Author Topic: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll  (Read 52979 times)

canuguzzi

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #150 on: March 02, 2016, 11:46:05 AM »
Changing fuses to circuit breakers isn't a good idea for this application. bwdik

 :popcorn:
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 11:51:19 AM by Norge Pilot »

Offline SeanF

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #151 on: March 02, 2016, 11:47:19 AM »
I used the existing wiring when I installed the Mosfet unit this weekend.
I ran a 10ga wire from the VR to the two output wires in the harness. Same on the negative side
This method reuses the bike's original fuse
All is well with steady voltage of 14.2 volts

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Offline drlapo

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #152 on: March 02, 2016, 11:48:59 AM »
If you wire the VR directly to the battery don't forget to also connect the stock wire harness red and black wires to the battery to power bike's systems

Offline Bravo Sierra

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #153 on: March 02, 2016, 04:58:30 PM »
Decided to see what my 2013 V7 Special was doing, DVM reads ~15.2 across the entire RPM range. Bike was ridden enough in the lat few days that the battery should be charged. This was a new battery last spring.  :sad:

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #153 on: March 02, 2016, 04:58:30 PM »

Online Kev m

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #154 on: March 02, 2016, 05:25:58 PM »
I really wish I knew if these bikes left the factory that way or if it was something that happened over time with corrosion on grounds or just internal wear/failure of the RR.
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Offline rbm

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #155 on: March 02, 2016, 05:35:36 PM »
Electronics don't wear out as does mechanics.  Corrosion on connections would lower the voltage at the battery under operation so that's not a contributing factor.  I suspect the R/R are manufactured and shipped that way.

I'd be interested to see if the circuit card can be accessed and components changed to alter the output voltage.  Any pictures of the rear of the OEM regulator available?
- Robert

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1987 BMW K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #156 on: March 02, 2016, 06:03:27 PM »
Electronics don't wear out as does mechanics.  Corrosion on connections would lower the voltage at the battery under operation so that's not a contributing factor.  I suspect the R/R are manufactured and shipped that way.

I'd be interested to see if the circuit card can be accessed and components changed to alter the output voltage.  Any pictures of the rear of the OEM regulator available?

They may not wear out per se, but certainly you see heat and load related failures.

As for resistance, are you saying that increased resistance on the ground circuit would cause a DECREASE in output voltage???

I'll be happy to take pics of my regulator once I get around to removing it, maybe this weekend.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 06:04:10 PM by Kev m »
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Offline rbm

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #157 on: March 02, 2016, 06:16:17 PM »
Corrosion on positive lead contact will introduce resistance to current flow.  This would result in a voltage dropped across it (and great heat that could melt the plastic).  There will be a drop in voltage if  measured relative to ground.  That means the voltage at the regulator output would be greater than at the battery.  What will not happen is for the voltage at the battery to be greater than the voltage at the regulator output as a result of corrosion.
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Offline drlapo

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #158 on: March 02, 2016, 08:13:41 PM »
Not needed.  The power loops back from the battery connection (the big red one).
Isn't that what I said? Maybe I have to work on my communication skills

Offline SeanF

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #159 on: March 02, 2016, 10:35:58 PM »
I'll be replacing the Reg/Rec in my '14 v7 Special tonight with a FH020AA, using the existing wiring.
I am seeing 15.2v at the battery terminals at 3k+ rpm.
Will post results.

14.3 volts at 3k rpm. Happy day.

Offline jas67

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #160 on: March 03, 2016, 05:54:03 AM »
I'd be interested to see if the circuit card can be accessed and components changed to alter the output voltage.  Any pictures of the rear of the OEM regulator available?

I would bet that they are potted inside the housing as is standard for these types of modules, and thus, nothing is accessible.
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Offline pikipiki

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #161 on: March 03, 2016, 07:24:33 AM »
Corrosion on positive lead contact will introduce resistance to current flow.  This would result in a voltage dropped across it (and great heat that could melt the plastic).  There will be a drop in voltage if  measured relative to ground.  That means the voltage at the regulator output would be greater than at the battery.  What will not happen is for the voltage at the battery to be greater than the voltage at the regulator output as a result of corrosion.
I agree

Another thought: actually a suitable resistor on the +ve out from the R/R would drop the voltage BUT I think that would put strain on the stator and also lower the watts deliverer to the bikes electical system. So I dont think thats a good idea? but am i sure? no.

