LSR bike was built when power output wasn't really even measured , the figures were based on displacement . Was up late , didn't get much sleep , but once the brain clears a bit we can do the math and figure the torque numbers for that engine if we believe it was making 40 HP at 1,800 RPM's . Guessing it was Diesel like , probably 100 lbs feet at that engine speed .

 Oh , Huzo , you are probably about right at that 1:1 figure

 

 Dusty

[Rough Edge racing]

The aircraft V8 in the Curtiss LSR bike was built when power output wasn't really even measured , the figures were based on displacement . Was up late , didn't get much sleep , but once the brain clears a bit we can do the math and figure the torque numbers for that engine if we believe it was making 40 HP at 1,800 RPM's . Guessing it was Diesel like , probably 100 lbs feet at that engine speed .

 Oh , Huzo , you are probably about right at that 1:1 figure

 
  ..
 Dusty

For use in aircraft ,maximum rpms held to a level that gave some sort of reliability in that era. Used a sprint racing engine in bike,the rpm may have been 2100 for example.You really need the actual gear ratio and tire diameter. But I think ,based on my experience,60-70 ft lbs would do the job

[Moparnut72]

I officiate at boat time trials. We have a guy that has132 records including the overall top speed for an outboard, V8 2 stroke Evinrude. He is very intune with  atmospheric conditions and trys to run when everything is conducive to the best equipment performance. Google Bob Wartinger if interested. A really nice guy.
kk

[oldbike54]

For use in aircraft ,maximum rpms held to a level that gave some sort of reliability in that era. Used a sprint racing engine in bike,the rpm may have been 2100 for example.You really need the actual gear ratio and tire diameter. But I think ,based on my experience,60-70 ft lbs would do the job

 Doing the math shows the Curtiss V8 making 116 lbs ft of torque at the 1800 RPM figure used to derive the 40 HP figure .

 Dusty
 

[beetle]

116? Nice!