It does seem that the body of the OEM R/R does not give a good ground. If there was a bad earth to the R/R what would happen? I think the result would be the same as a bad +ve? :embarrassed:

Offline vstevens

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #162 on: March 03, 2016, 09:21:35 AM »
Hate to
 :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu
(I was looking for a good excuse to use that emoticon)

I think my voltage regulator is also overcharging.  I did vote on the poll but I want a redo.  i voted its just fine... but it is now showing signs it isn't. 

A few months ago, I complained about some electrical 'niggles', the bike would just die... everything die... when riding.   After sharing this on the forum and receiving lots of suggestions, I went to work checking as many electrical connections as I could find.  Turns out the cable connecting to the battery terminal under the red rubber boot was kinked at an angle with the securing bolt only touching the top lip of the cable connector.  I fugure that everytime the bike hit a bad bump the battery cable temporarily was jostled and lost connection.  That was an easy fix... and an indication of poor setup by the original dealer (not the dealer I bought it from... they got it from another dealer). 

Well now, I checked the voltages across the battery terminals and charging voltage is above 15 volts.  Don't know how much cause the meter I have (a cheapee) only goes to 15 volts - I need to buy a decent multimeter, I know.   :embarrassed:

I wonder if the dealer might put in for a warranty claim.... or if its worth the time and trouble if the replacement is the same R/R.  AND, would replacing the r/r void the current warranty?  Perhaps those with warranty should wait until it expires?  Just some thoughts from a non-electrician.

« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 09:23:14 AM by vstevens »

canuguzzi

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #163 on: March 03, 2016, 10:28:40 AM »
A warranty, or lack thereof is not a good reason to leave a defect or broken part in place. If something is covered by a warranty, that doesn't mean you must get it repaired or replaced under warranty nor that you should wait for the fix to be done under warranty.

If something needs to be fixed or replaced, best to do it and worry about warranty as a secondary consideration, depending on what it is. It is always your responsibility to mitigate damages if possible and practical.

You might replace a battery right away because you need one and can't really wait or get to a place that sells that brand. If the shop is close by, why not use the warranty if it applies? Common sense comes into play.

Pay a $1000 out of pocket or use the warranty? It's only money but it is your money, no one else's.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 11:50:13 AM by Norge Pilot »

Offline jas67

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #164 on: March 03, 2016, 11:51:45 AM »
I agree

Another thought: actually a suitable resistor on the +ve out from the R/R would drop the voltage BUT I think that would put strain on the stator and also lower the watts deliverer to the bikes electical system. So I dont think thats a good idea? but am i sure? no.

It does seem that the body of the OEM R/R does not give a good ground. If there was a bad earth to the R/R what would happen? I think the result would be the same as a bad +ve? :embarrassed:

A resister on the output of the R/R would not work at all, as it would still work to achieve the same voltage at the reference terminal.   A resister divider on the reference terminal could be used to raise the output voltage, but, I'm not sure of a clean way to reduce it.

The best thing is to just replace the VR with one that does the job properly.

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Offline pikipiki

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #165 on: March 03, 2016, 12:06:37 PM »
Glad I checked my wiring:






screen shot windows 7








Online Muzz

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #166 on: March 03, 2016, 02:04:54 PM »
So I got back from my ride on the Breva yesterday (but of course I had to stop it to use the key to lift the seat) and checked the voltages on my rather old battery.

The voltage was now sitting at 13.05, up from the 12.5 obtained after a 24 hour rest. Started it and ran for a few minutes at about 2700 RPM. Voltage remained stable at around 13.7 volts. Thought it might have been slightly higher but as the charging system has never given any problems I am not too worried.

A lot lower than the 15+ volts that you guys are getting.
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Offline pikipiki

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #167 on: March 03, 2016, 02:20:30 PM »
So I got back from my ride on the Breva yesterday (but of course I had to stop it to use the key to lift the seat) and checked the voltages on my rather old battery.

The voltage was now sitting at 13.05, up from the 12.5 obtained after a 24 hour rest. Started it and ran for a few minutes at about 2700 RPM. Voltage remained stable at around 13.7 volts. Thought it might have been slightly higher but as the charging system has never given any problems I am not too worried.

A lot lower than the 15+ volts that you guys are getting.

You wont get over 13.7 volts when the engine is off. Your battery should slowly deplete from 13.7 to 12.7 but 12.5 is likely fine.

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #168 on: March 03, 2016, 02:26:33 PM »
13.7 with the engine running, 13.05 at rest.

Thought it might have hit 14 but I had used the starter a couple of minutes before.
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canuguzzi

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #169 on: March 03, 2016, 02:37:28 PM »
During all the tests some are doing, are you just running the engines with the bike sitting for minutes at a time at 2500 rpms and higher?

I could be wrong but if you run  the engine at a few thousand RPMS for say 2-4 minutes, bike stationary, that seems like a long time to do something like that.

Seems like it would be better or just easier to connect a voltmeter to the battery and tape the thing to a handlebar or tank and ride it.

No doubt, someone will correct this.

Offline pikipiki

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #170 on: March 03, 2016, 03:01:01 PM »
During all the tests some are doing, are you just running the engines with the bike sitting for minutes at a time at 2500 rpms and higher?

I could be wrong but if you run  the engine at a few thousand RPMS for say 2-4 minutes, bike stationary, that seems like a long time to do something like that.

Seems like it would be better or just easier to connect a voltmeter to the battery and tape the thing to a handlebar or tank and ride it.

No doubt, someone will correct this.

I measured cold at tickover, raise revs for a second or so to 3k and check. Go where I'd be going, come back and checked again same way.

Offline drlapo

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #171 on: March 03, 2016, 04:31:39 PM »
Pikipiki's wire damage is scary and its on the alternator side?
Would this indicate an excessive draw/demand from the VR?

Offline pocphil

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #172 on: March 03, 2016, 04:55:56 PM »
Ok, checked 4 bikes today.
2012 V7 Classic 21,000 miles:  Idle 12.75  Revving 14.60
2013 V7 Special 1200 miles:   Idle 13.45  Revving 14.72
2013 V7 Racer 4900 miles: (Rexxer Maps) Idle 12.65  Revving 14.29
2015 V7 Stone Mk2 240 miles: Idle 12.80 Revving 14.20

All testing done with a harbor freight multi meter that was free with a coupon.

So far I haven't found a hot one, but I'm gonna be keeping my eyes open and test everyone that comes through here.

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Offline rbm

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #173 on: March 03, 2016, 05:17:19 PM »
A resister on the output of the R/R would not work at all, as it would still work to achieve the same voltage at the reference terminal.   A resister divider on the reference terminal could be used to raise the output voltage, but, I'm not sure of a clean way to reduce it.

The best thing is to just replace the VR with one that does the job properly.
Agreed.  The resistor would not work well because the amount of voltage it dropped would be proportional to the current being drawn, which would vary dependant on the load.  The resistor would have to be sized to the power it dissipates which is almost equal to the output of the alternator, around 300W.  Have you seen the size of a 300W resistor?


Hmm, Pikipiki's regulator looks to be potted.  Too bad; can't access the electronics to see if the output is adjustable.  The only solution is replacing the unit with one that works.  The burnt wire is a result of poor conductivity due to a bad crimp connection, not due to excessive current draw.  If you replace the regulator, pull the contacts from the alternator connector and solder the crimps.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 05:23:06 PM by rbm »
- Robert

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #174 on: March 03, 2016, 05:54:54 PM »
Ok, checked 4 bikes today.
2012 V7 Classic 21,000 miles:  Idle 12.75  Revving 14.60
2013 V7 Special 1200 miles:   Idle 13.45  Revving 14.72
2013 V7 Racer 4900 miles: (Rexxer Maps) Idle 12.65  Revving 14.29
2015 V7 Stone Mk2 240 miles: Idle 12.80 Revving 14.20

All testing done with a harbor freight multi meter that was free with a coupon.

So far I haven't found a hot one, but I'm gonna be keeping my eyes open and test everyone that comes through here.

THANKS for testing and posting!  :thumb:

No pattern emerging.

Which suggests it's not just a bad batch of RRs, but at the same time also suggests the OEM unit isn't necessarily bad.

Hmmmm.


Edit - how about mileage?

Do most of the failed ones have more miles on them? (I realize one of Jay's that tested bad is still pretty new).
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 05:56:54 PM by Kev m »
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Offline Zinfan

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #175 on: March 03, 2016, 06:03:10 PM »
I believe my 13 Stone had around 6k miles when I changed it out.  Definitely less than 10k.

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #176 on: March 03, 2016, 06:20:08 PM »
Ok, checked 4 bikes today.
2012 V7 Classic 21,000 miles:  Idle 12.75  Revving 14.60
2013 V7 Special 1200 miles:   Idle 13.45  Revving 14.72
2013 V7 Racer 4900 miles: (Rexxer Maps) Idle 12.65  Revving 14.29
2015 V7 Stone Mk2 240 miles: Idle 12.80 Revving 14.20

All testing done with a harbor freight multi meter that was free with a coupon.

So far I haven't found a hot one, but I'm gonna be keeping my eyes open and test everyone that comes through here.



I used one of them to check my TPS on the old EV last year. radio shack good one said .514 the free one said .650 or so. it went into the recycle bin. just saying!
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Offline jas67

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #177 on: March 03, 2016, 06:42:00 PM »
Do most of the failed ones have more miles on them? (I realize one of Jay's that tested bad is still pretty new).

My 2014 V7S has just over 1,500 miles, and tested at 15.50 V.

My 2013 V7R has about 9,000 miles, and tested at 15.30 V.
2017 V7III Special
1977 Le Mans
1974 Eldorado
2017 Triumph Thruxton R
2013 Ducati Monster 796, 2013 848 Evo Corse SE, 1974 750GT, 1970 Mk3d Desmo, 1966 Monza 250
2007 Vespa GTS250
2016 BMW R1200RS, 80 R100S, 76 R90S ,73 R75/5
76 Honda CB400F, 67 305 Super Hawk, 68 CL175

Offline pikipiki

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #178 on: March 03, 2016, 11:05:26 PM »

I'd be interested to see if the circuit card can be accessed and components changed to alter the output voltage.  Any pictures of the rear of the OEM regulator available?

The components are sealed in what seems to be a kind of rubber.
If you had time you could pick it out, it would be a destructive exercise and would take a while.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 11:10:29 PM by pikipiki »

Offline pikipiki

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Re: 2013 - 2015 V7 over voltage problem & poll
« Reply #179 on: March 04, 2016, 12:28:39 AM »
Agreed.  The resistor would not work well because the amount of voltage it dropped would be proportional to the current being drawn, which would vary dependant on the load.  The resistor would have to be sized to the power it dissipates which is almost equal to the output of the alternator, around 300W.  Have you seen the size of a 300W resistor?


Hmm, Pikipiki's regulator looks to be potted.  Too bad; can't access the electronics to see if the output is adjustable.  The only solution is replacing the unit with one that works.  The burnt wire is a result of poor conductivity due to a bad crimp connection, not due to excessive current draw.  If you replace the regulator, pull the contacts from the alternator connector and solder the crimps.

The wire damage does not relate to the r/r its a badly crimped wire as you said, I think my r/r is jus normal high im going to check it propper when I get wires fixed.    wires my bikes 8 years old so im more likely to have that kind of issue than the low milage bought new guys.

A resistor on the output is a poor solution because of what you say it means the voltage the bike gets varies dependent on current draw but such a resistor would only be around 5-10w. I had such a resistor on my input in the form of a badly crimped wire. had that bad crimp been on the output from the r/r I have done a voltage check on the output and got around 14.6 v and though everything is perfect.

The main draws on the electrical system dont vary by more than 100% (think) so a resistor could drop between 0.2 and 0.4v depending on other loads.

assuming battery is ok and not going to guzzle all the charge because confusing wierdness might happen if the system is overloaded:
15v-15.4v working as designed and sub optimal
15.4 up its broken.
varying voltages (more than 0.5v) something is wrong
under 15v on an OEM r/r check wiring.

I think with perfect wiring and a good battery these r/r will all deliver just over 15v with lights on or off and at any rpm over about 1500. Dirty and frayed crimps and worn out switches are not uncommon, I think the slightly high output of the r/r is designed in as it was the result of cheap off the shelf resistor size and it added in a little tollerance for such as bad connections (the other cheap option being near 14v I looked at some r/r projects and they say use this diode get 13.5v use this 15v in between would be custom component or more circui I guess).
halving battery life from about 6years to 3 probably wasnt considered as a big deal when a couple of bucks could be saved.

ps: electrics confuses my head. I understand one bit but by then I forget another, then I remember what I had worked out but forget the reason.
Its all so counter intuitive. Thanks for helping me along.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 01:14:41 AM by pikipiki »


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Harper's Moto Guzzi. Where we still answer the phone, use the highest quality parts, and also do Transmission, rear drive, and carb rebuilds fast. Call us at 816.697.3411 and get your problems resolved.
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Advertise Here